Inner Conflict

[sassykitten]

I read up, and if this has already been asked, I missed it.

Part of the reason that I was so very stunned when I realized that I am a sub, is because in my normal life I am a very dominant person. I must control every aspect of my life. If ever someone challenges that control, there would be hell to pay. I am wholly unwilling to relinquish that control to anybody, ever.

Yet, I recently discovered that I have a deep longing to give myself completely to someone, to totally submit and relinquish that control. I feel I want that control to permeate all corners of my life to at least some degree. But I want to be able to do this without having to give up my dominant role in the world.

Are there others who seem to have this inner conflict? How do you reconcile the two vastly different sides of yourself? Is it possible to retain that side of yourself, and still be completely His (when you find your Dom)?

Another question. I am currently in a relationship that is developing, we have not yet been intimate beyond what can be accomplished over the internet. He seems willing to test the waters of this with me, but I have concerns. I'm worried that, because He is not Dom by nature that He will never truly be able to fulfill that role the way I so need him to.

[fantassy]

There are a number of us with this conflict between dominant in everyday life but submissive in some aspect of the private life. For some, it means submissive to just one person, for others it means submissive only in the bedroom. The difficult part for me is making the change in mindset. It is hard to just switch. One interesting post I read mentioned that a Dom had assigned his sub some small tasks to do on thei way home from work. (like remove all underwear, etc.) Thus by the time she arrived home, she was already in a submissive state of mind. Personally, I find submission a very relaxing contrast to the way I have/love to be totally on/in charge most of my day.

fantassy

[sassykitten]

I'm starting to realize that my submissive desires may very well stem from a need to break from the tiring task of always being in control of the rest of my life.
My head is still spinning from all the self-discoveries I've made recently.

[Ozme52]

For those who need the relief from everyday life, it's no different than taking a vacation. It's relaxing and enjoyable to change up the routine. So a lot of dominant personalities find themselves longing for submission in their private lives.

Nothing wrong with that.


Another question. I am currently in a relationship that is developing, we have not yet been intimate beyond what can be accomplished over the internet. He seems willing to test the waters of this with me, but I have concerns. I'm worried that, because He is not Dom by nature that He will never truly be able to fulfill that role the way I so need him to.

I will say that if you desire to give yourself to a dominant, then anything less will leave you feeling unfulfilled. If your potential partner isn't interested in the lifestyle... or worse, isn't even a particularly dominant personality, you will always yearn for more and will ultimately be unhappy. (Unless you can establish an open relationship that will allow you to further explore your submissive nature.)

[jeanne]

How do you reconcile the two vastly different sides of yourself? Is it possible to retain that side of yourself, and still be completely His (when you find your Dom)?


I, too, can be quite a control freak. Submission has helped me with that so much! I'm learning when/what to let go and getting much better at drawing boundaries in my every day life - when someone tries to make their problem into my problem, I just don't get pulled into it! My confidence in myself has gone up immensely, but not in an obnoxious, "I know best" way, just in a quiet sureness of who I am, what I'm capable of and what my true daily responsibilities in work and life really are. I'm just more relaxed on a daily basis in my work and all my relationships: friends, family, coworkers, etc - not tense or stressed out all the time. It's really nice, plus friends and family are actually beginning to notice!

How do I go from the everyday me to the submissive me? Permeating my day is the knowledge that I belong to my husband (to an extent that I don't think he even realizes completely) so when I come home, making the switch isn't terribly difficult. If I have a block (work problem, etc) in my mind, I do something mindless, like wash dishes, and by the time I'm done the problem has been put away. Taking a nice hot bath or going to work out at the gym helps too!

[gagged_Louise]

To some people who may not be "instinctive leaders" it still becomes second nature to be the one who is in charge, who decrees, more or less, "this is how we do it", set up plans etc. They may not even have a high-status job as their scene, it's just the same with a working woman who's also a wife - she's suppsosed to take charge of cleaning, driving the kids, raising them to some extent, caring for family relations, birthdays etc, so she may develop a streak of "I'm in charge here" without really knwing it.

And other people - the kids too, if we're talking the home arena here, just using that example - then, feel they have to contest her or protect themselves a little, because her claims become too obvious (and too hard to bear for others) plus they may be backed up by shortcuts to nail it home like "Okay, i own this house/I'm your mom!/Would you do it like this at work? then what would your boss say?" The control freak, or the guy who needs to know everything is going by the rüles, vcan be a very hard person to live with (and if those feelings just drift into the s/m relation, then it might not be very good)

Or in the military, many officers are not the kind of shouting, red-face type we recognize as "type A Military Men" but still they have a powerful sense of being in charge, and that may rub off to other areas of life. Psychologists do not often talk about these kind of roles, but I read a brilliant, and unexpectedly funny and sharp book, Excess Baggage by the psychologist Judith Sills; she manages to bring out the cost of the attitudes we keep up and that have grown out of, precisely, our strong points. She also manages to discuss this seriously but with a sense of fun, observation and an eye to the potential for change (some psychologists sound like your trouble is always heavily predetermined, "it's rooted in your childhood" don't they?)

She doesn't discuss BDSM of course, but she does explore personal dominance and feelings of inadequacy and unhappy submission, of fear of moving on. One point she makes is that you can't really love someone who is consciously perfect, who exudes "I'm perfect, I'm right and I know it" maybe you can admire that person because he/she really is wonderful and gifted, but it's hard to love someone who doesn't show vulnerability, maybe even who doesn't have weaknesses.

I'd hazard this way of showing vulnerability and need for help is dramatrized in BDSM, it becomes part of both the submissive and the Dominant role, and that's part of the pull this lifestyle has on many of us. To me, being submissive (plus altering my gender) forces me (or gives me space) to bring out a vulnerability and caringness that is not always part of the vanilla male role, although I'm a caring person in vanilla life too. Exactly how this balances with my "normal" day demeanour I haven't figured out 100% yet.

[~*crimson_flower*~]

I'm starting to realize that my submissive desires may very well stem from a need to break from the tiring task of always being in control of the rest of my life.
My head is still spinning from all the self-discoveries I've made recently.

i think it may be the same with me. i'm an icredibly controlled woman, and a feminist, and perhaps being a sub is a break from that, a little chance to be possessed instead of independent to be instructed instead of groping around to find what i wnat in my own mind. i love being strong and indepedent generally, but submission does appeal in the bedroom.

[nk_lion]

i think it may be the same with me. i'm an icredibly controlled woman, and a feminist, and perhaps being a sub is a break from that, a little chance to be possessed instead of independent to be instructed instead of groping around to find what i wnat in my own mind. i love being strong and indepedent generally, but submission does appeal in the bedroom.

There was a thread somewhere about a woman describing her feminist/sub mixture and how it works, I'll see if I can find it.

Nice av btw.

Found it:

Honesty and feminism (http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8821&highlight=feminism)

[gagged_Louise]

yes, great avatar, wonderful.

I guess there is a real quandary there: how can you on the one hand be a feminist, or believe in justice, and on the other hand enjoy fantasies (or real hard sexual play) of being bound, spanked, used, trashed, having your hair pulled? For one thing the first is about reality and politics, the other is about fantasies and about your private life, but still it's a kind of hard nut that only gets analyzable bit by bit.

[~*crimson_flower*~]

That's a very interesting thread. For me, the two can co-exist side by side because while i enjoy being dominated, i'm doing it voluntarily, because it's my choice, and while i may be surrendering a lot of power sexually, i wasn't foerced to do so by someone demanding women have no sexual agency - i made that choice for myself. i don't think my interest in BDSM hurts anyone(aside from myself and i like it that way!) as it doesn't prevent me from supporting equality for women and supporting their complete right to determine their live. This is just how i determine mine.

And thanks, ain't she a pretty doll? :)

[nk_lion]

That's a very interesting thread. For me, the two can co-exist side by side because while i enjoy being dominated, i'm doing it voluntarily, because it's my choice, and while i may be surrendering a lot of power sexually, i wasn't foerced to do so by someone demanding women have no sexual agency - i made that choice for myself. i don't think my interest in BDSM hurts anyone(aside from myself and i like it that way!) as it doesn't prevent me from supporting equality for women and supporting their complete right to determine their live. This is just how i determine mine.

And thanks, ain't she a pretty doll? :)



Pretty good, you figured this out way less time that I did.

[John56{vg}]

I just wanted to add from a Dom's point of view, that I feel that I like to dominate because I feel that it is a bit of control I have in a world that has sometimes felt I have no control over.

I also want to say that I have admired and respected and loved every woman I have played with. The contradictions are sometimes mindboggling but I love strong women and it turns me on to have them submit to me.

There is little doubt that strength and independence can co-exist with the desire to submit.

And Crimson, wonderful avatar, and it has been a pleasure getting to know you. You are a thoughtful and intelligent woman and you have my utmost respect.

[TomOfSweden]

I read up, and if this has already been asked, I missed it.

Part of the reason that I was so very stunned when I realized that I am a sub, is because in my normal life I am a very dominant person. I must control every aspect of my life. If ever someone challenges that control, there would be hell to pay. I am wholly unwilling to relinquish that control to anybody, ever.

Yet, I recently discovered that I have a deep longing to give myself completely to someone, to totally submit and relinquish that control. I feel I want that control to permeate all corners of my life to at least some degree. But I want to be able to do this without having to give up my dominant role in the world.

Are there others who seem to have this inner conflict? How do you reconcile the two vastly different sides of yourself? Is it possible to retain that side of yourself, and still be completely His (when you find your Dom)?


It doesn't have to be a conflict. Your longing to submit to a man, doesn't mean you long to submit to every man. Maybe if you just pick one it'll sort itself out. Then you might have that longing within you covered. You'll never find out unless you go for it.



Another question. I am currently in a relationship that is developing, we have not yet been intimate beyond what can be accomplished over the internet. He seems willing to test the waters of this with me, but I have concerns. I'm worried that, because He is not Dom by nature that He will never truly be able to fulfill that role the way I so need him to.

Same answer here. You worry to much. Go for it. Even if it doesn't work out, I guarantee it'll still be worth it. You'll have learned so much more about yourself. First relationship of anything are usually a disaster anyway.

[KoTe]

I had the same inner conflict when I realised I`m submissive.
The problem with me is that I know I want to control my life, but I also know how bad is to control my boyfriend. If a man can`t control, I start to boss him around. I hate doing it, but it happens by itself, just because I`ve been dominant with all my friends. My master and I have agreed for him to control me within the aspects of our relationship and sex. About everything else we discuss and do lots of compromises.

[sassykitten]

Thanks so much for all the replies. I've did a lot of thinking and I feel that I have figured a few things out. I am definitely much less worried now than I was before.

[KoTe]

Don`t worry, sassykitten. We`re subbies, that doesn`t mean we have to behave like slaves :)

[isabeau6]

i've been reading these responses and i'm exactly like that..i need to be in control of my life..the every day tasks involved, the way i try and fail to write burns the hell out of me...i do have dominant tendencies..i have a lack of patience...and then i tend to talk back..and not sure that's a sub-like quality...however as you stated, i long to give control of every part of my being to someone who will take control of me and do it with sternness yet compassion...i so long for someone to take control of every part of me, but my brain...i will never be a doormat..and someone once told me that being a sub means you have limits..but being a slave means becoming a doormat..and i disagree with that...any thoughts on that?

[TomOfSweden]

but being a slave means becoming a doormat..and i disagree with that...any thoughts on that?

I don't understand the problem. You want someone "to take control of every part of me". But any Master who loves you wants first and foremost that you are happy. If he doesn't care about your happiness then it's not much of a relationship, is it? So why not go for the happy doormat?

There's a difference between being in control and taking the decisions. In control means more than anything that you are aware of all the details. That you understand what is happening and why the Master does what he does. Which off-course can get a bit obsessive, but it's in my opinion nothing unhealthy. Communication and trust can solve all this. Or should solve all this.

[isabeau6]

I don't understand the problem. You want someone "to take control of every part of me". But any Master who loves you wants first and foremost that you are happy. If he doesn't care about your happiness then it's not much of a relationship, is it? So why not go for the happy doormat?

There's a difference between being in control and taking the decisions. In control means more than anything that you are aware of all the details. That you understand what is happening and why the Master does what he does. Which off-course can get a bit obsessive, but it's in my opinion nothing unhealthy. Communication and trust can solve all this. Or should solve all this.

by being a doormat i mean that..it's yes Master no Master never an opinion of your own..maybe i don't understand the conception of control..i've never had a real relationship with a real Dom/Master as i've found out to my detriment...and so now i have to learn all over again..trust ha i trust too easily that's my problem..and sure i'd love to be a happy doormat, as long as one understands a doormat isn't something that just lies there and takes it..a few of my friends have told me i'm too much of a free spirit to ever be owned..but being owned is a decision, is it not? damn as usual i don't make much sense..

[Slave Precious]

Are there others who seem to have this inner conflict? How do you reconcile the two vastly different sides of yourself? Is it possible to retain that side of yourself, and still be completely His (when you find your Dom)?


Yes, I have this inner conflict. I'm very dominant around my family and friends so discovering I was a sub and wanted to please someone did astound me. With my Master, I am very, very subserviant because I am His slave and I will do anything He asks - sometimes because I am dominant with others, it takes a few moments but most of the time i'm submissive.

[hispleasure]

I am very dominant and independent in my personal and professional life. I have been called a control freak far too many times. I have husband and 3 young kids to raise, a home and I am Charge nurse in level 1 trauma facility. To not have some level of control would be a stuggle to manage all of these things :)

I expressed this same conflict with my Dom (who is NOT my husband) that I could never be a doormat. I want more than anything to submit to him, but it has to be with outside respect to my individuality. My Dom accepts my submission...my complete submission as a gift. He says that I am the type of sub that truely ~has~ something to give to him. HE's not taking it...I am submitting.

Hispleasure

[hispleasure]

I will add regarding my submissiveness, is that I am always submissive...even when I am not...MY goals are always to please, comfort, nurture, support...so although I am ~dominant~control-freak~assertive~ or whatever adjective you'd like to define it as...I still am submissive in my demeneur.

[ladysinaz]

This thread is highly entertaining to me, i coudn't have opened this thread any better had i said it myself. Took the words right out of my head,

It seems there are a few of us strong will women kicking around here longing to have that 1 man be the one in control of us.

It is kind of a strange feeling to need to rule the world :)
yet need to feel owned at the same time

can be a frusterating feeling as well depending on the circumstance

[tessa]

Part of the reason that I was so very stunned when I realized that I am a sub, is because in my normal life I am a very dominant person. I must control every aspect of my life. If ever someone challenges that control, there would be hell to pay. I am wholly unwilling to relinquish that control to anybody, ever.
I believe there is a great deal of difference between "control" and "Dominance". To me, they are separate and quite distinct from each other. The need to control, for me anyway, stems from my fear of a few specific things. I'm quite controlling, but not even an ounce Dominant.

Yet, I recently discovered that I have a deep longing to give myself completely to someone, to totally submit and relinquish that control. I feel I want that control to permeate all corners of my life to at least some degree. But I want to be able to do this without having to give up my dominant role in the world.
Perhaps being a Switch would allow you to experience both worlds? Just a thought.


Another question. I am currently in a relationship that is developing, we have not yet been intimate beyond what can be accomplished over the internet. He seems willing to test the waters of this with me, but I have concerns. I'm worried that, because He is not Dom by nature that He will never truly be able to fulfill that role the way I so need him to.
If he is not a Dominant by nature, please proceed with caution regarding seeking his interest in this. It almost always ends up miserable for both if the issue is forced.

Best of all to you.
tessa :wave:

[good_girl]

I find for myself there have been way too many parts of my life that I have had no choice but to be in complete control, and quite frankly I'm tired of it.
This is not to say that I want to give up all control in all areas of my life, I do enjoy having some, but at the end of my 8 hours at work I am quite happy to leave it there. My past relationship (long story) was one where I had no choice but to be in complete control all the time, thus it being a past relationship, I simply couldn't take it anymore. I find it refreshing now to have met someone I enjoy, who is willing (and happy) to accept the responsibility of what I have given him, he does not control every aspect of my life, but when I see him, or hear his voice, or even open an e-mail from him I feel relief in that I am no longer in a position where I have to make all the decisions, it's like a breath of fresh air to me, and for the first time in my life I feel I can breathe deeply.

[HollyBlue]

I find for myself there have been way too many parts of my life that I have had no choice but to be in complete control, and quite frankly I'm tired of it.
This is not to say that I want to give up all control in all areas of my life, I do enjoy having some, but at the end of my 8 hours at work I am quite happy to leave it there. My past relationship (long story) was one where I had no choice but to be in complete control all the time, thus it being a past relationship, I simply couldn't take it anymore. I find it refreshing now to have met someone I enjoy, who is willing (and happy) to accept the responsibility of what I have given him, he does not control every aspect of my life, but when I see him, or hear his voice, or even open an e-mail from him I feel relief in that I am no longer in a position where I have to make all the decisions, it's like a breath of fresh air to me, and for the first time in my life I feel I can breathe deeply.

You've expressed my experience, almost exactly. From growing up too fast and becoming "lady of the house" at age fourteen because of my mother's illness and death from breast cancer, to marrying too young and trying to take care of a full-grown little boy for fourteen years, to taking over projects and leading people my entire working career...I wanted nothing more than to let go. Rather than type my thoughts on the subject all over again, I'll refer to a blog post I made, in hopes that reading it may help someone who is struggling with confusion about living a dominant life with a submissive's heart:

The Snow Leopard (http://hollybluesflightofideas.blogspot.com/2007/09/snow-leopard.html)

[jeanne]

I find it refreshing now to have met someone I enjoy, who is willing (and happy) to accept the responsibility of what I have given him, he does not control every aspect of my life, but when I see him, or hear his voice, or even open an e-mail from him I feel relief in that I am no longer in a position where I have to make all the decisions, it's like a breath of fresh air to me, and for the first time in my life I feel I can breathe deeply.

Well said. Yes. Exactly.

[good_girl]

You've expressed my experience, almost exactly. From growing up too fast and becoming "lady of the house" at age fourteen because of my mother's illness and death from breast cancer, to marrying too young and trying to take care of a full-grown little boy for fourteen years, to taking over projects and leading people my entire working career...I wanted nothing more than to let go. Rather than type my thoughts on the subject all over again, I'll refer to a blog post I made, in hopes that reading it may help someone who is struggling with confusion about living a dominant life with a submissive's heart:

The Snow Leopard (http://hollybluesflightofideas.blogspot.com/2007/09/snow-leopard.html)

I read your blog, and although my story is different than yours is has it's share of similarities. I recently got a tattoo of an angelfish, symbolic of me, the angelfish looks beautiful and delicate but is actually a very strong fish, a fighter, add to that, although they do fine on their own, they prefer to have a partner, and when in pairs they take care of each other, that is me in a nutshell.

[White Rabbit]

I think this post addresses an important feature of the D/s lifestyle and a conflict that it present in many of us.
I am often a dominating character in everyday situations. In groups, I'll take charge and make decisions, I'll voice my opinion, I'll lead if a group needs leadership.
But in the bedroom, I'm a very different character, and there is nothing I love more than submitting completely to my Mistress. I feel it is a freeing experience, it releases stress, it takes me to a place that I can't get to any other way.
I'm also interested in the concept of 'topping from the bottom', and exactly what it means. Sometimes, though rarely, I find myself provoking my Mistress just a bit so that she hits or bites harder. Sometimes I like to set up situations, or make objects (I handmade a cane or our 1 year anniversary just last week) for her to use on me. Should I stop doing this? Does anyone else?

[Tufty]

I have to take control of situations when I'm at work; I have to make 'on the spot' decisions; I have to be responsible for other staff members.

I think Ozme52 has hit the nail on the head (certainly in my case) by saying that it's like taking a vacation. It really does make a change to have somebody else 'in control'...even though it may only be for a few hours.

By nature, I'm NOT a submissive person at all but sometime it's nice to have somebody else taking over and telling me what do do for a change.

[jeanne]

For those who need the relief from everyday life, it's no different than taking a vacation.


I'm with Tufty on this - Oz has it right. Only one thing to focus on - his pleasure and satisfaction. It's very freeing and a peaceful (yes, even when it hurts) place to be.

[His_little one]

I'm with Tufty on this - Oz has it right. Only one thing to focus on - his pleasure and satisfaction. It's very freeing and a peaceful (yes, even when it hurts) place to be.


Very well said....

I think the "questioning" of oneself is pretty common for submissives, especially in the beginning stages of a relationship. Part of it is letting go of the control you're so used to having in every day life and I think an even larger part of it is accepting that someone wants to be with you BECAUSE of that submissive side. Society has spent years programming us females to be all strong and independent and accepting that the 2 sides can coexist within you is not an easy feat.

From personal experience I am dominant in my every day life but when it comes to relationships i believe the man should be in control. Like Kote I will try to control him if I can -- not necessarily on purpose but as more of a subconscious test i guess. If he lets me control the relationship I get bored and lose respect. I guess that's where the scorpio in me comes in to play -- we'll control anyone that we see as weak or anyone that will let us. Ultimately, it’s that place of peace where his pleasure, will, and satisfaction are all that matter to me that I desire to get.

[jeanne]

...I think an even larger part of it is accepting that someone wants to be with you BECAUSE of that submissive side.


Exactly!! And that he doesn't have to be a sick, twisted individual in order to appreciate it. Actually, sick, twisted individuals wouldn't appreciate it, they'd just use it. In a bad way.



Ultimately, it’s that place of peace where his pleasure, will, and satisfaction are all that matter to me that I desire to get.

It's worth the work to get there. Oh yes it is. :)

[Ozme52]

Only one thing to focus on - his pleasure and satisfaction. It's very freeing and a peaceful (yes, even when it hurts) place to be.

Now THAT is what I call a great attitude. :hubba:

[jeanne]

Now THAT is what I call a great attitude. :hubba:

Why, thank you. Thank you very much! :) I have an awesome teacher.

[Playfulsub]

From personal experience I am dominant in my every day life but when it comes to relationships i believe the man should be in control. Like Kote I will try to control him if I can -- not necessarily on purpose but as more of a subconscious test i guess. If he lets me control the relationship I get bored and lose respect.


This is exactly true for me. The right Dom for me would have to be able to see through this and know what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times I've been manipulative and played little games to see if I would be caught. I want to be caught! A Dom who could see what I'm doing will be my intellectual equal, and it would have to be that way, for me to be able to submit.

[Ozme52]

This is exactly true for me. The right Dom for me would have to be able to see through this and know what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times I've been manipulative and played little games to see if I would be caught. I want to be caught! A Dom who could see what I'm doing will be my intellectual equal, and it would have to be that way, for me to be able to submit.


Maybe..... but only maybe.

Wouldn't you prefer someone whose attention to you obliviated the need to test him, who made you feel so content and cared for in your submission that the thought, the need to test him... was entirely sublimated, subsumed, subdued.

Then you could contentedly devote all your efforts to pleasing him.

[Ozme52]

I guess that's where the scorpio in me comes in to play -- we'll control anyone that we see as weak or anyone that will let us.

So the key is to determine that up front... and not after you've made the commitment to serve.


Ultimately, it’s that place of peace where his pleasure, will, and satisfaction are all that matter to me that I desire to get.

Which is also my point of view... or is that already obvious?

[Playfulsub]

Maybe..... but only maybe.

Wouldn't you prefer someone whose attention to you obliviated the need to test him, who made you feel so content and cared for in your submission that the thought, the need to test him... was entirely sublimated, subsumed, subdued.

Then you could contentedly devote all your efforts to pleasing him.

Yes, I would love that. So far, I've never found someone like that.

[jeanne]

Maybe..... but only maybe.

Wouldn't you prefer someone whose attention to you obliviated the need to test him, who made you feel so content and cared for in your submission that the thought, the need to test him... was entirely sublimated, subsumed, subdued.

Then you could contentedly devote all your efforts to pleasing him.

Only a few are lucky enough to find one who pays that kind of attention. I'm one of the lucky few. :)

[Sir_Russell]

Why is it that so many subs want to give up control but also want the Dom to be a mind reader. It shows that you don't respect the one you want and that is sad. I just left a relationship where she wanted me as her Dom but she could not stop testing me to see if she could get her way. Instead a Dom, a real one, will rebel against that type of behavior and become either physically forceful or withdraw. Now if what you want is to trigger rage then test often, never be satisfied with what you have, let him know in those subtle ways that you don't trust or believe in him.

Life is way to short for me to want to play childish games or games that I can't win, ie mind reading. Be honest first with yourself about the reasons you test, we all have faults and short comings, if you expect a perfect Dom I just don't know of one.

[Playfulsub]

Life is way to short for me to want to play childish games or games that I can't win, ie mind reading. Be honest first with yourself about the reasons you test, we all have faults and short comings, if you expect a perfect Dom I just don't know of one.

You are absolutely right, Sir Russell. My experience with Doms has been 90% online. As I'm sure you know, there are many, many "wannabes" out there who call themselves Doms but are far from it. I can't tell you how many times I've been approached in a chat room by a "Dom" demanding that I call him Sir immediately, and throwing orders my way expecting me to follow them when I've just met him! I guess my guard is up a bit and I test to see if a Dom is really a Dom and not just some horny top who wants to call me nasty names while he cyber fucks me. Apparently, I've been looking in all the wrong places.

[Sir_Russell]

LOL, Playfulsub,
Sorry I know that you have to test a Dom probably even more in on-line settings. I am just bitter I guess having to walk away from the woman, slave, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with due to that kind of behavior.

As a Master I become totally engrossed with the woman that I select and once I have proven myself as both a man and as a Dom/Master I want that testing to stop. When it doesn't and goes on and on just to trigger a reaction then I will release for both of our goods, even when that is beyond painful to me.

I am searching for my one and willing to talk to you about anything to do with the Life or who you want to be.

[Sir_Russell]

delia,
I understand the need to test a Dom/Master and I think you agreed with me that once control and respect has been established then testing is no longer needed.

If not, if you are one of those that have to be all ways testing to see if you can cause your Dom to react then you are topping from the bottom. I just don't respond to that type of testing once I have proven myself. I am the one who is in charge or in control but I also believe that her submission is a gift that she has the right to withdraw. Constant testing tells me she needs someone that offer other then I offer.

[Tufty]

So my advice? If you are a sub that likes to push... try what I almost failed to try in time: use your words. They explain things that your body never can, that your Dominant can't "sense".

Communication, like all things in lifestyle, is a two way street.

Absolutely right! I had a wonderful relationship with a lady a few years ago - and if I hadn't talked to her about my 'sub' side, I would never have realiesd that she had a Domme side...and she had never found a male sub to play with.

There's always a 50/50 chance in life (better than most odds) and it will either be a 'yes' or a 'no'...but you won't know until you talk about it.

[Wedjat]

I've read this entire thread in one sitting, and I feel like I should say something, but not sure where to start.

I was talking yesterday with my friend and mentor on this site (you know who you are, Sir : ) and made the comment that you really can't judge anyone except as an individual - something I believe very deeply. That's the real problem with any stereotype - they're always wrong on an individual level even if they fit some general classification. I think that works here too. While we may even see ourselves as various labels, we are all still individuals struggling to figure out who we are and how we might fit in, when it all really comes down to how two people can best mesh their lives. That's true of any relationship, bdsm or not. There are just different labels here to work through.

Feminist is one label, submissive another one, and I don't see why they can't co-exist. I've struggled with the concept of combining the two as well, and there have been some very good comments on this thread that have helped me too. Each person has to work it out for him or herself. In the so-called idealized relationship of 1950's 60's TV women were basically subservient, but weren't really getting much out of it to my mind. I think being submissive in an equal relationship, where both parties respect and care about the other is something to shoot for and shouldn't make the woman less than she is. Feminism shouldn't be about one gender being better than the other, but respecting each other - I think a lot of feminists have wanted respect without returning it or earning it. I like what my friend has said about submission being a gift and the comments that a good submissive should be strong. For me,that type of submission would be very freeing to be myself, and if that isn't femininism I don't know what is.

More personally, I have never,ever understood women who see the need to test someone else's affection - it really just doesn't make sense to me. I hope that doesn't sound judgemental, I just want to say that even the label of 'female' shouldn't include an assumption that ALL women are like that. Do some women act that way because they think they're supposed to? or have been socialized to it? or saw their mothers do that sort of thing? The answers are as individual as each person.

Geez, I'm really rambling here, I'll shut up now : )

[Sir_Russell]

Wedjat
Well said and well thought out. I only have one question who is this handsome, intelligent, all knowing mentor you speak of.

Very proud of your writing.

[jeanne]

...and if that isn't femininism I don't know what is.


Very well said!

[Wedjat]

Thank you Jeanne, and thank you too Sir, that means a lot to me. Did I mention that he's humble too? : )

[Ozme52]

Well... pushing and testing is all well and good... and probably necessary in most cases, perhaps all online cases. But sometimes, you find the perfect round peg to fit in the perfect round hole.

And all that 'conflict' proves to be unnecessary. I haven't felt pushed or tested and she doesn't seem to have the need to try. We learn what each the other needs and desires as we take the journey together.

Yet our time together has been exquisitely intense... yet immensely comfortable.

[Playfulsub]

I can understand why that would make one bitter. I guess we all come with our 'baggage' - so to speak.

I would love to trust a Dom to the point where the testing will stop. And I believe it will happen eventually. My 'baggage' is trusting someone with my emotional well-being.







LOL, Playfulsub,
Sorry I know that you have to test a Dom probably even more in on-line settings. I am just bitter I guess having to walk away from the woman, slave, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with due to that kind of behavior.

As a Master I become totally engrossed with the woman that I select and once I have proven myself as both a man and as a Dom/Master I want that testing to stop. When it doesn't and goes on and on just to trigger a reaction then I will release for both of our goods, even when that is beyond painful to me.

I am searching for my one and willing to talk to you about anything to do with the Life or who you want to be.

[His_little one]

I don’t think testing is necessarily something subs set out to do. We don’t try to be sneaky and manipulative – I think “testing” is just a way of our insecurities coming out and more often than not the act of testing is unconscious—I used to do it as a way to get my Dom to show me he was dedicated to me and the relationship or if I sensed some sort of weakness. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending what I was doing or even saying that I concocted some scheme or formula for doing so. And honestly, no matter what the outcome was, I always felt guilt ridden for having disrespected my Dom by testing him but at that point I didn’t understand there was a way to communicate my feelings and thoughts, I always had this notion of well I show him my dedication and love through my submission and it’s obvious so why isn’t his love and dedication to me so obvious? At that point I was far from understanding how Doms feel about being dedicated to someone that they dominate – I’ll be honest, I still don’t understand it but when it comes to my current relationship I’ve thrown caution to the wind and I trust what it is, I don’t question it.

I’ll be honest, I always thought I’d be a sub that tested but I guess like everything else the key, as Oz put it, is “finding the perfect round peg.” I am in a relatively new relationship with my Dom but he’s completely brought out another side of my submission that I didn’t know existed. It’s natural – I don’t fight it and I don’t question it. Without even realizing it I dropped any baggage I had and gave him a clean slate. I’ve freely given him trust and he’s more than earned to keep it and instead of giving him some shitty pass/fail test in which to show me his love and dedication I’ve given him the time and space to show it on his own – I feel it when he touches me and holds me and I see it in the way he looks at me. It feels far better than the result of any test could and honestly, nothing has ever felt so amazing.

[Flaming_Redhead]

Are there others who seem to have this inner conflict? How do you reconcile the two vastly different sides of yourself? Is it possible to retain that side of yourself, and still be completely His (when you find your Dom)?

Another question. I am currently in a relationship that is developing, we have not yet been intimate beyond what can be accomplished over the internet. He seems willing to test the waters of this with me, but I have concerns. I'm worried that, because He is not Dom by nature that He will never truly be able to fulfill that role the way I so need him to.

I had a great deal of inner conflict when I began exploring this lifestyle. On the one hand, I craved more than anything to find someone who would take control, but on the other hand, I was terrified to let anyone take control. I have reconciled the 2 vastly different sides of myself because one of them is merely a facade for the benefit of the outside world. The other side is my true self which the world has tried to destroy over and over and over. I had been "pretending" to be a bitch, i.e. strong, independent woman, for years because if you're not, people will run all over you. I learned early in life that people will use you and abuse you if you let them, and there's not very many people you can trust or depend on to help you. I have no problem anymore standing up for myself or others when I feel a serious wrong has been committed. I've become comfortable being a bitch because it's safe. However, I'm not really comfortable being in charge of others. It's not me. It's not what I want, but people perceive me a certain way and then put me in a position to make decisions. If I feel you can't make good decisions or just won't make a decision, then I have no choice but to take control. Even though it might be empowering, I hate it! I'm really a subbie at heart, but I keep it hidden. I've been slowly revealing it to my dom because he's passed all the "testing." My testing him comes from my inability to trust that he has my best interest at heart. I don't need to test him anymore. I'm satified that he's the real deal. So, yes, I can be completely his, but the rest of the world can kiss my ass! They don't have my best interest at heart.

As far as this budding relationship with a vanilla goes, I wouldn't recommend it. Why waste your time and his? Guys will say anything to get with you, but if he's not really dominant, then you'll only end up frustrated and unhappy. Sure, he may want to "try" it....how many times have I heard that? Hm...2-3 times last year...but their hearts weren't in it. Don't settle for anything less than what you want and need in a partner!

[caligirl{Rob}]

i look at it as my strength, ability and willingness to handle my everyday life makes my submission to Him a more precious gift

hugs,
cali

[Playfulsub]

I had a great deal of inner conflict when I began exploring this lifestyle. On the one hand, I craved more than anything to find someone who would take control, but on the other hand, I was terrified to let anyone take control. I have reconciled the 2 vastly different sides of myself because one of them is merely a facade for the benefit of the outside world. The other side is my true self which the world has tried to destroy over and over and over. I had been "pretending" to be a bitch, i.e. strong, independent woman, for years because if you're not, people will run all over you. I learned early in life that people will use you and abuse you if you let them, and there's not very many people you can trust or depend on to help you. I have no problem anymore standing up for myself or others when I feel a serious wrong has been committed. I've become comfortable being a bitch because it's safe. However, I'm not really comfortable being in charge of others. It's not me. It's not what I want, but people perceive me a certain way and then put me in a position to make decisions. If I feel you can't make good decisions or just won't make a decision, then I have no choice but to take control. Even though it might be empowering, I hate it! I'm really a subbie at heart, but I keep it hidden. I've been slowly revealing it to my dom because he's passed all the "testing." My testing him comes from my inability to trust that he has my best interest at heart. I don't need to test him anymore. I'm satified that he's the real deal. So, yes, I can be completely his, but the rest of the world can kiss my ass! They don't have my best interest at heart.



Wow, thank you for putting this into words. This is also me, to a T.

[Wedjat]

His little one, I'm so happy for you . It's nice to see the support all of the subs on here are giving to each other too.

[His_little one]

Thanks Wedjat. I agree --I think it's great how supportive everyone is on this site. I've been on other forum sites that are no where near as sincere as it is here -- It's great to be able to share your thoughts and feelings and have them be respected and appreciated even if everyone doesn't necessarily agree.

[jeanne]

...but he’s completely brought out another side of my submission that I didn’t know existed. It’s natural – I don’t fight it and I don’t question it.

...nothing has ever felt so amazing.

You put that into words so perfectly. :)

[deigja]

I have looked over this thread now several times as i´m currently stuck in another conflict myself which I still have to sort out.
I´m kind of a controll freak, always trying to be on the safe side, backing away from everything risky and by this even blockig myself.
I´m torn between my longing to give up control, to feel, to quit thinking and give myself to a man, and my urge to protect myself.
I do this by controlling everything, planning everything.
To the outside this gives me the air of cool selfconfidence that i only wear for others to see. On the inside its more a denial of my feelings to keep myself from beeing hurt.
So my conflict is not between beeing dominant and beeing submissive at the same time on different levels, but between my selfprotection and my wish to totally open up towards someone...giving control to him, showing him my whole self and thus making myself vulnerable

bye
deigja

[deigja]

I have looked over this thread now several times as i´m currently stuck in another conflict myself which I still have to sort out.
I´m kind of a controll freak, always trying to be on the safe side, backing away from everything risky and by this even blockig myself.
I´m torn between my longing to give up control, to feel, to quit thinking and give myself to a man, and my urge to protect myself.
I do this by controlling everything, planning everything.
To the outside this gives me the air of cool selfconfidence that i only wear for others to see. On the inside its more a denial of my feelings to keep myself from beeing hurt.
So my conflict is not between beeing dominant and beeing submissive at the same time on different levels, but between my selfprotection and my wish to totally open up towards someone...giving control to him, showing him my whole self and thus making myself vulnerable

bye
deigja

[jeanne]

...but between my selfprotection and my wish to totally open up towards someone...giving control to him, showing him my whole self and thus making myself vulnerable


I hope you find one you can be that with, deigja. It is an amazing feeling. :)
Just take your time and be careful, sweetie!

[TomOfSweden]

I have looked over this thread now several times as i´m currently stuck in another conflict myself which I still have to sort out.
I´m kind of a controll freak, always trying to be on the safe side, backing away from everything risky and by this even blockig myself.
I´m torn between my longing to give up control, to feel, to quit thinking and give myself to a man, and my urge to protect myself.
I do this by controlling everything, planning everything.
To the outside this gives me the air of cool selfconfidence that i only wear for others to see. On the inside its more a denial of my feelings to keep myself from beeing hurt.
So my conflict is not between beeing dominant and beeing submissive at the same time on different levels, but between my selfprotection and my wish to totally open up towards someone...giving control to him, showing him my whole self and thus making myself vulnerable

bye
deigja

You've already figured out what your problem is. That's the big, (huuuge) step. Now is the easy part. Deciding how you're going to proceed. You don't have to chose. I've known several people who have both a master and a slave.

Experiment. You don't have to put your whole heart into something. You're bum can be good enough.

[deigja]

I hope you find one you can be that with, deigja. It is an amazing feeling. :)
Just take your time and be careful, sweetie!

Thanx jeanne, i´ll take care even if I hope to have already found hte one... I´ll have to wait and see as its still new..

[deigja]

[QUOTE=Experiment. You don't have to put your whole heart into something. You're bum can be good enough.[/QUOTE]

It´s not that easy for me as I wish to just one time put my whole heart into it....I have kept it out of it to often already.
But thanx none the less och hälsningar til sverige ;-)

[submissivemark]

I didn't read all of the thread as I didn't need to, at least as far as the control issues go.

First of all, it's not uncommon for someone that is dominant or in control in their vanilla life to want or need to submit to another & "give up" control in a non vanilla situation, (be it a relationship, marriage, or just a temporary scene), it happens all the time & is nothing to worry over. In the case of non-vanilla, just "go with the flow" inside you & release the "inner sub/slave".

Now, if you are a "control freak", (as I am to an extent), being submissive is merely another aspect of controling yourself. If a D/M wants you to obey them, (& of course you want to obey them), then you have to exercise great self control to "go against" your vanilla nature, (& society's cultural training of us in general), & to give in to their wants. It's one thing to think you can stand in a corner as motionless as possible for, say thirty minutes; quite another to do it in reality. That's where the self control comes into play.

No conflict here. Any turmoil you may be feeling is likely due to "going against the grain" as to society's mores & beliefs. Learn to let yourself go & control yourself in the right ways.

:cool: