Gorean?What do you think!

[cream _(DNW)]

Well my r/l Master and me were talking and he has told me he would like me to do some reading.I am and so far I am shocked at this.He sent me all the links and said just read them and tell me what you think.Well I am not so sure I can or would be able to live up to his desires.So far just the rules alone are alot to take in.Here's the rules so far,
Slave Rule One -All Freepersons are to be addressed as either Master or Mistress. If the sex of the Freeperson can not be determined from the name, Master is to be used until the gender is clarified.

dot graphic Slave Rule Two - Serve Every Master or Mistress as if your well being depends on being pleasing.......it does.

dot graphic Slave Rule Three - While a Freeperson may not always be right, they are, by definition, never WRONG. Slaves always have the last word in any disagreement..the words "Yes, Master"...

dot graphic Slave Rule Four - Jealousy and Possessiveness have killed more slaves than disobedience.

dot graphic Slave Rule Five - Slaves do not use the first person pronoun. There is not "I", "me" or "mine" in a slaves vocabulary.

dot graphic Slave Rule Six - Perfection of Service and Submission is the goal, mere excellence will be tolerated.

dot graphic Slave Rule Seven - Your collar carries the honor of your owner. Your attitude can make is as light as a feather or as heavy as a mountain.

dot graphic Slave Rule Eight - If there are none requiring service, use the time to clean, cook, bake, practice serving techniques with your sisters or learn about Gor. Do not be idle.

dot graphic Slave Rule Nine - Slaves possess nothing not given to them by their owner, including their name. What is given can be taken away. If you are entrusted to carry a name for an owner, or silks or jewelry, remember that these can be removed as easily as they were given.

dot graphic Slave Rule Ten - The merest whim of your owner is your highest law. And lawbreakers are punished.

lol it's alot for me,but I am stuff gonna be a sub for now if and when I am ready to ever try some thing like that I will

[Guest 91108]

ok. Those rules appear questionable for a working relationship.
And I am involved in it in seeking a rl Gorean slave to add to our family here.
It is the very rare person that can be a Gorean Slave.. I think in my opinion it is far beyond a BDSM slave, not even remotely alike, even though some can and do tie them together.


I would suggest your reading over this thread...
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8473
pay attention to Ironwulf, His_blizzard ,

[ThisYouWillDo]

Remember, Gor is pure fantasy. It may contain good (and bad) philosophies, but they are all based on what a human writer fantasised about once upon a time, possibly in a cold, dark and lonely room.

I sometimes wonder if those who follow gorean lifestyles actually believe that human beings can learn something deep and meaningful from acting out gorean roleplays, which they could not learn another way from humanity itself.

I'm not attacking goreans, and I'm not telling you to decline acceptance of those rules - but keep in mind, Gor isn't real, nor are the rules.

TYWD

[Clevernick]

cream, your desire to be submissive is the point here. Exactly how submissive you want to be is up to you. If you think it would enrich your life to follow these or any other made-up rules, and you're sure you want to commit to them, nobody will stop you. Your commitment is a gift only you can offer.

If you think it's just silly, then not even your Master can make you. You can always just ask to be released.

Nobody's opinion counts here but yours, is what I'm saying.

[MrDom]

ok first I like too say Is I am not in gor. Gor works mostly in chat rooms not in real life. As ThisYouWillDo said it fanasty yes in r/l too me it is. Now for my BDSM slave She use 10 postions from gor that we like but that all we incorprated in our M/s. Most of Gor is not for everyone. You should buy a book or too of Gor and reag it is what I would suggest.

MrDom

[Alex Bragi]

Remember, Gor is pure fantasy. It may contain good (and bad) philosophies, but they are all based on what a human writer fantasised about once upon a time, possibly in a cold, dark and lonely room.

I sometimes wonder if those who follow gorean lifestyles actually believe that human beings can learn something deep and meaningful from acting out gorean roleplays, which they could not learn another way from humanity itself.

I'm not attacking goreans, and I'm not telling you to decline acceptance of those rules - but keep in mind, Gor isn't real, nor are the rules.

TYWD

You know what I really, really, hate? I really, really hate it when I read a post and know, more or less, what I want to say in reply, but then someone has already gone and said what I wanted to say, only they've said it better!!!! *gg*

[wingsofanangel]

Just remember to communicate and also both be willing to give and be flexible.

Some things of Gor. are practical and work.. like many of the positions... I love them.

However, if you do not desire a more cold, distant, relationship then tell him. Never be afraid to be vocal as a sub. a good Dom will never put out your internal fire. So make sure you make your desires, limits, etc known... but resepectfully.. if he cannot listen or doesn't.. then I say move on (not to say things have gotten that serious.. just say IF)

compromise is a great thing in BDSM. Remember to keep an open mind too.. some things I was hard against... I now love.

-anya-

[Sir_Russell]

I agree with most that have responded. Gor is fine online I suppose but real life practitioners seem to have a lot of problems and more then a few injuries. I think that a sub just starting out it is next to impossible to do. Learn at a safe pace.

[Bald_J_and_F]

For anyone who thinks about Gor in real life, we recommend to read this:
http://www.geocities.com/gorean_stupidity/page1.htm

[Logic1]

As for a sub going into his/her first slave/Master relationship that would most likely be a step too far and he/she will get burned by it.
As a fantasy absolutely but for somebody just starting out the journey well in MY book it is a step(or two) too far.
I definitely agree that the positions are damn fine addon to a good sub/Master relationship but for most parts (and for somebody actually having a kinda normal life also) it isnt really practical nor working.

All the kudos to those that can accomplish it but for me.. not really. Might be the fact that I dont want a slave, I want a sub rather and my "other life" wouldnt work with the Gorean culture nor would I really want to incorporate it into it.

You would have to think for yourself there also. Is that something that YOU want to have for your life? Would it work? Do you want it to?

soo many questions to ponder there.
It seems a bit far fetched for me since you are just starting out feeling your sub side, but then again.. it is YOUR life and not mine so the only one able to really answer them is you.

[Bald_J_and_F]

As for a sub going into his/her first slave/Master relationship that would most likely be a step too far and he/she will get burned by it.
As a fantasy absolutely but for somebody just starting out the journey well in MY book it is a step(or two) too far.
I definitely agree that the positions are damn fine addon to a good sub/Master relationship but for most parts (and for somebody actually having a kinda normal life also) it isnt really practical nor working.

All the kudos to those that can accomplish it but for me.. not really. Might be the fact that I dont want a slave, I want a sub rather and my "other life" wouldnt work with the Gorean culture nor would I really want to incorporate it into it.

You would have to think for yourself there also. Is that something that YOU want to have for your life? Would it work? Do you want it to?

soo many questions to ponder there.
It seems a bit far fetched for me since you are just starting out feeling your sub side, but then again.. it is YOUR life and not mine so the only one able to really answer them is you.
Just as you can't be Christian without accepting ALL of the bible, you can't be Gorean without accepting ALL of Gor, in our opinion. And accepting ALL of Gor means a lot; we just want to point out how slaves who are no longer of use are being "disposed of".
Also we have to say this: Anyone who deems it necessary to follow the 3rd-class fantasies of a 4th-class writer only proves he or she lacks the imagination to be truly original.

[John56{vg}]

BaldJand F,

I agree with you and it sorta has a cult feel to me. The exclusion of BDSM as being "not gorean," and the arrogance of a lot of the so-called "Honorable" Goreans. I would be very careful of anything like this.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think reading the books might really enlighten some Goreans, lol.

[cariad]

I agree with most that have responded. Gor is fine online I suppose but real life practitioners seem to have a lot of problems and more then a few injuries. I think that a sub just starting out it is next to impossible to do. Learn at a safe pace.

Quite!

I like Gor, it is an interesting collection of one set of ideals. I have adopted a few since they fit into my personality and our desires. I would however not consider adopting the whole package, because they are simply not me, nor would they ever fit in with our lifestyle. The same applies to Old School/Old Guard practices and philosophies.

As Sir Russell said, please take it slowly. Spend a little time in the sea of submission with the water just up to your ankles. If you like that, then wade in a little deeper. It is far better to be safe and enjoy than to plunge in too deep and get over whelmed or 'fail' with unreasonable or impractically high ideals.

Hugs - and wishing you a wonderful journey of exploration. I loved and am loving every step of mine!

cariad

[cariad]

It is the very rare person that can be a Gorean Slave.. I think in my opinion it is far beyond a BDSM slave, not even remotely alike, even though some can and do tie them together.

If you have any pictues of BDSM slave tied to Gorean slave I am sure we have an eager audience...

[Logic1]

Just as you can't be Christian without accepting ALL of the bible, you can't be Gorean without accepting ALL of Gor, in our opinion. And accepting ALL of Gor means a lot; we just want to point out how slaves who are no longer of use are being "disposed of".
Also we have to say this: Anyone who deems it necessary to follow the 3rd-class fantasies of a 4th-class writer only proves he or she lacks the imagination to be truly original.

not sure what you are saying actually. Was it a flame to what I wrote or?

Personally some of it fits what I like and most dont since I dont want a slave at all. A sub is what I want just like I wrote in my original post.
Fantasies is all good and being original is by following your own mind and your own fantasies and ideas. Gor just might be a fantasy somebody likes, and if you or somebody else likes it that is completely up to whoever it is that likes it.
Getting somebody else to dictate YOUR truth for YOU is wrong in whatever shape or form that is (be that politics or religion or whatever).

[Bald_J_and_F]

not sure what you are saying actually. Was it a flame to what I wrote or?

Personally some of it fits what I like and most dont since I dont want a slave at all. A sub is what I want just like I wrote in my original post.
Fantasies is all good and being original is by following your own mind and your own fantasies and ideas. Gor just might be a fantasy somebody likes, and if you or somebody else likes it that is completely up to whoever it is that likes it.
Getting somebody else to dictate YOUR truth for YOU is wrong in whatever shape or form that is (be that politics or religion or whatever).
What we are saying is that you can't pick up a few things you like from Gor and then call yourself "Gorean". There are no doubt some interesting ideas and concepts in those books, but just as you can't pick up the concepts you like from the bible and dismiss the rest and then go and call yourself a "Christian" you can't pick up a few things you like from Gor and then go and call yourself a "Gorean". It is either all or nothing. And there is a lot in Gor that should better remain pure fantasy. Again we just point out how slaves who are no longer of use are being "disposed of". To use the Gorean euphemism.

[cariad]

Calls for a short coffee break as emotions start to rise... Discussions on Gor, or indeed any other rigid lifestyle are always interesting and nearly always controversial. But please keep it friendly...

Pretty please....I have ironing to do...

cariad

[Bald_J_and_F]

Calls for a short coffee break as emotions start to rise... Discussions on Gor, or indeed any other rigid lifestyle are always interesting and nearly always controversial. But please keep it friendly...

Pretty please....I have ironing to do...

cariad
No emotions involved at all; just pure logic. If we had expressed our emotions towards Gor we would have used a different kind of language.

[annie]

I would suggest your reading over this thread...
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8473
pay attention to Ironwulf, His_blizzard ,

I was just about to post that link as well.....

*goes off thinking it is scary when you start thinking even a small bit like the Wolf....*

[annie]

Calls for a short coffee break as emotions start to rise... Discussions on Gor, or indeed any other rigid lifestyle are always interesting and nearly always controversial. But please keep it friendly...

Pretty please....I have ironing to do...

cariad

After reading past the *shivers* Wolf's post, I agree with Cariad...

Discussing Gor can be a wonderful discussion, but there are some who participate as fully in it as possible for them and some who dismiss it all.

Just be mindful of that and keep it polite and respectful. You don't have to agree with the other's thoughts or opinions on the topic but they are free to have those thoughts and opinions and to follow as much or as little of practice that they feel works for them... for some that is a black and white issue others see shades of gray... all of the colors (even the funky oranges out there) should be respected!

[crazy_grrluk]

A little while ago I wrote an article...which can be found on my own web site...under Gor v BDSM

The Gorean lifestyle is not a part of D/s or BDSM,
nor has it any attachment to them other then incidental.

My intention in writing this article was to form a basis for understanding
the Gorean lifestyle from a BDSM point of view.
Something that someone coming from that background could gain an overview,
a contextual framework for understanding what it is.

In considering the Gorean lifestyle,it is probably best to first consider the background – where it came from, etc.

Between 1967 and 1986, an author by the name of John Norman
wrote a series of 25 books, set on the fictional planet of Gor.
Whilst the ‘feel’ of the world is alien in many of its aspects
(vegetation, animal life, etc) from a human perspective,
it is very similar to classical Greek / Roman culture.

The Gorean lifestyle then is based upon an extracted philosophy from
books written by a philosopher.

In splitting out the philosophy from the books,
it is also necessary to look at the cultural background
against which they are set, but this background does not
necessarily become part of the lifestyle.
Indeed, the lifestyle is based solely on the philosophy;
any cultural aspects are included as individuals wish,
often to give a more ‘Gorean’ flavour.

It is easy to see from this that the connection between
D/s and Gor is not at all apparent.
No lifestyle based solely on one aspect could be so encompassing
as the Gorean one evidently is.

Why then the immediate association in most BDSM’ers minds?
I suspect that it stems mainly from online interaction,
rather then offline, since there are so few lifestyle
in the UK that many people will never meet them anyway.
Online, the focus of most ‘Goreans’ seems to be the master / slave dynamic,
to the exclusion of all else.
In the lifestyle context of course, owning a slave does not make one Gorean,
neither does the lack of one make one not.
Of course, some Goreans, just as any other members of society,
may choose to indulge in BDSM for their own amusement.

As Most have said here The Gorean lifestyle works well in this world of virtual reality as it is mostly role play....but really does not fair well in real life.

cg

[annie]

Cream,

As I said to you yesterday in the chat room. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Gor but you and the one you choose to serve! You have to decide where it fits into your life, or even if it does fit, or how much it fits.

Just as with anything else in this world, my kink may not be your kink, my choices/views on Gor may not (and probably won't) work for you... reason being, because they are MINE and come from my own life experience, etc.

It is great that you have asked for input and want to find out more about it. And many here have wonderful insight on all aspects and sides of the equation. It appears as though the links posted are all excellent sources of information for both sides of the spectrum...

Study it, think about it, talk it over with DNW, but ultimately it is a choice only you can make... just take it slowly and work your way through it step by step.

Who knows, you may find you hate all of it, love parts of it, or are totally enamored with most of it... that is part of the fun of the exploration though!

Hugs~
Annie

[TomOfSweden]

My main issue with Gor is the so called Goreans. The few discussions I've had with a Gorean and stuff I've seen written by them on the net suggests that in the Gorean scene Gorean submissiveness is more of a competition than drawing inspiration from it.

I don't think its healthy for anybody to have ideals they can't live up to. But that said, my relationship with my slave fits that description pretty good. But that has probably more to do with that her personality was like this to begin with. It was nothing that had to be imposed.

[Bald_J_and_F]

After reading past the *shivers* Wolf's post, I agree with Cariad...

Discussing Gor can be a wonderful discussion, but there are some who participate as fully in it as possible for them and some who dismiss it all.

Just be mindful of that and keep it polite and respectful. You don't have to agree with the other's thoughts or opinions on the topic but they are free to have those thoughts and opinions and to follow as much or as little of practice that they feel works for them... for some that is a black and white issue others see shades of gray... all of the colors (even the funky oranges out there) should be respected!
Our point is that it is simply impossible to live in the world of Gor without endangering the slave's health and life. Not if you follow the rules of Gore fully and to the point. And if you don't, how can you call yourself a "Gorean"? How could a Christian claim to be a Christian if he did not believe in all of the bible but only a few parts he likes? That's all we want to say and express. Anyone who calls himself "Gorean" while only following part of it is just fooling him/herself. And this is nothing specifically Gorean; it would apply to the followers of any philosophy. And if someone REALLY lived out the Gorean fantasy, all we could say about this person is "beware of him/her".

[cariad]

I don't think its healthy for anybody to have ideals they can't live up to.

Once again I disagree with you Tom. At least for me it is essential to have ideals which I aspire to, and in practice that often means I cannot live up to. My life is not completely stable, any more than most peoples', and by having high ideals I hope that I will moving towards them, rather than risking accepting where I am which means that I might sink.

Huuuugs and good to tussle with you once in a while.

cariad

[TomOfSweden]

Once again I disagree with you Tom. At least for me it is essential to have ideals which I aspire to, and in practice that often means I cannot live up to. My life is not completely stable, any more than most peoples', and by having high ideals I hope that I will moving towards them, rather than risking accepting where I am which means that I might sink.

Huuuugs and good to tussle with you once in a while.

cariad

But then you don't really have ideals you can't live up to, because you have accepted that you never will reach them. You real ideals are tacit. Just because you haven't formulated these ideals for your self, doesn't mean they aren't there.

In reality I suspect that your real ideals fit your life exactly as you have it now, as do most people. We seem to love to judge others, and what better vantage point than ones own.

And if they don't fit your life as you have it now, then I believe the purpose is that you take pleasure in beating yourself up over your short-comings, but never to reach them. Since that would remove this dynamic.

[ThisYouWillDo]

Still with us, cream? lol

[Logic1]

I dont call myself a Gorean and neither really a Christian although I am born into it with the christening and all that.
Still no clue wheather the posts were directed at me was a flame or whatever, but since my posts does match quite alot of what you wrote Bald J and F you probably just quoted it and tried and emphazise some of it.

Gor and all that fantasies is a bit much for me and my likings. I have read a few of all his books and while some of it sounds like a fun fantasy(story) that is what Ill let it be. I got no interest in living in that world even in a fantasy aspect nor do I wish to.

Again..
as a newbie to submissiveness I think that the Gor fantasy is too far to go as the first steps into it. The waters are too deep.
Take it slow and test the waters before you do anything like that imo cream

[Bald_J_and_F]

I dont call myself a Gorean and neither really a Christian although I am born into it with the christening and all that.
Still no clue wheather the posts were directed at me was a flame or whatever, but since my posts does match quite alot of what you wrote Bald J and F you probably just quoted it and tried and emphazise some of it.
Indeed, we just quoted it to show which part we replied to, that's all.

[Logic1]

Indeed, we just quoted it to show which part we replied to, that's all.

lol good that we cleared that out :wave:

Frankly Gor is off my comfortzone for most parts, but as a book or online play it could work for some I guess.

[Alex Bragi]

Bald J & F, it's so nice to see you back posting, and thank you for posting that link. I found it really interesting. So close to the mark of what little I've seen of "Goreans".

I must confess a few of times I have rather enjoy just observing their chat rooms. It's like this slave will give a whole long and flowery description of several paragraphs, then the master/dom, or what ever they call them there, (I forget) will post something like: *takes cup from girl* --*gg* It all seems a bit out of wack to me, and on so many levels.

But, hey, eveyone's different, and those who indulge themselves in it seem to really enjoy it.

[***Kate***]

~Laughs~
seems a lot of people can write a lot about things they dont understand. makes you wonder what it would be like if they wrote about things they did understand......

[Sir_Russell]

We all seem to agree that Gor is fantasy and so by definition suited for role playing. I live in a real world with a self imposed rigid set of guidlines and ethics. I am pleased with my actions and my life. When a slave or sub calls me Master it is out of joy not from fear that I will punish her. My lifestyle is such that it has this worlds values at heart.

If I show a new sub a place that she has only visited in her fantasy I show her that it can be real and make a promise to her that it is where I live. She can accept and join me there to leave when ever she wants too.