Kink or lifestyle?

[cariad]

I once said to someone here that I did not think he was sub or a switch, he just enjoyed kinky sex. I could feel the shock wave as he took it in. He has since come back and thanked me, since it has given him a new freedom to enjoy being himself. I have more gently suggested the same thing to a couple of other people.

Wondering what other people's thoughts were on this. Is there a difference? Does it help to know where on the vast spectrum of sexuality and sexual pleasures we sit?

cariad

[jeanne]

Is there a difference? Does it help to know where on the vast spectrum of sexuality and sexual pleasures we sit?

cariad

Yes, there's a difference I think. I just learned that I am much more submissive than I thought and actually having kinky sex doesn't have to be a part of it. I had doubts - was I just kinky a bit and felt more comfortable in the submissive role? My gut was telling me no, that there was much more to my submissiveness, but my head was extremely unsure. Well, my gut was right, as usual. (I choose to believe that's how God tells me who/how He wants me to be.)

As far as the spectrum - it's helpful to have some knowledge of where you are today, but be open to moving along that spectrum as you learn more about yourself.

BTW, it's a beautiful day.

[Guest 91108]

I agree with His_J.. being submissive isn't about being kinky .. and I would add it's not always a matter of sex. (( Though the Wolf in me needs and wants them Tied together... it's not a requirement. ))

[Dragon's muse]

The kinky sex is fanfreakingtastic. But it is the non-sexual aspects of the bond that give the kinky sex its meaning. At least that is how it is for us.

[TomOfSweden]

I think it's a problem of definition. Kinky is the umbrella definition of all deviant sexual behaviour. Submissiveness, can be, but doesn't have to be anything sexual. I'm probably just reiterating what already has been said, and everybody already knows. But anyway.

[tessa]

The kinky sex is fanfreakingtastic. But it is the non-sexual aspects of the bond that give the kinky sex its meaning.
Right there! `points` That's it exactly! You said that just like I wanted to, only lots better, muse. :) I'm glad I read through threads before I post my thoughts. Kinda like wearing the same exact outfit to the party...


Submissiveness, can be, but doesn't have to be anything sexual. I'm probably just reiterating what already has been said, and everybody already knows. But anyway.
Ok, this too! Yay for "anyway"! Hey, Tom? Does this same thought apply to Dominants as well? I'm not being sarcastic, in case you're thinking that. It's a serious question.


As far as the spectrum - it's helpful to have some knowledge of where you are today, but be open to moving along that spectrum as you learn more about yourself.
All right, you brilliant people are overwhelming me. Please keep it up?


BTW, it's a beautiful day.
You said it, jeanne. ~huggles~

:wave:

[angelic.zest]

The kinky sex is fanfreakingtastic. But it is the non-sexual aspects of the bond that give the kinky sex its meaning. At least that is how it is for us.

agrees with you wholeheartedly, the submission part of my life is who i am and it continues to grow as the kinky part of my life is something i like doing or have done to me, something that gives me my trills, s*****, and chills..lol..

[TomOfSweden]

Ok, this too! Yay for "anyway"! Hey, Tom? Does this same thought apply to Dominants as well? I'm not being sarcastic, in case you're thinking that. It's a serious question.



What do you mean? Dominance? I've always been a bit bent when it comes to sexual fantasies but I actually don't remember how it all started with me developing the need for sexual domination. I've been told all my life that I'm dominant, and a born leader. Especially by women who where horny for me, so I think I kind of slipped into the dominant sadist role to keep them happy and then made it a part of me. But this transition wasn't conscious, and wasn't so much a change than clarification of my role. As I've said before, I'm a total pervert. I've fantasised about most things all my life, and can probably enjoy quite a range of sexual perversions in any role, not necessarily as a dominant.

As you are well aware Tessa, we all tend to live up to the expectations of our surroundings, and if it doesn't do violence on our core being, then....why not? But IMHO being dominant isn't necessarily a sexual role, just as little as being submissive. It's just personality traits.

[Rhabbi]

There is definitely a difference cariad. I have found myself saying it a few times myself. People often think that because they enjoy bondage, or pain, or some aspect of BDSM that they have to be a Dom/switch/sub and wander through life confused because they do not seem to fit in anywhere. Knowing who and what you are always helps.

On another note, it is actually possible to be Dominant/submissive without being kinky. My focus in a relationship is always on the D/s aspect, and if we get kinky also that is great.

[cadence]

I have been wanting to post a similar question on this topic, as I have been struggling to understand the whole meaning of being submissive and being Dominated.

I have a wild, kinky side, but it is not prevalent in our relationship. My submissive side however is there and I utalize it in any way I can. Being submissive to my boyfriend in a non sexual context, makes me feel better about myself in general. I need to have that dynamic in the relationship, if I didn't it just wouldn't feel right.
In the vanilla world I suppose I would be labeled as a doormat.

I intially felt that if I did not have the kinky sex, I wasn't a submissive.
I explored my kinky side and also discovered that it was not the same unless I was submissive.
It is difficult to put into words as to how or why I feel this way; there is probably no real definative answer to it.

Submission and kinky sex are different entities, but as others have said, combining the two just makes things that much more enjoyable.

[Flaming_Redhead]

I have been wanting to post a similar question on this topic, as I have been struggling to understand the whole meaning of being submissive and being Dominated.

Me too! For me, sex is most enjoyable when I am dominated. I am very submissive in the bedroom and will rarely resist anything even slightly. However, outside the bedroom, I also have a submissive side, though I don't utilize it every chance I get. In fact, I am quite resistant to it. I suppose that makes me a sexual submissive and not a "true" submissive.

[DrGeordie]

Tessa,

I'm with Tom on this one. Dominance can be separated from sex if you want it to be. I can make badlyguidedlittlemis shiver all down her spine in the middle of a pub with one word as long as it's the right word. There are certain little actions that have nothing to do with sex that let her know that she is safe and I've got her. The sex is a whole barrel of fun but there's so much more than that.

cariad,

I'm not convinced it always help to know which box you fit in. I'm not a fan of pigeon holing people since labels tend to be restrictive. If you can use the label but understand that it isn't fixed forever and when the time comes you can leave it behind then fair enough. If none of the labels fit comfortably then don't wear any at all. Just my tuppence worth

DrG

[Ozme52]

Kinky sex v. D/s are definitely different.

Just because we roll BD DS SM and a host of fetishes into a single label, doesn't inexorably link them in meaning.

Oral sex, anal sex, clothing fetishes, cross-dressing, obsession with pregnant women, lactation, incest, etc. etc. etc. are all practiced by non-dominants and non-submissives.

And as others have stated, the need to dominate or submit does not necessarily have to include bondage, discipline (as in impact play,) sadism nor masochism.

[Logic1]

kinkyness is my icing on the proverbial cake.

naah I think Ill just quote Dragon´s muse :
The kinky sex is fanfreakingtastic. But it is the non-sexual aspects of the bond that give the kinky sex its meaning. At least that is how it is for ME

[Sir_Russell]

hmmm kinky sex is in the mind. For me having sex with a sub/slave that is bound and powerless is not kinky it is my norm. Kinky for me might be fucking in a church baptismal pool with or without the congration there.

As a practicing Dom I can be a dominating anytime I choose to be. It doesn't matter if it is business or personal or sexual just who I am. Yet I don't have to be forceful in it which is why I do well selling.

[Hime]

This thread actually makes me feel a lot better about myself. :) Being submissive is important to my identity and the way I feel about my marriage. But today I was looking at a BDSM site with a friend and commenting that I don't know if I could do the things that, say, the Sex And Submission girls do -- I've never been caned or paddled (canes scare me a lot), I'm not very flexible, etc. My husband and I address and think of each other as Master and Pet, but we aren't having extreme kinky sex 24-7. It's good to know that people don't consider us posers or try-hards for that.

[Sir_Russell]

Hime
We all make the Life fit us and our needs. I have done 24 7 and it is hard to impossible to do it the way that the fantasy have it.

The life of M/p is fine and fits if it keeps you connected to your Master or pet and it can be added to as you go along. First thing is M should get several collars so that you have one on at all time.. This collar can be a ring a necklace, a bracelet or anything against your flesh.

He could give you tasks to do such as a favorite of mine, a garterbelt worn under dress or skirt with strips of silk or satin that hang down to the inner thigh puts knots in them for extra stimulation.

If that doesn't keep you connected to him when he is away then nothing will

[Logic1]

I didnt mean kinky as something bad or negative. I meant kinky as something positive as in the things we do Sir Russel. Kinky for me or you surely means something completely different to somebody else.

oh that with the garterbelt with strips of silk sounds just lovely. Gotto remember that one *smiles*

[TomOfSweden]

I just had a little flash of clarity. Maybe I'm the last one on the block but anyway. Nobody wants to be normal when it comes to sex. It's boring. We all think it's boring. We are all looking for that other person who is extra fun, vanilla or not.

The quintessential image of a person with "normal" sexual drives is asexual, right? Maybe this is a cultural thing for Sweden, but I doubt it.

The pressure on society isn't to conform to norms, but on the contrary. To sexually break them, but while at the same time having a surface of detached normality outward. We admire those who have the guts to work out others kinks. It's not hard. We all leave plenty of clues to be found. The reason why people want this is to strengthen the bond between lovers. They will always by default be a little bit special to each other.

The problem isn't that some are vanilla, while others are kinky, but that the scale has an endless amount of degrees. Being vanilla, in other words only means that you are less kinky than people you compare yourself to.

We've had endless debates within the party organising collective that I'm part of, regarding kinkiness. Some have left because they think being kinky is the norm. Having vanilla sex is today's perverts. And some because of the opposite; that people aren't kinky enough.

Does this make sense to anybody?

[Logic1]

sounds about right to me Tom.

having vanilla sex is today´s perverts lool. I loved that.

[Hime]

Hime
We all make the Life fit us and our needs. I have done 24 7 and it is hard to impossible to do it the way that the fantasy have it.

The life of M/p is fine and fits if it keeps you connected to your Master or pet and it can be added to as you go along. First thing is M should get several collars so that you have one on at all time.. This collar can be a ring a necklace, a bracelet or anything against your flesh.

He could give you tasks to do such as a favorite of mine, a garterbelt worn under dress or skirt with strips of silk or satin that hang down to the inner thigh puts knots in them for extra stimulation.

If that doesn't keep you connected to him when he is away then nothing will

Oooh... that's a good idea. :)

We are apparently one the same wavelength, since one of D.'s favorite things is telling me what to wear -- usually something a little skimpier than I'd normally choose. :)

[hikochan]

This is an interesting topic. Does it really matter whether it is kink or lifestyle? What does lifestyle mean anyway? Does that mean you go to events and munches and know the community in your area? Does it mean that you are in your role 24/7? I understand that it doesn't always involve sex, but that seems to be a huge portion of the information you find when looking for bdsm. So why wouldn't someone who enjoys those activities be considered a part of the community? Or maybe I'm misconstruing and they really are a large part of the community, along with the lifestylers, but you are just making a distinction between the two.
Anyway, I hope I made some sense. I'm just curious what defines someone for whom this is truly a lifestyle and not just into the kinky sex for it's own sake.

[Flaming_Redhead]

The only person it matters to is you and, perhaps, to your partner. Lifestyle refers to people who view BDSM as central to their erotic lives. To quote a book I'm reading called "Different Loving" by Gloria G. Brame:


Very generally speaking, two groups of people engage in D&S. First are those who fantasize about D&S and may periodically and casually experiment with it. These individuals add spice to a sexually conventional relationship by engaging in some form of D&S eroticism, such as spanking or roleplaying. The second group comprises those who are primarily and unequivocally aroused by D&S and who actively seek out sympathetic partners and, usually, support as well as education......Our research, however, suggests that the majority of people who engage in D&S belong to the first group.

My best friend is in the first group. She and her husband have sex toys and like to tie each other up and play games. For them, it's just kinky sex. I'm in the second group. While I enjoy the kinky sex, it's not just a game to me. Living without BDSM wouldn't be like going on a diet and not having ice cream. I might be sad about not having ice cream, but it wouldn't drastically affect my emotional well being. BDSM is something I need in my life, and I can't be happy in a vanilla relationship. My best friend who I think is pretty open minded doesn't quite understand it as she made a thoughtless remark to me while we were out dancing, and I was answering a text from my Dom. "I know y'all like to play games and call him Daddy and all that, but he's NOT your Daddy. You don't have to check in with him. Put the damn phone away!" I just gave her a look....and bit my tongue. It's true. I didn't HAVE to. That's the point. I want to. *shakes head* Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble....

[His_blizzard]

The kinky sex is fanfreakingtastic. But it is the non-sexual aspects of the bond that give the kinky sex its meaning. At least that is how it is for us.

You took the words right out of my mouth! It is like that for us as well. If I had to pick between D/s without the kinky BDSM or BDSM without the Dominance and submission the rest of the time, I would pick D/s hands down. My desire to serve my Master is not a sexual desire and most of the time my service to him is not of an erotic nature. Turning over judgment and trusting him to always do what is in my best interest, and in return working daily to be the best submissive I can be to him, is what defines my submission. For us, BDSM (or kinky sex) although an important part of our union, is the icing on the cake. Just my two copper tarns worth... ~blizz~

[hikochan]

Flaming redhead and blizz - that helps alot! I really should check out some of these books. I was thinking about ordering myself Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns - mostly because the title cracks me up. :) I've heard it's a pretty good one though. Different Loving is also on my list!

[His_blizzard]

Order it as soon as you can. I loved it. A lot of very down to earth advice and very very funny as well. I think you will enjoy it. "Peace" ~blizz~

[Logic1]

Does that mean I need that book too blizzard? :)

[tessa]

As you are well aware Tessa, we all tend to live up to the expectations of our surroundings, and if it doesn't do violence on our core being, then....why not? But IMHO being dominant isn't necessarily a sexual role, just as little as being submissive. It's just personality traits.
You answered my question, perfectly, Tom. Exactly what I wanted to have insight into. It all made sense to me. Thanks. :)


Tessa,

I'm with Tom on this one. Dominance can be separated from sex if you want it to be. I can make badlyguidedlittlemis shiver all down her spine in the middle of a pub with one word as long as it's the right word. There are certain little actions that have nothing to do with sex that let her know that she is safe and I've got her. The sex is a whole barrel of fun but there's so much more than that.
And more insight! And I understand this so well. Possibly surprising, but I do. Thanks, DrGeordie, for taking the time to address this with me.


hmmm kinky sex is in the mind. For me having sex with a sub/slave that is bound and powerless is not kinky it is my norm.
I really appreciate the way you worded this, Sir Russell. It helped a few things "click" into place. ~hugs~


Kinky for me might be fucking in a church baptismal pool with or without the congration there.
I appreciate this for so many other reasons. ;)


Being submissive is important to my identity and the way I feel about my marriage.
This is a real gem of insight right here. Wow. So simple, yet says it all.

And what blizz said about icing...:hubba: Oh...wait. ~re-reads her post~ Ohhhhhhh. Well, I still agree with all she said, just now it's in an entirely different context. :o

You are all just so fascinating to read. :wave:

ps. ~waves cookies at Red~ :p

[Guest 91108]

Wonders how many are here believing they are submissive when they really just seek more kink?
Oh, And the same applies to Doms .. Are they here to not so much to be a Dominant as they are to seek kinkier sex? or do they seek to be Dominant ?
Is it all about the sex?

Is that inline with the thread topic? Cause I think it could go further than the posts I've read over.....

[Flaming_Redhead]

Wonders how many are here believing they are submissive when they really just seek more kink?

Is it all about the sex?

*waves hand widly in the air* Me me me me me me me!!!!

Oh...damn...wait a minute....I read that wrong. *ggls*

It's not all about the sex, but for me, sex is a big part of it. I'll be the first to point out that I'm a greedy bitch who wants to have her Black Forest cake and Ben&Jerry's Phish Food ice cream and eat it, too. Sure, I want....no.....need a dominant man in my life, but if the sex is just mediocre, I won't be...satisfied.

Btw, I do believe I'm submissive. What?!?! Don't look at me like that! I AM!

[Guest 91108]

Smiles.. thanks Red.

You are definitely a sub ..even if you are a fiesty sassy one.

[Sir_Russell]

Been a while since I was here. This I know only for me since it is the only mind I can read. I AM DOMINANT with or without sex, I can't remember a time in my life that I wasn't. I find that in all most every aspect of life people look to me to lead, direct or find a solution.
All ways the leader of any sports team I was on even when I wasn't the best athlete.

For me it is who I am and I have lived in it long enough to not have to prove it each minute.

[Platonicus]

I do believe there is a siginificant difference between simply having an interest in kinky sex and the lifestyle. Actually even some vanillas at times have a taste for kinky sex. To me the lifestyle encompasses so much more than that singular, albiet enjoyable aspect. I have experienced some very deep and meaningful experiences within the lifestyle that didn't involve anything sexual. Whether we understand ourselves to be Dominant, submissive or Switch, I think it is important that we grasp what we are and how that nature contributes to who we are if we wish to consider ourselves a part of the lifestyle.

[thrall]

So for simplicity sake......

I think .....kink......is something you enjoy.

the lifestyle.........moves you from your soul.

[Gr1m'sGirl]

I honestly don't think I could be happy in a relationship where I did not have a Dominant. I've always felt like something was missing when I was in relationships with those not interested in D/s.

[~faerie~]

So for simplicity sake......

I think .....kink......is something you enjoy.

the lifestyle.........moves you from your soul.


I agree. The kink was fun but just not satisfying enough. Something was missing.

[skippy1980]

This thread happened to jump out at me. i just joined as a member today, and i can say from my past expierences within the lifestyle, that i was unfortunate enough to have three different "Dommes" that only wanted control in the bedroom. i was twenty yrs. old with the first "Domme", and was misguided due to her wants in the bedroom, but having no controll of me outside the bedroom. i was young and with my second Domme (She actually wanted a 24/7 live-in), i went into that relationship, thought i knew alot more than what i did, and was shown the door by Her very quickly because i thought i had more expierence than what i did in the lifestyle. i've since had two other "Dommes" that, also, unfortunately, wanted only play in the bedroom. It's now seven yrs. later for me, and luckily, with my second Domme, i know now what is nessessary outside of the bedroom...learnig how a Domme wants Her meals prepared, learning how to lace/tie Her shoes/boots, ect, learning just the basic of how She wants things done in Her personal and/or private life. On a Personal note for myself, i have only known one stretch of happiness in my life since my mother passed away when i was 13, and it was with that second Domme...Giving up the control i had over myself to Her...it was the most amazing thing i have ever bee a part of...i honestly feel screwed over by the other three "Dommes"(especially the first one), for giving me insufficient knowledge of the 24/7 lifestyle, and me losing the person that has made me the happiest i've felt in the last fifteen yrs. Don't get me wrong...Kink can be fun...but it isn't the same as the lifestyle.

[annie]

This thread happened to jump out at me. i just joined as a member today, and i can say from my past expierences within the lifestyle, that i was unfortunate enough to have three different "Dommes" that only wanted control in the bedroom. i was twenty yrs. old with the first "Domme", and was misguided due to her wants in the bedroom, but having no controll of me outside the bedroom. i was young and with my second Domme (She actually wanted a 24/7 live-in), i went into that relationship, thought i knew alot more than what i did, and was shown the door by Her very quickly because i thought i had more expierence than what i did in the lifestyle. i've since had two other "Dommes" that, also, unfortunately, wanted only play in the bedroom. It's now seven yrs. later for me, and luckily, with my second Domme, i know now what is nessessary outside of the bedroom...learnig how a Domme wants Her meals prepared, learning how to lace/tie Her shoes/boots, ect, learning just the basic of how She wants things done in Her personal and/or private life. On a Personal note for myself, i have only known one stretch of happiness in my life since my mother passed away when i was 13, and it was with that second Domme...Giving up the control i had over myself to Her...it was the most amazing thing i have ever bee a part of...i honestly feel screwed over by the other three "Dommes"(especially the first one), for giving me insufficient knowledge of the 24/7 lifestyle, and me losing the person that has made me the happiest i've felt in the last fifteen yrs. Don't get me wrong...Kink can be fun...but it isn't the same as the lifestyle.

Well said.... and makes perfect sense. There is a difference for some and as long as they can determine that difference for their happiness that is what matters.... Hope you find again what makes you happy.

[Ruby]

Welcome Skippy!

Ditto what Annie said.

---

Sir Russell,

I can't imagine you as a submissive.

I imagine that you'd be the alpha/dominant male in any pack or lifestyle you choose.

---

Thanks to everyone who's given been active in this thread. It's a great read.

[skippy1980]

...and thank Y/you all for having me.

[Sir_Russell]

welcome skippy you will find the one you need and hopefully will find your joy in serving her, test her enough to be sure she is what you want and need then put that away to live a joyful life.

[Sir_Russell]

This is too good a thread to let die

For me I enjoy both but desire it to be a lifestyle that only the needs of the real world intrude on.

I must work and normally can't act the Dom with any of the ladies I meet there, actually that would be bad manners too. Since at the moment I am subless I find it hard to live the life. I am torn currently with pangs from missing having a lovely bottom over my knee waiting and wanting a spanking to having a lovely kneel at my feet and using no hands freeing then sucking on my cock.

The Life is what we make it, and I hope that soon I will find the submissive that understands the joy she can have by being mine. That I will not live a life of constant strife no matter how beautiful she is or how good she is at sex. The life is about peace and joy when done by a willing cooperative couple.

[Isabelle90]

This thread was one of the first ones that I read after joining. It made me do some real soul searching.

Here's what I came up with:I didn't enjoy sex until it got kinky. Didn't have my first orgasm until I'd had fantasies about D/s relationships. I'm going with the lifestyle route:)