View Full Version : BDSM before and after the Internet
More of a nerdy question than a sexy one, but:
I notice that a lot of the time when people talk about BDSM, they jump straight to talking about online relationships and communities as the norm. It seems like a lot of people are involved online and not at all in real life, and that a lot of those who have "IRL" relationships originally connected through the internet (my husband and I did, although we didn't start practicing BDSM until we were living together).
My question is, what was "the Scene" like before the internet? How was it different? Better? Worse? As a spoiled young'un (I'm 22 and first logged on at maybe 7 years old), it's hard for me to imagine anything without the all-important Series of Tubes. :p
Ocean_Soul
09-04-2007, 09:19 PM
Two words.
It sucked.
Logic1
09-05-2007, 04:00 AM
I better let older people than me answer this but my guess would be that it wasnt very easy to get in touch with other people with your interests and likes.
Uncle_Ed
09-05-2007, 04:13 AM
I better let older people than me answer this but my guess would be that it wasnt very easy to get in touch with other people with your interests and likes.
Ah. That would be me, then.
It was indeed difficult. There were numerous magazines, of course, and clubs. Both could work-but as always, one needed to be careful. I imagine that the scene from a sub's point of view must have been truly terrifying.
I'm not what you might call a small guy-so I have been in some places where perhaps others may not dare to venture. I will say that in my experience, the scene here in the UK has been very friendly and I have had some great times-but I have as daft an outlook in real life as I do in here-so get by on my sense of humour and of the rdiiculous.
I have never been taken that seriously-and I am grateful that I seem to keep people amused.
But-back to the point. I have dated a few girls in my time-and simply told them of my preferences. The general reaction was one of deep interest and willingness to try...I have been very lucky.
Logic1
09-05-2007, 05:46 AM
Ah. That would be me, then.
But-back to the point. I have dated a few girls in my time-and simply told them of my preferences. The general reaction was one of deep interest and willingness to try...I have been very lucky.
yes you are one of the persons I thought about there ;)
and yes honesty seems to be working for me too.
If you make a good impression in the first date or 2, then most girls I find are atleast willing to try some fun in the hay if you get to that point in a relationship.
Rhabbi
09-05-2007, 07:55 AM
Two words.
It sucked.
Very accurate description. I honestly believe that if the internet was not around I would still be a frustrated vanilla more than anything.
I better let older people than me answer this but my guess would be that it wasnt very easy to get in touch with other people with your interests and likes.
And it could be dangerous. Here in the US it was, and still is, illegal in a lot of places, unlike the UK. One of the biggest concerns we had in making new contacts was screening out police and FBI moles. My FBI files contained enough interesting information that I was denied a security clearance that I needed, apparently they thought I would be blackmailed by some foreign government to reveal stuff that you could find with some diligent research even then. And one party I went to was actually raided shortly after I decided to leave, and a friend of mine was arrested.
My advice to you youngsters is to be glad that you have the internet to explore things.
Ocean_Soul
09-05-2007, 11:54 AM
Heh, great allocation of resources. FBI sent in to deal with people who dress in leather and moan with pleasure while spanking each other.
Rhabbi
09-05-2007, 12:13 PM
What do you expect from the Federal Bureau of Incompetence? After all, Hoover liked to crossdress.
Logic1
09-05-2007, 12:42 PM
I sure am glad I live in the age of the internet.
It sure sounds like the past sucked in the US for us BDSM lovers
gagged_Louise
09-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Funny thing is, J. Edgar Hoover may have been paranoid about gays and perverts but he himself was a gay and closet crossdresser. Check out this astonishing portrait of Hoover as Louis XIV of France, wearing his court Mistress' wig and panties (the main things about the painting are modelled on a famous court portrait of the Sun King at Versailles, but there are definite transvestite traits)
http://dearauntnettie.com/museum/museum-j-edgar.htm
(wigs of course were worn by men too in the 17th century, but the shoes (pumps!) and leggings are definitely female, and Hoover posed in all this gear...) :D
John56{vg}
09-05-2007, 01:53 PM
even though I had many fantasies and saw some magazines, moving to San Francisco when I was 21 allowed me to see that I could fulfill some of my fantasies. It was 1978 when a woman, with no prompting, came up to me and introduced herself to me in this way.
"Hi, my name is Karen, I am into S&M" You just gotta love San Fran. We became friends (buit sadly never played together). I also found several clubs in the area. Luckily San Fran was pretty wide open sexually. So it actually wasn't as terrifying and disruptive as my friend Rhabbi's experiences.
If I was still in Texas, Iprobably would have just had the urges and never experienced them.
hikochan
09-05-2007, 03:09 PM
even though I had many fantasies and saw some magazines, moving to San Francisco when I was 21 allowed me to see that I could fulfill some of my fantasies. It was 1978 when a woman, with no prompting, came up to me and introduced herself to me in this way.
"Hi, my name is Karen, I am into S&M" You just gotta love San Fran. We became friends (buit sadly never played together). I also found several clubs in the area. Luckily San Fran was pretty wide open sexually. So it actually wasn't as terrifying and disruptive as my friend Rhabbi's experiences.
If I was still in Texas, I probably would have just had the urges and never experienced them.
LOL Yes! SF is quite the place to be. I was sitting on a pool table in some sleazy dive bar about ten years ago when this guy actually crawled up to me and begged to lick my boots. Gotta love the city :)
John56{vg}
09-05-2007, 03:14 PM
hikochan,
I moved down to L.A. ten years ago to get into acting after living in San Fran for 20 years. I miss that city like an old lover. It was so great to spend my young adulthood there. The most tolerant city in the U.S.
I was walking down Polk Street near O'Farell one day and a couple walked around the corner. The woman with her tits exposed was being led on a leash on the busy night streets of the city and not many people took notice.
Gotta love that.
Sir_Russell
09-05-2007, 07:27 PM
Before the net it was tough and if you lived in a bible belt area even more so. Finding a sub meant you had to study women and find one that showed signs. Then study her closely and build trust first before you even broached the subject. Even if she was really a sub at heart and mind she might very well refuse and be extremely upset. It was very hard but at least it was real.
Ocean_Soul
09-05-2007, 07:41 PM
Before the net it was tough and if you lived in a bible belt area even more so. Finding a sub meant you had to study women and find one that showed signs. Then study her closely and build trust first before you even broached the subject. Even if she was really a sub at heart and mind she might very well refuse and be extremely upset. It was very hard but at least it was real.
pretty much one of my main issues with finding a subbie without the internet. After all the work I have to shout "next" and find someone else.
TomOfSweden
09-05-2007, 10:38 PM
I still haven't done any Internet dating or had any on-line relationships. But Internet still changed me drastically in that there suddenly came information allowing me to stop being a moronic bastard idiot Master. The kind of Master I warn subs about here. If the library has existed a wee bit earlier the world would have a few much happier subs in the world.
I've always had a knack for finding subbies anywhere. A picked up quite a masochistic beast at a buss stop once. My first wife. My slave now is my first slave I've found through the BDSM community. Which is a truth with modification. It's a tad more complicated since she was officially out of it when we met.
I couldn't imagine a world without Internet any longer. It's not just being connected but reading about anything at any age. Where the only limit is what you are curious about. I fucking hate people trying to save their children from information.
Reading what some people are writing here I suggest moving away from the Bible belt. Beside probably being spiritually corrupting, it's not good for sex. Sex is important. Especially pre-marital. It's easy to bring up the subject of BDSM here. Everybody knows about it and everybody no matter what age have thought about if and what they like about it.
jeanne
09-06-2007, 05:57 AM
It was very hard but at least it was real.
That struck a chord with me, Sir_Russell. I've been told that some are better at online relationships than others...perhaps the distance makes it easier for them. For myself, it would make it much harder - harder to submit, harder to obey - without the "hands-on" :rolleyes: part of it. I guess I'm showing my age, since I didn't grow up with a computer and a separate life on the Internet, so just have no interest/inclination in the "online only relationship" direction.
Yep, I'm a closet Luddite,
jeanne
Logic1
09-06-2007, 06:33 AM
I feel just like you j, That real life is way easier to get trust and the "hands on part" of it than online.
Online goes just so far even with cams and IM and sms/mms.
jeanne
09-06-2007, 06:50 AM
I feel just like you j, That real life is way easier to get trust and the "hands on part" of it than online.
Online goes just so far even with cams and IM and sms/mms.
Logic1 - I've been told that I'm very much a "touch and feel" submissive - I take that as a compliment. :)
Reading what some people are writing here I suggest moving away from the Bible belt. Beside probably being spiritually corrupting, it's not good for sex. Sex is important. Especially pre-marital. It's easy to bring up the subject of BDSM here. Everybody knows about it and everybody no matter what age have thought about if and what they like about it.
I have actually had some of the best sex of my life in the Bible Belt. My husband is a very kinky Southern boy. :)
hikochan
09-06-2007, 01:04 PM
I like the internet simply for information gathering. I really don't have much interest in online relationships beyond what we might have in the forums. I originally found this place because I was looking for the community in my area. Found them! :) But I also like this place for the sharing and information. It's always good to get a broader view of what it's like out there in the wild. LOL
I like the internet simply for information gathering. I really don't have much interest in online relationships beyond what we might have in the forums. I originally found this place because I was looking for the community in my area. Found them! :) But I also like this place for the sharing and information. It's always good to get a broader view of what it's like out there in the wild. LOL
Yeah. Before finding BDSM stuff online, I knew what I liked to fantasize about, but I couldn't really explain why, and a lot of the time I felt guilty and weird about it. The online community has been really helpful in letting me take control of my own desires and understand how to safely and responsibly enjoy them. :)
Logic1
09-06-2007, 01:46 PM
Logic1 - I've been told that I'm very much a "touch and feel" submissive - I take that as a compliment. :)
You should. I am very much a "touch and feel" Dom.
You should. I am very much a "touch and feel" Dom.
I don't know who wouldn't want to "touch and feel" your avatar. ;)
TomOfSweden
09-06-2007, 10:49 PM
I have actually had some of the best sex of my life in the Bible Belt. My husband is a very kinky Southern boy. :)
Yeah, I find that incredibly unsurprising actually. I think all humans get turned on by breaking taboo's. With strong ethical rules there's more to break. But then again, sex is about much more than the physical, and needs lot's of insights. how can we get those insights in a culture where we can't talk about them. Thank god for Internet.
edit: And with god I off-course mean Tim Berners-Lee :)
gagged_Louise
09-06-2007, 11:20 PM
Anyone interested in passions, taboos and forgiveness in the Bible Belt should see Robert Duvall's brilliant film The Apostle where Duvall enacts a Southern Baptist Reverend, exuding erotic vibes from his lectern, until he kills his wife's lover in a fit of rage, has to flee from his old place and starts up a new mission in a run-down town deep in Louisiana. Amazing scenes both from the chapels where he's a revered father figure in the first part of the movie and from the swampland town where he starts his own thing.
Duvall wrote, directed and starred in the movie - I'm told many believing Christians down south abhored it, they really should have seen it gives a sympathetic, nuanced picture of Christianity as a force in the Belt. I saw it years ago, should have watched it again last night at a one-off theatre screening but had to cancel.
Sir_Russell
09-09-2007, 04:55 PM
The good thing about the internet is that it is much easier to find your counter part but it is also much harder to train them since they have a head full of fantasies that can't be done safely in the real world.
Slade
09-09-2007, 07:24 PM
The funny thing about the internet is that it can be safer in many ways but there is also a lot of trust that must go into it as well where you do not originally meet the person face to face and thus able to gauge them so easily. It does give you easy access to so many sites and possiblities of meeting people and learn so much more than was possible, you do not need to worry about getting books or trying in vain to find a place by asking. Now you only need to search around online, it makes things so easy than compared to before.
It also allows those who are not sure if this is the life for them to experiment and test out their boundries in the safety of their own home without fear or worry. A huge plus where most people are concerned.
Rhabbi
09-10-2007, 09:11 AM
The good thing about the internet is that it is much easier to find your counter part but it is also much harder to train them since they have a head full of fantasies that can't be done safely in the real world.
Well said Russell. I have come across subs that wanted to do things that they had read about that defy the laws of physics.
hikochan
09-11-2007, 07:58 PM
LOL There is a HUGE difference between fantasy and reality! It's normal to fantasize about things that you would never actually do either because it's impossible or because it's just something you wouldn't actually do. And, really, I would be afraid of playing with someone who didn't know the difference.
nk_lion
09-11-2007, 09:39 PM
Life before the internet?!?!
Lol, I'm still young enough to have been the first generation of kids exposed to it, I can't imagine how anything ran before it, forget bdsm.
But on a more serious note, the internet has truely affected my life, for better or worse. I never in my life imagined even a possibility of a somewhat bdsm type relationship, and now, it seems more attainable.
Alas, there are still huge restrictions there for those who are from specific backgrounds, so the internet is not the ultimate solution, but it definitly helps.
TomOfSweden
09-11-2007, 10:35 PM
LOL There is a HUGE difference between fantasy and reality! It's normal to fantasize about things that you would never actually do either because it's impossible or because it's just something you wouldn't actually do. And, really, I would be afraid of playing with someone who didn't know the difference.
Throughout my life I've met probably hundreds of girls who go on for ages about how much they habitually fantasize about the most bizarre sexual perverted acts, but would never go through with it for a variety of reasons. This has made me conclude that people, or at least women are either into BDSM or they just aren't all that interested in sex at all.
I'd rather have a sub who wanted things done to her that couldn't be done safely in the real world, than a dom who wanted to do those things to me.