Kushiel's Dart, Kushiel's Chosen, Kushiel's Avatar

[Morrighan]

Beautifully written trilogy by Jacqueline Carey that was my first honest experience with the concept of dominance and submission, and pain with pleasure. It's partly reimagined history, and she twined the protagonist's sexual needs beautifully into the main culture. I highly recommend it.

Has anyone else here read any one of them?

[~d~]

funny you should ask.....


i left my copy laying about the house and my 20 something year old son found it... he is now wearing the tattoo.... *grin* without the flower head itself.... from shoulder to shoulder... to the small of his back....lmao... i wonder what he's going to think if he ever decides to actually read the book...*cheeky grin*

[Morrighan]

I'm getting a tattoo down my back like that. I started with the finial at the top, though, and I', working my way down, inch by inch. It's not Phedre's tattoo, but that's where I got the idea. Unfortunately, I don't have her tolerance for pain...needles jabbing into your spine really, really hurts.

I have never met anyone else that read it, which is funny, given how popular I know it was/is. Of course, most of my friends don't read much of anything. A huge failing, in my mind.

Did you read the whole series, or the first book?

[~d~]

just the first... it was a gift from a friend who was totally enthralled with the entire series...

I have to agree though... it is extremely well written...

(*grin* he got his tattoo in one sitting...lol.. and it was his first...)

[Morrighan]

That was my first tattoo--the finial was about 2 inches in diameter and had a Celtic cross in the middle. It hurt like a son of a bitch, excuse my language.

If you haven't finished the series, you definitely should. The last book is the most edgy, but the author resolves all to everyone's satisfaction. Which is something I appreciate...I hate it when a writer builds up a relationship and destroys it. It robs the reader of their happy ending, and as reading is supposed to be escapist (or at least fiction is) it's a huge let down.

I don't know where that came from, but...read the rest of the trilogy. I don't want to describe too much; it's like telling you the end of a movie.

[Curtis]

I notice that, over in Fox's pony girl thread, kittenfemme mentioned Kushiel's Dart. You might try contacting her.

[slave ruthie]

i've just finished Kushiel's Dart and was really bowled over by this fabulous book - can't wait to read the next 2 books in the trilogy! i wrote to Jacqueline Carey to tell her how much i loved her characters, specially Phèdre nó Delaunay, and she kindly wrote back :) - in the face of such immense talent i know my efforts at story writing have a looooooooong way to go before they might approach her standard lol

her site is at http://www.jacquelinecarey.com

love & respect

ruthie

XXXXXX;)

[cyndylu]

Originally posted by slave ruthie
:) - in the face of such immense talent i know my efforts at story writing have a looooooooong way to go before they might approach her standard lol ....
[/B]

sl!
You are an absolutely marvelous writer - i've read everything you've submitted to this site - even the topics that don't do anything for me and thoroughly enjoyed your writing skills and style. You are THERE as a writer as far as i'm concerned.

[slave ruthie]

omg cyndylu...that's so nice! i'm blushing now!

there's a yahoo group about Kushiel too at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sangorie/


love n hugggggggggggs

ruthie[Phil]

XXXXXX;)

www.slaveregister.com/763339

[Morrighan]

On Jacqueline Carey's website, she has pictures of people who went out and got Phedre's tattoo. There's also news about the new series she's working on, centered around Imriel de la Courcel. This woman reads my mind, I swear--I was hoping she would start a trilogy about Imriel.

[Finding_Fantasy]

Those look like they mightbe an interestng read. I migh have to take a look at them sometime.

[slave ruthie]

Finding_Fantasy, Ma'am - i don't think You will be disappointed :)

with love & respect

ruthie[Phil]

XXXXXX;)

[Finding_Fantasy]

Thanks, ruthie, though I am not a Ma'am. Just a little ol' submissive that does not conform to internet rules. :)

I always like a good read. I also like the cover art. That is the kind of erotic pictures I like, art not porn. The cover alone compells me to read it.

[kittenfemme]

I love, love, love, love, loved Kushiel's Dart (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0765342987/qid=1079212495/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/103-5194545-0819033?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). I liked Kushiel's Chosen (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0765345048/qid=1079212495/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/103-5194545-0819033?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) as well. I nearly hated Kushiel's Avatar (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0765347539/qid=1079212495/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-5194545-0819033?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) though. It seemed to move from the series' political intrigue and kink tainted adventure to grandiose religious quest. I liked Carey's recreated cultures and religions (and how she beautifully twisted many of today's leading faiths to poke fun) but turning Phedre from someone who occasionally felt the influence of her pantheon to a complete tool of her chosen deities bugged me.

But the first half of Kushiel's Dart was SOOOO delicious. Melisande! *much purring* Sweet Mother Earth, I'm sill in lust with that character.

I found an autographed copy of Dart and gave it to one of my lovers... the same lady who introduced me to the book, as a matter of fact.

I have a line from that book as my signature in several other forums. "Not all that yields is weak." I noticed you've something similar Morrighan. Love it. As for the tat, I had a black widow inked across the small of my back and cried my eyes out while it was done. I'd love to see yours Morrighan.

And a new series about Imriel? I hope we get to see more of his mother's clan.

[kittenfemme]

I noticed JQ put up a page for a new book, Banewreacker (http://www.jacquelinecarey.com/banewreaker.htm), as well. It almost sounds like a re-done LotR from the blurb.

[Morrighan]

My tattoo's not done yet; I'm going a few inches at a time. Tattoos are EXPENSIVE. The new Imriel trilogy is in the works, but no ETA yet. Carey is releasing another book though, I think this fall, which is called "Banewreaker." A "Lord of the Rings" type quest told from the bad guy's point of view. Should be interesting.

Morrighan

[kittenfemme]

Expensive? LOL! Yep, it's your first ink all right. ;) So we don't get piccies of the work in progress?

[Morrighan]

Once I'm settled into my apartment and all my gadgets are hooked back up, I promise I'll scan some more pictures. :p

Morrighan

[Duetta]

Okay, I've been tempted enough now, just ordered all three in the triology! I hope you're happy making a poor student use all her money on books, when she should be saving them to more needful things.... ;)

They better be good!!

Duetta

[Morrighan]

You're talking to a poor airman, and yes, they are definitely worth it. :D The first one is kind of slow, in the interests of building the culture sufficiently, but definitely a good and fascinating read. Melisande, the villainess, is intriguing, but I have the world's biggest crush on Joscelin. Love a man who knows how to handle a sword.

Morrighan

[slave ruthie]

well, i haven't got my copies of the 2nd & 3rd books yet but the 1st was one of the very few books where i got to the end and promptly started reading from the beginning again!

i mentioned the Kushiel trilogy to a dear Friend who edits a well-known umm adult mag (it tries to be more than kinky porn pics and to appeal to both sexes). He ordered all 3 books immediately, so maybe Jacqueline Carey might become more known if He reviews the series...

Phil initially dismissed it as a romantic BDSM historical novel aimed at submissive women but i discovered Him reading it "to find out why you liked it so much" LOLOL - now i haveto wait to get it back again!

love & respect

ruthie

XXXXXX;)

[Duetta]

Got the books to day! Damn it!

They sent only the second and third!!!!!! Apparently the first was out of stock...

Now what am I to do? Wait? I'm the very impatient type, and even more so concerning books. So now I have two books on the desk, tempting me, daring me to just browse in them a bit, teasing me....

:mad:

Duetta

[Morrighan]

One word, Duetta: library. Oh course, if I were you, I would've lost all patience and began immediately on the second one.

Morrighan

[slave ruthie]

when the parcel arrived from Amazon with the 2nd & 3rd books, i found myself almost wishing i didn't have to open it - i so dearly wanted to read them and knew it meant i would finish them and the magic of the first time you hear a story would be over...

waht can i say? i smiled, i laughed, i wept, i sighed, i DEVOURED Kushiel's Chosen and there are very very few books that make me want to turn to the first page immediately and start reading them again. and then there was one more book left...Kushiel's Avatar

this book was vast and soem might be tempted to lose interest in the first few opening chapters - please continue to read and you'll find a tale that i think will become a classic as more and more readers discover Jacqueline Carey and marvel at her craft. i read the last page half an hour ago and i'm still blinking away the tears, still smiling in the way that makes my Beloved Master Phil ask me if i'm alright lol...and i feel VERY alright, glowing with the bittersweet knowledge that these three books - Kushiel's Dart, Kushiel's Chosen & Kushiel's Avatar - have joined that tiny collection in my library of stories that are truly special

i think you will find soemthing in her books whether Y/you are male or female, young or old, Dominant or submissive, Master or slave, BDSM or Vanilla...and i respectfully defy A/any reader not to feel at least a tear forming as you read - to do otherwise would be inhuman.

thank You, Jacqueline Carey, for sharing Phèdre nó Delaunay with me - i will cherish her in my heart

with love & respect

ruthie[Phil]
XXXXXX;)
www.slaveregister.com/763339

[Morrighan]

I know exactly what you mean, Slave Ruthie--I reread Kushiel's Avatar a couple days ago and was still tearing up at the end--over their love for Imriel, and the sadness of saying goodbye to Hyacinthe. It's going to be a long time before she gets to the Imriel trilogy--the sequel to Banewreaker will be Godslayer, and she's not finished either one. For now, I'll just have to keep rereading them until I have them memorized.

I'm wondering if and how they would make a movie of this--the scope would be breathtaking, and if they did it well, the movie would be Oscar-worthy. I don't think the sex would get in the way on this one, either; it could be hinted at rather than shown in most cases. Ah, well, the book is always a million times better than the movie, and I wouldn't want to risk having Hollywood break my heart with a bad movie.

Morrighan

[slave ruthie]

ohh Morrigan, how could soemthing like this EVER be well portrayed on a screen? yes, the stories are vivid and the landscapes are breathtaking...soem of the sexuality could be hinted at but there are things in the books that no US-controlled film studio in the current American pseudo-puritanical climate would DARE to even hint at - perhaps a French or other European company might try...but how could the inner turmoil of the heroine, her dilemmas, her hopes, her dreams be portrayed?

dear Morrigan, Jacquelin Carey has painted such depth and detail that i've clearly seen in my mind waht she wrote - like you, i know i'll be re-reading the three books until they have been worn out and need replacing lol and each time i hope to see a little more that i missed the first time round...

for waht its worth, Phil has been reading the Avatar most of this morning and when i offered Him a cup of coffee, He said "Shhhh" and didn't lift His eyes from the book lolol...so i'll have to wait before i can read it again (aiiiieee!!!)

with love & respect

ruthie
XXXXXX;)
www.slaveregister.com/763339

[Morrighan]

You're probably right about the movie, Slave Ruthie, but it's always so tempting to imagine, isn't it? I couldn't even think of actors that could do this justice, and there is a lot of questionable material that wouldn't go over well in America. Most importantly, as Carey herself said, "an openly masochistic heroine is controversial, but it's such an important part of her character that it could not possibly be done without." Or something to that affect.

Were you at all disappointed in Kushiel's Avatar? I wasn't, but I've heard that complaint from others, and not just in this forum. My feeling was that there are only so many times that Ysandre's throne could be threatened, and Phedre saves the country, before it would be repetitive. Religious quest--yes, on some levels, but how else could Carey have freed Hyacinthe? And it introduced Imriel's character beautifully, I thought. It would have been disappointing to simply run across him somewhere in Terre d'Ange and frog-march him off to the Queen.

There's a book that Carey used for research: A Dictionary of Angels, which is absolutely FASCINATING. I read some of it, and I never knew there were so many or that they were so different.

And another book that Carey wrote, which is out of print, which is the equivalent of the D'Angeline Bible: the story of Elua and his Companions. I've seen a picture of this book, but they only made so many copies and they're all sold out. I'm hoping against hope that they reprint. That book would be nice to have simply for beauty's sake. We ought to start a petition. :D

Morrighan

P.S. From Carey's own website, an excerpt from her blog (sort of):

So, I'm entering the final stretch on Book One of the Imriel Trilogy -- and no, I haven't chosen a title yet. Of course, with big books like these that means I still have a couple hundred pages to go. But it's at a point where I've got lots of things in motion, and I find myself laying awake in the middle of the night, plotting and strategizing. In the grand scheme of things, I know what happens, but there are always spots where there are a few different ways it could play out. I have to play them over and over in my mind to decide which one truly feels right.

dated this May. God, I can't wait!

[Curtis]

Okay, now going officially off-topic.

I have "A Dictionary of Angels", and it IS fascinating, but it's also frustrating, for two reasons: First, so much of it contradicts itself (the order of precedence of the angels, which ones serve which functions, which ones are 'really' demons or fallen angels, etc.); Second, a lot of the information comes from relatively modern fiction rather than from 'ancient' or 'scholarly' sources. Just because Shakespeare invents an angel, or invents a personality for one, doesn't make it so. He couldn't get his history right, so why would he be an authority on the divine?

I have the same problem with my three Arthurian encyclopaedias. Each draws from different source material, but all of them are 'contaminated' by references to T.H. White, Tennyson and other 'modern' writers. I don't think anything written after maybe 1300 (or possibly 1400) should be considered for inclusion.

One interesting thing you learn from "A Dictionary of Angels" is that there are vanishingly few female angels (according to some authorities, none). Another is that people don't become angels after they die; that happened only two or three times in 'history', and was remarkable when it did. A third would be that angels and humans interbreed. In fact, the human race as it exists today is primarily descended from the interbreeding of angels with the daughters of Adam (unless those were the humans who were wiped out by the flood). There's also an entry for Adam's first wife, Lilith. A very useful book.

Sorry for the diversion.

[slave ruthie]

i was thinking about waht you said, Morrighan...and i was very satisfied with the third book because it completes the pattern set out particularly in Kushiel's Chosen without repeating it. perhaps it is a bit more mystical but i didn't feel like we were going over old ground. in fact, i found the last book of the trilogy much deeper and darker than the first two and the ending was so bittersweet that i found myself smiling with tears tricking down my cheeks just hugging the book when it was all doen (and yes, i AM very romantic and it might be unfashionable but that's how i am lol)

i don't want to be soppy here but for me, there was such an overwhelming presence of LOVE in the books - maybe i connected with them because i know that a BDSM lifestyle doesn't contradict the presence of Love in a D/s relationship and here is a writer who can truly express it. i struggle and fumble in my attempts to portray this in my stories...how can i not be moved and awed by Jacqueline Carey's skill? She has raised up to the highest stature a humble "whore's unwanted get" and shown how there is strength and beauty in the lowliest of us. Repeatedly, she takes weak and vulnerable people and brings them to glory. Her craft lies in making her stories uplifting without being too moral or cloyingly sweet. The characters are flawed, filled with doubts, they make mistakes, they stumble...they are so human.

So yes, the third book is worthy of the first two and if ppl don't bother to read it i think they will have missed the point of Phèdre nó Delaunay's life...

with love & respect

ruthie
XXXXXX;)
www.slaveregister.com/763339

p.s. sorry for spelling your name incorrectly, Morrighan!

[kittenfemme]

I just got a note from Amazon. Thankfully it didn't go into my spam junk box. It seems that Banewreaker (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0765305216/ref%3Dpe%5Fsnp%5F216/103-4754702-9861460) is available.

[vistana]

I absolutely love this series...I'm actually on my third copy of Kushiel's Dart.
Her characterizations are vivid, as is her portrayal of a several very interesting societies, and every book just got...bigger...

Kushiels Avatar was the most epic, the characters were more frightening, and more real...it made me cry, laugh, wince, chew my fingernails...

Joscelin, quite possibly the most gorgeous man I've ever read...Carey is very very good at conveying beauty...and the scene in Avatar, after the fish... I cried because of how beautiful it was.

And Melisande was just marvellous...she disapointed me in the third book, Melisande without several layers of plot surrounding her just isn't the Melisande I had grown to love & hate.

I'm really looking forward to the Imriel trilogy...life in that household I predict will be very interesting... Imriel being who he is, and Phedre being who she is... I sense teenage rebellion x10.

*runs off to re-read the series*

[slave ruthie]

...and i wept anew :)

ohh for just the tiniest fraction of Jacqueline Carey's writing skill!

love & respect

ruthie[Phil]
XXXXXX
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