Are switches confused or is everybody else? [Archive]

sidhewolf

11-17-2007, 08:29 AM

It seems to be the popular consensus switches are confused. Not sure why, would love to know. I certainly don't feel confused. Surely we all have a little of everything in us, its just a case of what the mix is. A lot of subbies here get very dommie at times and seem to greatly enjoy it. Is it a case of switches not being able to make their minds up. For me it's more a case of wanting a full menu to choose from then deciding what I want to eat tonight based on my mood or what the the chef's speciality is. If I had to choose just one particular dish and eat the same thing every time, it would drive me nuts. Variety is the spice of life.

Hello Moonraker <waves>~

Personally and from my experience, it's not that Switches are confused, it's that Switches are confusing to most OP. Especially those that want to or do in fact Choose a certain path for themselves...and follow Just That. Some PPL don't understand diversity, especially in OP, some PPL don't like diversity <shrugs>. I Agree that All PPL have "a little of Everything" in them. At the same time though *most* are predominantly this or that Role as PPL, and that's ok too. I also Agree that Your "full menu" ideology is more the case with *most* Switches I have met and Know, then a "can't make up their mind" thingy.

Partner here is a Switch as one of his many facets....and at the very least that alone can keep things interesting <G>. In all fairness to PPL who have a strictly defined Self and expectations of others however, Switches being as they are are tough on those types of PPL. Even someone as diverse and multi-faceted as myself. Having gone from a Strictly Self Defined *M* as Always Dominant, who taught and directed me in Topping others, was NEVER Topped by anyone else. To an *M* who is a Switch with more facets than one can imagine...but an *M* none the less. Was Very difficult for even me. What a Switch <WEG> pun intended <winks>.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

gloombunny

11-17-2007, 12:20 PM

It seems to be the popular consensus switches are confused. Not sure why, would love to know.
Bisexuals get the same kind of crap. People just love pigeonholing each other, and they resent anyone who defies it.

WyldWyl

11-17-2007, 05:19 PM

Bisexuals get the same kind of crap. People just love pigeonholing each other, and they resent anyone who defies it.

I agree! As a bi switch, I frequently find people think I'm either just massively confused, or just greedy for fun. But I don't see myself like that. I'm an unfiltered person, who can see things from a lot of angles at once without becoming confused. I think I'm actually anti-confused, which gives me the strength to have a vaguer description of myself and occupy many roles at once.

So, some switches might be as confused as everyone else, but I don't see myself that way.

MitchC

11-18-2007, 07:21 PM

I'm a switch. I dont consider myself "Confused". For me, my switch status, is simply a matter of the fact that I enjoy the roles of both dom and sub. I find it arousing both to dominate a girl, and to be dominated by a girl.
While I see the posters point about some switches being confused, it isnt that way for me.

Mitch

Moonraker

11-18-2007, 07:46 PM

While I see the posters point about some switches being confused, it isnt that way for me. Mitch

You may have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying they were, I was saying I don't understand why some/people think they are and like you I don't feel confused... or at least I don't think so...come to think of it I'm not quite sure now.

MitchC

11-18-2007, 08:55 PM

Okay, I apologize for misunderstanding you, Moonraker.

To answer the real question you were asking, this is my view. You mentioned not understanding why some people think they are. I think there might be a couple of reasons. First, I think that stereotypes say that a man should be the dom. So, for some men, you might have them thinking: "Hmm, why do I enjoy this? Should I really? Is it really okay for me to enjoy being both sub and dom?"

Another reason, I think, is how they feel when placed in roles of both sub and dom. Some people enjoy both roles equally, while others enjoy one role more than the other. I think there might be thoughts by some people, that their BDSM experiences would be "better", and less complex, if they stuck to just one role of either dom or sub, and would be easier on their partners, especially in the case where they would dom, and have to ask a partner to sub, and the partner might not want to sub.

These are just a few thoughts. I dont know if you agree, but this is how I see it, Moonraker.

Mitch

Moonraker

11-18-2007, 09:58 PM

Mitch

To an extent it was a rhetorical question. I have two views. Firstly the human tendency to pidgeon hole people or stereotype as you say. I can understand this, but stereotyping seems a bit strange coming out of a community considered by the world at large to perverted deviants who need their heads testing.

Secodly the view I came across on another thread that you can't be good at two things. The problem with that is there are many cases of people excelling in more than one field and also, if true so what. What's the problem if you enjoy playing the guitar as a pasttime but ain't very good at.

The confusion theory irks me a bit. Makes me feel like the "perverts" consideri me perverse ha ha.

PS - nobody disputed my comment that it was the the general view, I expected 'never heard anyone say that' responses.

Ozme52

11-18-2007, 11:25 PM

Moonraker

11-19-2007, 12:39 AM

Ozme52

I'm seem to have caused great confusion with the first sentence of my post. On reflection I should have said, many switches here get confused with the English language. That said, I'm off to join a "How to write proper English" class!

Faibhar

11-23-2007, 08:42 PM

All posted here seem to basically agree on arbitrarily decrees pontificated by so-called subs, or subbies, that to switch is to necessarily waffle on one's conviction, and that switching is also to allow both sides of the coin when it comes to intimate matters.
Allowing diversity/ open-thinking, etc, frees inhibitions and in many instances can aid in one's growth.

F.

newby

11-24-2007, 03:50 PM

I agree! As a bi switch, I frequently find people think I'm either just massively confused, or just greedy for fun. .

i'm neither bi or a switch but i'm wondering, what's wrong w/ being just greedy for fun??

Ruby

11-26-2007, 04:21 PM

"I switch therefore I am", said Ruby.

PS - nobody disputed my comment that it was the the general view, I expected 'never heard anyone say that' responses.

Okay, I'll dispute it. I disagree with your statement and don't believe that it's, "the popular consensus switches are confused".

I'm at one with my duality. I believe that people can be good at more than one thing. I also believe that by limiting ourselves with too many rules and labels, we end up in very small boxes.

I agree that "variety is the spice of life". For those of us who enjoy being switches, sometimes we get to have our cake and eat it, too.

Interesting discussion Moonraker.

While I don't believe that everyone else is confused about switches, I do believe that a good many of them are confused.

So, let's keep the education going.

Faibhar

11-26-2007, 07:58 PM

Can 10K cows be wrong??:)

tazzinnc

11-26-2007, 09:29 PM

Switches are not confused, just twice the fun :)

gloombunny

11-26-2007, 09:36 PM

i'm neither bi or a switch but i'm wondering, what's wrong w/ being just greedy for fun??
Nothing, really, but it's still kind of annoying when people assume that's why I'm bi or switchy. My being greedy for fun is a wholly separate thing. :)

Moonraker

11-27-2007, 07:14 AM

Ruby

You disagee with "a popular consensus" but say many people do agree. Now I am getting confused. Aside from a statistical survey aint they kinda the same thing. Maybe I chose the wrong term and should have just said 'lots of folk think"

Anyway as I said before, for me it aint difficult. Today I want steak tommorow I want lobster. Ain't confused, just like to surf and turf it a bit.

Ruby

11-27-2007, 01:54 PM

Moonraker,

I think without a statistical survey we are safer with the "many people agree", without claiming that a majority agree.

I'm so glad you know what you want and when you want it. That rocks!

Ruby

WyldWyl

11-27-2007, 09:10 PM

i'm neither bi or a switch but i'm wondering, what's wrong w/ being just greedy for fun??

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Cool Luke's Hand

03-08-2008, 01:28 AM

gloombunny

03-10-2008, 02:28 AM

I've never heard anybody call a bisexual person confused and mean it.
Then you haven't been listening very hard. I'm frankly kind of astonished to hear you say that.

Cool Luke's Hand

03-10-2008, 02:53 AM

Then you haven't been listening very hard. I'm frankly kind of astonished to hear you say that.

Emphasis: I. I've never heard bisexuals being referred to as confused; I've heard people claim that teenage girls classing themselves as bisexual is attention-seeking behaviour (and with the proliferation of sites like Facebook and Myspace, they're getting the attention they seek), but not that they're confused. I don't see what's so astonishing about that.

gloombunny

03-10-2008, 03:31 AM

It's just surprising to me because I hear people saying that about bi folks all the time. There are lots of people who plain don't believe bisexuality really exists. That all of us claiming to be bi are either (a) homosexual and in denial, or (b) straight and trying to be trendy. (The former is more common for bi men and the latter for bi women, of course.)

ghostgirl

03-31-2008, 01:05 PM

Hope this thread isn't dead...this is my cherry post. *grin*

Great article that pretty much sums up my attitude:
http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdswitch.html

Hime

03-31-2008, 07:03 PM

I'm bi, switch, and poly, and I'm definitely not confused -- I wouldn't be messing around doing something if I couldn't figure out whether I enjoyed it or not. :p

I can see how some people in the scene really want to believe that everyone would be happier if they'd just embrace either dominance or submission, but I don't think that's true for me -- I'm more sub than I am dom, but my dom side is an important piece of the puzzle that composes me. :)

craven

07-24-2008, 09:16 AM

I agree with the comments of the other switches, I am neither confused nor necessarily greedy for what ever is going, although again as has been stated not that there is anything remotely greedy in seeking as much fun as one can get their hands on.

I am a switch, I can say this hand on heart, I am more dominant than submissive but have identified and learned to appreciate and allow my submissive side to surface, dependent upon the relationship and my feelings for the other person.

I believe that Switches make very good doms, as we are in tune with and understand the submissives mindset and feelings.

As for being confused, I am not sure how, or why i feel as i do when I meet people, however my first impressions are very rarely wrong, or need to be changed, I know whether I feel I am in the Dom or the sub role as a result of my interaction with the individual. this may in some way be effected by my own personal needs at the time, although I would say that I have met others that I would consider being submissive to only to find that they do not trigger the right impulses within me.

When I meet a domme or switch who arouses the submissive within me I am able to perform this role within the relationship, it is rare, that I feel the need to surrender however and has only happened in a couple of instances. the first time being particularly difficult for me, as I had no real understanding of the submissives mindset. That said I now feel a better Dom for having experienced and admitted to my submissive needs.

it has greatly changed my perception of submission, and as such my interaction with subs has evololved accordingly.

Once in a relationship I do not feel the need to dom from the bottom, or encourage the sub to take control, the parameters of my relationship remain , if I have accepted another as my Domme, or taken a sub then this is how that relationship remains.

Confused no, open yes not a fan of labels the role I take within a relationship is dependent solely upon the feelings that the other person triggers within me ,these are very personal and difficult to explain, as they are really unique from person to person.

I would just like to finish up with a quick plea, I am really not an easy sub, i dont think many switches are, as such the possibility of me submitting to another is going to rely upon the strength and character of the other, for all you would be dommes and subs seking to have a go at domming a switch please dont call me your slut or little one and expect me to hop into play with you, I am not able to speak for all switches, however I am able to say that I am a far more complex character, and need to build a bond of trust and understanding before I am able to commit to either role.

DowntownAmber

07-26-2008, 10:29 AM

One more perspective to toss out into the mix...

Our sexual personalities depend on more than just who we are inside our own heads and desires: we also have partners. The triggers they trip for us blend into our natural state of being and create "us" within that relationship. With J, I am very submissive. I have no desire to Domme him other than in a flip and playful manner. This being said, he's one of a very SMALL number of people that has ever drawn that out of me. My inclination with most men is to top the situation and be in control. Does that mean I'm confused? Or perhaps a switch? Nah, for me it simply means that my "inner Domme" is there to protect my true submissive self, and (I've found lately) to care for and protect others. The deep "truth of me" is sub, however and it takes a particular person to draw that out.

Debate, discuss, I'm off to grab a cookie... ;)

Shwenn

07-30-2008, 08:30 AM

I call myself a sub but I would be just as happy in the Dominant position. Either role, I don't care.

I don't know what pleasure others get from this but my focus, my love, my passion is for the submissive role. I would relish being in the role of a submissive, experiencing it from the inside. I would relish being in the role of dominant, not for the experience of being dominant, but for the experience of witnessing the submissive go through the experience. Seeing it calmly and objectively without the pressure of being under duress, taking in the reactions.

There is nothing particularly enthralling to me about being in a position of power. I'd happily take that position, but that wouldn't be the motivation.

So, does that make me a switch? Perhaps but probably not. My focus is pinpoint on submission, I have no interest in dominance itself. Am I a sub, then? Perhaps but probably not. Am I confused? Yes, completley, but no more than any other hairless ape stumbling around on this spinning rock.

ediegir

08-18-2008, 12:11 PM

In my experience, the confusion is usually felt by others and it tends to be pigeonholing (although there are some people who just haven't decided yet, or are confused). I'm a bisexual switch and I am in no way confused about either...but maybe that's just me

ashtonDs

08-18-2008, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by ediegir:
the confusion is usually felt by othersI think you're right. The "confused" label is given by people who only know one way to go. It's not something I worry about. I like it either way and could be perfectly happy in either role. On top of that I think dom/mes who have subbed make better tops anyway. :eek: (I know, little blue guy. Relax, you'll get over it.)

Questions like, "am I more sub than dom/me" or visa versa, are not really relevant to to being a switch. Who cares? Go out and experiment and explore. The answer will come to you.

In the end, what it comes down to is you don't have to let the question bother you. If it bothers them, hey, it's their life.

denuseri

08-18-2008, 05:49 PM

Peeks in to look at all the switches , all wide eyed, which switch should i flick first?

seriously i understand where you are coming from, but i would like to point out a few things to munch on

1) in a way even amongst submissives thier exists a hierachy, some girls domming others etc, even though they are all submissives, (notice i dont mention the boys) thats because they ussually (as i have seen on the internet and in real life) fall bellow the girsl for some reson, I dont know why, but one dom once told me its becuase of the hierarchy between dominants (yes some doms dom other doms -and or dommes etc lol) this is why my owner tells me we are all in a way switches

2) on subs being dominants, ive heard that one all the time, i know it seems like a dom that used to be a sub etc is skilled and they may be, (i also know its the "switch battle cry" lol no really i have never actually met a switch that dominated me well if at all>> dominance actually varies from individual to individual, i may be more dominant than another individual, i may know what they feel when certian things are done to them by me becuase ive had them done to me by another etc (oh wait thats right i probably learned the thing i am now doing to another from a dominant in the first place) but it is a completely spurious coroletion to think it makes me a better domme than a domme thats got dominant blood litterally flowing through her viens etc nessesarally, if that was the case i would make a better dom than my owner, which isnt just preposterious its downright silly

3)however this does not mean that the majority of us do not identify with one end of the spectrum more or less, of course it depends on the individual, my guess is switches just sit in the middle of the equation, sometimes dom sometimes sub, which is why those of us that have "commited" to a path feel like your confussed or cant decide or are affraid

4)alltough i must say and please dont take this the wrong way (this was explainned to me a long time ago by an old dominant and so far as ive seen it it pretty much rings true) He said:"allmost all of these ones that call them selfs "switches" are in fact actually just another type of submissive that also enjoys dominating those who will submit to them."
just some food for thought

i hope no one gets offended, it certiantly isnt my intention, i just wondered what the "switches thought" about this idea that i was actually taught and then later over time observed directly, especially once i came to this site and could observe so many switches first hand?

I certianly expect most if not all of you that identify yourselves as switches will disagree with me, i just want to mabey know why you do

hugs and kissess
denuseri

samzum

08-18-2008, 10:25 PM

me being a selfprofessed switch.... agreeing with Craven and Ashton .. pretty much sums a lot of it up for me. As for Denuser's #4 ... there is ALWAYS someone somewhere who will dominate someone else, even if that person professes to be a total dom/domme .... it's the human nature thing ( clarifing that relationships can be very complicated, or simple depending on the circumstances ). Besides all that, I'm ok with having fun with who ever I may encounter ... hehe besides ... I like the sex ( guess it makes me enjoy the simple things in life ... for the relationship part .. well we just work it at it each day the best we can :-)

craven

08-19-2008, 11:38 AM

Food for thought indeed Denuseri, thanks for sharing them with us, I really do feel a need to make comment with regard to sections 3 and 4 of your post, well ok most of it in fact lol.

I feel able to, and confident in calling myself a switch, not because I am confused, I cringe every time a domme tells me this, that I am confused because I simply, quote unquote “have not met the right domme yet” this really is not the case, I am far from confused, I know exactly what I want from all of the relationships that I enter into, from the outset, it is the qualifying criteria that denotes said relationships.

Often this statement is made by dommes who fail to understand me, make no effort to do so and attempt to domme cravens ass using their usual one size fits all dominant approach to BDSM.

I am, I feel very much towards the dominant end of the spectrum having only been a sub once before my current relationship, this did not end well, however as those that know me know I am currently serving one who is teaching me much about submission, and possibly more importantly helping me learn about myself as well.

This will I feel make me a more rounded person and a better and stronger Dom. However my Domma did not force me to surrender to her, nor make me serve her. I have done this and am doing so willingly. A Dom prior to, during and post this experience I certainly am, My Domma helped me uncover the submissive feelings and skills within me, she helped to unlock them so as to allow me to experience being a sub, but not just to experience the emotions within our relationship, but all potential future relationships, whether dom or sub, and to her I am her submissive, she controls me and embrace this and love it.

Your comment with regard to learning from other doms not necessarily making for a better domme, as in you could not learn to be better than your master is a valid one and here I feel I need to clarify why I feel that switches make very good doms. It is not because we learn from other doms how to dom, no not that at all, but rather because we understand how the submissive feels, what they need, and desire, we are in touch with our subs emotions because we have felt and experienced these feelings ourselves. We do genuinely understand and appreciate these.

Do I desire this going forward in all of my relationships no of course not, I am currently seeking a new submissive, not to hide or run from my own submissive feelings, but because this is what I desire to do. It is a conscious decision by me.

Different people trigger different feelings and desire within me, to say that life is black and white would be over simplifying things to the extreme, I have no issue or problem per se with those who are as you say committed to one path or the other, but just as, I as a heterosexual have no beef with those who are Bi-sexual I feel it is a matter of personal preference and choice, I do not seek to push my opinions onto others and am happy that we are able to debate such issues openly.

I would say though it is unjust to use the words confused or non-committal in conjunction with switches. I know I am neither. I am very committed to all of the relationships that I have been or am in.

As for point 4, I am neither going to refute this or support it, and no that its not a typical confused switch response. I have spoken with my Domma, herself a switch and other switches about this and feel that to be truthful, at times we all need different things within our lives.

I personally do not like to dom subs unless they are very strong themselves, there is real strength in submission, only those who are very strong and confident within themselves are truly able to surrender fully. Having experienced submissions and dominance I can state this with the up most confidence, so it really is not a case of switches simply seeking to dom those that will submit to them, far from it, much more complex in fact.

As such I am neither confused or a submissive I am a switch, I know this and am very confident and comfortable with it. I do feel that I sit very much towards the dominant side of the spectrum, as I would venture to many other switches. We do not tend to make the easiest subs, trust me on that one grins. I would venture.

Please don’t call me confused or say that I can be cured of my feelings, I am very happy as I am, I know what I am and like and welcome the ability to Dom and submit.

Both provide me with different feelings and rewards, I would never wish to have to make a permanent decision as to what label I wanted applied to me.

Perhaps switches ability to make this stance makes us the committed ones, as we are able to and prepared to make our own stance and not accept any of the pre ordained labels, this I leave with you, as I am sure it will prompt responses, I personally feel that we are all entitled to our own freedom of choice and expression.

Both elements give me great pleasure, and I have no desire to take a label and forsake one of these sources of pleasure.

I have made my choice and am very happy thank you, I need neither curing or clarity of thought, I am a switch, and that works for me thanks.

denuseri

08-19-2008, 01:31 PM

Thanks so much for the responses, i am not meaning to high jack this thread so much as provide a non-switch perspective for all you nice switches to comptimplait

BTW please be careful with interpetation of number 3 peeps. its actually not a question but a declaration to help explain why some doms and subs think as they do about switches, and i dont personally think all switches are confussed, i know they all have many justifications for choosing to identify with the middle path more than the other older roads,

and yes craven, you kinda confirmed numbers 1- 4 thank you with the entire post

, what that dominant ment when he told me that, in number 4 was that a "real dominant" in his opinion wouldnt let a "switch" dominante him, it would allways be the other way around, even when it didnt apear to be so, toping from the bottom so to speak and ussually seceeding, if not on anything but an uncoucious level, yet topping all the same, basically in his old school view, you were eaither a dominant or you were not, balls to bones, so to speak, He said the "title" of switch was wholey unnessesary to begin with as all else that wasnt dominant was submissive by defualt to one degree or another

08-19-2008, 03:49 PM

im not a switch but my point is.......... who cares? each to their own. lots of diffrent people like lots of diffrent things. who cares if its a a bit of this or a bit of that, or a bit both in this case. it isnt like their is a BDSM rule book. enjoy what you like and leave out what you dont like. and again, who cares what the people who think you are confused think. if they cant except why someone likes something diffrent to them when they are in to BDSM, then they are confused

denuseri

08-19-2008, 04:07 PM

I think the concept of switches is just as baffeling to a lot of doms and subs, escpecially the old school bdsm people or those raised in closure with more conservative bdsm beginings, some of which like my owner didnt really know what a switch was by that title until he saw them on this site

as far as catorgorizing Master X, idk, its human nature to classify ones surroundings etc for organizational and identification purposes, otherwise we wouldnt have names, or descriptions for anything, language wouldnt exist except in vague genreralities, etc etc

each to there own is fine by me, i am not here to try and tell the switches what to do, i am only flicking them to see if any lights come on

08-20-2008, 09:39 AM

you make a fair point denu. though i agree catorgorizing things is very nesisary in life in some instances it isnt accepable ie raseism, sexism etc... those are just a few examples of when lableing ist acceptable. so my point is basicly for organizeation purposes its fine. but there are many situations when it isnt needed

William_Augustine

08-23-2008, 05:36 PM

I agree with MasterX.

Just for the record, The Marquis de Sade used to switch.

Identity is a strange beast. I don't consider myself, and would never call myself "a switch" or a Dom, or a 'subbie'. I do switch, but I do not feel the need for this to be an important part of my identity. So many people who get exposed to so called BDSM culture seem to become walking clichés. For example there are many people who run around calling themselves 'Doms' but are actually just 'pains in the arse's'. People automatically learn by mimicking, but the copying process is often bad, like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy. I could go on about Mirror Neurons and Memes at this point, but I'd probably bore everyone to tears.

RE: human nature and categorizing. Many people see things as black and white, or shall I say they view things in a binary way. The real functioning world is rarely so well defined. There are always exceptions, or grey areas.

denuseri

08-27-2008, 02:00 PM

Ah the wondeful De Sade,,, I have no doubt this great libertine writer indeed played both sides of the fence. I wonder though just when in history the term "switch" first developed. So I looked it up.

My boolean searches leave much to be desired on the topic. Most internet recources revealled nothing about when the term came to describe a crossection of the bdsm subculture. The earliest references I was able to find were about the old gaurd leatherman comunity that became prevelent after ww2, where switches were described as "switch hitters" going from being the penetrator to the penatratee, or as later described in the early sixties as going from "top" to "bottom". This seems to be the first real refferences to switches as a general catagory at least that i was able to dig up.

Switching thechnically happens all the time in everyones daily lives depending on who and what you are doing or dealing with. I am certianly more dominant when i am teaching a class in school, and more submissive when getting a speeding ticket etc, lol.

Faibhar

09-16-2008, 04:21 PM

Far from finding offense, it is simply a shame that more can not "see out side of the box". Variety is switching does, at times, lead to a greater understanding of the Big Picture.

thir

11-07-2008, 09:42 PM

You've probably heard of Kinsey's theory of sexuality (basically that everybody is at least a little attracted to members of the same sex) and, while I don't agree with it, I think the theory applies to switches rather nicely. Just as switches like to dabble in both ends of the spectrums, so to do bisexuals, and I've never heard anybody call a bisexual person confused and mean it.

Commen mistake: Switching does not mean that you "dabble" with anything, you are just as dedicated as others.

I have heard people call bisexuals confused and mean it.

thir

11-07-2008, 10:13 PM

i dont personally think all switches are confussed, i know they all have many justifications for choosing to identify with the middle path more than the other older roads,

This is a misconception that comes up many times, like that mail about switches who "dabble" in bdsm: I can tell you that for me and the people I know personally there is not "middle path" in our switching. It is as submissive as any other sub, and as totally dominating as any other dom.
I know that this is hard for "one-siders" to grasp, but then perhaps, not being switches, you should just accept what people who actually are, say.

and yes craven, you kinda confirmed numbers 1- 4 thank you with the entire post

, what that dominant ment when he told me that, in number 4 was that a "real dominant" in his opinion wouldnt let a "switch" dominante him, it would allways be the other way around, even when it didnt apear to be so, toping from the bottom so to speak and ussually seceeding, if not on anything but an uncoucious level, yet topping all the same, basically in his old school view, you were eaither a dominant or you were not, balls to bones, so to speak, He said the "title" of switch was wholey unnessesary to begin with as all else that wasnt dominant was submissive by defualt to one degree or another

So I think the general idea here is that people who are not, in fact, switches themselves tend to have lots of opinions of that which they do not know about. Well, nothing new there.

thir

11-07-2008, 10:29 PM

each to there own is fine by me, i am not here to try and tell the switches what to do, i am only flicking them to see if any lights come on

This joke has only been made about 1000 times :28:

Which is why I would so like to find another expression - "switch" does not really say anything.

"power-shifter"?
"double-bareled"?
"double-edged"?
"binary"?

thir

11-09-2008, 03:21 PM

Maybe my problem with one-siders is that in the bdsm culture I come from switching or being binary is - conservative judgement - at least about 50% of the bdsm population and no one is confused about it or think much of it. It was weird and unpleasant to meet the measure of negative reactions to switches or binaries which - aacording to my personal experiences - is apparently normal on a great many BDSM lists.

Furthermore due to a chronic disease which kind of changes everything I need to find myself as a binary bdsm person sort of from scratch, which is why I started talking about things.

Now, there are sooo many lists for subs and doms, but this is about the only list for switches or binarys I have been able to dig up though I have searched extensively, and I thought it would be possible to discuss switch questions here without running into the usual comments about switches which you meet ad nauseum on all the other lists. In the first case you usually end up trying to explain yourself to rather close minded people
which is a waste of time and which I therefore will not do here. In the second case, the reason for writing to a switch list is to talk to your own kind of people who understand what you are talking about rather more easily.

Seeing how you put so much distance between one-siders and powershifters, I am sure you can understand the this need.

So, I would like to ask why it is that there are people here who are neither switches, nor non-switches people who are here to learn and listen?
I would especially like to ask you, denuseri, whether you really think that your wide-eyed view of these funny animals and your derogatory views from old guard people are really helpful comments?

Would you for instance feel that if a person on a sub list - who was not a sub - wrote about 'not my view but many people consider subs to be doormats - just something to think about' was trying to be helpful? In a talk about why people 'look down on subs'?

thir

Peeks in to look at all the switches , all wide eyed, which switch should i flick first?

seriously i understand where you are coming from, but i would like to point out a few things to munch on

1) in a way even amongst submissives thier exists a hierachy, some girls domming others etc, even though they are all submissives, (notice i dont mention the boys) thats because they ussually (as i have seen on the internet and in real life) fall bellow the girsl for some reson, I dont know why, but one dom once told me its becuase of the hierarchy between dominants (yes some doms dom other doms -and or dommes etc lol) this is why my owner tells me we are all in a way switches

2) on subs being dominants, ive heard that one all the time, i know it seems like a dom that used to be a sub etc is skilled and they may be, (i also know its the "switch battle cry" lol no really i have never actually met a switch that dominated me well if at all>> dominance actually varies from individual to individual, i may be more dominant than another individual, i may know what they feel when certian things are done to them by me becuase ive had them done to me by another etc (oh wait thats right i probably learned the thing i am now doing to another from a dominant in the first place) but it is a completely spurious coroletion to think it makes me a better domme than a domme thats got dominant blood litterally flowing through her viens etc nessesarally, if that was the case i would make a better dom than my owner, which isnt just preposterious its downright silly

3)however this does not mean that the majority of us do not identify with one end of the spectrum more or less, of course it depends on the individual, my guess is switches just sit in the middle of the equation, sometimes dom sometimes sub, which is why those of us that have "commited" to a path feel like your confussed or cant decide or are affraid

4)alltough i must say and please dont take this the wrong way (this was explainned to me a long time ago by an old dominant and so far as ive seen it it pretty much rings true) He said:"allmost all of these ones that call them selfs "switches" are in fact actually just another type of submissive that also enjoys dominating those who will submit to them."
just some food for thought

i hope no one gets offended, it certiantly isnt my intention, i just wondered what the "switches thought" about this idea that i was actually taught and then later over time observed directly, especially once i came to this site and could observe so many switches first hand?

I certianly expect most if not all of you that identify yourselves as switches will disagree with me, i just want to mabey know why you do

hugs and kissess
denuseri

denuseri

11-09-2008, 04:22 PM

Then I sugest you start your own thread thir. Mabey even your own webiste, dedicated just for "switches" so you can have the purity you desire with no open debate from any one else.

Last time I checked you didn't need to be identified with a title of any kind to post a thread or add a post to a thread in any of the open forums on this site.

Regardless of identity we are all into bdsm, one would assume that means we all share a common intrest.

The purpose of this thread is to present some of the views I have heard come from others as well as some views I have observed about Switches from my personal experiences and initiate a diologue specifically for the purpose of Switch's and The other two primary groups to debate and discuss such conditions and behaviors that lead them to identify with one side , the other, or both.

If you think I am being derogatory perhaps you shouldnt jump the gun and actually read my post, did you not read the part where I said I myself have even played both roles before?? Or the part about all of us in every part of our lives, both dom and sub, adjust the level of thier dominance or submissivness depending on thier relationship to thier surroundings and the perspective required us them at the time??

My main point being:

Since everyone "switches" to some degee in all manner of activities, why have a need for a third divison?

Beside the obvious, one holds the whip and one kneels in bdsm (i am not saying there isnt any out there that are both submitting and dominanting at the same time) that sort of struggle occures all the time, even in the most devoted polarized phycology of any relationship.

leo9

11-09-2008, 07:31 PM

Then I sugest you start your own thread thir. Mabey even your own webiste, dedicated just for "switches" so you can have the purity you desire with no open debate from any one else.
Why the sarcasm? I could see why she complained, if you weren't a moderator I'd have wondered why the moderators were letting someone come in and be so hostile. The point of having sub, Dom and switch fora is to let us discuss things with like-minded people: I wouldn't go to the Submissives' Couch and start dissing subs as a group. And in case you haven't looked, she already had started her own thread on this subject.

The purpose of this thread is to present some of the views I have heard come from others as well as some views I have observed about Switches from my personal experiences and initiate a diologue specifically for the purpose of Switch's and The other two primary groups to debate and discuss such conditions and behaviors that lead them to identify with one side , the other, or both.Didn't Moonraker start this thread?

If you think I am being derogatory perhaps you shouldnt jump the gun and actually read my post, did you not read the part where I said I myself have even played both roles before?? Or the part about all of us in every part of our lives, both dom and sub, adjust the level of thier dominance or submissivness depending on thier relationship to thier surroundings and the perspective required us them at the time??
We both read it, and yes, given your experience it's hard to understand why your attitude seems so dismissive.

My main point being:

Since everyone "switches" to some degee in all manner of activities, why have a need for a third divison?

Since everyone has sexual feelings for either sex to some degree, why have the category "bisexual"? Since everyone is less than monogamous to some degree, why have the category "polyamorous"? Since everyone uses erotic restraint or pain-play to some degree, why have the category BDSM? Why bother with words at all?

From the other side, there are plenty of Doms and subs who want to have the category "switch" so they can make it perfectly clear they're not like that. Which suits us fine.

While I'm quoting, something you said a few posts back that baffled me:

4)alltough i must say and please dont take this the wrong way (this was explainned to me a long time ago by an old dominant and so far as ive seen it it pretty much rings true) He said:"allmost all of these ones that call them selfs "switches" are in fact actually just another type of submissive that also enjoys dominating those who will submit to them."

So far as I know, consensual Ds is all about dominating those who will submit.

, what that dominant ment when he told me that, in number 4 was that a "real dominant" in his opinion wouldnt let a "switch" dominante him,
Since this guy obviously defines a "real Dom" as one who does nothing else, such a one won't let anyone dom them, switch or whatever. So what?
basically in his old school view, you were eaither a dominant or you were not, balls to bones, so to speak, He said the "title" of switch was wholey unnessesary to begin with as all else that wasnt dominant was submissive by defualt to one degree or another
So all you're saying is that some Doms don't believe that switches exist, which we already knew. By definition, that excludes them from a discussion of how switches feel.

denuseri

11-10-2008, 12:34 AM

thir

11-10-2008, 05:53 AM

I would edit in that I meant to say the purpose of my participation in the thread with my posts was to present a certian perspective. Which I did. Which ironically some have decided to make personal idk why and I apologize to everyone here for not rising above and even bothering to attempt to clairify my own postion on the issue.

This paragraph is a bit unclear to me, but I do see that the gist of it is that we have a beef with each other. I would like to address that as best I may.

Nothing in what I have have written was in any way meant to be a personal attack.

In hindsight, though, I do realize that it can be seen as such. First, because though I did in fact read everything carefully, I have not commented much on the first part of your mails, which I probably should have.

Secondly, my response was in fact not to you alone, but in a way to a number of people on a number of lists. Let me explain that.

The thing is, I have moved country (from Denmark to England, but also to UK lists) and find that conditions with respect to BDSM are very different indeed from what I was used to. Sexual freedom seems less, somehow, and the attitude to BDSM much more hostile. In addition, I have always been safe with the concept of switch, since it is generally accepted and frankly no big deal where I come from.

It wasn't as much a cultural shock I think as a continual drip drip of derogatory remarks about switching on every BDSM list I have been on, and I think on reading your mails I got to a sort of saturation point where I just felt bad enough to start saying something.

Because although you say otherwise in the first parts of your mails, you do keep quoting people whom you think are worth listening to who do attack the concept of switches, not leaving it to people themselves to define themselves, and leaving me with a feeling of being under siege not just from the vanilla world, but from within the BDSM world itself, which is something I have never experienced before.

These quotes, which you alternate agree with and distance yourself from, do in effect tell my that my Lord and Master is a sort of fake and second-rate. Of course I take offence at that, though in truth it does not ruffle His feathers and never would.

My posts before were not directed at any one in paticular... where as the ones i am responding too now are....which will eventually only spiral into an argument as opposed to a debate on the topic.

Ergo I will not respond any further in this venue.

My conclusion exactly. So we do agree on something ;-)
Personal attacks only destroy the atmosphere of the list, and makes it harder to have fun and learn something. It is no good at all.

Please remember to switch the lights out when you are done.
Peace.

Humour is an interesting thing. I was in a group discussing its use in schools and working places. We pretty much came to these conclusions:

Generally one has to be able to take a joke.
In jokes concerning some topics such as looks, handicaps, racial and religious stuff and such people who make them are generally supposed to tread lighter, but still a lot of jokes are made out of thoughtlessness and with no malicious intent.
So where is the line where humour crosses the line into bullying?

It is quite simply when the receiver clearly indicates 'you are hurting me', and the person goes right on doing it.

craven

11-10-2008, 08:25 AM

i have read this thread from the start and have enjoyed the thought provoking and challenging posts from you den, i would hate to see you stop posting.

Perhaps a classic case of shooting the messenger because of the message. i will let all who read this decide how they feel about this point

I have found myself questioning myself as a result of your posts and feel that this can only be a good thing, good and stimulating debate is essential for all of us.

having followed the thread i feel that i do not agree nor disagree with you, i feel that perhaps it is maybe a question of semantics, or perspective.

You speak of the need for another division, in addition to that of submissives and dominants, i feel that perhaps it may be more a case of an additional quadrant of the spectrum, or more simply identifying a section of the current dynamic.

the spectrum running from submissive to dominant with switches, of which i feel i am most definitely one sitting pretty much between the two.

I can not and would not wish to speak for all switches however within that banding some switches will sit more towards the dominant element whilst others are more aligned to the submissive dynamic.

as such do switches exist in their own entirety or are we simply a collection or banding of the equation, who can tell, who really cares .

I can say that i feel different emotions for different people, sometimes i feel dominant to an individual where as to others i feel submissive.

What and who these are, or why these feelings should alter i am not able to answer, it also depends on what i as an individual need at that precise moment in time.

the question of true dominants stating that they would ever allow themselves to be topped by a switch well, possibly, or maybe perhaps it is more a case of they have not done so yet, as in not met one that they feel could top them, or that they would feel comfortable in allowing themselves to be topped by.

As i have said before, on this thread, i have only served one before, and until then had considered myself a dom, my feelings and acceptance of my submissive feelings has led me to re evaluate this.

Am i am sub, no, i do not think so, am i a true dom, well not according to the definition, i sit very much towards the dominant end of the switch quadrant, and would be very very surprised if another could domme me, however i feel that switch is perhaps the best label to apply to my feelings and needs.

I use the word label because unfortunately we live in a society where labels seem necessary.

In reality i would be a lot happier to say to people i am me, and i am into powerplay, and then see where that leads to rather than having to explain myself and catergorise me for the benefit of others.

in fact the only place that i ever label or call myself a switch is here amongst these threads, when i am chatting to people i like to let them draw their own conclusions as to what they think i am.

so whilst we agree, and disagree on some and many fundamental and insignificant points of this and i am sure other debates den, please dont feel that yours as with any one elses viewpoint is invalid or of no relevance. you are an articulate and stimulating poster, with an interesting and provoking viewpoint here.

This thread would be all the poorer for your departure.

Long live the debate and long may your contributions continue.

RickBulow74

11-11-2008, 05:09 AM

*peeking in on this discussion and cannot help but chime in on this, especially since I want to learn all I can about everything*

I enjoyed reading this topic and also have a few questions to ask. I have no clue if they fall in line with what is said, but that is what an open discussion is about, right?

If people say that those who switch are confused about their status, does that not make most of us confused, considering as how in reality those who are high powered CEO's or presidents of businesses want to toss it off and show their submissive side? Or how about the lowly janitor or gofer? Would they not want to come home after a long day of work and come online to Dominate any? So why the confusion? After all, I think the ages old saying "you do not know what I been through unless you wall a mile in my shoes" definately applies here.

Again, just a crazy thought from my crazy mind.

JohnVanDom

11-23-2008, 01:24 AM

I am a natural, totally AlphaDom Male, STR8 or you better be awoman with a mighty big clit.

....I will use a submissive as I am only into BDSM as a girl supervised my torture for TWO YEARS as my mom watched..... when I was 11 and 12.

I am a sadist. Screams are orgasms. NOT A SWITCH.

Non violent, but OMG fantasy for me is watching you cum as I shove icy hot IN you.... (that was...the price)

safe, consensual, very very R/L and severe. OK?

Now, a SWITCH, a genuine genius and business owner, offers to come to me on her knees..... and be everything but my slave, until her son is 18, then, Gorean, mutilation.... ANYTHING

Why? What is a switch?

jayn0000

02-05-2009, 12:12 AM

honestly i guess if i were choosing one or the other i would have to choose .. Subbie.. but.. i DO enjoy a good dom every once and a while.. but.. i think i may take it on in a more subbie role. . My dom said be dom.. "yes sir, get on ur knees and lick my boots.. " ya know.. I may be confused.. lol

naughty_rick

02-06-2009, 05:57 AM

I know that Mitch C has the right idea. I'm 59 yrs.old and enjoy playing on both teams. I can walk and chew gum at the same time also. It is all about enjoyment and no problem here:hubba:

beeks

04-26-2010, 12:40 AM

Given what I have observed of the BDSM community in the past few years, I'm actually quite shocked that the blame regarding a dubious attitude toward switches is placed on other people's close mindedness. Some of the most amazingly intelligent and open-minded people I have ever met have been in this community and so I find it hard to swallow that the fault lies entirely with them.

I think that like any in-between label, switch is something that is very easy for those who are new to the path to grab on to. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every switch is a confused noob, but I can definitely see the attraction for newcomers in a very intimidating world to cling to a label that isn't too confining and allows room for change.

I don't define myself as anything at this point because I am still of unsure of that myself. I would hate to rush into calling myself a switch just because I have many traits of both dommes and subs and have my moments where I enjoy both, and in so doing, just perpetuate the whole switches are confused thing.

whipsnchains

04-26-2010, 09:02 PM

Is light a wave or particle? I think that those who disrespect switches by claiming they must be one or the other are so pre-einsteinian. Evolve people!

RickBulow74

06-09-2010, 04:26 AM

Is light a wave or particle? I think that those who disrespect switches by claiming they must be one or the other are so pre-einsteinian. Evolve people!

I know that there have been a few times in which some people denigrate and put me down for being a switch. I even had a few say that it is unnatural for a man to submit as it is not wholesome especially since they are to be the top dogs. Those people who feel that switches or (for that matter) submissive men are unnatural do not know what they experience.

thir

06-09-2010, 08:01 AM

I don't define myself as anything at this point because I am still of unsure of that myself. I would hate to rush into calling myself a switch just because I have many traits of both dommes and subs and have my moments where I enjoy both, and in so doing, just perpetuate the whole switches are confused thing.

You would not do that. The whole point is that having more than one urge is not confusion, it is just having more than one urge.

Nobody gets to ration it.

markolexus

06-24-2010, 07:22 PM

Yes why not, I guess I am a bit confused still. I started off - almost too many years ago to remember - being a total dom. I think because that was my stereotype of how a male (drawn to bdsm) should be. So later a gf suggested she topped and out of curiosity I tried subbing. That was great although puzzling.

A marriage to a Domme did not work because we were both in far too much of a Dom mindset - she's now happy with a much more malleable guy. And I know I can't live permanently with an out and out Domme. Probably I'm about 60% sub nowadays and have two ladies I see - one domme and one switch.

We do not switch within a session or even a week - it's a longer timeframe and is a kind of reciprocal moodswing. And it's really difficult explaining this to anyone in advance so I don't blame everyone else if they are confused by the endless changeability of switches.

leo9

07-13-2010, 04:49 PM

Something that became clear to me when I was writing on another thread about how subs are not weak... I realised that the reason I would never go into a full time sub position is that I'm not strong enough.

I have a weakness for avoiding responsibility, wiping decisions off on other people. The best cure I've found for that is to be a Dom: the reponsibility is all mine by definition, and I just have to butch up and carry it. But if I were to give myself to someone, I'm afraid I would relax into total passivity and wait for my Owner to tell me when to breathe.

davina_

09-12-2011, 12:17 PM

Wow, another passionate thread, too bad it seems to have died off. Can I throw a match at a puddle of gasoline?

I think that once you get old enough, you figure out that you spent too much time defining your role and not enough time just living for the maximum amount of pleasure. And I’ll get real specific just to stick it in nice and deep. I think that maybe some guys convince themselves that once they allow a Mistress to tease them and tell them that once they cum in their panties, they’ll never really be a man again. I think that’s a lot of BS. I believe that you are whatever you want to be. And if I want to be a sissy one day and then, the next day, I just devastate my Lady with a power and conviction that leaves her head spinning, hey, it’s whatever feels good at the moment. In other words, why can’t we be everything for our partners instead of just being one thing. I just don’t understand why it has to be so confusing. It seems so obvious that the more you are open to, the more you are able to experience. I think it's just a matter of preset limits which we all have anyway no matter what you call yourself. And the sooner you realize that the clock is ticking, the more fun the game looks from both ends of the field.

ashamed_of_myself

06-04-2014, 07:57 AM

Kuve {Sett}

06-24-2014, 08:37 AM

as someone who's been a switch for over 30 years I would have to say I'm not at all confused, I know what I want and enjoy and I decided quite definitely not to forego half of it. It has always puzzled Me that so many of the same people, gay and straight, dom/me and sub, who claim that their sexual preferences aren't a choice then turn around and say that switch and bisexual people should or must make the choice that they, the speakers, say doesn't have to be made.

SagaciousDom

06-24-2014, 09:18 AM

A switch is not confused any more than a bisexual is confused about his or her sexual orientation. A switch merely appreciates and finds meaningful both sides of the power exchange dynamic. They may have a decided preference for one side or the other but genuinely satisfy needs from both exercising and giving up control depending on the circumstances and the specific person they are interacting with.

There are people however that are confused, who think themselves a switch when they are not. I had a submissive who insists she is a switch and I gave her the freedom to explore the dominant role with others but it was clear when we discussed it that she found no real meaning or gratification from exercising dominance over other submissive males or females. In fact it was quite evident that she had difficulty in respecting those she topped simply because they yielded to her.

She has a very forceful and assertive personality and is truly a dominant force in her everyday life. I think she simply confuses that with her lifestyle role which is in my estimation purely submissive. Submissive women quite frequently are dominant in their everyday lives but definitely find meaning and satisfaction of their deepest needs from submitting to someone more dominant within the context of power exchange relationships.

just_ine

06-24-2014, 01:06 PM

I would be one of those people who take control without much trouble in my vanilla life and find that I crave the balance submission brings to me.

I have had several opportunities to Top and even Domme. I have been told that I am good at it. Natural.
But it drains me. It saps my energy and creativity. I am experienced enough to know now that it happens and I therefore very, very rarely indulge in that. It sometimes even has a negative influence on my submissive self. (Telling myself: He probably doesn't want to answer your message/email because you drive the right out of Him!)

So, because I CAN and sometimes DO top, does that make me a switch? No.
Why? Because it doesn't add to my life/relationships. It takes away.

For me, in the time of first exploring, the most difficult feedback to accept was being told that I couldn't be a true sub and also Dom.
People in this lifestyle can be the most critical of those around them. Surprising when you consider they themselves are on the fringes of what's considered 'normal'

SagaciousDom

06-25-2014, 12:31 PM

Nice post just_ine. I don't think it could be said any better than you have explained it.

S

slaveboy 6

12-19-2014, 11:23 PM

When I initially got into the bdsm scene I was strictly a sub, then one day the idea of being a Dom appeared. I was that for a while. Then I did a role play in which I played a sub and a Dom. So became a switch for a while. I experienced what just__ine explained above. Now, I'm back to where I started because it's much easier taking a spanking than giving one.

ashamed_of_myself

09-19-2016, 05:35 AM