Is cyber cheating

[new1]

Please respond your opinion on cyber...

[Midnite]

yes

[Ozme52]

No

If cyber is cheating so is Playboy Magazine.
So is watching Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct
So is reading The Story of O.

It's all mental stimulation of a sexual nature.

And it's not cheating unless you promised not to do it.

[sipgirl]

Depends

[Euryleia]

Are you in a monogamous relationship where you are exclusive? Then the answer is yes.

I've got to disagree with Oz here. Yes, reading porn online is akin to reading a Playboy or watching a DVD. But, to my mind, cyber involves interaction like chatting. And the back and forth stimulation is more than just impersonal fantasy--it is can be incredibly intimate. Heck, I know folks who have more sex online than they do with the partner they live with and, even though they try to offer excuses, they know it is cheating when they do it.

[Midnite]

I also have to agree, if you are involved in, monogamous relationship, then cyber is cheating, unless your partner knows about it, it is agreeable to it

[Logic1]

I say yes. Cyber is human on human interaction be it online but still it is human on human and for me yes that is cheating.
Reading playboy or online porn like watching pictures or movies or the stories here is not cheating.
That is my opinion.
so I totally agree with Euryleia

[Arria]

I am with Euryleia´s defintion.

As for the cheating question - I think it should be discussed between the partners if they are comfortable with it or not.

Doing it behind your partner´s back, secretly, or against your partner´s will - yes, I think that is definitely cheating.

[WyldWyl]

No. It's no worse than flirting. If, however, it leads to an actual relationship, then yes.

[Warbaby1943]

Everyone has differing opinions and they are strewn all throughout this forum. A search on cheating may turn up some interesting posts.

[Moonraker]

I think its virtually cheating but not quite!

[cadence]

Because everyone has a different interpretation of what cyber is, you won't get an answer that is tidy and concrete.

I am on the fence with this question, I do think that yes it is cheating, but I also agree with Oz, watching porn, reading porn, or even going to see strippers is the same as cyber, and it is not cheating.

It all comes down to how your relationship works, and how each individual feels about it. It also depends on what your interpretation of cyber is.
I get the idea that not everyone has the same definition of what cyber is either

[J-Go]

OK let’s take the equation of “I” out of this discussion, since we are discussing the “cheating” aspect we will assume the question is “am I cheating when I have an on-line relationship?” This is going depend on how your partner feels about it. A person will be threatened by different things and at different times depending on circumstances in the relationship. I have seen heavy flirting by one partner be a real violation of trust to another. This is what it really comes down to, is there a violation of trust? And come on this should be no surprise to anyone who has conscience, if you are hiding any type of relationship from your partner then odds are good it’s a violation at some level.
So to the question is it cheating? I would say if your partner knows and is OK with it then no. If you are secretive about the activity or your partner knows and is bothered by it then it’s a dishonest situation that will only lead to a relationship breakdown.

[Sir_Russell]

My two cents worth.

Life and marriage is a very large game with intricate and complex rules. We were swingers for quite a long time, does that make me a cheater, not by my rules, she knew, she participated and enjoyed with me. The same was true for me. Nothing in our rules said that sex under these conditions was cheating but if either of us slipped out with the others knowledge of the other then that would be cheating.

So I say cyber like any other possible form of cheating depends on the couples rules. As a Master with a slave I will take a pet or two for training purposes with my slave's full knowledge and I don't feel that is cheating either. I will share my slave with members of both sex or I may have her entertain in a carnal manner a male friend of mine without my presences and that to will not be cheating because she will be following my rules.

[His_blizzard]

For me it is quite simple. If I feel guilt then I am cheating.
There are so many levels, but I also have to agree that if it is a one on one interaction with another person, whether or not that other person is legitimate (and not some smelly old man sitting in his boxers and smoking a cigar) and emotions and feelings are exchanged, then it is cheating to me. Especially if it is in a true Dominant/submissive relationship. By this I mean that the sub, for instance, is interacting with the Dom on more than a purely "cyber sex/ ok I got off buh bye" kind of way. Once deeper emotions are exchanged other than a mutual quickie, then, imho, you are giving that other person something that belongs to your spouse or significant other and that is cheating them out of something you promised them. Make any sense? *grins* ~blizz~

[ThisYouWillDo]

... If I feel guilt then I am cheating.


Makes perfect sense to me, although I think there is more to it. Your feelings of guilt must arise from a breach of the trust your other half places in you, or a breach of the "rules" your relationship is governed by.

Some people don't feel guilt or don't recognise rules of behaviour. They can cheat by cybering too, if they ignore their partner's expectations.

However, I don't think it matters whether you are cybering, using a prostitute, keeping a mistress, or simply thinking about it. You are cheating if your behaviour is unacceptable to your partner.

In the past I have had friendships with girls which my wife did not approve of, fearing my infidelity. Had I even taken those girls out to the pub for a drink without her approval, I would have been cheating.


TYWD

[gloombunny]

Why are you asking us? You should ask your partner.

If you don't feel like you can tell your partner about it? That's part of the test!

[Ozme52]

Are you in a monogamous relationship where you are exclusive? Then the answer is yes.

I've got to disagree with Oz here. Yes, reading porn online is akin to reading a Playboy or watching a DVD. But, to my mind, cyber involves interaction like chatting. And the back and forth stimulation is more than just impersonal fantasy--it is can be incredibly intimate. Heck, I know folks who have more sex online than they do with the partner they live with and, even though they try to offer excuses, they know it is cheating when they do it.

Laffin because we're gonna end up arguing over the degree to which a particular activity constitutes "impersonal fantasy"

I know the following question is out there on the edge of hyperbole, but isn't using a prostitute pretty impersonal? :rolleyes: Just the rental of warm flesh, perhaps never to be encountered again.

Okay... so what are the rules going to be as computers get more and more ubiquitous, as we get more and more comfortable... and there will be new ways for people to interact online.

Ultimately it will all depend on what you expect of monogamy.

[Ozme52]

I think its virtually cheating but not quite!

That would have been brilliantly funny without the last three words.

Virtual cheating in a virtual world. :rolleyes:

[new1]

Thank you for the discussion. I feel like I've been cheated on because of "secret" relationships on the computer. It's not just chat, it's pictures, cams and a big cell bill. When I discovered it I was accused of invading her privacy, but I feel like she cheated. She says there was no physical contact, so no cheating. I wanted to see what others thought as well.

[delish]

gloombunny there has the right idea, but I'll give my opinion anyway, because I love to. There've been a lot of discussions about the nature of what it means to "cyber". My definition is this: Hooking up with somebody online and having the text version of phone sex. In my relationship, it would be a breach of my trust (cheating) if my husband did that without my knowledge. Or without some lengthy discussion first, which I know doesn't line up with how a lot of you are going to view power exchange, but that's how we are. I would also never do it without his knowledge and approval in advance. I think even flirting with people online can get out of hand, which is why if I do flirt, it tends to be at arm's length, unless I know the person is "safe" (ie, never, ever, ever gonna be interested in pursuing me) and I know him/her well. I am surprised at how much I have to say on the subject- I just deleted a whole paragraph about developing close relationships online, because it's not really relevant. The whole point is that it's between you and your significant other. If it's not between you (ie, a secret), then I think there's a problem.

[new1]

Why are you asking us? You should ask your partner.

If you don't feel like you can tell your partner about it? That's part of the test!


She doesn't think it's cheating so she will not discuss it with me.

[cadence]

She doesn't think it's cheating so she will not discuss it with me.

I think that now you have a bit of a problem there. You "believe" that she has cheated. She doesn't think it is cheating.
You have asked us all a question to which you are going to have many different answers to because we all have varying opinions. Only you know how you feel and why you feel as you do.

You both need to discuss this without having any accusatory feelings towards each other.
You need to find out why she has done what she has done, and keep an open mind.
She in turn will also have to be able to understand why you are upset.
Disscussing the issues camly and openly, may be able to help you both work this out and be able to come to what you are both willing to do next.

If you both continue to harbour bad feelings and refuse to talk, it will only lead to more deception on either side.

[delish]

She doesn't think it's cheating so she will not discuss it with me.

Communication is key. If one person in a relationship isn't okay, then the other(s) aren't either. One partner's feelings cannot be ignored. As soon as you commit yourself to the relationship, you can no longer say, "Well, that's your problem, so deal with it." Not without some hefty communication first, anyway. (Because there have been times where there are things that I (or he) just do need to deal with, but it's always "our" problem to bear. That's the cool thing about being a couple/in a relationship.)

I agree heartily with cadence- it has to be approached right. The conversation can't be accusatory, and it can't be heated. If you get flustered easily (I do), I would suggest thinking through exactly how you want to phrase things so that they are not inflammatory, and possible ways to respond to things that you already know she'll say. Bring up your feelings on the matter, define what cyber means in your mind and why it is something you're not comfortable with, and express that you really need her to communicate with you on the subject. Tell her how you feel about her (not about her cybering, but about her- gooey stuff, sincere stuff), and that you don't want to feel hurt, but you also can't just bury how you feel about this. And while it's obvious that the conversation isn't optional (from my perspective, anyway, without doing damage to the relationship), be willing to give her space, and time to think. If she doesn't want to discuss it right away, make sure she will discuss it with you, on a reasonable timetable, preferrably before something similar occurs again (if it even does occur again- she might not even be planning to do it, and that might be why she doesn't think it's important). I know, I'm getting preachy about communication, but I've watched so many couples disintegrate because they forget that they're actually on the same side! So it's something that is more valuable than gold... or, in my case, my perfume oils. :) Best of luck, and I hope once she realizes how important it is to you, that the situation is able to be resolved in a way that works for you both!

[J-Go]

Thank you for the discussion. I feel like I've been cheated on because of "secret" relationships on the computer. It's not just chat, it's pictures, cams and a big cell bill. When I discovered it I was accused of invading her privacy, but I feel like she cheated. She says there was no physical contact, so no cheating. I wanted to see what others thought as well.

Replace the word cheat with trust violation and I think your closer to the accurate feeling. I'm sure in her mind she did not cheat...you can not change how she feels only relay how you feel. "I feel our trust has been violated" "It makes me feel cheated out of time you could have been with me". Discuss from a position of your feelings rather than what she did or did not do you. Those are no win conversations.

[Delillah]

You are cheating if your behaviour is unacceptable to your partner.

TYWD

I have a vanilla marriage. If I masturbate it is unacceptable to my spouse. Is it cheating if I do it anyway?

[Sir_Russell]

no it isn't! to quote woody allen it is making love to someone you love.

it involves no one outside of the marriage.

[Wedjat]

Hmmm, I have a couple of cents to throw in here. One thing about talking with your significant other, like my mom always says (although I don't think she would have pictured this particular scenario : ) .... write it down first, then you don't get your words mixed up and it's harder for the other person to misunderstand you.

As for whether something is cheating - I agree that it depends on the people involved in the relationship and no two will likely be the same, BUT one thing that I haven't seen mentioned is thinking first "How would I feel if it was reversed?" I know a lot of the guys in general don't see watching a stripper as cheating, but I'd bet they wouldn't be really comfortable if their significant others were hitting up the Chippendale's. That's it, just think how you would feel if the situation were reversed. Pretty simple, really.

By the way, good quote Sir Russell : )

[Aadenn]

cybersex is a forum of mutual masturbation, so depending where you draw your lines as to what is "cheating" then thats where the lines are drawn for cybersex. To me, it is cheating. To some people it wouldnt be.

To some people blowjobs aren't cheating either, but i'm not one of those.

Cheating is about where boundaries are and weather those boundaries get crossed. If you've made it clear to each other that its okay to have cyber then no its not cheating. If you haven't talked about it, I would avoid it as I'd lay good odds on most people considering it to be a form of cheating.

[deigja]

I totally agree with those who advise communication in a non heated fashion.. still this often is not easily achieved if you feel hurt. sometimes every discussion ends in an argument. If thats the case for me it´s easier in writing... I can write down everything I want to say without beeing interupted, there is no chance that I angryly let something slip that I would not really want to say.. And it gives the Partner time to think about this first.. He has to read the whole of your opinion and it can sink in a little.. Even if he is of another opinion..she will perhaps at least come to understand your point of view.

But even if this might be a help it never replaces a discussion afterwards.. you really need to talk, just keep it low. ;-)
Hope you´ll be fine
Deigja

[Silus]

I would have to lean towards Oz's answer. Personally I think its no more cheating than masturbation. But thats just my opinion.

[delish]

I would have to lean towards Oz's answer. Personally I think its no more cheating than masturbation. But thats just my opinion.

I have to respectfully disagree, especially in this situation as it's been laid out. I think Sir_Russell had it right, tongue in cheek aside. It was kept a secret, it involves at least one other person not in the relationship, and the partner not doing the cyber-ing/phoning/photo-exchange feels betrayed. I think (as I've already said... sheesh, I need to get out of this discussion, don't I?) that it demands some serious discussion.

Secrets=bad.

And if it happened to me in the early stages of a relationship and my partner had been unwilling (after more than one request, of course) to discuss my feelings or take my feelings into consideration, I would be on my merry way. I cannot have a close relationship (friend, family, lover, whatever) without above average communication skills. That's one of the most important qualities I look for in anyone. It's essentially a hard limit- I don't know how else to classify that, and my brain is tired.

[annie]

Thank you for the discussion. I feel like I've been cheated on because of "secret" relationships on the computer. It's not just chat, it's pictures, cams and a big cell bill. When I discovered it I was accused of invading her privacy, but I feel like she cheated. She says there was no physical contact, so no cheating. I wanted to see what others thought as well.

new1...

having been in a situation close to this the best advice i can give is...

Stop asking for a definition of "cheating" here. You are going to get 1,000 answers on basically 2 (maybe 3) sides.

We can't and shouldn't validate any emotions for your or excuses for her. If that is how you feel then that is a valid emotion to you. Just because myself, or Oz, or Joe Blow may not agree with it won't change your feeling on it. And just because we may agree with her won't change your hurt or anger over it.

If it is a relationship worth saving then what you need to do is get her into counseling with you to work out the issues on it. Such as:

"why did she feel the need to do that?"
"Was it sexual based or emotionally based?" (yes, there is a difference)
"how can we prevent this trap in the future?"
"how can we rebuild the trust?"

Use a natural party, like a counselor, to help determine why what happened did happen and how to move forward either together or separate from there. If you decide to try perhaps a good book for each of you to read is Do I Have to Give Up Me to Be Loved by You? by Jordan and Margaret Paul

It doesn't matter what we think... trust me, I could give you "instances" on both sides, for and against. God knows I have played that game enough time. Bottom line though, it is your life and you have to determine your next course of action.

Don't mean to sound harsh but asking here won't help you figure out the next step or move forward.

Hugs! Good Luck... I know it is rough.

[Alex Bragi]

Spot on, Annie. :)

[Euryleia]

snip

If it is a relationship worth saving then what you need to do is get her into counseling with you to work out the issues on it. Such as:

"why did she feel the need to do that?"
"Was it sexual based or emotionally based?" (yes, there is a difference)
"how can we prevent this trap in the future?"
"how can we rebuild the trust?"



Great questions, Annie, and great advice, too.

[Stone]

Well the great debate has begun.......this is like the onlive vs real life arguement all over again...........some say this some say that ect.......wonders how many of the onlines will say its not cheating? because it is a very real relationship......but its not cheating....but lets not go there

OK here is my 3 cents it maybe not be physically cheating but it is cheationg on atleast an emotiional level...if you are relaying on someone out side of a relationship to get somehting you need.....maybe that is telling you somehting about your relationship is all i cna say

[Arria]

@ new1: I think the operative word is "secretly" here. What I wonder is, if she thought it was ok, why did she do it behind your back in the first place.

And it´s not a definition problem anyway. No matter what it is - if one of the partners is not happy with it, and the other ignores his feelings, it is not a sign of her loving or even respecting you very much, is it?
The point is not: 1000 people on this page say it is cheating, so by telling her that you "prove" it actually is.
The point is, she is hurting your feelings and does not care. So if you want to discuss that with her, it would be the way to go.

And I don´t mean to sound heartless, but if she does not care about your feelings, why would you want to stay with such a person?

She is right on a legal point, meaning if you take it to court her actions will not qualify as cheating; but she hurts you on an emotional level, and that is what counts here, after all.

Kind regards and best wishes
Arria

[annie]

The point is, she is hurting your feelings and does not care. So if you want to discuss that with her, it would be the way to go.

And I don´t mean to sound heartless, but if she does not care about your feelings, why would you want to stay with such a person?



I am using Arria's post as the example ONLY because it was the more previous post to mine. That having been said...

Having been there it may not be a matter of heartless... after all, we are only getting one side of the story. What lead up to her "cheating?" Were there problems before that she attempted to bring to the surface that he wasn't willing to discuss? Was he meeting her needs both physically AND emotionally? He is condemning her for behavior that he is in some fashion enacting himself (at least from her point of view)?

Some of these posts are instantly condemning someone we don't know based on very little, one sided, information. And even if new1 tells us the FULL story it is still only HIS side of the story. We still will not have a frame of reference as to her thinking, feeling, etc. on the topic.

There is more here then meets the eye, it takes two to ruin a relationship just as it takes two to maintain one. So, I think we all need to back out, stop judging that which we do not know completely, and let new1 work it through with his partner only.

Yes, some of us may have been cheated on or cheated on someone before. But, each relationship is different and the 2 involved are the only qualified ones to determine the next course of action.

I understand why the question was posted, but no good will come from us validating either new1's or the other's behavior.

[Wedjat]

I think Annie is a very wise person.

[Arria]

I agree with Annie. Of course it always takes two. I did not mention that extra because I thought adult people have enough brains to know that.... well, I might have been wrong there.

The matter remains that he is unhappy and she does not care, whatever there was before, and whoever is to blame for it.
I tried to point out that whatever we say will not make a difference to the whole situation, and whatever we say might not be of use.

Counseling might be the best way, communication between them both is vital, and taking it out by using people´s arguments from an internet forum will not work.

[cadence]

Thank you Annie for being the solid voice of reason.

[DowntownAmber]

There have been a lot of great posts on cheating: what it is and what it isn't. That being the case, I'm not going to bother throwing in my two cents -- at this point it would likely cause an avalanche of pennies.

I'm chiming in simply to say to the original poster, prehaps approach this topic with your partner without making it an issue of cheating and infidelity. As this thread clearly shows, cheating can mean different things to different people. If you and your partner get caught up in definitions and semantics, she's going to continue to focus on the fact that in her mind she didn't cheat and therefore there isn't a problem. Communicate to her that you understand she doesn't believe she cheated, but you still feel as if your feelings were compromised and that you're hurt.

Rules and definitions are fine, but relationships aren't courts -- getting out of something based on a semantic loophole isn't really winning your case when what you're trying to accomplish is building and maintaining a partnership. It's possible to be "right" and justified and win the argument, but if you cause damage to the person you're supposed to care for in the process, what have you really won? Perhaps this should be the conversation you and your partner are having.

[Mr.J]

Its cheating if you spend time and energy away from the person you are with. To play with someone online, you should spend that time and energy with the person you are with or what is the point in being with them

oh and for the people that say they are with vanilla partners , everybody can be changed it just takes time

[Ozme52]

Its cheating if you spend time and energy away from the person you are with.
No more fishing or golf (or any solo hobby) for you. Especially considering surveys show most men golf for no other reason.
To play with someone online, you should spend that time and energy with the person you are with or what is the point in being with them
And NO friends outside of people who are friends of both. No outside interests for either of you... only those things you are both willing to do.

oh and for the people that say they are with vanilla partners , everybody can be changed it just takes time
Huh? In that case, it's pretty presumptuous of you to presume it should be the vanilla partner who changes?

[Mr.J]

lol fishing and golf are boring there are better things to waste your time on then hitting a ball with a club and trying to catch a fish with a worms


and yes freinds but cybering is not that now is it

and yes i am presumptuous life is to short

[Mr.J]

if you cant deal with what you got and you are trying to find somthing better online do it in in real life

[Ozme52]

if you cant deal with what you got and you are trying to find somthing better online do it in in real life

No telephone.
No mail.
Just face to face.

It's the 21st century. I'll use whatever forms of communication are available. Your apparent predjudice against modern communications as valid ways to find and interact with people as friends and possibly more is unfortunate.

[Ozme52]

lol fishing and golf are boring there are better things to waste your time on then hitting a ball with a club and trying to catch a fish with a wormsWell that wasn't the point. The point was your original statement was rather narrowly defined.



and yes freinds but cybering is not that now is itYou say that like everyone agrees. Obviously not.


and yes i am presumptuous life is to short So if it's too short, why are you suggesting I should be wasting my time trying to change someone elses lifeview?

[Mr.J]

well you are trying lol

[Mr.J]

i know what you are saying about people going out to play golf and fish because they dont want to be at home with there loved one, but again these people need to get better control of there lives

[Mr.J]

i have no tecno fear lol i was saying if you are going to get online while your wife sleeps in the bedroom and cyber with a sub because u r not getting it in real life its cheating if thats what you realy want be a man about it tell the wife what you want or leave. its hard to be a dom if you are hiding your life on a computer sacred you will be caught

[delish]

i know what you are saying about people going out to play golf and fish because they dont want to be at home with there loved one, but again these people need to get better control of there lives

If I may presume... I don't think Ozme52 was saying that people golf and fish to get away from their loved ones. I think he was saying that when you said it was cheating if you spent time and energy away from your loved one(s), that was a rather broad definition. Work is spending time and energy away from loved ones. When I am online, I am not spending time with my husband. When I'm at school, I'm not spending time with my husband. When I'm with friends, when I'm doing things for me, when I'm doing a lot of things, I spend time away from him. Does that mean I'm cheating? By your definition, yes. But to me, that's how life keeps me healthy. I am not less close to him because of the things I do. I do not love him less for the time I am away, and he doesn't love me less for the time he is away, either. I think we'd be pretty sick of each other if we focused all of our energy on one another all the time, every day, with no interruption at all. (Sure, we'd get creative and it'd take a while, but still...)

That being said, I still respectfully disagree with the stance that cyber/phone sex is not cheating when it's hidden from the rest of the partnership. Masturbation is one thing. Masturbating with another woman? There'd be some white-hot rage from me. It's about moving that fantasy into reality. If he sees strippers, he's not masturbating with them. They're there for money. He's there to look. But once a personal connection is made... that's betrayal. In my relationship, anyway. I liken looking at porn online to watching strippers, and having cyber/phone sex to hiring a hooker, or worse.

[Mr.J]

i understand people need to spend time away from each other there is nothing wrong with that it is the way we are but some people work a 40 hour week go to classes after school fish on a saturday church on sunday, or golf and then complane because there wife husband does not understand them they then spend the few hours they spend at home online trying to hook up with other people, that is not a heathly life lol

to get this back on subject is cyber cheating ?

ask your self this if you look forward to talking to someone online when you see them log on or phone does your heart beat faster then there is a emotion there it is cheating you are hiding your feelings form a loved one

how would you feel it you found a letter or email to your partner talking about stuff they dont want to do with you, and can i say here if you are cybering and spending time away from your partner what do you think they are doing ?

[Aadenn]

"No man on his death bed ever said, 'i wish i'd spent more time at the office' "

[J-Go]

"No man on his death bed ever said, 'i wish i'd spent more time at the office' "

Good point!
I wonder if I'll say "I wish I'd have spent more time on-line?" hmmmm

[ThisYouWillDo]

Now I have a fabulous secretary at my office ...

[Alex Bragi]

...(oh and for the people that say they are with vanilla partners,) everybody can be changed it just takes time..

Oh boy, this sounds just like something my Dad would say about homosexuals.

Digressing a little here...

I'm in a very happy in a vanilla relationship r/t--he's everything I could ever want but for one thing. I'm also in a very happy in a bdsm relationship v/t. with with a man, Bragi, who is in much the same situation as me. Bragi fills a huge void in my life; a tremendous need that needs to be satisfied. I feel that together these two men make my life complete and wonderful. I truly feel that on some levels my v.t. actually enhances my r.t. relationship and maybe visa versa too. If I had to, I couldn't possibly choose between the two men because each one fills and satisfies an entirely different part of me. Bragi and I are very happy; both of our respective partners is happy although neither is aware of our online "secret", and after a decade I can't see that changing any time soon. I'm not asking, or expecting, everyone here to understand this but to perhaps just be a little more open minded and empathic towards people like me.

Is it cheating? Probably, but what's the alternative? Oh, I know what exactly what all you idealists out there will say, so please don't give me your rhetoric about "changing people" and I'll spare you the sad and unfortunate facts about why it just simply isn't that simple.

So, is it really fair to judge what is right, and what is not, here?

Oh, and DowntownAmber, spot on! Well said!

You too, Oz, you're always worth a read.

And, new1, I hope you're able to sort this out. :)

[Tojo]

It seems to me New1, that you're asking the wrong people the wrong question- as annie pretty much said, you have to work it out yourself whether what she did is acceptable to you.

[jeanne]

Oh boy, this sounds just like something my Dad would say about homosexuals.

Digressing a little here...

I'm in a very happy in a vanilla relationship r/t--he's everything I could ever want but for one thing. I'm also in a very happy in a bdsm relationship v/t. with with a man, Bragi, who is in much the same situation as me. Bragi fills a huge void in my life; a tremendous need that needs to be satisfied. I feel that together these two men make my life complete and wonderful. I truly feel that on some levels my v.t. actually enhances my r.t. relationship and maybe visa versa too. If I had to, I couldn't possibly choose between the two men because each one fills and satisfies an entirely different part of me. Bragi and I are very happy; both of our respective partners is happy although neither is aware of our online "secret", and after a decade I can't see that changing any time soon. I'm not asking, or expecting, everyone here to understand this but to perhaps just be a little more open minded and empathic towards people like me.

Is it cheating? Probably, but what's the alternative? Oh, I know what exactly what all you idealists out there will say, so please don't give me your rhetoric about "changing people" and I'll spare you the sad and unfortunate facts about why it just simply isn't that simple.

So, is it really fair to judge what is right, and what is not, here?

Oh, and DowntownAmber, spot on! Well said!

You too, Oz, you're always worth a read.

And, new1, I hope you're able to sort this out. :)

As usual, Alex, you've echoed my thoughts. Thank you for for that. :)

[Widget]

This is a great topic to get thoughts on something I am sure most have asked them selfs one time or another. I also noticed a few replies get a bit heated.. just a reminder to play nice too.

[Mr.J]

i did not mean to judge anybody on here about what they do online or off with out there partners knowing i was just answering my point of view

and for my comment about everybody can change it takes time well i serpose that did sound a little one sided

but i have not met man or woman that breaths that if there partner asked them to go out choose them, some little lace outfit ,leather or what ever floats there boat then tells them they can tie them up and have there way with them they would not jump at the chance, i was just saying there is a spark in all of us

[J-Go]

This is a great topic to get thoughts on something I am sure most have asked them selfs one time or another. I also noticed a few replies get a bit heated.. just a reminder to play nice too.

When you get afew Doms in a room discussing a topic like this one you will get some passonate debate...nature of the beast.

D I have found nothing offensive stated here, I understand it's your opinion. I may not agree with it all but from one dom to another I respect your right to it...keep it up.

Widget we do play nice...unless we're in the dungeon weg

[Arria]

I am with D insofar as I don´t actually believe into vanilla people - I think everybody has hidden fantasies one way or another.
My first real relationship broke because we discovered our likings at the same time - guess what, we were both submissive and into pain, but neither of us wanted to "hurt" or dominate the other, it just felt horribly wrong. Looking for things outside the relationship was not an option - we both did not function like that (we were 19 y.o., so no long marriage or whatever was at stake, but the breakup was painful as hell nevertheless).

What I read in some other threads coming from submissive ladies who complained like hell about their vanilla hubbies learning the Dom stuff at such an agonizingly slow pace or refusing completely - I found that very heartless. Your husbands married you vanilla. How would you feel if halfway through a marriage your hubby came to you and said "become something you never were, something you might not even like to be, or else I will cheat on you or leave you, or in the best case demonstrate at every given opportunity that you do not make me happy?"
Sometimes reading those threads I have the feeling that the vanilla spouse´s feeling never get considered.
That sucks. Really. I have no way of putting this nicely.

And apart from that: I can assure whomever that if the man does not like to be a Dom, it will never ever truly satisfy the submissive - it will always feel stale and weak and not genuine, compared with the real thing.

I was lucky enough not to consider anyone vanilla as a spouse ever after that first catastrophic breakup in my life. My heart is with the ones who realized what they are only too late, and no, I don´t have a solution to their problem... What I do know is that, unlike some people might believe, BDSM is not simply a "kink" one can do without... it goes far deeper, and not getting it can make one seriously unhappy.

I would think it fair if such a half-vanilla couple would end the relationship in a non-cruel way, as this way each of the partners (!) has a chance to go and find someone that makes you truly happy, but that´s a choice one has to make for oneself.

[Radiance]

If your partner knows what your going online its not cheating if your hiding the online cyber its cheating,that simple grins

[Ozme52]

Now I have a fabulous secretary at my office ...


HA! That was gonna be my quip. Good one TY

[Ozme52]

It seems to me New1, that you're asking the wrong people the wrong question- as annie pretty much said, you have to work it out yourself whether what she did is acceptable to you.


Oho! Look who's back. Excellent! :wave:






N.B. As forum posts tend to be atonal, please be sure there is no sarcasm intended in the above remark.

[Ozme52]

...

[Stone]

Cheating ......
I will say everyones defination is diffrent......it only matters what the 2 people involved think cheating is and is one opinion is far diffrent than the others then ummmm i dont know what to say to that...

Cheating can mean many things to many people....but if someone is doing it behind your back then that tell me they are not proud of it.......sure cybering doesnt fit the physical standards of cheating but they are fullfilling that physical need without being physical....its definately cheating on a emotional level......they are getting something out of it that they are not getting form their relationship.....

Ok for those compare cybering to stories magazines and dvd's.......well for one none of thsoe things are interactive for 2 the isnt another person involved in anyway 3 when was the last time someone rented a dvd and 3 months later the whole cast of porn sluts showed up at their door sayinf het you rented our dvd awhile back you wanna fuck?
so it is far diffrent that books and movies

[Ozme52]

We all draw the line in different places.

There are plenty of women, and you read about it in a variety of info sources, who still object to their spouses interacting with magazines, videos, strip bars, and all of the previously mentioned 'non-cheating' activities. They claim it's no different.

So it's a little disconcerting to see all of that kind of intolerance here at this site...

I don't mind statements like "I feel cheated when xyz happens."
No, we're seeing "It is cheating when xyz happens."

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same phraseology on other topics...

[delish]

We all draw the line in different places.

There are plenty of women, and you read about it in a variety of info sources, who still object to their spouses interacting with magazines, videos, strip bars, and all of the previously mentioned 'non-cheating' activities. They claim it's no different.

So it's a little disconcerting to see all of that kind of intolerance here at this site...

I don't mind statements like "I feel cheated when xyz happens."
No, we're seeing "It is cheating when xyz happens."

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same phraseology on other topics...

Bold added by me.

This statement made me think about my responses here. I think it's safe to say that it's a problem, at the very least, if one person feels betrayed by the actions of the other person.

I also hope that when I've expressed my thoughts on this subject that it's clear that I am speaking from the position of my own relationship, and I'm pretty sure I said or agreed with someone who said that the definition of cheating is unique to each relationship. Trust is important to me, so I tend to get overly passionate about betrayal of trust, at times. If I have come across as intolerant, I hope that is only an intolerance of the harm one person can do to another, and not of lifestyle choices that are acceptable within a relationship.

[new1]

The debate here has been amazing, lots of good viewpoints from both sides. I appreciate the time that each of you have spent posting and I believe that I can take something from both sides. By the by, we did finally talk, after she read through this posting, and I thought we had made some headway towards a mutual resolution, but some habits die hard and I don't think she's fully committed to our plan.

To be honest I knew nothing of this lifestyle until recently and with our without her I plan to keep learning and hopefully sharing as each of you have done with me.

Thank you,

new1

[Tojo]

Thanks Oz- a couple of my other hangouts seem to be fizzling out, so I'll see how this place is going.

Glad to hear you guys are getting somewhere new1, let us know how it goes.

One thing I don't think I mentioned is that it's easy to forget that a D/s relationship is no different to any other- in the context that it's what two people have to work out between themselves to their mutual satisfaction.

Oh & yes I do believe online can be cheating- it depends on what sort of relationship you have, & as Radiance says:


If your partner knows what your going online its not cheating if your hiding the online cyber its cheating,that simple grins

[fantassy]

I too believe that the line delineating cheating depends upon the rules established by a particular couple. For example, if am in a vanilla relationship and am horny and not getting sex while my significant other is masturbating in the bathroom every night - that is cheating. He is taking something from me - from our relationship without my consent. NOTE- i had to exclude a bdsm relationship because that would be par for the course for a Dom into orgasm control - and would not be cheating - because I had consented.

Similarly, if my relationship is suffering from lack of time and attention, then yes - playing golf could be considered cheating. Because it is cheating me of needed time. However, if my relationship is solid, and playing golf eases the tensions of the week to put my significant other in a better frame of mind when we are together - it is not cheating because it is giving a benefit to the relationship rather than harming it.

fantassy

[Alex Bragi]

...What I read in some other threads coming from submissive ladies who complained like hell about their vanilla hubbies learning the Dom stuff at such an agonizingly slow pace or refusing completely - I found that very heartless. Your husbands married you vanilla. How would you feel if halfway through a marriage your hubby came to you and said "become something you never were, something you might not even like to be, or else I will cheat on you or leave you, or in the best case demonstrate at every given opportunity that you do not make me happy?"
Sometimes reading those threads I have the feeling that the vanilla spouse´s feeling never get considered.
That sucks. Really. I have no way of putting this nicely.

...

Arria, I know you're a nice lady, so I think next time maybe you might just have to try harder to put it "nicely". :)

As Oz pointed out, why do so many people assume that it’s the vanilla partner who must change? And, how many people do you think fear telling their partners about their kinky sides in the first place out of fear of losing them? So often for a good reason too. While bsdm is considered quite the norm, here on this forum, whether you like it or not, it’s not widely accepted in the general community. Many people still consider it sick and abnormal, many spouses, particularly women, would find it quite abhorrent. So, should a partner in that situation just simple, as it’s been suggested here on this thread, “change”?

It’s sad and most unfortunate when two peoples’ sexual wants and needs aren’t the same, but they still just happen to love one another. I reiterate it’s not a simple case of “changing” your partner and it’s not a simple matter of saying “You don’t suit my particular sexual needs, so I’m moving on..”
A relationship, particularly a sexual/love relationship is never one dimensional. We are attracted to, and love, our partners for a whole myriad of reasons. I think it’s all just too easy to be sanctimonious and judgmental when you’re lucky enough to be in a relationship that is practically everything you want and need.

Please, I'm not saying I condone cyber relationships, and I’m not condemning them either as I believe that, in this instance, it’s inappropriate for anyone to espouse an opinion on the wickedness of cyber sex as ultimately each of us must live with the consequences of the choices we make.

[ThisYouWillDo]

Good luck to you both.

[annie]

Arria, I know you're a nice lady, so I think next time maybe you might just have to try harder to put it "nicely". :)

As Oz pointed out, why do so many people assume that it’s the vanilla partner who must change? And, how many people do you think fear telling their partners about their kinky sides in the first place out of fear of losing them? So often for a good reason too. While bsdm is considered quite the norm, here on this forum, whether you like it or not, it’s not widely accepted in the general community. Many people still consider it sick and abnormal, many spouses, particularly women, would find it quite abhorrent. So, should a partner in that situation just simple, as it’s been suggested here on this thread, “change”?

It’s sad and most unfortunate when two peoples’ sexual wants and needs aren’t the same, but they still just happen to love one another. I reiterate it’s not a simple case of “changing” your partner and it’s not a simple matter of saying “You don’t suit my particular sexual needs, so I’m moving on..”
A relationship, particularly a sexual/love relationship is never one dimensional. We are attracted to, and love, our partners for a whole myriad of reasons. I think it’s all just too easy to be sanctimonious and judgmental when you’re lucky enough to be in a relationship that is practically everything you want and need.

Please, I'm not saying I condone cyber relationships, and I’m not condemning them either as I believe that, in this instance, it’s inappropriate for anyone to espouse an opinion on the wickedness of cyber sex as ultimately each of us must live with the consequences of the choices we make.

VERY well said Alex... thank you!

[annie]

We all draw the line in different places.

There are plenty of women, and you read about it in a variety of info sources, who still object to their spouses interacting with magazines, videos, strip bars, and all of the previously mentioned 'non-cheating' activities. They claim it's no different.

So it's a little disconcerting to see all of that kind of intolerance here at this site...

I don't mind statements like "I feel cheated when xyz happens."
No, we're seeing "It is cheating when xyz happens."

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same phraseology on other topics...

You're right Oz... it is disconcerting. Especially considering what the site is and the type of tolerance we either get or don't get and have to fight against, at times on a regular basis.

Amazes me how sometimes what appears to be open mindedness is actually still a very closed minded person... unless you confirm to the person making the judgments standards that is.

[***Kate***]

Is cyber cheating ?
If your Partner dont know and you think you hear a voice in your head saying I think it might be classed as cheating. then there is a good chance that IT IS !!
but hey each to there own.

[annie]

The matter remains that he is unhappy and she does not care, whatever there was before, and whoever is to blame for it.

How do you know she doesn't care? Is she posting in this thread and it is being missed? Or could it be that new1 is so hurt that no matter what she does/says he is looking only at his hurt and anger and discounting anything she does to show that she cares? Just because she cheated may not mean she doesn't care. As I stated before, we are hearing only ONE side of this.


and for my comment about everybody can change it takes time well i serpose that did sound a little one sided

but i have not met man or woman that breaths that if there partner asked them to go out choose them, some little lace outfit ,leather or what ever floats there boat then tells them they can tie them up and have there way with them they would not jump at the chance, i was just saying there is a spark in all of us



I am with D insofar as I don´t actually believe into vanilla people - I think everybody has hidden fantasies one way or another.

I would agree as well that everyone has hidden fantasies... BUT that doesn't mean that some will ever share those fantasies with another human being. Some people never get comfortable and secure enough with themselves to share that part. No matter what the other partner does. Therefore some will never change, at least not on that subject, based on their up bringing, social conditioning, own insecurities, etc.

[Arria]

I would appreciate it greatly if whoever cites me would bother to take enough time and attention to go through everything I posted in here - not only the parts they disliked. Thanks.

[sidhewolf]

Please respond your opinion on cyber...

Hello New1 and All~

I've read your question, and over all the responses. In the past I've posted topic here along similar lines. The general consensus is that Cyber is Cheating IF a) you are in a Relationship AND b)that Relationship does not allow it, or it violates Agreements in some way. But in my experience there is far more to it than that. Different PPL cyber for different reasons. For some it's boredom, some lonliness, some have no real time interaction with a live Human, for some it's like porn. There are probably as many reasons as there are PPL.

My experience with this problem is that you and your Partner are different PPL with different thoughts and opinions. This is one area you and Partner don't agree on. You feel it's Cheating, she doesn't. All the opinions here are great in their own way I think, and it's good to ask for and get them. Might help your own perspective in sorting these things for yourself? Now where to go from here?

My thoughts are determine your own Bottom Line on them for yourself. It is You who has to decide if this is something you can accept about your Partner, or at least learn to tolerate it? As it appears by your post this is something she intends to continue even Knowing your feelings about it. And just to mention also that just because she doesn't intend to stop doing something she enjoys just because you don't like or feel comfortable with it, doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't care about you or your feelings. Perhaps it just means this is How she is? Maybe she has been involved in cyber long before you and it is one of the ways she interacts and sees it as harmless? Maybe there are other reasons? But they aren't likely to do with you at all.

The Bottom Line in this is that she intends to continue, and you have to decide for You if you can deal with it or not?

On the other hand, I Hope she's paying her own big cell phone bills for Her activity? <G>.

<Hugs> New1. This can be a tough one depending.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[Stone]

well like i said before this will go back to the online vs real life debate ............i am a real life dom sure i may play online and laugh and kid and joke...but to have an entire relationship this just seem a bit silly and makes me question both peoples motives on both sides of it......if they are single why not take the next step?.......if married and want out ..why not do just that...........to be married and not have the balls to say they want out and get what they want.......so basically they are selfish people who only care of themslefs if they want to keep it online...sure i can understand being married to a vanilla person that has no intrest in it......thats where they need to step up and say hey i either get what i want or we get a divorce or they will deal with it and be vanilla...i could never have just an online relationship i need the touch of flesh ect its ummmm way more enjoyable that way to me......now the ugly side of this the same people who do this form of cheating on their vanilla spouce...will often defend an online relationship with things like ...it is very real.......stuff klike that....but once they get cause by their spouce the first thing out of their mouths is.....its only on line it is not real ect......and these are the ones i hate the most pick a side any side dont try to play both.......

[Tojo]

Excellent post delia. It's far too easy to misunderstand someone's words when you're reading a line of text on a screen.

It's also pretty easy for someone to post without thinking, or when they've just had the dog chew up their slippers- a bit of tolerance goes a long way.

[ThisYouWillDo]

well like i said before this will go back to the online vs real life debate ............i am a real life dom sure i may play online and laugh and kid and joke...but to have an entire relationship this just seem a bit silly and makes me question both peoples motives on both sides of it......if they are single why not take the next step?.......if married and want out ..why not do just that...........to be married and not have the balls to say they want out and get what they want.......so basically they are selfish people who only care of themslefs if they want to keep it online...sure i can understand being married to a vanilla person that has no intrest in it......thats where they need to step up and say hey i either get what i want or we get a divorce or they will deal with it and be vanilla...i could never have just an online relationship i need the touch of flesh ect its ummmm way more enjoyable that way to me......now the ugly side of this the same people who do this form of cheating on their vanilla spouce...will often defend an online relationship with things like ...it is very real.......stuff klike that....but once they get cause by their spouce the first thing out of their mouths is.....its only on line it is not real ect......and these are the ones i hate the most pick a side any side dont try to play both.......

I've been happily married for 36 years (come April) to a vanilla woman for whom even normal sex has never been important. I would do anything rather than hurt her.

However, if I know I can do something and not get caught out, I might very well let myself do it. I know that makes me a cheat, but I can live with that. It's better than picking sides and losing what I have, or going without what I want.

In all those years, life has never been as conveniently black or white for me, Master Stone, as it seems to be for you.

TYWD.

[Isabelle90]

Even if/when two people "agree" to something like a cyber relationship outside of the r/l relationship, one of the parties might change their mind later.

For instance, when passwords get stolen and private correspondance is read, the content can be misinterpreted and cause the "thief" to.....oh, say.....file for divorce, threaten to use the lifestyle to gain custody of one's child, and rescind on all previously agreed terms.

So, how much of the cyber should be disclosed? Should a person disclose every detail of conversations exchanged by every single person they come in contact with? I understand that cyber goes a bit deeper, but if a cyber relationship is acceptable in the beginning, should the third party then be allowed to change their minds?

(Obviously there is more to this, but there just isn't enough space on this forum!! LOL)

[ThisYouWillDo]

I don't know at what point the 3rd party should be able to change his/her mind about an agreement: any time at all, I guess. But what s/he cannot do is use conduct prior to his/her recission against the other party because that was done with his/her approval or consent.

[ThisYouWillDo]

<Deleted - repeat of previous post>

[Arria]

Of course it is always possible to change one´s mind, people develop, people do change over time.
If both partners know what is going on, I think there will be no problem unless one of the parties think the "online other" starts to get more priority/affection/attention/time than the real life partner.

I think real life should always have priority. Hubby allows me to play online, but I am not to wear anybody´s online collar or obey orders that go deeper than what is possible during an online scene. He is the only one to whose will I will (and am allowed to) submit, and that´s fine with me, I would not want it any other way; and I am deeply grateful that he puts no more restrictions on me. After all, it´s him who gets the benefits in all ways *laughs*.
Should it ever happen that he fears something in here is going to deep and he wants me to stop it, I would do so - I might not be overly happy about it, but I will obey.
Again, real life always should have priority - in my opinion.

About what Isabelle90 said about a partner trying to use online world issues to gain custody of a child - I have known this to happen to an acquaintance, and she was only too lucky as the judge said he knew that page (another forum page) as well, and he did not see what that had to to with her abilities as a mother. So she did not have to suffer any consequences.
Especially regarding this issue I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for parents to keep parts of the lifestyle away from their children - the parts that might confuse, scare, or shock them. The parents among you might know that the idea of one´s parents having vanilla sex is weird enough at a certain age - let alone anything kinky or violent!

[Mr.J]

so how would all them doms and subs out there feel if they found emails letters and pics or what ever of there vanilla partners cybering because they dont feel loved understood or enuff time has been spent with them ? people think about life for them

[mkemse]

if i had a signifigantother and in an open relastionship, i would disucss it with her ato see how she felt, but i would also know that my signifigant otherwould have thesame feelings and beliefs that i do or we probably would not be together to startwith, do i think cybering is cheating, no there si not physical contact and to me you have to have physical contatct to cal it chearting, but this is only my belief, to my cybering is fantasy nothing more nothing less if it became RL then yes it would be cheating because phyiscal contact would be involved to me the key is physical contact

[ThisYouWillDo]

so how would all them doms and subs out there feel if they found emails letters and pics or what ever of there vanilla partners cybering because they dont feel loved understood or enuff time has been spent with them ? people think about life for them

I'd think, Aha! There's hope ...

TYWD

[tessa]

Everyone has differing opinions and they are strewn all throughout this forum. A search on cheating may turn up some interesting posts.
And too many of them, at that. They should be combined into one big ol' cheating thread, call it the 'Blame Game'.


so how would all them doms and subs out there feel if they found emails letters and pics or what ever of there vanilla partners cybering

I'd think, Aha! There's hope ...

Brilliantly stated, TYWD. :)

[Mr.J]

lol yes a dom would love to find out there is shit going on behind there back they have no control over

[sidhewolf]

Of course it is always possible to change one´s mind, people develop, people do change over time.
If both partners know what is going on, I think there will be no problem unless one of the parties think the "online other" starts to get more priority/affection/attention/time than the real life partner.

I think real life should always have priority. Hubby allows me to play online, but I am not to wear anybody´s online collar or obey orders that go deeper than what is possible during an online scene. He is the only one to whose will I will (and am allowed to) submit, and that´s fine with me, I would not want it any other way; and I am deeply grateful that he puts no more restrictions on me. After all, it´s him who gets the benefits in all ways *laughs*.
Should it ever happen that he fears something in here is going to deep and he wants me to stop it, I would do so - I might not be overly happy about it, but I will obey.
Again, real life always should have priority - in my opinion.

About what Isabelle90 said about a partner trying to use online world issues to gain custody of a child - I have known this to happen to an acquaintance, and she was only too lucky as the judge said he knew that page (another forum page) as well, and he did not see what that had to to with her abilities as a mother. So she did not have to suffer any consequences.
Especially regarding this issue I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for parents to keep parts of the lifestyle away from their children - the parts that might confuse, scare, or shock them. The parents among you might know that the idea of one´s parents having vanilla sex is weird enough at a certain age - let alone anything kinky or violent!

Another usefull to the original poster thought line I think Arria. PPL do "develop" or Grow over Time. So another aspect of this dilemma *could be* that the online activities could turn into RT or ITF Relationship(s). IF this happens is the Person or the PPL that are connected to the Cyber relator willing or interested in expanding their Relationship to include some else? Or possibly be replaced by them? Something that is always a risk in opening a Relationship to more than 2 PPL.

There are always PPL looking for someone for themselves online, just as in RT. And many of these don't give a care that the person they are talking/Cybering with is Already in a Relationship. This is so common that in Polyville there is a term for these....we call these Cowboys or Cowgirls. ie Those who would cut a filly or colt from the herd.

Something to also consider when considering Accepting a Partner who is into Cyber Relating I think.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

so how would all them doms and subs out there feel if they found emails letters and pics or what ever of there vanilla partners cybering because they dont feel loved understood or enuff time has been spent with them ? people think about life for them

I'd Hope they would Realize they had reaped what they had sewn?....pehaps a bit to late depending?....but none the less. There is Lessons in everything for those willing to Learn isn't there?

Vanilla Partner's, LifeStyle Partner's, whatever Style Partner's...if one does not give enough to that Relationship esp because one is involved in other O/L or RT ITF Relationship's, one WILL eventually lose That Relationship. A consequence of irresponsibility I believe. If one cannot Manage more than one Relationship successfully, perhaps it's a good idea not to have or create more than one can Manage Time and Quality for?

Everyone makes their Choices. Even not Choosing is a Choice.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

lol yes a dom would love to find out there is shit going on behind there back they have no control over

<G> Not for point of argument....but a Dom who ignores Their Responsibility and pushes a Sub or Slave to meet their own needs elsewhere has made that Choice conciously or not. When a Dom abdicates Their Throne the Subjects will scatter seeking One to Take it.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[Wedjat]

I think D and sidhewolf have made some good points. I got the feeling reading this that some tried to kind of gloss over some of D's comments - forgive me if I have misinterpreted what was said, but I'm glad that someone expanded on what D originally brought up. I know ALL relationships take care and attention by both parties.

One of my vanilla sisters and her husband had a problem a while back. She has medical issues that make the physical acts of even vanilla sex difficult (back and neck issues) and she found out he was cybering and getting kind of serious with a lady online. She was devastated, and he felt like shit when he realized how it had made her feel. In this case it wasn't even the physical act (the online lady in question lived in another country), but the emotional hurt it caused. So, yeah, cyber CAN feel like cheating. The sad thing is, I can see both sides of their issue too - he obviously had issues that she couldn't meet and they were drifting apart. The upside - they've come through it and have gotten closer for it, but it wasn't easy. Now if they only had insurance that would cover the chronic pain in her back. I know, it's only one example,but I figured it was worth mentioning.

[Ozme52]

...

[cadence]

...

Ditto

[Sir Robert]

Please respond your opinion on cyber...

Many times cyber relationships become very close and intimate. Cyber mates share their darkest secrets and often totally open and participate in spectacular sexual fantasies. I agree that if done outside of your normal relationship it is cheating. However that being said I love it.....

[Tojo]

I find it interesting that people have such heated opinions & emotions about a topic like cyber cheating... makes you wonder about everyone's life experiences & current relationships... hmmmm

Oh I don't find it suprising- if you're in an exclusive relationship, surely you don't want your partner to be sharing passion with others behind your back in any way?

[ThisYouWillDo]

Oh I don't find it suprising- if you're in an exclusive relationship, surely you don't want your partner to be sharing passion with others behind your back in any way?

No - but I can

[Ozme52]

Oh I don't find it suprising- if you're in an exclusive relationship, surely you don't want your partner to be sharing passion with others behind your back in any way?

Why not? It steals nothing from me.

It's not like there's a limited supply and any given elsewhere leaves less for me.