Leaving marks- please weigh in

[delish]

I've read repeatedly in places that without proper training, it's dangerous when marks are left. I've read all manner of marks are dangerous; welts, bruising, bites, burns, etc. My interest is in welts via spanking and bruising via pinching. What exactly does He (my husband) need to know before he can do these things to me without the high risk of permanent damage? Are there resources you can think of? Advice? Is it really that dangerous? Please weigh in on the subject, if you would be so kind. Thank you so much in advance for any thoughts on the matter. I'm interested in personal views and experiences in getting to that point (whichever it may be).

My tone is intended to be respectful, so if I've somehow been offensive (or put this in the wrong place, or overlooked a resource that is quite obvious to everyone but me), please let me know right away so we can clear it up. I feel sort of like I'm sneaking into forbidden territory or something!

[crazy_grrluk]

mmmmmm loves the bruises and marks that S1 leaves on me.

[delish]

Hi there delish. Here's a thread http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14037 that talks a little about marking...

In general, bruising occurs when blood capillaries under the surface of the skin are broken. This can happen with the force of the blow, or the pinpoint of, say, a needle, because the blood rushes into the area to "plug the wound." Bruising isn't necessarily dangerous, but it is something to think about before doing. Bruising is your body's visible way of telling you it was "injured"--bruising requires various wound healing mechanisms of the body & thus takes resources away from other areas. If you are diabetic, have a heart condition, etc, bruising intentionally can be pretty dangerous, so definitely take extra care.

A lot of people say "Oh, I absolutely love the bruising" but repeated & prolonged bruising over one area of your body can have a marked effect on your body's attempt to wound heal, and eventually, can lead to more severe bruising and issues with your health.

Advice? Play hard, but play safe. If you are intentionally bruising, be VERY VERY VERY careful--what it takes for 1 person to bruise isn't what it takes for another. Some people would require an unsafe amount of hitting to get the "desired result". Also, some people don't bruise for 24-48 hr after play. If it hurts, stop. You've probably done enough.

Good luck, play safe!

delia

Bold added by me. I know what you mean, but that line made me giggle just a little.

I actually originally posted my question in the thread you mentioned, but thought it was detracting from the intent of the original poster, which I didn't want to do, so I started this thread in the hopes of hearing some opinions- and I highly appreciate yours.

It tends to take more for me to bruise, so I'll be careful about suggesting it too often (as I know he won't overdo). I'm not as interested in that as I am the marks left by spankings. I know there are basic safety rules applied to spanking in general (careful of the spine! and such), but I think it would be lovely to have a visible reminder for some time after the event. (Well... I think that NOW, anyway. He always tells me to be careful what I ask for.)

Thank you again!

[Sir_Russell]

Use salves and things on any marks. I spank mine a lot and have never had problems but then I know what I am doing and pay very close attention.

Some of the more extreme ways of leaving marks can cause a lot of trouble. Those should be avoided or the very least done infrequently. These in my opinion would include bullwhips, canes, narrow paddles, split bamboo, and abrasions devices. Use them sparingly if you enjoy them with lots of after care

[theladystouch]

I have a related question about marks. I've never seen the results of a flogging using a horsetail flogger, but I understand it can cut the skin and/or leave permanent marks. Is my information correct?

[delish]

Just to make sure I'm understanding: Repeated bruising (or prolonged bruising force) to an area can cause issues with the body's ability to heal itself properly. Dangerous implements (particularly thin, bendy ones, akin to a cane) should be off the table without a demonstration of how to properly use it (hmm. That could be interesting). Use lotion and/or topicals on any and all wounds, including abrasions, welts, and breaking of the skin. Unintentional breaking of the skin is a mishandling of the implement.

If this is all correct, I have a few more questions: Is breaking the skin (even once in a while) using an implement of spanking (or what have you) ever a sound idea?

Is it considered reasonably safe to leave red(or whatever color) marks via spanking (hand or other method) which can be seen for the next day or so?

Do these sound like really basic questions that I should already know? I don't want to be wasting anybody's time, I just want to make sure that he's comfortable that we're playing safely.

[***Kate***]

Greetings,
thought this might be of some intrest.
Safe Targets >>>>
http://no****ace.like.home.mindspring.com/abbot/articles/jl980119.htm

[***Kate***]

http://no****ace.like.home.mindspring.com/abbot/articles/jl980119.htm

[***Kate***]

Greetings
seems as that link wont work.

http://no. place. like. home.mindspring.com/abbot/articles/jl980119.htm

take out the spaces and see if that works.

[Sir_G]

Use salves and things on any marks. I spank mine a lot and have never had problems but then I know what I am doing and pay very close attention.

Some of the more extreme ways of leaving marks can cause a lot of trouble. Those should be avoided or the very least done infrequently. These in my opinion would include bullwhips, canes, narrow paddles, split bamboo, and abrasions devices. Use them sparingly if you enjoy them with lots of after care

I second what Sir Russell has said. I have an enormous amount of respect for the man. He's been involved with the lifestyle for probably more years than he cares to admit and wasn't voted "Most Knowledgeable" for his obvious good looks.

Always be safe, sane and consensual. Know your limits and if you are going to stretch them your Dom needs to be watching very carefully and most of all you need to let him know as best you are able where you are really at in terms of pain threshhold.

Good luck and above all enjoy, have fun and lots of orgasms. *smile*.

[delish]

Thank you, Kate- I will check out that link!

Sir_G, I appreciate you vouching for Sir_Russell's knowledge. (It's not that I doubted, particularly given the accolades, but 3rd party praise is always a good thing in my book.) I hope I didn't sound glib in my post where I repeated back what I was reading- that was not my intention at all. I wanted to make sure that I understood what was said and that I wasn't missing any important points.

I don't have a problem with my husband leaving marks (I probably want them more than he wants to leave them, though I don't presume to make that call for certain), so it is 100% consentual. I don't know how sane we are, but I don't think I'm aiming for anything that would get us locked up. :) So my primary concern with all of this is to make sure we are being as safe as possible- and it's not listed first (in SSC) for nothing!

I know you said to let him know where I'm at with my pain threshold as best as I can, and phrased it that way for a reason, but I do have to say that your reasoning is valid here- My pain threshold changes enormously when I hit just the right spot in subspace, and if he doesn't do something that will jostle me right out of it, I sometimes barely feel things that would have me begging him to stop when I'm not in that space.

I wonder if that's unusual? To have such a drastic change from my normal responses in subspace, I mean- I know there's a noticable change, but... well, I suppose that varies from person to person.

Thank you all again for the responses. Sir_G, I am definately taking your advice to heart! (Especially the having fun part!)

[Sir_Russell]

To stay out of trouble with the law I highly recommend you level with your doctor now. Tell him what you two are into, explain that you do SM play and ask him if he can deal with that or recommend anyone that can. This has to be done in a professional setting so that he has to keep it private.

Later when you need him or her to help you can tell the Doc how much you enjoyed and get help that you need.

[delish]

Oh, wow. First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond again Sir_Russell, as I do value your knowledge. That being said... I don't think we'll be doing anything I'd require medical care for. I would be very uncomfortable telling my doctor about this- he has been my doctor for probably over 15 years, since I was quite young, and he is a close family friend- he makes house calls, and comes over for Christmas dinner with my family. I can't explain why the thought rubs me the wrong way, because it's not like he's conservative, but I do think it would startle him.

Does it help in a legal sense that my mother knows? She and I have always been extremely close, and I was in a relationship that I suspected might cause bruising that she would notice, and I didn't want to alarm her- I must've sent her to a thousand websites to try and understand, heh, and I think that might've made her more freaked out. But she does know. (Though I was quite disappointed that I didn't get the alarming bruises at the time)

I'm really not talking about using canes and whips, just some lasting marks now and then.

That's not to say that I would never, under any circumstances, tell my doctor about our lifestyle, but if I can avoid it, I'd just as soon do that.

[Sir_Russell]

hmmm. I do not mean to insult you but like many newbees you forget that the problem is not the scene we plan it is when things go wrong. That is when you need a Doctor to depend on.

You may want a second Doctor just for those unfortunate times that I hope never happen to you.

[delish]

I don't feel insulted, though we've been r/l for over 2 years now and while we've not ventured far into certain paths, I still feel fairly well-informed. So maybe a little stung by 'newbie', though it's quite probably well deserved, and I'm not upset at all.

I didn't mean to imply that scenes never go wrong, I just meant that in my mind, we haven't done anything particularly dangerous. I realize that no matter what, things can go wrong, so I will definately discuss with my husband letting my doctor in on what we do. Also, I realize that by looking for some lasting marks, I'm pushing to an edgier place, but I'd still like to stay far enough away from the edge that we're not being unsafe.

I'm also in no way trying to reject your advice or frustrate you to the point of not bothering anymore, but it seems like I've made it sound like I want him to buy a bullwhip (never handling one before) and use it on me until I pass out, or something dire. Even had he wielded a bullwhip throughout his formative years, I think I'd have to pass on that one. :) I'm wondering if my comment about how drastically my pain tolerance changes when I hit subspace was alarming? My main interest in this is taking spankings and just intensifying them-- making them longer and harder. Again, my intent in emphasizing this isn't to be disrespectful in any way, I just want to be sure that we are talking about the same activities. I don't want scars or even a bruise to last for weeks; I want to wince when I sit down the next day or so. If I've been miscommunicating that, I apologize. Likewise, if it's still as serious as it sounds, I apologize if it seems like I'm minimizing your advice or rejecting what you're saying. I'm not. It just seems like we might be thinking of different levels of severity, you know? (Am I making sense?) I very much appreciate your time and patience (because I know I can be quite maddening at times).

Also, Kate, I did get to that flogging article, and it was an interesting read, for sure. I was surprised the shoulder blade area was green. Thank you for that resource.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm worried that it may seem like I'm answering back too quickly, without giving it proper thought- my reason for quick responses IS to be respectful, because I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond here, and I'm not just blowing through the things that have been expressed- I am continuing to think on them.

[Sir_Russell]

delish,

I am not much of a sadist but even with me things go wrong, I have learned to plan for things going wrong. I have quick release clips I use with chains and a set of bolt cutters near by, a razor knife in case I am using rope.

That has saved the lady I was with from real unexpected pain and worse on more then one occasion. I plan for things to go wrong and that is all I am advising you and all others to do.

A trip to the ER is no fun and they will report to the authorities what they consider suspicious things.

I certainly wasn't trying to insult you just preach a lesson that I think is very important even if you have 20 years in the life.

[delish]

Sir_Russell, I appreciate your input, and I hope it's clear that I'm not insulted. I do not take anything you say lightly, as your experience is obvious. I would hate for there to be a legal misunderstanding, and will bring it up with my husband.
There doesn't seem to be much concern in this thread over a few marks, so long as it is occasional and not due to severe torture or anything. I'm quite happy about that, and will take the precautions necessary as well as make sure aftercare is tended to. :)

Like I said, referring to me as a newbie was probably deserved, so if I seem to be blindly skipping into dangerous territory and anyone notices (I say 'notice' not to be insulting, but because I don't expect anyone but Him to be constantly aware of my status/choices/etc), I am grateful for well-intentioned guidance; I am always willing to learn and grow. Thank you again! I do know time is valuable, and I am very grateful to everyone who devoted some of theirs to my concerns.

[Whippett]

Use salves and things on any marks. I spank mine a lot and have never had problems but then I know what I am doing and pay very close attention.

Some of the more extreme ways of leaving marks can cause a lot of trouble. Those should be avoided or the very least done infrequently. These in my opinion would include bullwhips, canes, narrow paddles, split bamboo, and abrasions devices. Use them sparingly if you enjoy them with lots of after care

I agree in principle Russell - harder implements - or those with a high terminal velocity are not safe in untrained hands. If you wish to use whips (bull, signal or cat), learn how to wield it on an inanimate target first - learning control and finesse. The lovely popping sound a whip makes is a result of the tip traveling above the speed of sound. You generally do not want to consistently hit your sub at over 700 mph - you'll cut her badly and can leave some very nasty scars. Learn to time the impact of the tip to just after the pop, when the speed of the tip has dropped considerably.

In terms of whips (and this is my perspective, others are free to disagree) - once you have learned how to use it well, more frequent use is feasible - just not over the same part of the body every time - and never days of hard strokes in succession. My girl always wears fresh stripes - they take a day or two to fade, but some part of her body has fresh whip stripes all the time, unless, for some reason we have not been able to play (illness, for example). However, unless she moves unexpectedly when a stroke is in progress, I don't raise welts or bruises, or break the skin. I prefer daily play - and find that by being careful in how I administer strokes, we can and do play daily...we would not be able to do that if I raised bruises. welts or cut her, since I refuse to administer the whip when there is skin trauma. I also address a different part of her body with the whip on subsequent days - perhaps her back today, her breasts and belly the next, her bottom and thighs the third, though I do use my hand, a flog or crop on whipped areas that are 'out of play' at the moment.

The real key - is practice, practice, practice until you can land a stroke precisely where you want it to go consistently, avoid deep trauma to the skin, stay away from easily damaged parts of the anatomy, and above all, know your slave/sub well what she can tolerate and what she cannot, what is likely to trigger an unexpected reaction, and how her body responds in terms of bruising and marks. And understand when aesthetics may be counter-productive. I had a girl once who just didn't bruise unless you were on the edge of bruising muscle. While stripes or a deep rosy mottling might have looked good on her - getting her to that point was too close to the edge of doing serious damage - so she was never taken beyond a pink glow. She was a delicate girl - but she had a hide like a rhinocerous - lol.

I am much less fond of canes or split bamboo - and use them sparingly - and refuse to go to the point of welts...and the paddles I prefer have a large surface area and are less traumatic to the skin.

After-care is vital, as Russell says - regardless of the implement used - even a friendly otk deserves after-care - - and after-care is highly enjoyable too.