Dommes

[subserviant]

Why r there so few Mistress ,I dont think there r more than 1or 2 in chat . In r/l thats all one see's .There are even fewer for female subs like myself in fact, none that ican see at least in the chat room . Is it because women are by their nature are more submissive * i'll hide behind sub couch so the feminest boots thrown will miss me* in all the websites its Mistress looking for sub males but not in here

[Ozme52]

Perhaps.... but the ratio of subs to doms is often quoted as 10:1

Who knows how high that goes if you eliminate the inexperienced and posers.

[Sir_Russell]

your very right Oz, I know a man that could either way and thankfully he is listening and learning from me. I have hope to turn him into a good competent Dom, not a clone of me because we have very different desires but that is too be expected.

Those few of us that are real truly owe it to the Life to mentor and teach. I would say that the numbers you quoted are off by 50% that there are 20 subs or potential subs out there for each Dom that is really interested in the sub as a person not as fresh meat.

[mikkey sub]

I would like to know the name of those web sites you mentioned Subseviant because as a male sub I want to fine a Mistress of my own too but i think it takes time and rightfully so..I will wish us both luck.

[***Kate***]

Is it because women are by their nature are more submissive
in a word NO!!!

* i'll hide behind sub couch so the feminest boots thrown will miss me
like we would miss. lol

[TomOfSweden]

I think there's so few dominant women because of two factors.

1) There seems to be some sort of human instinct for being either submissive or dominant. Nobody had been able to nail it exactly in science. But there's plenty of related phenomena in all human societies. This thing with people very often being drawn to strong leaders. The whole celebrity thing. There's a huge amount of historical events which cannot be explained any other way. Most people just seem to be subservient by nature. Nietzsche had a thing or two to say about it. and no philosopher after him has really been able to budge that idea.

Also all monkeys display this kind of behaviour, and we're basically naked apes... so it would be pretty silly to think it didn't apply to us as well.

2) The systematic patriarchal oppression of women. Sure, women could be naturally more inclined toward submissiveness, but that is not my experience. The dominant women I've met in my professional life seem more than anything just frustrated about prevailing male values. I don't think it is dominant men who are responsible for keeping women down.

So basically, there are few doms to begin with, and the few dominant women there are have to fight all of society just to maintain sanity. Joining any kind of fringe group in society, like the BDSM scene, does require that you've got your shit together. I can imagine that a lot of dominant women, just don't like the extra stress. And it's not like it isn't submissive guys falling out of the trees. The few dominant women hardly have to look hard, and certainly doesn't have to search web sites for men. Not in any kind of non-professional agreement.

Because I'm a kinky party promoter, (deka dance.se) I come into contact a lot with dominant women. I'd say that their main annoyance is men's inability to submit like sub women do. And their re-occruing tendency to have a meltdown and flee into freedom. This I put down as 100% culture. Groveling for a woman as a man has some serious cultural hurdles to overcome. Still.

[bondsman]

That's very interesting, Tom. It's something I haven't thought of ... anthropologically. But I'm not sure what you mean about "men's inability to submit like sub women do." As far as how far they'll go or how devoted they are? I consider myself very emotionally submissive, but my limits are probably a bit tighter than many of the fine people on this site.

[Hime]

I agree with Tom, but I think there is also more to it than that.

A well-known dom blogger has a theory that I think makes a lot of sense. She thinks that more women would enjoy being dominant if they didn't have such a strong cultural association between "dominant woman" and "a tall, thin, Barbie-type woman in uncomfortable PVC clothes and six-inch heels, waving a bullwhip in the air." The pop-culture idea of the "dominatrix" is a male fantasy, not a female one, so most naturally dominant women aren't really turned on by the idea of becoming that fantasy. Just like the gay person who spends years thinking "but I can't be gay! I don't act gay!", the dominant woman might take a long time to realize that the urge to dominate a partner is not one and the same with the urge to wear thigh-high stiletto boots.

Also, subservient, I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but I'm a woman who enjoys dominating other women (okay, I'm bi and a switch, so I can pretty much pinch-hit in any emergency :D). I also spend way too much time futzing around online. So send me a PM if you want to chat anytime. :)

[Hime]

That's very interesting, Tom. It's something I haven't thought of ... anthropologically. But I'm not sure what you mean about "men's inability to submit like sub women do." As far as how far they'll go or how devoted they are? I consider myself very emotionally submissive, but my limits are probably a bit tighter than many of the fine people on this site.

There are some amazing male subs out there, but I have noticed that it has been hard for some submissive men, who really want to submit, to entirely let go of the cultural programming that tells men to be the most aggressive person in the room and to focus on what they want above everything else. For instance, I've seen a "submissive" guy in a club crawl on his knees after a girl, getting in her face when it was clear that she wasn't interested in dominating him. That kind of behavior can be frustrating for women who want to be in control.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being too harsh on men here. As a woman who has always been a "daddy's girl" and grew up wanting to be like her very proud father, it has been a real struggle for me to submit sometimes. I don't want to let go of my pride and my independence even when I know that that's what I need in order to be happy. I can only imagine what it's like for men who have a lifetime of being told that they have to be "tough" behind them.

[underwhere]

I'd like to offer my own unique male perspective.


There are some amazing male subs out there, but I have noticed that it has been hard for some submissive men, who really want to submit, to entirely let go of the cultural programming that tells men to be the most aggressive person in the room and to focus on what they want above everything else.

I'm sure this is partly true, but I think there is more to it than that. For example, there are some (perhaps many) men who feel very uncomfortable in this "cultural domination" role. I've always been a highly emotional guy. Even as a young child, the socialization that "boys don't cry" never did anything for me. When I felt hurt, I was sure to have a meltdown of some variety or another, and honestly, at that time, it didn't take much of anything to hurt me. I was a social outcast in many ways as a result of many circumstances simply related to my individual situation, and I lacked any understanding of how to change that or how to better my own social standing while still having to deal with my rather particular social limitations. As a result, that "cultural programming" you are writing about never worked on me. (If you want to know more about the specifics of my social limitations, send me a Private Message and I'll be sure to share. I'd just rather not do so here on the forum.)

At the same time, as I'm exploring this facet of myself now, I can also tell you that, again because of my circumstances, even the very idea of submitting is, on some level, just about the scariest thing possible I can think of for myself, and yet I know I need to do so for myself. I've recognized that it is really important for me to find some element of my life that it is "safe" and "okay" to let somebody else take the reins for me. Am I scared? Yes, very much so. Do I trust my Domme enough to take me there when we are able to meet? Absolutely. Have we met yet in person? No, but I'm very much looking forward to that opportunity when it presents itself, and I trust her enough to know that she will not hurt me any more than it would be safe for me to be "hurt".


I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being too harsh on men here. As a woman who has always been a "daddy's girl" and grew up wanting to be like her very proud father, it has been a real struggle for me to submit sometimes. I don't want to let go of my pride and my independence even when I know that that's what I need in order to be happy.

I've tried for probably my whole life to strive against being submissive. I always wanted to be in control of my independence. Frankly, I still do struggle against my submissive tendencies in some ways because I still want to be independent, but I'm completely convinced that I also NEED a safe place, a safe relationship, to explore the idea that its okay for me to let go of my personal social edginess. I don't always want to be socially on guard all of the time.


I can only imagine what it's like for men who have a lifetime of being told that they have to be "tough" behind them.

Not only is it "tough", but it can also be downright confusing.

Long before I turned 18, I was perusing the early internet and many of the s&m/BDSM newsgroups available on Usenet at the time. I knew that I had desires for being a Dom, but I also knew that I probably was not made out to be one. Still, most of my fantasizing at the time revolved around my being a Dom. It wasn't until MUCH later that I realized that, deep down, I was far more of a sub than a Dom. (I remember reading a story as a teenager about a sub enjoying a spanking, and not having any understanding as to why that might be an enjoyable experience. I guess life works in mysterious ways as I am very much looking forward to being spanked now.) I call myself now a switch as I still have such thoughts and desires, but I truly believe that I am far more subbie than I am Dom based upon my more recent thoughts on the matter.

[reensie]

You are right, there is a big shortage of female-oriented Dommes.
A pity, but true.

[fetishdj]

With the 'male sub' thing in mind... it is worth mentioning that many men who are dominant in real life often have submissive tendencies, almost as if they are trying to balance out the dominance they have in life. I've also noticed this in women - some women who are in dominant positions in work often have submissive tendencies in private.

[gemmy]

With the 'male sub' thing in mind... it is worth mentioning that many men who are dominant in real life often have submissive tendencies, almost as if they are trying to balance out the dominance they have in life. I've also noticed this in women - some women who are in dominant positions in work often have submissive tendencies in private.

The same is said for female submissives so I think it's a 'submissive' trait not gender specific ;)

[Ayn]

in all the websites its Mistress looking for sub males but not in here

*pounces* What websites?!

I'm a straight male sub in desperate need of a mistress, and yeah, I can't find any. The only I found want female pets... I'm so unwanted! *dramatic sob*

[fetishdj]

A well-known dom blogger has a theory that I think makes a lot of sense. She thinks that more women would enjoy being dominant if they didn't have such a strong cultural association between "dominant woman" and "a tall, thin, Barbie-type woman in uncomfortable PVC clothes and six-inch heels, waving a bullwhip in the air." The pop-culture idea of the "dominatrix" is a male fantasy, not a female one, so most naturally dominant women aren't really turned on by the idea of becoming that fantasy. Just like the gay person who spends years thinking "but I can't be gay! I don't act gay!", the dominant woman might take a long time to realize that the urge to dominate a partner is not one and the same with the urge to wear thigh-high stiletto boots.


I think the cultural theory is likely to be correct. By the normal rules, the distribution of traits in the 'dominance/submissive' axis *should* be following a normal distribution - like most other biological and psychological factors. This is assuming that it is left alone, without social factors to influence it. There is no true, 1/0 dominant/submissive binary set up but degrees of each trait. What we call 'truly dominant' and 'truly submissive' are probably the 95th percentiles at each end of the scale. By the mathematics of normal/bell curve distributions this means there are very few people who have that level.

Now, with women and men seperately, you may see a slight skew in one direction or another due to societal factors - cultural pressures to be more dominant (if a man) or more submissive (if a woman). Even though the feminist movement happened over 30 years ago now, the traces of these old prejudices are still out there influencing this. The tide, however, is turning and I hope to see a restoration of situation where there is no gender based skew.

There has also been a perception that Dommes are 'the playthings of rich men' who are paid for thier services. This is a completely false image (which is not helped by the title 'Mistress' hence why some lifestylers prefer alternate titles) but it is an image which is out there and influencing younger women who may be interested in the lifestyle. The 'glorified prostitute' image will be another that is hard to shake and one which I know annoys some lifestyler Dommes.

Finally: training. There are a lot of skills needed to be any form of dominant so to increase the number of Dommes you need to have more education for aspiring Dommes. Maybe we should institute a 'City and Guilds' course... :) Seriously, mentoring and training are important in the lifestyle lest important skills be lost.

[underwhere]

*pounces* What websites?!

I'm a straight male sub in desperate need of a mistress, and yeah, I can't find any. The only I found want female pets... I'm so unwanted! *dramatic sob*

Stop being "desperate" and you might get more responses.

One thing a lot of people don't realize, probably especially male subs (and I had to learn too, so I'm not immune to this comment) is that desperation tends at the other end to breed repulsion, or at the very least, severe caution. Most Doms and Dommes are not looking for a random person to dominate. Most of them are looking for people with some degree of personality and potential long term relationship, not necessarily a sexual relationship, not necessarily a relationship with the sole focus of BDSM. A person committed only to a one time fling or expressing interest in only a BDSM focussed relationship may not be very appealing to many. I'm sure there are some Doms and Dommes out there who are different, but what I am relaying is basically what I have been told by a number of respected people in some of the different communities I have hung out in online.

Yes, I know that online is different from real life, but I do believe that one can learn a lot about a person by observing how they interact with others online over a period of time. Eventually, it is not difficult to determine the fakers from those with a genuine interest. Also, it can be a good learning tool to determine for yourself what type of personality you seem to jibe well with online, because chances are the same type of personality will jibe well with you in person, assuming of course that both you and the other person bring nothing short of sincere and total honesty to the equation.

Keep in mind also that as a male sub looking for a female Domme, you have a tremendous amount of competition with other male subs, and consequently female Dommes have lots of potential pickings from which to choose, so if you really want to get the attention of a Domme, you must make yourself pretty special in some way to draw their interest to you. Like the old expression goes, "beggars can't be choosers." Show some personality, either on the forums, in a chat room, or on a blog. Stop asking incessantly if somebody will dom you. Stop pretending that dominants are a dime a dozen (because dominants really hate being thought of that way). Instead, let the Doms or Dommes know as much about you as you feel comfortable sharing, and the more you feel comfortable sharing, the more honest you appear, the more likely you will attract the attention of that somebody by your actions rather than your words.

This can take a long time, but I am proof that it can be done. I still haven't met my Domme in person yet, but I am confident that when I do, it will be a very positive and memorable experience for me.

Good luck on your continued journey.

[underwhere]

I also forgot to mention, there are a variety of other websites. One in particular which I have found to be very helpful for me in my initiation into the world of s&m/BDSM is http://www.mydungeonspace.com which has a wonderful collection of people and features. I'm sure there are other websites out there, but I can't speak to them as I have had no experience with them personally. I branched out a bit into ALT (http://www.alt.com), but I haven't done a whole lot over there so can't really speak to how well that community works. Others have told me "not well" but I can't speak to that. Another often quoted location is collarme (http://www.collarme.com) which seems to receive rather mixed reviews.

[icey]

Why r there so few Mistress ,I dont think there r more than 1or 2 in chat
maybe its because as a rule women (no offence all you guys) are sometimes a little bit more cautious because of all the wannabees and time wasters? and are often that bit more sensitive towards spotting them early on and prefer to stay out of the 'limelight' and wait for the genuine submissives to make the first move to approach them, i say this because imo one thing women do tend to be more than men is not submisive but naturally more wary! though yes there is a larger ratio of subs to Dom/mes but i also think more and more thats possibly changing due to the times we live in ...just a not very well expressed thought


* i'll hide behind sub couch so the feminest boots thrown will miss me*

*thinks maybe i should join you* lol