BDSM origins

[DOMLORD]

where does the entire idea of hurting/dominating/ect. the ones you love to express love come from (other than the platonic ideal of women)? can we place trace it back to a people or country in history?

[Ozme52]

As a concept? DeSade I imagine. Wrote enough about it to have the term coined after him. And Sacher-Masoch for the flip side.

But as far as how it came to be? The origins of it?
Well the need to dominate and be dominated goes back to the cave imo.
Someone leads, someone follows. Learning how to get along within the group... what we might today call tough love except it includes getting cuffed (hit) with the back of the hand when we make mistakes lest we don't take the lesson seriously...

Yeah, I think it's built into us. 'Modern' social ethics and mores (religions) have drawn us away from our baser instincts.

[gagged_Louise]

There were heretic cults in the Middle ages that seem to have used sex as a means to reach a feeling of unity with the Divine, a feeling of ecstatic, pumping bliss (the Beguines, and the so called Free Spirit movement). It's not easy to say anything precise about what they were doing - they were totally underground, and hunted down by the Church, and their adherents were sometimes tortured and executed, burnt alive - but there are some interrogation protocols and notes on them from people who were writing at the time, and there is a great deal to suggest they did aim for a kind of "psychedelic" free-flow experience, debauchery and freedom from authorities, even any moral authority.
We can only surmise whether they used flogging. dripping with wax etc to get there, but those methods were well known at the time as means of purifying yourself, and some people probably noted the erotic impact, so it's absolutely niot unlikely that the Free Spirit and others sometimes did engage in bdsm rituals to achieve erotic and personal liberation.

Self-torture and ascetic practices go back to ancient times for sure - even the Life of St.Antony, the founder of Christian monasticsim, shows how he put himself into suffering, thirst and sensory deprivation to avoid the temptations of the world - but with those traditions, it's seen more as a way to kill sexual impulse.

[TomOfSweden]

Here's my guess: dawn of time.

I don't think it's a new thing. The new thing is the idea that people enjoy being in equal relationships. I don't buy it for a second. Relationships are never equal. The whole hurting thingy is simply feedback to affirm our various status in the relationship. Which is important for all parties.

I had a long deep discussion about just this with my slave yesterday. So she should get the credit for my theory. This is the first relationship she's had where she has no rights at all and is unconditionally obedient, and she tells me she's never been happier. Go figure.

We have loads of social pressures and perceived norms floating about. Who says the perceived norms is what is normal or healthy?

[sonali]

I heard about ritual flagellations in the cult of Orthia in ancient sparta during 9th century i guess.
According to Kama Sutra scripture, four kinds of "hitting" are allowed during love-making and it clearly suggests that bitting pinching and hitting must be performed consensually as some women may not consider such acts joyful.