a helping hand

[icey]

does anyone here ever want to jump in when subs new to it all are not sure how to 'act'.or are too nervous and feel silly admitting that its all new to them.

im asking because there have been many occasions ive come across people who after reading all the hype and crap on the net believe they have to act in a certain way.we've all been there,and sometimes commonsense just doesnt prevail.

calling everyone Master/Mistress, offering anything and everything both sexual and non,regardless of what they really want or feel simply because they believe they have to.
then generally end up doubting themselves because they find that they feel intimidated and couldnt possibly live up to that and bowing out without ever finding what it really is all about.

then there are those that end up being ignored by genuine people in the lifestyle and dismissed because they believe them to be wannabees and cheap thrill seekers.
and often end up pounced on by the i am Dom/me hear me roar clueless idiots or even worse find themselves,getting hurt, in abusive or dangerous situations or relationships.

i always wish i could say something and try to enlighten (probably the wrong term to use) them a little,but know i cant unless asked and many wont out of shyness nervousness embarrasment...a whole number of reasons ....because they'll probably think im being some pushy interfering know all and ignore anything i might try to say,and it isnt my place to do it.
im not saying im an expert or know whats best,because im not and i dont believe that anyone is as such and we're all different and need different things.

i know there's 'mentors' out there although im not sure how many are actually genuine and whether its a good idea,you cant really teach anyone in reality, and anyway most new-comers often dont know there is such a thing.

a long winded post i know,but havnt you ever been in this position and feel so frustrated at times when you have to bite you're tongue and stay quiet? or do you just jump in and try tactfully to point them in the right direction?

[jeanne]

Good topic, icey. I think that it's hard to know when to offer gentle advice. So many submissives write some version of the following in their introduction:

"Hi I'm <fill in super-cutesy-sexy name here> and I'm 19, blond, blue eyes, 36DD, up for anything except scat and blood, PM me if you wanna chat!"

Of course the use of punctuation, grammar and correct spelling is optional. I want so much to say to those young ladies "Girl, please. I hope you realize (though I doubt it) what you're inviting. If you truly believe you're a sub, slow down! Take your time, get to know people, see where and who you are as a submissive...and the dom for you will find you. If all you want is some kinky thrills, go for it, but at least be careful." So often what happens is they hang around for a few days or weeks and then disappear. What happens to them, I wonder?

I have offered unsolicited advice a couple of times - it's been accepted but not utilized. Oh well. Even submissives are a willful, stubborn lot. :)

[annie]

Good topic, icey. I think that it's hard to know when to offer gentle advice. So many submissives write some version of the following in their introduction:

"Hi I'm <fill in super-cutesy-sexy name here> and I'm 19, blond, blue eyes, 36DD, up for anything except scat and blood, PM me if you wanna chat!"

Of course the use of punctuation, grammar and correct spelling is optional. I want so much to say to those young ladies "Girl, please. I hope you realize (though I doubt it) what you're inviting. If you truly believe you're a sub, slow down! Take your time, get to know people, see where and who you are as a submissive...and the dom for you will find you. If all you want is some kinky thrills, go for it, but at least be careful." So often what happens is they hang around for a few days or weeks and then disappear. What happens to them, I wonder?

I have offered unsolicited advice a couple of times - it's been accepted but not utilized. Oh well. Even submissives are a willful, stubborn lot. :)

Jeanne, so you LOVE those introductions too? :rolleyes:

I used to step out all the time to try and help/warn those that seemed real and yet were under an incorrect impression. Like Jeanne though, so few listened. And worse yet, I felt a lot of the time like the minority because the ones that had "been around" and supposedly knew, were as bad about encouraging the dangerous behavior. Especially the opposite sex of the poster.

If someone is new and has 30 responses to a post like that, with 3 being warnings or suggestions on being careful and 27 being "you go girl" out of human nature we all know who stands the better chance of being listened too!

It certainly makes me understand how BDSM ends up getting such a bad wrap so much of the time...

[gemmy]

icey, i couldn't agree more and spent the better part of last year trying to council new gurls just learning about BDSM - it never ceased to amaze me how many could care less for genuine concern of their safety and i did find, especially with the younger gurls, that all they are here for is thrill seeking on the net - to get the attention of as many men as possible

as a result of these 'attention whores', i gave up trying - you can pick them out in a flash just by their intro - they don't care what they are inviting, they don't intend going past the net anyway

the few genuine gurls i councilled came a long way in learning about themselves and those i spent hours talking to and helping overcome the need to submit to every asshole that ordered them to do things, whether they were comfortable or not

bottom line i think is, if they are genuine, they will seek guidance of more experienced subs and truly do wish to learn all they can before accepting the coveted 'velcro collar'

i used to watch these attention whores meet a guy in a chatroom and be collared within hours *rolls eyes* and then equally watch it last about as long - they don't care, it's all about the thrill of the attention and they are worse for giving this lifestyle a bad rep than are the self-titled 'I AM DOM - On your knees bitch'

but in the interest of those new to the scene and genuinely interested in learning, i think i'll post a couple things i wrote in what to beware of when wannabes approach ;)

[Sir_Russell]

"I am Dom here roar with brags to big to ignore"

lets face the fact that even our own library here has a huge amount of stories here that are pure fiction fantasy. So we add to this problem. Not much of a chat room Dom just got old and found that so many were just there to ROLE PLAY.

I post my histories in my picture thread because to the best of my recollection they are true and correct not fiction. Since the library story section is just for fiction I would not feel right posting them there.

Shame that more of us don't write about real world experiences to give the newbees a chance to hear how it actually is.

I also have thought of a web site where we could list those "Dom" that are really abusers.

[icey]

i'll look forward to reading them mastersgem

i think such a messageboard would be great if it could be kept pratical, but ive only ever seen one forum do ...that im sure you know which one im talking about but all that happens is everyone just bitches at everyone and as far as i can see that particular site only attracts the idiots anyway.






bottom line i think is, if they are genuine, they will seek guidance of more experienced subs and truly do wish to learn all they can before accepting the coveted 'velcro collar'

im not sure this is always the case,some are too embarrased or nervous to admit they've no experience and cant always pluck up the nerve to ask,they join forums such as here and many dont have the confidence to join in...i never used to it took me a long time, but luckily while i had my doubts and some surprises at times i never took the kneel bitch stuff seriously but at one point i was like well maybe its me maybe im the one who's wrong ....now nobody can shut me up lol


i used to watch these attention whores meet a guy in a chatroom and be collared within hours *rolls eyes* and then equally watch it last about as long - they don't care, it's all about the thrill of the attention and they are worse for giving this lifestyle a bad rep than are the self-titled 'I AM DOM - On your knees bitch'


yea they used to drive me nuts too lol and they dont do themselves no favours or anyone else.
some who may be a bit naive especially the young ones both male and female do fall for that kind of stuff though, and whenever i see that i really do have to bite my tongue because sometimes you can just sense that underneath it all thats not what they are about at all they're just misguided and uncertain.

[Isabella King]

It's so nice to see such caring people. Please don't stop offering advice, even if most of it goes unheaded, I'm sure there are girls who have benefitted from your knowledge and that makes it all worth while.

I consider myself a bit of a newbie - in that, up until a couple of weeks ago, I had never talked to another living soul (apart from my OH) about the way we live. It has been a wonderful revelation :)

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

I sometimes do feel sorry for those girls online, who are new to the lifestyle, hungry for attention and willing to do anything to get it. You can always spot an attention whore a mile away. You feel trapped in the middle wanting to protect them from the predator Doms on one hand, and on the other hand, you want to slap them upside the head to knock some sense into them.

I have been the victim of the velcro collar and I learned the hard way a long time ago what to do and what not to do when online with others. And it seems that these days I see more and more wannabes online, both subs and Dom/mes. Is is because I can spot them more easily now or are there truly more of them among us now?

I really hope that the newbies to this lifestyle spend some time reading the forums and then take their time in the chatroom getting to know everyone as people first and then as a potential Dom/me. Maybe that would stop some heartache.

[gemmy]

....and on the other hand, you want to slap them upside the head to knock some sense into them.

oh the temptation is strong lmao ;)

[annie]

I also have thought of a web site where we could list those "Dom" that are really abusers.

The website itself would be easy enough to manage... the question is how to determine the abuse and the abuser. Which standards are we going by and is the "dom" really an abuser if the sub clearly states in the introduction "i'll do anything"?

[GearJammer]

It's so nice to see such caring people. Please don't stop offering advice, even if most of it goes unheaded, I'm sure there are girls who have benefitted from your knowledge and that makes it all worth while.
I consider myself a bit of a newbie - in that, up until a couple of weeks ago, I had never talked to another living soul (apart from my OH) about the way we live. It has been a wonderful revelation :)

Well said, Isabella. May I suggest only one addition? That would be, "...even if most of it seems to go unheeded..."

Just as someone pointed out that legitimate subs may well not speak up for a variety of reasons, legitimate subs (and perhaps "attention whores" that are actually real subs underneath) may well take the advice to heart without ever alerting anyone that they have done so.

A good and honest word is always well said, whether thanks result or not.

Gear

[Isabella King]

Well said, Isabella. May I suggest only one addition? That would be, "...even if most of it seems to go unheeded..."


You pig! :mad: I make a point of never picking anyone up for spelling mistakes...but as this one was quite funny, I'll let you off ;)

[GearJammer]

The website itself would be easy enough to manage... the question is how to determine the abuse and the abuser. Which standards are we going by and is the "dom" really an abuser if the sub clearly states in the introduction "i'll do anything"?

Annie, I don't know if I'm "supposed" to be taken seriously or not, as I don't exist "in the lifestyle" as it is "defined" in the "box thinking" version. However, from my perspective, it is a Dom's responsibility to see to the safety of his sub, no matter what her state of mind when she comes to him. I believe that he is called to rise above those circumstances and protect her anyway, and I brook no violation of that intent. I speak, of course, only for myself, and thus for my expectation of others.

Gear

[gemmy]

Annie, I don't know if I'm "supposed" to be taken seriously or not, as I don't exist "in the lifestyle" as it is "defined" in the "box thinking" version. However, from my perspective, it is a Dom's responsibility to see to the safety of his sub, no matter what her state of mind when she comes to him. I believe that he is called to rise above those circumstances and protect her anyway, and I brook no violation of that intent. I speak, of course, only for myself, and thus for my expectation of others.

Gear

well said GearJammer, it's too bad the wannabe's could care less about the subs welfare and hence the danger

i do think i have to agree with annie - if these gurls are truly dumb enough to put themselves out there with the 'i'll do anything' attitude without first learning what that means, then they too have to be responsible for themselves which unfortunately too many young people today don't think they have to (sound old much? lol). they put themselves out there teasing with photos and text to gain as much attention as possible and then have the nerve to be 'hurt' when it doesn't go their way - they are no more submissive than i am Dom.

i have watched many of these types of gurls come and go in chat rooms 'pretending they don't know what they're doing' batting eyelashes, asking stupid questions that even my daughter would know the answer to - feigning stupidity to gain attention - what's worse is watching Every man (real and wannabe included) falling over themselves to 'help' *rolls eyes* and even more so if they are of the 18 to 20 year old variety lmao so bloody obvious

[Warbaby1943]

does anyone here ever want to jump in when subs new to it all are not sure how to 'act'.or are too nervous and feel silly admitting that its all new to them.

im asking because there have been many occasions ive come across people who after reading all the hype and crap on the net believe they have to act in a certain way.we've all been there,and sometimes commonsense just doesnt prevail.

calling everyone Master/Mistress, offering anything and everything both sexual and non,regardless of what they really want or feel simply because they believe they have to.
then generally end up doubting themselves because they find that they feel intimidated and couldnt possibly live up to that and bowing out without ever finding what it really is all about.

then there are those that end up being ignored by genuine people in the lifestyle and dismissed because they believe them to be wannabees and cheap thrill seekers.
and often end up pounced on by the i am Dom/me hear me roar clueless idiots or even worse find themselves,getting hurt, in abusive or dangerous situations or relationships.

i always wish i could say something and try to enlighten (probably the wrong term to use) them a little,but know i cant unless asked and many wont out of shyness nervousness embarrasment...a whole number of reasons ....because they'll probably think im being some pushy interfering know all and ignore anything i might try to say,and it isnt my place to do it.
im not saying im an expert or know whats best,because im not and i dont believe that anyone is as such and we're all different and need different things.

i know there's 'mentors' out there although im not sure how many are actually genuine and whether its a good idea,you cant really teach anyone in reality, and anyway most new-comers often dont know there is such a thing.

a long winded post i know,but havnt you ever been in this position and feel so frustrated at times when you have to bite you're tongue and stay quiet? or do you just jump in and try tactfully to point them in the right direction?Like your thread Icey. Most of the time anymore I do not get involved for many reasons. However, there are instances where I just can't remain silent no matter how much I may want to. I think your advise and wisdom is always spot on so you go girl and tell it like you see it.

[GearJammer]

You pig! :mad: I make a point of never picking anyone up for spelling mistakes...but as this one was quite funny, I'll let you off ;)

actually the point was not the spelling, but the change in words.

[annie]

Annie, I don't know if I'm "supposed" to be taken seriously or not, as I don't exist "in the lifestyle" as it is "defined" in the "box thinking" version. However, from my perspective, it is a Dom's responsibility to see to the safety of his sub, no matter what her state of mind when she comes to him. I believe that he is called to rise above those circumstances and protect her anyway, and I brook no violation of that intent. I speak, of course, only for myself, and thus for my expectation of others.

Gear

I agree it is as much the Dom's responsibility as it is the subs. That being said though the point I was getting at is...

1) There are as many "new" Doms out there who experience the same issues as the new subs and may want to learn but don't know how to go about it. After all... they are potentially finding the same type of information that is as misleading as the subs are.

2) Who is to judge what is abuse? Just because Dom A doesn't do it like Dom B is that really abuse? Would Dom's A sub think it was or would Dom's B? The point being that, in this arena defining "abuse" is a hard thing. There are as many Doms as there are fetishes and what may be "abuse" by one isn't by another and honestly even going with the Safe, Sane, Consensual standard leaves it open to interpretation. So, who would set the rules and determine what the rules were? A murky area at best. Basically like a thread Tom started not to long ago about being in charge at parties and trying to keep everyone safe... where is that line in a lifestyle that pushes each persons limits in completely different fashions and who has the right/responsibility to determine the line and limits?


well said GearJammer, it's too bad the wannabe's could care less about the subs welfare and hence the danger

Does the wannabe not care because they are just asses or do they not care because they don't know any better? Either way a dangerous situation since we all know how good men (Dom's in this instance) are at asking for directions! :)


i do think i have to agree with annie - if these gurls are truly dumb enough to put themselves out there with the 'i'll do anything' attitude without first learning what that means, then they too have to be responsible for themselves which unfortunately too many young people today don't think they have to (sound old much? lol). they put themselves out there teasing with photos and text to gain as much attention as possible and then have the nerve to be 'hurt' when it doesn't go their way - they are no more submissive than i am Dom.

It isn't old fashioned it is the way things should be done... we each have to take responsibility for our own actions... even when we fuck up! The MODs in chat get a hard time at times for doing this exact thing for taking responsibility for the person when they are acting in a stupid/dangerous fashion. I know when I was a MOD I used to. BUT, there has been more then one instance where someone comes in, posts something about "I'm new take a look at these photos" or "i'm looking for a Master text me at this number" or even "Who wants to use me?" *rme*


i have watched many of these types of gurls come and go in chat rooms 'pretending they don't know what they're doing' batting eyelashes, asking stupid questions that even my daughter would know the answer to - feigning stupidity to gain attention - what's worse is watching Every man (real and wannabe included) falling over themselves to 'help' *rolls eyes* and even more so if they are of the 18 to 20 year old variety lmao so bloody obvious

That is what kills me... the Dom's that I thought I respected falling for that stupidity ploy. *rme* I will admit that there are some who's lights aren't all on... hell I burn a bulb out often enough myself. But still... for some it is an obvious act... *rme*

[Tojo]

Good thread icey, I salute you :idea:

Yeah, anyone who knows me is well aware that I keep an eye out for new people- subs in particular.

I enjoy that role very much (check out my siggy) & certainly do my share of mentoring.

To me, that's the most important role for forums such as this- to provide a balanced view of the lifestyle & answer questions.

[thrall]

does anyone here ever want to jump in when subs new to it all are not sure how to 'act'.or are too nervous and feel silly admitting that its all new to them.

im asking because there have been many occasions ive come across people who after reading all the hype and crap on the net believe they have to act in a certain way.we've all been there,and sometimes commonsense just doesnt prevail.

calling everyone Master/Mistress, offering anything and everything both sexual and non,regardless of what they really want or feel simply because they believe they have to.
then generally end up doubting themselves because they find that they feel intimidated and couldnt possibly live up to that and bowing out without ever finding what it really is all about.

then there are those that end up being ignored by genuine people in the lifestyle and dismissed because they believe them to be wannabees and cheap thrill seekers.
and often end up pounced on by the i am Dom/me hear me roar clueless idiots or even worse find themselves,getting hurt, in abusive or dangerous situations or relationships.

i always wish i could say something and try to enlighten (probably the wrong term to use) them a little,but know i cant unless asked and many wont out of shyness nervousness embarrasment...a whole number of reasons ....because they'll probably think im being some pushy interfering know all and ignore anything i might try to say,and it isnt my place to do it.
im not saying im an expert or know whats best,because im not and i dont believe that anyone is as such and we're all different and need different things.

i know there's 'mentors' out there although im not sure how many are actually genuine and whether its a good idea,you cant really teach anyone in reality, and anyway most new-comers often dont know there is such a thing.

a long winded post i know,but havnt you ever been in this position and feel so frustrated at times when you have to bite you're tongue and stay quiet? or do you just jump in and try tactfully to point them in the right direction?


Sometimes it’s just so hard to watch and not say anything. Giving gentle unsolicited advice is a tricky thing, some listen and some don’t. There is always the chance that reception of what you are saying will be taken the wrong way. Some I just want to shake. Some I just want to flat smack around. Some I want to help.

Posers/predators/players come in many forms, both Dom and sub. For the most part it’s easy to spot those who are just claiming to be in the lifestyle for cheap thrills, and those who are truly new and wanting to learn.

Unfortunately, being on the receiving end of being played can jade you in extending the hand of friendship and help. It can make you wary of those that approach you. But that still does not stop me from …..trying.

For me it is gratifying to help others. Honestly answering questions honestly asked are always a pleasure. Sharing experiences, thoughts, ideas and feelings in the hopes that someone else may benefit…….is satisfying.

Helping others sometimes can be a double edged sword. But what is worst that can happen?.....Your feelings may be hurt or what you have to say is not listened to. On the other side of that however is the knowledge that you may have helped someone over come fear, prevented them from some folly…….or simply helped them find them selves.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone starts somewhere………I am always willing to help or point someone in the right direction. I am willing to do what I can do……..after all, in the end, it is service.

[Amethyst]

As a new sub, i find that despite being aware that saying certain things will attract the wrong people, i'm still guilty of it. im getting better as i get to know more about my submisiveness and can express myself more efficiently but i guess i needed some of those mistakes to help me work out traits of a genuine Dom for myself. Most of the time i just end up sounding a little bit dense because i'm still exploring.

[silver9]

I'm only a new sub too, but I hope I'd never do what those girls do

A lot seem to be out for attention and wanting everyone to believe they really do have DD's and a tiny waist, but some will actually be hurt and taken advantage of because they think they're advertisements are what subs are

I think there's a lot of Dom's out there too who're keen to take advantage of anyone, and I know I've talked to some who immediately expect me to call them 'Master' or 'Sir' just because I'm a sub, and they're just plain horrible to talk to; they treat you like a piece of meat.

Both of these kinds of people give BDSM a bad name, and it's worse when they won't listen... but there are still some genuinely nice people out there :)

[jeanne]

I think there's a lot of Dom's out there too who're keen to take advantage of anyone, and I know I've talked to some who immediately expect me to call them 'Master' or 'Sir' just because I'm a sub, and they're just plain horrible to talk to; they treat you like a piece of meat.

I must make a confession here...I've never, not once, had a Dom tell me immediately to call him Sir or Master or whatever. I think part of the reason is that I don't hang out in the chatroom and part of the reason is that I make no secret of my age (43) and the ones who want that right away are usually insecure ninnies who seek out "young meat" to feel powerful. It's quite pathetic, really.



Both of these kinds of people give BDSM a bad name, and it's worse when they won't listen... but there are still some genuinely nice people out there :)

Yes, there are. :)

[gemmy]

I must make a confession here...I've never, not once, had a Dom tell me immediately to call him Sir or Master or whatever. I think part of the reason is that I don't hang out in the chatroom and part of the reason is that I make no secret of my age (43) and the ones who want that right away are usually insecure ninnies who seek out "young meat" to feel powerful. It's quite pathetic, really.

i've had this request from the insecure idiots many times and i don't think it has anything to do with the chatroom - more often than not it's via site mail (not so much on here thankfully) and i'm 41 so i don't think it is age specific although i do believe the younger they are the easier a target they become.

upon telling them i will not call anyone Sir or Master except One of my choosing, you'll find them get very angry because you know, how Dare a mere, stupid, mindless sub challenge the All powerful, self-titled Master lmao - makes me laugh everytime at their complete stupidity

[Whippett]

does anyone here ever want to jump in when subs new to it all are not sure how to 'act'.or are too nervous and feel silly admitting that its all new to them.

im asking because there have been many occasions ive come across people who after reading all the hype and crap on the net believe they have to act in a certain way.we've all been there,and sometimes commonsense just doesnt prevail.

calling everyone Master/Mistress, offering anything and everything both sexual and non,regardless of what they really want or feel simply because they believe they have to.
then generally end up doubting themselves because they find that they feel intimidated and couldnt possibly live up to that and bowing out without ever finding what it really is all about.

then there are those that end up being ignored by genuine people in the lifestyle and dismissed because they believe them to be wannabees and cheap thrill seekers.
and often end up pounced on by the i am Dom/me hear me roar clueless idiots or even worse find themselves,getting hurt, in abusive or dangerous situations or relationships.

i always wish i could say something and try to enlighten (probably the wrong term to use) them a little,but know i cant unless asked and many wont out of shyness nervousness embarrasment...a whole number of reasons ....because they'll probably think im being some pushy interfering know all and ignore anything i might try to say,and it isnt my place to do it.
im not saying im an expert or know whats best,because im not and i dont believe that anyone is as such and we're all different and need different things.

i know there's 'mentors' out there although im not sure how many are actually genuine and whether its a good idea,you cant really teach anyone in reality, and anyway most new-comers often dont know there is such a thing.

a long winded post i know,but havnt you ever been in this position and feel so frustrated at times when you have to bite you're tongue and stay quiet? or do you just jump in and try tactfully to point them in the right direction?

Just a short note - I'll contact you separately icey - but yes - I have taken a number of newbies under my wing to help them over that imnitial rush to find themselves - it's a dangerous time - and new subs in particular can be badly hurt if they are too eager.

I would be more than willing to act as a Mentor to new subs in that regard.

Hugs,

W

[Whippett]

Ok - a longer comment.

I have a bit of a thing about newbies in the lifestyle. I've seen a couple of perfectly good and wonderful submissives be ruined by running up against the wrong sort of "dominant". I'm talking the predators here - who go after newbies because usually newbies are eacger to learn and to please - and some want to experience everything "Right now, please!"

I've picked up the poieces once - it was a friend who had been quite private and self contained - she hadn't given off any indication that she was interested - and at the time I was in the closet myself. Pam never did re-enter the lifestyle - she was a little too gunshy after her run-in - in this instance with a "domme" - an 18 year-old who claimed all sorts of experience (as if, at 18), but she was incredibly cute and Pam was a lesbian. The 18-yo did a real number on Pam - convinced her that to be a good sub she had to do as she was told - regardless of whether she could or not.

From that point on - I've had a bit of a soft-spot for newbies. I do NOT want to take one on and train one at this time. I have my hands full with my own girls. But I am more than willing to discuss the finer points of Master/sub relationships from the Dominant side of the equation with any newbie who is willing to listen and to be guided.

I've done it for years. I like to see new people enter the lifestyle - but I like to see them do so safely, and under controlled settings, until they have found their feet and have a much clearer idea of who and what they truly are. So yes, icey - if you want to steer people at me - I have the time and inclination to try and keep them from getting into real trouble or being destroyed. That's an open invitation, by the way - don't expect me to play with you - and definitely don't expect me to be patient if you go against my advice in ways that lead to issues for you.

Hugs,

W

[Whippett]

"I am Dom here roar with brags to big to ignore"

lets face the fact that even our own library here has a huge amount of stories here that are pure fiction fantasy. So we add to this problem. Not much of a chat room Dom just got old and found that so many were just there to ROLE PLAY.

I post my histories in my picture thread because to the best of my recollection they are true and correct not fiction. Since the library story section is just for fiction I would not feel right posting them there.

Shame that more of us don't write about real world experiences to give the newbees a chance to hear how it actually is.

I also have thought of a web site where we could list those "Dom" that are really abusers.

I like that idea Russell - a resource for those new to the discipline - the real issue will be identifying the people who are the abusive predators without running foul of the law - and in a manner that makes who they are obvious - it's all to easy to change your on-line name and become "someone new".

I'd like to see some sort of international registry - we have people from all over the world on here - a site that is private to the vetted members but can be used to identify and list abusers would be most useful indeed - I'm not sure how the vetting can be done - but I'm sure that, collectively, we can put something in place that will work - even if only in an ad hoc fashion.

Listing it as a resource - and listing contact IDs who can be contacted for further information in the cities where there are members might be a good start. I'm flying by the seat of my pants here - but I think there are ways to bring it about if anyone wants to talk about it. PM me if you want to talk - perhaps we can put together a private chat room to meet and talk it over?

Cheers,

Whip

[Tojo]

Shame that more of us don't write about real world experiences to give the newbees a chance to hear how it actually is.

I also have thought of a web site where we could list those "Dom" that are really abusers.

Yes it is a shame more of us don't write about our experiences, but there's generally good reasons for that- I tend to think it's private myself.

It would be a waste of time listing the predators who set themselves up as Doms. For one thing they often use different names. Nor is it so easy to judge who's OK & who isn't- just because someone treats a sub like dirt once, doesn't mean they won't see the error of their ways.

They may also meet someone who won't fall for their lines & perhaps show them that actually becoming a Dom wouldn't be a bad thing.
:confused:

[Sir_Russell]

Tojo one of the problems of the internet is that it is very hard to patrol. When it was just groups of us kinky folks getting together in real life we could patrol the behavior of the abusers and most of us did. Today it is very different.

As far as making your experiences public the only person that needs to be identified is the writer and then only because they have a screen name.

I do not use real names for any of my histories other then my name since it is my screen name. Again I think it is a very good and easy way to show others the path that you have taken and let them decide if it might be a map for them.

[DowntownAmber]

I've been lurking and posting here on the forums for several months now, since November of '07 in fact. It's been a GREAT resource as J and I are both quite new to living the actual Lifestyle. Fantasies are one thing, role play another, but having an actual living, breathing relationship? Whole 'nother ballgame. ;) We've been able to utilize a lot of the members here for one on one advice or questions, as well as using the site overall to explore and to look in on other people's experiences and commentary.

In the time here I've noticed one pretty common thread in regards to doling out advice of any kind, especially to those new and unsure of themselves: the advice given that starts out with "you need to do" this, or "you should do" that tends to be met with (at the best) disinterest or defensiveness and (at the worst) flat out hostility and rejection. No one, even subbies *gasp!*, likes to be told how to live their lives if the "advice" is presented to them in a way that comes across as elitest and condescending. It makes no difference if the giver of said advice meant it to be that way or not.

I see the most successful threads and advice given when people talk about thier own experiences, and let folks draw conclusions that way, and leave themselves open to be asked questions and approached by the newbie crowd. Seems less intimiating and thus more effective that way. Perhaps a few threads dedicated to "firsts" in all of our BDSM lives would be a good resource? Our first o/l relationship, our first r/l relationship, out first big failure and first big success?

[Wind_Walker25]

This is a very Good thread thanks to icey!!! needs to stay near the top for all new subs to Find!
and new Doms/Masters to the net!!

[Tojo]

In the time here I've noticed one pretty common thread in regards to doling out advice of any kind, especially to those new and unsure of themselves: the advice given that starts out with "you need to do" this, or "you should do" that tends to be met with (at the best) disinterest or defensiveness and (at the worst) flat out hostility and rejection. No one, even subbies *gasp!*, likes to be told how to live their lives if the "advice" is presented to them in a way that comes across as elitest and condescending. It makes no difference if the giver of said advice meant it to be that way or not.

I see the most successful threads and advice given when people talk about thier own experiences, and let folks draw conclusions that way, and leave themselves open to be asked questions and approached by the newbie crowd. Seems less intimiating and thus more effective that way. Perhaps a few threads dedicated to "firsts" in all of our BDSM lives would be a good resource? Our first o/l relationship, our first r/l relationship, out first big failure and first big success?

Nicely put Amber- you can't tell people what to do. For a start you never know the whole story, & you don't know how they feel.

When people are insecure & confused, they need the space to make their own decisions.

[cadence]

Nicely put Amber- you can't tell people what to do. For a start you never know the whole story, & you don't know how they feel.

When people are insecure & confused, they need the space to make their own decisions.


I'll second that, and to be honest, the first year of my existence here has taught me to learn many things about myself, and what I needed in regards to what I wanted through trial and error. Most of my experiences have not been good ones to say the least.
I would be the first to offer my input as to what can go wrong in general. Not saying that everything I have gone through was horrible, but my inexperience and confused state made me an easier target for being the used prey that other dominants seek to abuse.

[gemmy]

I'll second that, and to be honest, the first year of my existence here has taught me to learn many things about myself, and what I needed in regards to what I wanted through trial and error. Most of my experiences have not been good ones to say the least.
I would be the first to offer my input as to what can go wrong in general. Not saying that everything I have gone through was horrible, but my inexperience and confused state made me an easier target for being the used prey that other dominants seek to abuse.

I can completely relate to that cadence and also have found that learning about myself and my wants and views has made me a stronger person and now one a little less likely to be abused

If there is ever any advice I give new subs, it's that - to look at your own self, wants and thoughts first. They find it very hard as a lot of subs do since we don't tend to think in terms of ourselves and isn't it about pleasing Them, not ourselves? lol - So, not only is it almost unthinkable to do but a very hard task as well requiring patience, another thing many subs are not well known for lol

It goes a long way in finding a far better match though but like our children, sometimes you just cannot teach from your own mistakes - they need to do some of the learning (and failing) on their own

[underwhere]

Part of the process of choosing to enter this lifestyle, no matter whether cursorily or with a far more involved relationship, is in figuring out what you are looking for. It seems that the problem that many newbies have is not being fully in touch with themselves and their needs and desires, whether they are Dom/me, sub, or switch. As a result, if one does not know or consider what one is at all interested in, and perhaps more importantly specifically what one is NOT interested in, the plethora of ideas and situations available can be overwhelming at best, and dangerous at worst if trust is too easily placed in to the hands of somebody who may not be worthy of that trust.

Personally, and I'm guessing this is not true for everybody, I'd spent a great deal of time prepping myself for wanting to get involved, and ultimately choosing to do so, even with my very specific personal concerns. (Those are a bit more complicated than I wish to delve into in this thread, but I'm more than willing to share privately if anybody wishes to know about those.) Even then, what I started out with was only a very faint inkling of understanding of myself with regard to my needs and desires in this area of my life. That has grown greatly as I've engaged in various elements of online exploration. Writing has always been an exceptionally good means of communication for me, in chatrooms, forums, and in blogs. I've chosen to utilize that strength of mine in this exploration, and so far, I seem to have been fairly well rewarded, both in clarifying my own needs and desires to myself, and in communicating those to the people I have interacted with online. (As of right now, I have no r/l experience except for some telephone conversations, and those were of the "getting to know you" type.)

I believe that a lot of this gives me a leg up on those who were wishing to "rush into things" a bit quickly. I never intended to rush into any of this. For me personally, safety is a paramount concern of mine. Nonetheless, I'm still learning. I've spent a lot of time tonight reading in the forum here about some specific strategies one can employ in an effort to attempt to ensure a safe meeting with people you've never met before. Some of those strategies seem both clever and extremely useful in attempting to ensure a safe situation. Many of the strategies I had already considered and planned on employing, but some I had not considered at all, and of those, I plan to employ most, if not all, of them.

It can also be particularly difficult to consider potential "bad situations" if you've never really encountered those in your life before. Because of my specific circumstances, socially, I'm constantly in a state of mental and physical alertness, even outside of this particular realm of s&m/BDSM. One wrong move by me could put me in a REALLY bad situation that, even if I were to get out of it, I probably would not be able to do anything about it after the fact, so I do have to be extremely careful. Knowing this, I have made my explorations go at a pace that has been very slow because I did not want to find myself badly burned, and quite likely physically and emotionally wrecked in the process. This is what I HAVE to do for me. For everybody else, while it is of course optional, it would probably come highly recommended because the stakes are nearly as high if a bad relationship or situation develops.

I think the best we can do for newbies is to let them know that they need to take care of themselves and ensure their own personal safety and well-being. Ultimately, we can only be responsible for ourselves, after all. I've seen lots of efforts at that in the welcoming threads if somebody thinks perhaps a person has introduced themselves with a little more than what might be wise. Being able to point such things out is really important. Whether or not newbies heed such advice, if it is given, is really up to them. Any one of us, I'm sure, could be a reasonable guide, but if somebody is determined to not be guided, there really isn't much any of us can do here to prevent potential bad situations from occurring.

[gemmy]

...I think the best we can do for newbies is to let them know that they need to take care of themselves and ensure their own personal safety and well-being. Ultimately, we can only be responsible for ourselves, after all. I've seen lots of efforts at that in the welcoming threads if somebody thinks perhaps a person has introduced themselves with a little more than what might be wise. Being able to point such things out is really important. Whether or not newbies heed such advice, if it is given, is really up to them. Any one of us, I'm sure, could be a reasonable guide, but if somebody is determined to not be guided, there really isn't much any of us can do here to prevent potential bad situations from occurring.

Sadly, I believe this is the bottom line and it is no different than trying to teach your teenager from the benefit of your own mistakes *winks* we all know they know far more than we do - the old adage...."our kids think it's incredibly amazing how stupid we (parents) are when they are 16 years old, but are even more amazed at how much we've learned by the time they are 20" ;)

[icey]

well one of the reasons i started this thread was because,there is a particular girl i was thinking of and i am a bit worried about her.

some of this post is taken from an email i sent to a friend about her (who i hope doesnt mind me posting it here xx) who very kindly offered to help.

she's only quite young (20) she seems to know what she wants she's a really nice girl im not silly and am a fairly good judge of character and im sure she's not a wannabee but she hasnt a clue!

she got talking to a sub (so called) before i 'met' her and has heard so much crap from her its unbelievable,the girl has really got into her head.
she's had her join slave farm ...wow a real good start ...and she seems to believe that everything posted there is straight from the bdsm bible!
this other sub is very pushy and full of hot air.i could tell you all about her and the influence she has but it would take forever lol
i got talking with her and needless to say we didnt get on too well im not usually pushy and did my best to be tactful but apparently she's got 20+ yrs of experience she knows whats what and im just some silly girl who hasnt a clue .....so piss offf wannabee etc lol that doesnt bother me and i dont think she's worth the hassle,

but so far she's talked her into sending god knows how many pics and performing on webcam, but strangely enough the other girl and her Dom dont have pics or a cam, now they're talking of meeting up as she's recruiting for her 'Master' but not to worry because they're not going to push her into anything ,no strings attached,no expectations etc use

so far they havnt met up but i have a feeling its not far off,
recently i decided to be more blunt with her,i wasnt rude or nasty but she's taken the hump and now wont speak to me so there's nothing i can do,i know its not my buisness and maybe im being overly cautious but that doesnt stop me from worrying about her and she'll have to learn from her own experience i just hope it isnt a bad one.
despite everything she's a very sweet girl and i dont want her to get hurt,but i think she will at the very least i think she will become disallusioned and will spoil what could have been a lovely new way of life for her.

i just wanted to say thankyou to all of you who posted,i took on board all that was said here but as was pointed out in a few posts some people dont want to listen whether its in their own interests or not.
i guess much as i dont want to i have to bow out :( which i feel im letting her down for but what else can i do?

aaagh the silly girl! for the first time ever i want to be the one doing the flogging!

sorry,vent over lol

[fetishdj]

I agree that this is a problem but I think the solution does have to be education. Maybe a message on the boards as soon as you join saying 'this is what we do, this is what we are about, if you don't like that leave' which may deter some of the wannabes and possibly attract more of those who are looking for serious committment.

I'd be wary about any name and shame policy. Its a good idea in theory but in practise it needs to be tightly controlled and seen to be a fair system otherwise you open up accusations of witch-hunts. The purpose should surely be to make sure that those who come into the lifestyle with mistaken impressions acquire the correct ones before they cause trouble rather than alienate them from the group altogether. Of course, if they persist in bad behaviour then banning them from the group is sometimes the only option.

I used to frequent a particular chat room (the UK room of alt.com). Because it was linked to AFF you got a lot of people (men especially) who wandered in there because you got extra points for joining another AFF site and they all thought 'Yeah, BDSM, lots of kinky bitches who will do me cos I order them to'. They' d swagger into the UK chatroom, demand that any women meet them for a shag right now and then be flamed to a crisp by all the Dommes in the room who were just saving up all that frustration to use on someone :) Then they'd either get put on mass ignore or (if they seemed genuinely interested and responded to the criticism well) one of the posters would invite them to private chat and tell them in words of less than one syllable that that was not how things are done and that the best way to achieve anything is to be polite, talk to people about things other than sex and generally be yourself. Some were never seen again, others hung around and got into it. Apart from these (brief) interruptions that was one of the best moderated chatrooms I had ever been in :) We mostly talked about shopping, housework and how I needed to be gagged to keep me from saying stupid things... :)

[gemmy]

i guess much as i dont want to i have to bow out :( which i feel im letting her down for but what else can i do?

aaagh the silly girl! for the first time ever i want to be the one doing the flogging!

sorry,vent over lol

*hugs* icey, you're such a sweetie and I've been in your position and yes, sadly all you can do is voice your own thoughts and experiences and hopefully get her to see the light. There are plenty of good sites out there to learn from but if you are set on one way, no amount of coaxing is going to change it and especially if she's being offered thrills and excitement where we are offering safety and patience (sounds boring and not quick enough to the eager newb unfortunately)

I, like you, hope she takes at least a little time to heed your words and hopefully you've at least planted a small seed of doubt that may yet grow ;)

[GearJammer]

*hugs* icey, you're such a sweetie and I've been in your position and yes, sadly all you can do is voice your own thoughts and experiences and hopefully get her to see the light. There are plenty of good sites out there to learn from but if you are set on one way, no amount of coaxing is going to change it and especially if she's being offered thrills and excitement where we are offering safety and patience (sounds boring and not quick enough to the eager newb unfortunately)

I, like you, hope she takes at least a little time to heed your words and hopefully you've at least planted a small seed of doubt that may yet grow ;)

I can add only this to what mgem said so well, Icey. You'll be there, and when she realizes that she's been taken for a ride (due most likely to your seed of doubt), you'll likely be the one she comes to in order to learn what's going on.

And those of us who are learning what Icey is about know that you'll be there for her without saying "I told you so" (well, without saying it too much... chuckle).