You ever scare yourself?

[Hime]

Just wondering if anyone here has ever had the experience of being scared or weirded out by their own fantasies. Lately I've been trying to write a story, and I keep thinking "I can't believe I'm actually writing this. What's wrong with me?" I know that it's just a story and not real life, and that I can trust myself not to do anything scary to a real person, but I feel like there have to be some pretty dark things going on in my subconscious for me to even think about some of the things that turn me on.

Anyone else been there? Did you eventually get over the paranoia and just enjoy your twisted imagination, or did you scale back your writing/daydreaming to something you felt more comfortable with?

[neitsyst2]

Part of the stigma attached to the lifestyle is that it is "abnormal" for us to enjoy the BDSM activites that we do enjoy. But that is what it is, a stigma. Because many of us learn at a young age that s/m for example is outside the socially accepted norm, we feel guilt or shame when truly accepting the fantasy we have associated with that lifestyle.

Here is my take. I know that it will take time for me to embrace the whole of the things that I enjoy in the realm of BDSM...but I know that there is no reason for me NOT to accept them beyond the limitations that I have set for myself. Limitations that I have imposed from a learned lifetime of "normalcy."

The freedom about the lifestyle is that I can truly enjoy what I enjoy about sex, pleasure, pain, submission, etc. If I step back from my fantasy and give in to the social norm, I will be missing out on what makes me happy. BDSM IS my norm, and the lifestyle is just that...a lifestyle.

I hope that you will share your stories with us the way you envision them. You would be surprised at just how many people out there share your kink.

Best wishes,
nei

[Hime]

Part of the stigma attached to the lifestyle is that it is "abnormal" for us to enjoy the BDSM activites that we do enjoy. But that is what it is, a stigma. Because many of us learn at a young age that s/m for example is outside the socially accepted norm, we feel guilt or shame when truly accepting the fantasy we have associated with that lifestyle.

Here is my take. I know that it will take time for me to embrace the whole of the things that I enjoy in the realm of BDSM...but I know that there is no reason for me NOT to accept them beyond the limitations that I have set for myself. Limitations that I have imposed from a learned lifetime of "normalcy."

The freedom about the lifestyle is that I can truly enjoy what I enjoy about sex, pleasure, pain, submission, etc. If I step back from my fantasy and give in to the social norm, I will be missing out on what makes me happy. BDSM IS my norm, and the lifestyle is just that...a lifestyle.

I hope that you will share your stories with us the way you envision them. You would be surprised at just how many people out there share your kink.

Best wishes,
nei

I appreciate your input. :)

I'm not really talking about things that I've done or would like to do in a scene, though. I don't really worry about that, because it's something that I'm doing with someone else who enjoys it and gets personal satisfaction from it. I wouldn't ever want to do a scene with someone who was actually not sure if they were willing to participate, or pushing their limits past what they were really okay with.

In fiction and fantasy, though, I don't always stop at the same places. The particular story I'm working on is kind of a "be careful what you wish for" situation exploring where a character's limits are in relation to what she has said she wanted. I don't think I can actually post the story here, because it's fan fiction using licensed characters, but the idea is that in the original work one of the characters has been sort of obsessed with another character because he strikes her as dangerous, and in the fan fic he decides to show her how dangerous he can really be. I was attracted to writing about that character because I can relate to her, being a bit of a thrill-seeker myself and always kind of wishing that I could just get it out of my system.

However, I'm having a really hard time with the issue of consent in the story. In the source material, the characters have a sexual relationship and it's pretty obvious that she wants him to hurt her. On the other hand, she never actually says out loud that she wants that, she just hints at it. I feel like I understand the character well enough to say that she wouldn't feel violated by the events in my story, but I don't know if I feel comfortable making that judgment for a woman other than myself -- even a woman who doesn't exist outside of a TV series. We live in a culture that constantly bends over backward to justify violence against women, or to blame the victims rather than the offenders, and I don't want to be a part of that.

I know I'm really over-thinking this and it's just a very minor fantasy that only a few people would ever read, but I feel like the issues I'm having with my own imagination are something that I'm going to have to deal with at some point or another and I might as well get it over with now. :) For those who haven't followed my personal soap opera in My BDSM Life, I think part of the issue is that I only recently discovered my own dominant side, and I'm still getting used to the idea that I can enjoy inflicting pain. It's kind of a tough adjustment, honestly.

[paulsub158]

I have often found my own imagination skiping its merry way down some very dark paths when left to wander free. I think "nei" hit the nail on the head about rejecting the accepted norm and surrendering to what we truly desire.

[neitsyst2]

Blushes and admits that fantasy is different than scene, but that my bondaries for fantasy were not imposed in a different manner. While I might not push my limits in a scene to the same place that they are in my fantasies...I still have to work to accept the lifestyle as part of those fantasies, wherever that may take me.

I do understand your dilema in making choices for your character. It does seem difficult to make decisions in that way...could that perhaps be a part of our submissive or dominant traits? We depend so much on trust and permission going both ways that it may be inherent for you to feel as if your charcter feels the same.

It's just my two cents...well, four in this case *w

[Hime]

Blushes and admits that fantasy is different than scene, but that my bondaries for fantasy were not imposed in a different manner. While I might not push my limits in a scene to the same place that they are in my fantasies...I still have to work to accept the lifestyle as part of those fantasies, wherever that may take me.

I do understand your dilema in making choices for your character. It does seem difficult to make decisions in that way...could that perhaps be a part of our submissive or dominant traits? We depend so much on trust and permission going both ways that it may be inherent for you to feel as if your charcter feels the same.

It's just my two cents...well, four in this case *w

I think that's a good point. :) If I were role-playing the scene with my submissive partner instead of just writing it from the POV of the dominant character, I would have negotiated it with her beforehand and made sure that nothing was going to happen that she wasn't willing to deal with. But you can't really do that with a character in a story. It isn't like I can call the writers from the show and ask them if they think the character would be okay with it. :D

[Euryleia]

I belonged to a writer's group and we gave ourselves an assignment to write on a topic that we personally are opposed to and work on making it believable to the reader. I found the exercising rather freeing.

See, fantasy is just that--out of the real world and in the safety of our imaginations. Since that time, I've written things in my stories where there is no such things as safe sex, no consent and even the issue of sanity is pretty iffy. Use your fiction as a place to play with your dominant side and pain and every other possible thing that makes you go squik. Just because you dream it, doesn't mean that it is going to come true or even that you want to experience it.

If you are concerned how it will taken by others, put a disclaimer on the work. Here's the one I use on those sorts of tales:
The following is a work of fiction. This story is not real and should not be used as anything but fuel for fantasies. The author in no way, form, or fashion condones the (whatever the story is about). Consent is an essential element for any sex act and, while this story depicts otherwise, it is just a story. If you are too young or too stupid to understand the difference between fantasy and reality, you certainly shouldn't be reading this tale.

Good luck in finding your voice.

[Hime]

I belonged to a writer's group and we gave ourselves an assignment to write on a topic that we personally are opposed to and work on making it believable to the reader. I found the exercising rather freeing.

That sounds like a really interesting assignment.

Reminds me of the time my poetry professor had us write a poem in the voice of an established character -- either a real famous person or a well-known fictional character. I challenged myself to write it in the voice of President Bush. :D

[Isabella King]

Aren't you applying your own guilt restrictions to this purely fictional character, when writing - particularly in this genre - means you can be free to explore even the darkest corners of your imagination without fear of judgement?

I used to feel the same way, and think - I can't write that. People will think I want to do it! You get over that in time.

Also, I shouldn't imagine that a thriller writer, who regularly writes about violence and murder, has his morals or his sanity questioned. It’s only imagination – you can’t be hanged for it…even if some of the wilder stuff might just turn you on ;)

I say, let your character go where ever she wants to go :)

[tydnchaynz{NSXX}]

To me, writing is the ultimate for of expression. For goodness sake, look at Stephen King! From his writings, can you imagine the dark, twisted corridors his mind has?? But if he tried to supress them, would he be where he is now?

Writing to me is the one place where you can let your imagination run wild without judgement. And fantasy is just that, fantasy. There is nothing saying that you have to act on your fantasies, but wouldn't it be great if your stories were inspiring to someone else who may come back and say "Hey! Thanks for the great idea!!"

[funtime37]

at the risk of sounding stupid, think for a minute about all the dreams that you have had that you can remember. how weird were they? and just think about the amount of dreams you must have had that you can't remember. well writing is the same thing for a lot of people they just dream when they are awake. stories are just that stories and fantasy is just a story that hasn't been written down. not only that i personally don't have a problem with fantasies be cause they can be any thing you want even if the never will come true. Because if they did then it wouldn't be a fantasy and more and you would need to come up with a new one.

[Phantome]

Hime, what is your source material that your fanfic is based on? I'm sure you can post a book or movie title here without retribution- my interest from reading your inner debate is piqued. As far as being bothered by your fantasies, I think that you should go easy on yourself. Particularly when just writing a story (not to diminish its significance or anything). I myself have a couple of very violent fantasies that I would be greatly disturbed by should they ever actually happen in R/L, to me or anyone else. The point of it all is for them remain in fantasyland, where it's safe to explore what-ifs and inklings of desires without any consequences. Writing is the perfect way to "live" out these fantasies, so I think you should go for it in your writing! :) Good luck,
-Phan, her wheels turning

[Tojo]

You present an interesting challenge Hime.

I always believe 'a sub has no shame' & work towards that end.

Fantasies are fantasies, nothing more- if they tend to be acceptable & predictable, surely we can do better?? :eek:

[Hime]

Hime, what is your source material that your fanfic is based on? I'm sure you can post a book or movie title here without retribution- my interest from reading your inner debate is piqued. As far as being bothered by your fantasies, I think that you should go easy on yourself. Particularly when just writing a story (not to diminish its significance or anything). I myself have a couple of very violent fantasies that I would be greatly disturbed by should they ever actually happen in R/L, to me or anyone else. The point of it all is for them remain in fantasyland, where it's safe to explore what-ifs and inklings of desires without any consequences. Writing is the perfect way to "live" out these fantasies, so I think you should go for it in your writing! :) Good luck,
-Phan, her wheels turning

I didn't mention it mostly because I was curious to see if anyone would guess. :) The story is based on the TV series Dexter.

Thanks everyone for your input. :) I have been talking to my husband/Master, who has been writing erotic fiction for a long time, about this conversation and what you've said, and I think it's helped me come to a better understandings of the conflicts within my own life, and in my own head, right now.

[gagged_Louise]

I think sexual fantasies should sometimes aim to be dangerous, vertiginous and uncomfortable - that's in their nature, one side of them. I don't often feel that while writing, but sometimes after it's been published here, or in reading it for myself, feeling that now it's spelled out and open to see for others, it may or may not be something I would want to carry through in real life, but the wish, the need or thrill is there. Tessa once said as we were discussing this that a core point of submission was the wish to be cherished in your lowest, most primitive form, one could also read that as your most rough and "sinful" form (and thereby being forgiven and accepted deep in your most naked being). With her intuition I think she uncovered a central truth there: needing to be taken and made to give from your most hidden, most primitive layers is part of submission, and that may come out in strange forms.

I'm turned on sometimes by reading about punishments that would in real life just be unforgivably crude and barbaric - I recall a story (by a mainstream writer, skilfully designed to be hot but also to look at power exchange in a not-just-bdsm sense) about a young, beautiful noblewoman at the russian 18th century court of Elizabeth (reigned at mid-century, d.1762) who gets framed for adultery, is flogged in the presence of the palace guard - brute, big guys - courtiers and the sadistic Sovereign herself, and then surrendred to the soldiers to be fucked like a camp whore. Being carried out to the barracks she whispers that she is pregnant; the soldiers don't think it's true by their rough methods and it's reported to the Czarina, her enemy, who on the spot orders that her tongue be cut out "for lying - she was already a whore anyway" after which she is packed off to Siberia. The child came out dead, we are told in one brief sentence. This is barbarism, but also a very turning-on story precisely because of the terse way it's told and the brute irrevocability of what she has to undergo (anyone else with me in feeling tingled by the extraction of her tongue?) Well, I know I felt both hot and guilty when I came upon that one in my teens....

[Hime]

I think sexual fantasies should sometimes aim to be dangerous, vertiginous and uncomfortable - that's in their nature, one side of them. I don't often feel that while writing, but sometimes after it's been published here, or in reading it for myself, feeling that now it's spelled out and open to see for others, it may or may not be something I would want to carry through in real life, but the wish or thrill is there. Tessa once said as we were discussing this that a core point of submission was the wish to be cherished in your lowest, most primitive form, one could also read that as the most rough and "sinful" form 8and thereby getting forgiven and accepted deep in your most naked being). With her intuition I think she uncovered a central truth there: needing to be taken and made to give from your most hidden, most primitive layers is part of submission, and that may come out in strange forms.


That's a really good point, and well-put. I think a powerful part of submission for me is the feeling of being exposed. A lot of the time I feel like people I meet like me because they don't really know me; with D I feel like he has power over me because he knows all of my secrets and still loves me.

[Logic1]

Scare and scare. I am not sure scare is the right word for me, but I sure can surprise myself as to what I find exciting and sexually arousing that I wouldn´t even touch in real life.

[DOMLORD]

i was once afaird of power. the vision of two ogres beating each other into pulp is a nightmare i often had after fighting a kid down the street when i was five. i thouroughly enjoyed it, won, and was then punished for fighting even though he wanted to.

also being abducted by aliens was a weird scence when i turned around in the shower. consequently i always shower with my back to the shower head.

as far as S/M goes though the most extreme fantasy i've gotten off with always end in "American Psycho" style stuff while i masturbate to death metal to keep my load from going.

[Arria]

I think most of us meet that point sooner or later.

What usually helps me is a) reading stories or b) going to a party and see what other people dream about / actually do. It leaves me with a comfortable feeling of "my, am I harmless by comparison".

:-)

[markus_valtion]

i scare myself on a regular basis. sometimes i have days that my fanatasies are just to dark and evil for me to handle. i often fantasize about demons. massacres being killed or tortured to death. unfortunately it doesnt stop there.

i have had alot of bad stuff hapen to me when i was little and its only making things worse. i often wake up screaming shaking and covered in sweat and sometime realy horny.

but over the years i have learned not to run away from it but to embrace it.
i think about what hapend and about what it could mean. i try to find symbols in my dreams. and i look up the meaning in books that explain dreams. and see what they could mean.

to me fantasies, dreams and nightmare are scary but for a reason. they help me through my everyday life.

[casie1124]

I have actually been thinking this myself lately. I often times surprise myself with the things I fantasize about. I'm not sure why but my imagination left to wonder goes down some very dark places. Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever have the courage to act some of them out, and others well they are just things of thought never action :)

[fetishdj]

A short aside... recently someone has been posting on a blog about how Joss Whedon's Firefly is chauvanist male propaganda and that Joss himself (who is regarded by many sane feminists to be a strong supporter of the feminist movement) is an evil woman hater. She cites examples in the text that 'prove' this to be so. Her argument has been roundly ripped apart by many... however, one point I made about this is that a writer is not their character. Elements of your personality may end up in characters you write but they are not you. What they do is not what you would do in that situation. Agatha Christie was not a murderer because she wrote about murderers, David Starkey (famous historian who writes a lot about the Tudor monarchy) is not an overweight, aldulterous, serial monogamist because he wrote a book about Henry VIII.

Fiction is fiction and stays fiction in the majority of cases (barring one or two rather deranged individuals who take things too far in emulating heroes from books or TV that the media tend to over emphasise...).

Sometimes fiction is a dark mirror of reality, often it is a cautionary tale - what would happen to you if you did... whatever? The story tells you what is likely to happen so that a) you don't have to actually do it and b) you are warned about the serious consequences. IN fact, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this is how we have always used stories - ever since the times of early man. We, as a species, have always told 'what if' stories in our minds and later wrote them down. Some of these are simple 'What if I ran at that gazelle with a spear? Would the lion that is also stalking it get me first or am I fast enough to beat it?' Answering that question successfully, building an effective model of the future, became an important survival trait and so story became an important part of life and human evolution. Other stories are more complex, these predictions of the future then developed into fiction.

But I digress... my point is that it is good to be scared. Being scared means that you are testing limits of imagination, bending some rules and therefore making something more creative than if you played it safe. If you have that 'Oh god' feeling, it means you are onto a winner because controversy sells stories... look at Salmon Rushdie and tell me that annoying the Ayatollah and putting his life in danger did not help sell his book... :)

[Thrasher]

[QUOTE]Tessa once said as we were discussing this that a core point of submission was the wish to be cherished in your lowest, most primitive form, one could also read that as your most rough and "sinful" form (and thereby being forgiven and accepted deep in your most naked being). With her intuition I think she uncovered a central truth there: needing to be taken and made to give from your most hidden, most primitive layers is part of submission, and that may come out in strange forms.




[QUOTE]
So, I just felt it might help to add that our most sinful, primitive and crude form is...dare I say it? It is our own inner child, is it not? Don't take this the wrong way. I mean the inner self that we as adults have within us. It wants to be seen. It wants to bear witness. But he/she is hiding. Yes. I think it is very insightful. Maybe that's why we write, some of us, some of the time: to have sightings of this strange being from the past. To somehow wave and acknowledge and make peace with her. Or him.

[Hime]

Just wanted to add something to this thread, regarding the point of being accepted in your most debased form:

I have never been so much for the "you're a slut," "you're a whore," kind of thing. To me it's fun and playful, but not really the same kind of erotic trigger as it is for my submissive girl, who definitely needs that kind of talk to get into a submissive state of mind. When I'm a dom with her I find it fun to do that, but I always sort of figured that as a sub, I'm not really into name-calling.

And then last week I was being a sub in a scene with someone who'd only been a friend until then, and she was playing the role of someone pretty much evil and unhinged (oh how I <3 role playing... ) and she murmured in my ear, "you're not a good girl. You're dark, and perverse, and you've always wanted this... you're just like me."

and my brain pretty much went THUMP and fizzled out of commission for the next, um, hour? two hours? No idea. Anyway, the point is that apparently I *do* like name-calling. It just has to be something that's actually a source of shame for me in RL, and being a slut doesn't really do that for me. I like being a slut. It's fun, and it makes my partners happy too. But when she said that, she was unearthing one of the things I really do worry about in myself, and tacitly accepting it by bringing it into play.

I felt like that was kind of a huge moment for me as a submissive, in terms of changing the way I see the whole experience. More and more I think that Tessa is right that, at least for me, this is a core part of submission. And realizing that makes me feel better about the fact that I have these doubts about myself in the first place.

[Nixxi_Chaos]

I used to be, a couple years ago when I realized that I was into more than just general bdsm stuff. I was probably like 14 when I realized that snuff and torture did things to me that normal porn didn't even touch on, I realized that I hurt myself out of pleasure more than anything. I was mainly afraid I was the only person, finding other people online (or hearing of them, rather, I've yet to find anyone into my specific preferences) helped that though.

[leo9]

I've scared other people: thir still has trouble with my writing so much brutally non-consensual stuff. And a lot of people are upset over a story I wrote called "Barbecuing Betty", about a slave being roasted alive and glorying in being able to suffer so horribly for her Mistress' pleasure. (I was trying to play with Dolcettian woman-eating fantasies without the death element, by setting it in a future where any amount of injury can be repaired good as new.) But I don't think I have ever worried myself about the difference between fantasy and reality.