Suggestions?

[hybridmoment]

So, my longtime boyfriend knows what I am into and has given me sex the way I wanted maybe a hand full of times. I don't know how, however, to get him to stop saying he is interested in slave training and just do it. Any Suggestions or advice?

[SirTimothyk]

hybrid,
do something to provoke him to punish you. see how he reacts. Has he punished you before?
Tim

[annie]

hybrid,
do something to provoke him to punish you. see how he reacts. Has he punished you before?
Tim

That seems like a dangerous way to get to be trained. She didn't indicate if he was a dominate or not, his experience level, etc. And, as a sub, imho, you NEVER provoke a dominate into punishment. After all punishment isn't supposed to be fun for anyone so why provoke it? Especially if the person has only talked about training but has yet to actually act on the words.

Plus, she never mentioned what type of training past slave training. Which for her could be something different then for me, then for subbie A, depending on what the understanding and desire is.

And, if he doesn't have experience, which may be the case, to train her then he certainly doesn't have experience to punish her and could do serious harm, especially if he was angered in her provoking him and he reacts during that anger.

I'm sorry but the suggestion in my mind holds no merit except to cause harm (not in a good way) to the sub, which SHOULD NEVER be a dominates first option. And anyone who uses that as a "training method" in anything other then play I would consider dangerous and perhaps even a player and not someone truly interested in the growth and safety of the sub.


So, my longtime boyfriend knows what I am into and has given me sex the way I wanted maybe a hand full of times. I don't know how, however, to get him to stop saying he is interested in slave training and just do it. Any Suggestions or advice?

Honestly hybrid, without more information it is hard to offer much advice. From the small bit you have stated, if he is just discussing it and not acting on it I am guessing (and it is only a guess) that he is:

1. Not really interested
2. Unsure of what to do or how to start
3. Is interested but not enough to actually put motion to it, meaning he lacks little self motivation in this area.

If #2 is the case that can be solved by a long discussion and several good books and sites about training and for him to sign up for a site like this, look through the threads, and speak to experienced Doms like Ozme, Sir Russell or ID. Basically going through some Dom training so to speak. Or depending on your location you both could join a local BDSM group and attend different items they may offer to help in the training process.

If the reason is #1 or #3 the chances of you getting him to "just do it" is probably relatively slim for an assortment of reasons. And honestly, if the reasons are #1 or #3 what type of dominate would he really be? Would he truly fulfill your needs on a part time basis? (Because, based on human nature, I seriously doubt it would be more then "part time" at best.) If yes, then that may work for you. But, would he also continue with it or would it be only when it works for him? Once again if that meets your needs great, but don't expect him to start training you and become super Dom and stick with it, etc. As many on here could tell you that seldom happens without a lot more bumps and set backs along the way.

All of that being said, sit down and talk to him about it. Explain your feelings, offer suggestions on how to begin, resources of information, perhaps a fantasy or two, maybe something as simple as kneeling by him at times or meeting him at the door that way and put the ball in his court. If it continues to roll across the floor without being tossed at the hoop that should indicate to you his interest and intent.

[GS42]

hybridmoment,


I hope to add something to this thread because I have been in a similar situation with a submissive girlfriend. It differs from what you describe in the sense that I introduced her to her submissive side, and not vice-versa as you write here. The result, however, was that she got more and more interested and requested 'slave training' as you state it.

I was really drawn to this idea and said so, but also knew I was not yet capable of shaping someone safely in that way. For 'training' I felt like I needed to be in complete and full control and have good insight in what actions provoke which responses in her, and I was sure I could not do that (yet).

I am now a good year further and confident that I have learned alot about the effects of training and conditioning. This did not happen by itself and I think here lies the task for you: Show your boyfriend he does not have to jump in the deep end (which would be dangerous for both of you), and does not have to jump alone.

First of all, find out, as just_annie eloquently said, what he really wants out of the relationship and whether this meets your need to be controlled. If he cannot be what you want, you just can't be trained by him.

If both he and you think he can be, I would not advise you putting the ball passivly in his court by kneeling. This does not help him guide or train you, it just gives an opportunity he might not be able to handle (yet). If I were in your shoes, I would write down your idea of slave-training and talk it over with him. What are the things you want to be trained in? What would be your goals? (If I might suggest, positions are always a good start for training because they require extensive interaction between dom and sub, are (usually) not very emotionally laden and can give nice progress in a weeks' time.)

So, to sum it up, try to find out whether he can and wants to be the dom you need, and if so, work out a training schedule together. If he needs help domming, I'd suggest either a book about dog-training (no offence intended, they really offer good insight) or a trip to the forums.

A last warning to you: make sure that nowhere in the training your confidence or emotions are being undermined; that is never a part of any training.


Good luck and please keep us posted.


PS: The 'confused (http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14996)' thread might offer some insight also.

[fetishdj]

I get the impression that he is not in the scene but you are? If this is the case then it is likely that he has no idea how to train you. How can he train you if he does not know how or what to train you in? If this is the case then the suggestions about books, DVDs, web pages etc above are useful as you can then learn together.

I also assume that you have had a frank and open discussion with him about your needs and wants and desires? If not, do so. If that is hard, suggest a game... you each take some time to write out your greatest sexual fantasy, in detail. Then you each read each other's, promising to have an open mind about them, and discuss how you feel about them. You, of course, will write down about your desire for slavery and this may give him a clue. You should also pay attention to what he wants - as a good slave should.

An extreme possibility (which you may or may not be brave enough for) is to give some undeniable signal that you are willing to serve him. Find a time when you have a lot of free time (an afternoon and evening for yourself, an evening for him). Clean the house, prepare a nice dinner and dress yourself appropriately - you can be totally naked or wear something suitably submissive. When he gets to the house (whether it is your shared house or your house you have invited him to - make sure he has no idea what you plan, just tell him you have a surprise) let him find you kneeling in the room, waiting for him with a drink ready. Spend the evening serving him, be perfectly submissive, let him eat first and ask permission to eat from him when he has finished. Ask how you should eat your food. When you have eaten, offer him a foot rub, back rub or some other service. When you leave the table and go to the living room, kneel at his feet rather than sit on the settee. Basically, let him see how good it can be to have you as his slave. If he seems uncomfortable with any of this, you can try to reassure him and see if he settles into enjoying it. If, however, he is totally freaked out by it, then its possible that being a Dom is not for him. Whatever the outcome, make sure you get a chance to talk to him about it afterwards so you can both assess your responses to it. If he likes the idea of being your Dom then you can discuss your rules and limits and so on using the expereince as a baseline - if he likes you kneeling at his feet, for example, but not eating your food off the floor then you can adjust things accordingly. Equally, if there was anything you didn't like about the experience then you can tell him this as well. Training is about learning how to serve a Dom but also learning what you yourself enjoy and do not enjoy.

[gemmy]

That seems like a dangerous way to get to be trained. She didn't indicate if he was a dominate or not, his experience level, etc. And, as a sub, imho, you NEVER provoke a dominate into punishment. After all punishment isn't supposed to be fun for anyone so why provoke it? Especially if the person has only talked about training but has yet to actually act on the words.

Plus, she never mentioned what type of training past slave training. Which for her could be something different then for me, then for subbie A, depending on what the understanding and desire is.

And, if he doesn't have experience, which may be the case, to train her then he certainly doesn't have experience to punish her and could do serious harm, especially if he was angered in her provoking him and he reacts during that anger.

I'm sorry but the suggestion in my mind holds no merit except to cause harm (not in a good way) to the sub, which SHOULD NEVER be a dominates first option. And anyone who uses that as a "training method" in anything other then play I would consider dangerous and perhaps even a player and not someone truly interested in the growth and safety of the sub.


I couldn't agree more annie - how very scary would that be, one could very well just be dealing with an abuser just looking for an opportunity to lash out - punishment shouldn't ever be solicited as a way into BDSM activities *shakes head*


Honestly hybrid, without more information it is hard to offer much advice. From the small bit you have stated, if he is just discussing it and not acting on it I am guessing (and it is only a guess) that he is:

1. Not really interested
2. Unsure of what to do or how to start
3. Is interested but not enough to actually put motion to it, meaning he lacks little self motivation in this area.

If #2 is the case that can be solved by a long discussion and several good books and sites about training and for him to sign up for a site like this, look through the threads, and speak to experienced Doms like Ozme, Sir Russell or ID. Basically going through some Dom training so to speak. Or depending on your location you both could join a local BDSM group and attend different items they may offer to help in the training process.

If the reason is #1 or #3 the chances of you getting him to "just do it" is probably relatively slim for an assortment of reasons. And honestly, if the reasons are #1 or #3 what type of dominate would he really be? Would he truly fulfill your needs on a part time basis? (Because, based on human nature, I seriously doubt it would be more then "part time" at best.) If yes, then that may work for you. But, would he also continue with it or would it be only when it works for him? Once again if that meets your needs great, but don't expect him to start training you and become super Dom and stick with it, etc. As many on here could tell you that seldom happens without a lot more bumps and set backs along the way.

All of that being said, sit down and talk to him about it. Explain your feelings, offer suggestions on how to begin, resources of information, perhaps a fantasy or two, maybe something as simple as kneeling by him at times or meeting him at the door that way and put the ball in his court. If it continues to roll across the floor without being tossed at the hoop that should indicate to you his interest and intent.

Hybrid, this is great advice and if I were you, I would pay very close attention to it. Knowing if he's really Dom or not is imperative otherwise you will just be trying to 'Top him from the bottom' which only makes a sub a resentful sub and certainly not a happy one

[Ozme52]

hybrid, how much experience do YOU have. If a fair amount, there's nothing wrong with providing him some guidance. (Once a scene has started though, take his lead lest you do 'top from the bottom.') Afterward, a conversation about how it went and what you would have wanted differently is also okay. If he has dominant tendancies, he will learn very quickly.

If you don't have much experience and are hoping to learn together, then I would indeed go with preparing your abode with some toys, greeting him on your knees, offering yourself... perhaps with "How may this girl (or slave) serve you?" and being for him what you want to be. Again, if he has it in him to dominate you, he will easily slide into the role. Thereafter, have the conversations, discuss what was good for you and what was uncomfortable and certainly what was bad.

If this doesn't work, there are other approaches we can (all) discuss.

PS. Have a safeword. A way for you to initiate a hold or stop activities. Two reasons. One, if something happens you just can't abide... or if you get hurt and really need to stop... but also for him. So HE knows that you are in fact okay and he can continue.

[Tojo]

Just sit down & talk to him about it hybrid.

If you want something from him, it's up to you to convey that in a way that works.

There's probably a hundred different things you can do, but ultimately it gets down to you guys working out what you both want with each other.

Have fun & let us know how it goes. :wave:

Edit- one other thing springs to mind, that there's a perception that any guy should automatically know how to Dom someone. That's not the case at all, if a sub knows more it's up to them to 'take the lead' as it were. We all have to start somewhere, & I for one learnt a lot from a very experienced sub.

[hybridmoment]

hybrid, how much experience do YOU have. If a fair amount, there's nothing wrong with providing him some guidance. (Once a scene has started though, take his lead lest you do 'top from the bottom.') Afterward, a conversation about how it went and what you would have wanted differently is also okay. If he has dominant tendancies, he will learn very quickly.

If you don't have much experience and are hoping to learn together, then I would indeed go with preparing your abode with some toys, greeting him on your knees, offering yourself... perhaps with "How may this girl (or slave) serve you?" and being for him what you want to be. Again, if he has it in him to dominate you, he will easily slide into the role. Thereafter, have the conversations, discuss what was good for you and what was uncomfortable and certainly what was bad.

If this doesn't work, there are other approaches we can (all) discuss.

PS. Have a safeword. A way for you to initiate a hold or stop activities. Two reasons. One, if something happens you just can't abide... or if you get hurt and really need to stop... but also for him. So HE knows that you are in fact okay and he can continue.

I am book smart in this but not actually in the act, in fact I was a virgin untill said boyfriend came around. He has dominant tendencies, and he likes it rough. I have a trunk full of toys waiting to be played with, but it's boring, since I've just been using them for masturbation. He gets embarrassed easy, and dislikes it when I have "girl-talk" with my friends. The closest to getting him to do this was that he's recently taken up calling my "baby girl," which he never had done in my two and 1/2 years of being with him.

He likes it when I greet him on all fours, but he doesn't really get into it from that. However, sometimes in the shower he'll get into the groove of things, but the likelyhood of this is about once maybe every two months. I've had talks, we've disscussed limits and safewords, and what he likes, yet nothing seems to blossom from this. It's very frustrating.

[Ozme52]

I am book smart in this but not actually in the act, in fact I was a virgin untill said boyfriend came around. He has dominant tendencies, and he likes it rough. I have a trunk full of toys waiting to be played with, but it's boring, since I've just been using them for masturbation. He gets embarrassed easy, and dislikes it when I have "girl-talk" with my friends. The closest to getting him to do this was that he's recently taken up calling my "baby girl," which he never had done in my two and 1/2 years of being with him.

He likes it when I greet him on all fours, but he doesn't really get into it from that. However, sometimes in the shower he'll get into the groove of things, but the likelyhood of this is about once maybe every two months. I've had talks, we've disscussed limits and safewords, and what he likes, yet nothing seems to blossom from this. It's very frustrating.

There are many facets to BDSM. D/s is merely one of them and Master/slave is merely one kind of D/s. You say he likes rough sex. That too is a facet of BDSM and it doesn't necessarily imply he is a dominant. Lot's of people are into the giving or getting of pain combined with their pleasure but have no interest in controlling or being controlled.

You may be in a take it or leave it situation.

But before we go there, let's go back to your original post and ask "What do you mean and think of when you say 'slave training'?" There may be approaches we can suggest based on better understanding what you are looking for.

[jeanne]

A 'been there/done that' post:

Unfortunately, submissive newbies come here thinking that all the experienced Doms and subs know 'tricks' to turn their loved ones dominant. That there's some combination of words and actions that will unlock their husband's/boyfriend's 'natural' dom tendencies...and there isn't. You may get a little more kink, but that's about it. And if you are submissive, that'll come to feel worse than no kink at all, because you'll know he's doing it for you, which is completely the opposite of what you need as a submissive.

In the year that I've been here on the library, I can't count the number of these posts I've read, including my own.

Once in a while, someone actually DOES have latent Dom tendencies, and both partners are very happy and satisfied. It's just very rare.

[fetishdj]

Edit- one other thing springs to mind, that there's a perception that any guy should automatically know how to Dom someone. That's not the case at all, if a sub knows more it's up to them to 'take the lead' as it were. We all have to start somewhere, & I for one learnt a lot from a very experienced sub.

Yep... and any male sub is an immediate challenge to this perception. I tried to be a dominant once but even with a very experienced sub I was singularly useless at it because I was too nice - held back when I should have kept going for fear of hurting the sub (for all that she told me I wasn't hurting her enough) and also for fear of the responsibility of controlling someone's life in that very extreme way.

I think several posters on here may be right in that you may only be destined for kinky sex with this man. However, think of that as better than nothing and maybe, as Jeanne says, he may develop into one of the rare latent Doms. So, how about this:

Do the writing game and write about your fantasies. Promise to enact each other's fantasies at some point. In your fantasy, incorporate at least one of the toys you have hidden away. When he says 'we don't have one of those' tell him not to worry about it and produce it. Make sure you take this slowly so as not to scare him too much (you should know better than any how much he can take at present). Make sure that the experience is fun for both of you and that he is aware that carrying out your fantasy means he gets his as well. You can repeat this task several times, introducing a new toy each time, until you have an empty 'secret' toy bag and a full 'open' bag. Then you can start getting more toys :)

At all times, keep the communication open at all times. Safewords are a good idea in any play. I would suggest the traffic light system - green, amber and red for 'fine', 'a little uncomfortable but ok for now' and 'stop right now!'. This gives a graded response that indicates to him that he should slow down rather than stop every time you say the word. If you do safeword, don't forget it is not necessarily the end of the session. It could merely be time for a break and a chat (and a hug) to see if you are ok and maybe a chance to clean up a little before carrying on.

[Sir_Russell]

Only the uninformed feel that any male can dominate. I for one hear from quite a few women that crave to crawl and kneel be restrained but their husbands just aren't up to it. I am amazed each time but then some are just programmed as a vanilla feeling that the kink is just wrong.

Gor says that men are Doms and woman are subs by and large and that too is wrong. I was married to a natural Domme that served me for a long time and quite happily but in the end when we were going through a huge crisis she could not contain her Domme any longer and that ended up killing us.

Be who you are and be proud of it whether that is Dominant, submissive or even vanilla. Only when you feel that you aren't walking in the right shoes should you reassess and work on changing.

[fetishdj]

All true, Sir Russell. And one thing to note as well as all this is that sometimes a person may be dominant in real life and in public but be submissive in private. I have known some women who are classic Domme types in public but if you get them in private they are the ones who need to be dominated.

Humans, like dogs, do not come preinstalled with a set of software drivers that instruct them in how to behave. You can't tell an untrained dog to 'sit' without first telling them what the word 'sit' means. Similarly you cannot say to a human 'dominate me' and expect them to immediately assume the mannerisms and demeanour of a good Dom. Some of these things are instinctual (dogs will automatically sit if you hold your hand above your head when they are looking at it because it is the best way to keep an eye on the food they think may be in your fist - try it if you have a dog, all you then have to do is associate that movement with the word sit and you are there) but a lot still has to be taught.

[Mad Lews]

I am book smart in this but not actually in the act, in fact I was a virgin untill said boyfriend came around. He has dominant tendencies, and he likes it rough. I have a trunk full of toys waiting to be played with, but it's boring, since I've just been using them for masturbation. He gets embarrassed easy, and dislikes it when I have "girl-talk" with my friends. The closest to getting him to do this was that he's recently taken up calling my "baby girl," which he never had done in my two and 1/2 years of being with him.

He likes it when I greet him on all fours, but he doesn't really get into it from that. However, sometimes in the shower he'll get into the groove of things, but the likelyhood of this is about once maybe every two months. I've had talks, we've disscussed limits and safewords, and what he likes, yet nothing seems to blossom from this. It's very frustrating.

Not knowing where you're from I'm not sure if this is helpful. You both sound a little unsure so maybe some gentle encouragement. Have you ever considered a local munch? These tend to be very nonthreatening gatherings where people talk about the lifestyle. some groups have demos and speakers others are more like a gathering of friends. Go with an open mind and your boyfriend may discover that kinky people are pretty normal too. Sometimes there are play parties afterwards but avoid that for the first few times and just get comfortable with each other.

It's a thought, http://www.drkdesyre.com/munchfaq.html has info on Munchs and locations look for something nearby and give it a try. If you have a choice try a couple until you find a group you're comfortable with.

Take care
Mad Lews

[lily27]

Gor says that men are Doms and woman are subs by and large and that too is wrong.

Actually, you are wrong.

Gor does not state that men are Doms and women are subs. The concept is that men are generally dominant, and women are generally submissive. There is a big difference between being naturally dominant, and being a Dom, just like there is a difference between being naturally athletic and being a tennis pro. One is a general tendency, and the other takes interest, talent, skill, practice, and training.

Gor also acknowledges that natural tendencies in a total population does not apply to every individual on a case by case basis. Absolutely there are dominant women, and submissive men, and that is accounted for, acknowledged, and celebrated.

It is best not to present yourself as being "all knowing" when that clearly isn't the case.