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Hime
05-18-2008, 12:08 PM
Okay, this is going to be long. I'm going to try to make it sexy in parts and funny in other parts (okay, and sometimes in the same parts) to somewhat mitigate the tl;dr factor. General idea: I'm just not into the stuff I used to be into anymore. I'm into different stuff. And it's confusing me and making me kind of sad.

Some of you might remember things I have posted in the past about my exploration of D/S and other fun stuff with my husband/master D. It was a bit of a struggle for us to communicate about our respective kinks, but we made it work in ways that have been ridiculous amounts of fun over the years. We did a lot of things that incorporated both my need to submit and his fetish for breasts and breast expansion -- him making me show off my cleavage, wear padding or other enhancements, and, in the long term, discussing me getting implants as a way of showing his ownership of me.

We also did a lot of very lovely D/S stuff, including tasks and punishments, me writing in a journal for him, sitting at his feet and removing his shoes at the end of the day, wearing a collar and, every once in a while, a leash, etc. Although it's been a long time since we've done this, a few times we played a game where he was a teacher and I was his student. I even had the little schoolgirl outfit for added "authenticity." Nothing made me happier than pleasing my master and being his pet. The breast expansion became part of that experience for me -- an opportunity to be a perfect fuck-toy to live up to all of his fantasies.

At this point I sort of have to drop the sexy part and go into the less-sexy parts. For a long time now, I've been aware that my submissive leanings are a direct result of some screwed-up feelings about my parents, especially my father. I've always been a "daddy's girl," and I've always been driven by this need to meet his approval and make him proud. As I got through high school and college, I had some problems in school that made this more difficult, and at the same time, my father was going through some changes, too, becoming increasingly depressed and demanding, and turning more to drinking to mitigate his problems. I think that my need to be submissive at that time, when I was around 20-22, was largely based on how much I missed the relationship I'd had with my dad when I was a kid, and how much it hurt to still be fighting for the approval of someone who was becoming more and more impossible to please.

Despite whatever he thought I was doing wrong, I graduated from college early, got a good job using my writing skills, and married my wonderful, successful, highly-educated D. I also decided that I'd been under too much stress at school and wanted to take some time off before applying to graduate school to build my resume and figure out what I wanted to do with my life. This led to my dad freaking out and not talking to me for weeks, and while he got over it, he still sometimes refers to me as a "college dropout" because I didn't immediately enter a graduate program. These days it's obvious that he isn't the same person I've always wanted to prove myself to. It still hurts, but I'm not playing that game anymore. I'm living for myself and D., not to enable anyone else to live vicariously through me.

So it's hard for me to see this as unrelated to the fact that lately, I'm just not submissive the way I used to be. I don't want to lower my eyes and do my very best to be perfect for my master. I don't feel like that's a character I can relate to -- I mean, you all know that I'm an opinionated, sarcastic, self-driven kind of person and that I don't like to shut my mouth and look pretty. It's not me. I feel like I needed that persona for a while, to help me get through that transition period of learning to be independent. It really helped, having D tell me that I'm his beautiful pet and he's so proud to show me off. It made me feel worthwhile in the way I was used to measuring worth, while I was working on developing other ways of valuing myself. And there is still something beautiful about kneeling on the floor to wash his feet. It makes me feel happy and right. But the whole "yes, Master, whatever you wish" thing is not really working for me anymore.

The other parallel thing that's been going on with me is that I've had a lot of opportunities lately to explore other facets of my sexuality. We've made the leap to polyamory, which is a wonderful way to see first-hand what works for a variety of different individuals and couples. I found out that sometimes, I do actually like to be dominant. That made me feel strong and confident, but it also made me question my identity as a submissive. And in playing with a couple of other friends and partners, I've figured out a lot of what still works for me as a submissive. I like backtalk and conflict. I did a scene with one friend of mine where I was supposed to be an unwilling captive, meaning that I got to do a lot of struggling and arguing and sarcastic commentary. And I really, really enjoyed that. It felt like I was still myself, just in an unlikely sort of situation. I liked that I had agency.

I'm still really drawn to any kind of power imbalance or weird interpersonal dynamic in movies, tv shows etc. I'm a slash fangirl -- I get off on relationships between characters, not just between bodies. When I talked to D. about the changes I've been going through, he asked me if I wasn't into D/S anymore. And, well, yes, I still am. It's a part of me that I don't think I'll ever lose. But the relationships that attract and arouse me aren't pure dominance and submission -- they come with conflict and resistance. One character might be clearly submissive to the other, but he never really wants to be, and he at least tries to put up a fight. When someone is tied up in a movie, they don't say "yes, Master." They say "I'll never talk!" Because it's more interesting that way. At least, it's more interesting to me.

That's the kind of scene I want to do. And I am having zero success in explaining that to D. I can't blame him -- it's kind of a weird thing to want, I guess. But this is a whole subculture built around wanting weird things. So I thought it couldn't hurt to ask. Does anyone here know where I'm coming from? Is this an epic case of "submission: ur doin it wrong?" Is there a name or a label or, please God, a faq or a wiki about the specific kind of pervert that I am turning out to be? Or am I just stuck forging my own path from here?

Stories about your own experiences are more than welcome. :)

GS42
05-18-2008, 04:55 PM
I cannot share any experiences which would be of much help, all I have to offer is an outsiders view of what you've written.

Firstly, the way you've thought about your own submissive nature and its origin seems to have provided indeed a good fit, even now. If, as you say, the relationship with your father has played a large part in your submission, I think it still continues to do so. Maybe in the past you've allowed your father to live through you, now you try to fight that by making your own choices. It could be entirely coincidental, of course, but this parallel seems to have seeped through into your submission-play, where you wish to fight anyone taking control. (Personally I'd go for coincidence, but it did strike me.)

Secondly you appear to have an image of 'standard' subbie behaviour stuck in your mind (lowering eyes saying 'Yes Master, anything you wish'), which you seem to measure yourself up to. Now that you've found that doesn't fit you, first thing you ask for is another standard to compare to. No wonder you're a little lost... ;)

Think about what makes you feel happy and right. Don't worry about finding a name for whatever it turns out to be. You seem to be quite an amazing writer: use it. You express yourself so well that I find it hard to believe you have zero succes explaining anything to anyone. I'm sure writing to your husband about how you feel will help him to understand.

I'd say you're stuck forging your own path from here, but frankly I wouldn't like to follow a path already made by someone else.

Euryleia
05-18-2008, 05:23 PM
Hime, this was an interesting read and I couldn't help smiling. Not at you, mind, but because pieces of it are similar to my own little quirks.

I think the kink itself is forced submission. You want to be made to do what you really want to do anyway. There are those lovely prisoner/captive games to play but you don't necessarily want to live that way.

When I was coming out into the lifestyle, I was pretty clueless. I had dabbled in light bondage with my partners but not much else. I found myself involved with an older woman who delighted in making me do new things and pushing my limits. It goes without saying that I didn't know from safe, sane or consensual.

I guess you could say I learned from the bottom. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy what I did because I most certainly did. There is just something in me that needs to be pushed to let go. I remained very much a brat and a smart-ass, though. Once she had taken all my virginities and taken her leave, I was left with a disinclination to be on the bottom regularly anymore.

These days, I'm pretty dominant in almost all of my life, both personal and professional. I'm the head of household and only rarely let the reins go. I still call myself a switch, though, because there is still a part of me that enjoys the push/pull of getting the tables turned.

This isn't an everyday occurrence but I do enjoy it when my pet has taken the bit between her teeth and managed to wrestle the control away from me. I trusted her to force me to submit and to later take her punishment/reward that she has earned.

Power exchanges play a large part in my fantasies and in my writings. I wouldn't trade them (or the memories) for the world. I consider myself lucky when I find partners that compliment my switch percentages.

Good luck in communicating your desires and best wishes in getting what you want.

Tojo
05-18-2008, 05:35 PM
A good point GS42, a D/s relationship is what you & Himself want to make it, not what it says in the Dom manual.

One observation- D/s can & usually does bring up all sorts of stuff, which needs addressing in some way.

Things change- the way we feel is constantly changing, & just like any relationship, a D/s one needs to be flexible.


You seem to be trying to 'figure it out' Hime, from what I can gather. What's important is how you feel, not who's who & what's what.

Writing things down, as Euryleia says is a well known technique for communication & for working out how you feel yourself. Perhaps you could sit down & write out your wildest fantasy? You don't even have to show anyone else.

One last comment- (voice of experience stuff!) change of any sort always seems scary. Hell, I used to be a sub for years & years, & now am a Dom- don't think that was easy. :32:

gloombunny
05-20-2008, 10:59 PM
Is there a name or a label or, please God, a faq or a wiki about the specific kind of pervert that I am turning out to be? Or am I just stuck forging my own path from here?

I think it's known as "resistance play". Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much about it online, and much of what I did find via google defines that as specifically physical resistance, i.e., wrestling or "fighting" for forceful control, which is a more restrictive definition than I'm used to.

I have a friend who's got a fair amount of experience with it, I think. I'll ask her next time I see her online, but her online appearances are sporadic at best. :/

Hime
05-21-2008, 08:36 PM
I think it's known as "resistance play". Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much about it online, and much of what I did find via google defines that as specifically physical resistance, i.e., wrestling or "fighting" for forceful control, which is a more restrictive definition than I'm used to.

I have a friend who's got a fair amount of experience with it, I think. I'll ask her next time I see her online, but her online appearances are sporadic at best. :/

When I googled for "forced submission" everything I found was lame porn for straight men and angry political essays. I was like "I AM A CAT. I CAN NOT USE THIS."

Euryleia
05-21-2008, 08:58 PM
Try searching for a few other terms: ravishment, forced submission or consensual non-consent.

ashtonDs
05-23-2008, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by GS42:
you appear to have an image of 'standard' subbie behaviour stuck in your mind (lowering eyes saying 'Yes Master, anything you wish'), which you seem to measure yourself up to

One quick observation. (This may just be splitting hairs. If so feel free to ignore.) You don't have to question your standing as a sub. That IS what you are. One thing you are not, is a slave. (lowering your eyes...)

ps Maybe you'll be the one who writes the book, so to speak , on resistance play :)