The Perfect Dom

[Tojo]

I often think new people can get the wrong impression from sites such as this, for the simple reason that some Doms- often the most vocal ones, seem compelled to create an impression of unquestionable perfection.

From memory, it was Isabelle who came up with the line ‘I couldn’t respect a Dom who lacked humility’

Do we need to be perfect? Should we be able to accept criticism and admit that we make mistakes?

Frankly, I see being unable to admit you’re ever wrong, and the inability to accept criticism or be questioned, as character defects that a Dom in particular could do without.

[WyldWyl]

No, a good dom need not be perfect. The fact that I am is neither here nor there, it's just a fact. :P

But a good dom is, like a good person, humble and capable of mistakes, even huge ones. A good dom, again like a good person, simply knows to when to admit when they are wrong or ignorant or mistaken or being silly and attempts to correct it if possible.

[denuseri]

no one is perfect right? i mean if a dom wernt human ( complete with the drawbacks for the human condition) what would anyone need one for, i have a crop and a vibrator, they work pretty well, but are a sad subtitute for a real live dom , the flaws he might possess only accentuate his humanity,

[Euryleia]

Good point, Tojo. Confidence and humility should go hand in hand. A dose of humility will keep confidence from growing into arrogance.

[ashtonDs]

I recently visited a site where a slave girl said in no uncertain terms something to the effect, "I could never respect a Dom that bottomed for someone else." She went on to say that hers is a "real" Dom, all the time.

It is not possible to be dominant at all times. If this "real" Dom lands his little behind in traffic court I don't think he'll be trying to top the judge. Even "the most powerful person in the world" the President, says "yes dear" and does what his wife asks. No one is a Dom all the time.

If they try to tell you otherwise they're not a real Dom.

[Daes]

Perfection, like normalcy, is an illusion. And one's idea of "perfection" will differ from another. Whose to say someone's "perfect dom" /doesn't/ include traits like humility, sensitivity, or compassion?

It is better to ask 'what would be your idea of a perfect dom'.

[Polaris]

Human beings are complex creatures. We make mistakes, often inadvertently, and no amount of caution, care or experience can prevent us from doing so. What counts, I believe, is not that we are all imperfect to a certain degree, but that we learn out of our mistakes, as well as the way we deal with them. In that way, a good dom is somebody who learns from his mistakes and who acknowledges them. A good dom is also somebody who knows when to take advice, or fall back on the strengths of the submissive part. This is of course my personal viewpoint, but I don't think that it makes you less dominant to acknowledge a mistake and apologise for it -- it reduces hard feelings, really. I also think it would be silly to not utilise potential where there is potential -- different people are good at different things, and it would be silly to do something you are not good at yourself in order to remain 'dominant'.

Generally, I think it's easy to get a wrong impression when you go online without knowing anything about BDSM and start to read. It's not only flawless dominants who are never un-dominant and who never make any wrong decisions. There are also the flawless subs/slaves with no limits, always compliant and docile, never struggling with real life or the fact that sometimes you are simply not in the mood. If I recall correctly, there was a thread dealing with this subject a while ago...if you judge only from what you read (and of course not ALL of it is described like that) you'll be easily under the impression that in order to be dominant you will have to be always demanding and never be allowed to fail or make a wrong decision, whereas when you are submissive...well, you better be up to it at all times. Personally, I find that sad. It's a diverse lifestyle, and it's diverse people participating in it. There is no one right way -- there is only a way that is right for you and your respective partner. And this way should be okay -- without having to worry that because you do not apply to the role-model you are not really dominant or not really submissive. Anyway, just my two cents :)

[thrall]

I often think new people can get the wrong impression from sites such as this, for the simple reason that some Doms- often the most vocal ones, seem compelled to create an impression of unquestionable perfection.

From memory, it was Isabelle who came up with the line ‘I couldn’t respect a Dom who lacked humility’

Do we need to be perfect? Should we be able to accept criticism and admit that we make mistakes?

Frankly, I see being unable to admit you’re ever wrong, and the inability to accept criticism or be questioned, as character defects that a Dom in particular could do without.



No one is perfect......we all make mistakes. No one is always right.......ever. It is wrong to portray yourself as such, expect such......or even believe in the possibility of such a person. Much as i would like to think that i am perfect i know full well that i am not..

I believe in good Dom's/Domme's who will strive for perfection, to be the best that they can possibly be. The same holds true for submissives.

I believe that you should question anyone who thinks themselves above and or beyond questions. ........Mainly because i think anyone who is not willing to answer questions has something to hide.....

Strength, power and control lies in the ability to admit your mistakes and learn form them. To ask forgiveness and have the ability ..........to forgive mistakes. To except criticisms and try to do better and learn form what is being said.

The ability of a Dom to say " I'm sorry, I was wrong" or "I made a mistake, please forgive me".........is a powerful thing.

Submitting to someone who does not posses these qualities, these abilities ......in my opinion is a terrible mistake.

thrall

[Whippett]

AN interesting original post Tojo, and some thought provoking comments. As others have said - humans are rarely always right. Being wrong is part of what makes us human.

As Polaris says:
Human beings are complex creatures. We make mistakes, often inadvertently, and no amount of caution, care or experience can prevent us from doing so. What counts, I believe, is not that we are all imperfect to a certain degree, but that we learn out of our mistakes, as well as the way we deal with them. In that way, a good dom is somebody who learns from his mistakes and who acknowledges them. A good dom is also somebody who knows when to take advice, or fall back on the strengths of the submissive part. This is of course my personal viewpoint, but I don't think that it makes you less dominant to acknowledge a mistake and apologise for it -- it reduces hard feelings, really. I also think it would be silly to not utilise potential where there is potential -- different people are good at different things, and it would be silly to do something you are not good at yourself in order to remain 'dominant'.


Mistakes happen - only a fool refuses to learn from his mistakes, or pretends to strengths he doesn't have. To me, being 'dominant' doesn't mean doing everything myself, or even being dominant in situations where I am wiser to defer to another's judgment. I am confident in my abilities - I know what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.

I tend to display that confidence most of the time - sometimes it slips - but then I'm human. And confidence has never prevented me from apologizing if I'm wrong, or admitting I don't know something.

I've often thought that a truly confident person is always ready to admit a mistake and offer restitution, if it's called for. That confidence, I think, is where the dominance comes from too.

I don't have to be right, I don't have to be best, I don't have to be perfect to be dominant. What I do have to be is confident in my own abilities, have the confidence to think before making a decision, and have the confidence to carry my decisions through. But more so, I feel that having the confidence to admit when I was wrong or need help in something without feeling diminished is what makes me able to dominate.

Those who claim never to be wrong, or who feel capable of doing everything are the ones I distrust most (whether the person is dominant or submissive). And any dominant who expects to be taken seriously knows better than to claim perfection.

My two cents worth, anyway.

[Tojo]

I guess if I was perfect I'd figure out how to use the multi-quote, or at least how to turn the darn thing off! :confused:


I don't have to be right, I don't have to be best, I don't have to be perfect to be dominant. What I do have to be is confident in my own abilities, have the confidence to think before making a decision, and have the confidence to carry my decisions through. But more so, I feel that having the confidence to admit when I was wrong or need help in something without feeling diminished is what makes me able to dominate.

That's what I was looking for Whippet- thank you. Whether in everyday life or the D/s community, there's always the 'Top Dogs' the unquestioned ones who have to appear perfect at all times.

I can't see that it's necessary, a real man doesn't have to talk tough or act like he's always in control. Those sort have a tendency to fall apart- if you can't bend, you break.

Friends- I am not perfect. :peter:

I am human & make mistakes. When I first started my great journey into Domland, I was a lousy dominant. I was lucky to have some good people to talk to, & read a lot of stuff.

To be able to admit that you're not perfect, is a powerful experience. I like to grow a little every day- how would I do that if I was already perfect??

Unfortunately it's a step into the unknown, & rather frightening for some. Have courage brothers- being human isn't so bad!

Great- but not perfect- thats me. :D

[thrall]

LMAO....


Being "perfect" reminds me of this........





If you cant dazzle them with brilliance....then baffle them with bullshit!

[His_blizzard]

What on earth are you all talking about??? My Dom is perfect.......




For me! :p

[Aussiegirl1]

This is a great topic and there have already been so many great comments. I would like to reinforce what Polaris said about subs thinking they need to be perfect too.

I know I used to compare myself to other subs, especailly those who started with their frist Dom around the same time as me. After a while, as the confidence in my own abilities grew, I realised that it didn't matter what other subs did! My Master did not want me to be like other subs, he wanted me to be myself.

I also learnt that to be a sub, for me anyway, meant feeling lots of emotions. I was not always like the subs who seem to be able to handle any situation, because I was real and my feelings were real. Those times were actually the ones that helped me to grow as a sub, as it meant I talked to my Master about those feelings and we both learnt from them. Being a sub is about learning and growing with the Dom you are with. I think the same applies to Doms, they too should learn and grow from the sub they are with.

That to me is what makes a Dom perfect - that they can listen, learn, grow and of course, admit they don't know everything. Like Whippet said, they should be confident in their own abilities. Now that sounds perfect to me!

[icey]

whats a perfect Dom/me? Dom/me is a title and is one who doesnt go round reminding everyone who and what they are day in day out,they just quietly and confidently get on with their lives..mistakes and all.
as for humility thats something we all have at times whether its intentional or not, we all also have vanity and pride too whether that be a sub/slave Dom or the family pet lol!!

at times Icehawk has 'served' me and shown 'humility' in some shape or form in many different ways, does that mean hes a perfect or imperfect Dom? nope...it just makes him who and what he is.humility comes in many guises and those who cant admit to having it are either insecure or just havnt worked it out yet, well thats my take on it anyway

[suchaminx]

What on earth are you all talking about??? My Dom is perfect.......




For me! :p



blizz - you have captured it in such a few words.......'Perfect for me'. At the end of the day that is all that matters xx

[Borgs_slave]

I don't believe in perfect. I believe we all have faults and weaknesses. I want a Dom to be human and not try to convey a message of perfectness. Admitting one has faults is something I respect more than not admitting them.

I want someone I can learn and grow with not one that thinks they have learned it all. :)

[_ID_]

you awl are off you're roker... i never make mistakes I are absolutly purfekt

[blythe spirit]

Friends- I am not perfect. :peter:

I agree with almost everything you say, but never have agreed so much before. heheehehe.

[thrall]

you awl are off you're roker... i never make mistakes I are absolutly purfekt


I love you ID!!!!.........

[AdrianaAurora]

Do we need to be perfect? Should we be able to accept criticism and admit that we make mistakes?



For some reason this reminded me of “Secretary”. The movie was an average art flick with not much relevance to BDSM community, but one thing that struck me (and I am sure it was purely incidental on their part) was how full of doubt and imperfect the Dominant was.

Its true that there are submissives who build up impossible fairytale expectations about a perfect Dominant who will come and sweep them of their feet, not unlike knight in shining armour, forgetting one crucial fact – Dominant is a human being.
And sometimes Dominant’s forget that its ok for them to be human.

Basis of a good Dom is that he is mindful of his submissive and aware that its impossible for submissive to grow into her submission if he insists he is perfect and doesn’t grow as a Dominant. But I think you already have that covered. :)

I don’t see Dominant and submissive relationship as one better than another, but rather as two equals of the whole. They are complimentary, each brining into the relationship what the other needs.

Even if it were possible to achieve universal ideal of perfection (whatever that may be), who would want that? Perfection is mind-numbingly boring. Joy comes from the journey, not from reaching the destination.

[lily27]

I know several "Doms" who feel that they can't be questioned or challenged, and most certainly not by a lowly sub. Nothing makes me lose respect for them faster.

[ashtonDs]

The sad thing is everywhere on the web there are subs who are looking for the perfect Dom/me. And on top of that they look down on and/or get angry with those who try to point out the impossibility of their quest. The only thing sadder are the subs who think they have already found it. It's like they read too many BDSM stories and believe them all.


Listening to, or reading their postings, they all sound very lazy. The perfect Dom/me is like Prince Charming, get taken away and life happily ever after is perfect. No effort need be expended on their part. Master or Mistress Charming knows whatever they need without asking and gives it to them. Then, boom. Reality sucks sometimes. A burnt hand is the only teacher they will listen to. (Then again, maybe not. They would probably blame themselves.)

It's too scary to think about someone pushing me into that role, and they would have to push. I'd never take it on myself. But I don't have to worry about that. I'm going to have a like-minded switch. Then we would only need to be perfect half the time. :rolleyes:

[Tojo]

I agree with almost everything you say, but never have agreed so much before. heheehehe.

LMAO!

[Hime]

This thread is a good read for me, since I'm relatively new to topping and sometimes I'm tough on myself when I make mistakes or have one of those "okay... what next?" moments. It's nice to think that those things just make me human, not necessarily a Failure at Dominatrixing.

[AdrianaAurora]

I know several "Doms" who feel that they can't be questioned or challenged, and most certainly not by a lowly sub. Nothing makes me lose respect for them faster.


I know what you mean, they forget that intelligence has nothing to do with dominance or submission. I can sometimes spot a Dominant even before He knows it, and I just as well read insecure wannabes who think submissive is an easy lay.

Everyone makes mistakes; those who admit it and grow from it are the real thing. There is a world of difference (no matter how latent it may seem) between a Dominant and a domineering jerk.

[Logic1]

excellent topic Tojo

I know I make mistakes so therefore I am not perfect.
I do however feel confident in who I am and what I can do. That doesnt mean i am perfect or anywhere near it.
Nobody or nothing is perfect. There is no perfect dog or Master or Slave or car or rollercoaster. There can be somebody who is perfect for you at a specific point in time but that changes just like us people do. Our interests and behavior one day might not be the same the next week.
Perfect is an illusion.

[Whippett]

excellent topic Tojo

I know I make mistakes so therefore I am not perfect.
I do however feel confident in who I am and what I can do. That doesnt mean i am perfect or anywhere near it.
Nobody or nothing is perfect. There is no perfect dog or Master or Slave or car or rollercoaster. There can be somebody who is perfect for you at a specific point in time but that changes just like us people do. Our interests and behavior one day might not be the same the next week.
Perfect is an illusion.

Lol - I agree in everything except one thing Logic1 - there IS a perfect car - a 1927 Bugatti roadster lmao

[TomOfSweden]

Do we need to be perfect? Should we be able to accept criticism and admit that we make mistakes?

Frankly, I see being unable to admit you’re ever wrong, and the inability to accept criticism or be questioned, as character defects that a Dom in particular could do without.

I suspect this is a generation thing. My fathers generation aspired to be perfect. Mine doesn't. I certainly don't. I just do my best and hope I learn along the way.

Also I think that even if I hypothetically might at one point know everything I'd still fuck it up. "Perfection" is relative and shifts a lot depending on who does the observing. It's just one of those philosophical terms which people use as if they had a universally accepted concrete meaning, when they don't. Talking about abstractions is always very difficult. People will always load them with their own connotations. It's hard not to.

[jeanne]

I'm with blizz - my Dom is perfect...for me. I adore Him the most when something doesn't go quite the way He planned and He laughs and says things like "well, that was a lot better in theory". It makes Him even easier to trust, and me even more willing to give Him everything He wants.

Oh! Something else - when He asks my advice because He says I know more about something than He...I just mentally fall at His feet. In the best way possible. :D

[Tojo]

I suspect this is a generation thing. My fathers generation aspired to be perfect. Mine doesn't. I certainly don't. I just do my best and hope I learn along the way.

Also I think that even if I hypothetically might at one point know everything I'd still fuck it up. "Perfection" is relative and shifts a lot depending on who does the observing. It's just one of those philosophical terms which people use as if they had a universally accepted concrete meaning, when they don't. Talking about abstractions is always very difficult. People will always load them with their own connotations. It's hard not to.

Yep, a very good point, the generation thing. My old man always had to be 'right' no matter what. I don't ever remember him admitting to getting something wrong until he hit his late sixties, & then it was rare.

Perhaps that's why it bugs me when I see people who refuse to admit they EVER could be wrong- I know how hard that is for the unitiated to live up to.

Whippett- no car is perfect, if they were they'd have two wheels & handlbars. :rolleyes:

[bellelapine]

I think the perfection comes into play when a Dom/me realizes their humanity. That's just it, they are human and you can only strive to be perfect. Does it mean you are or will be? No. But the fact that the subs see the changes the Dom/me makes for/because of them, it does wonders for a relationship.
If you happen to be a newbie sometimes it's still nice to see how much your Dom/me does and is willing to do for you as a sub. Many play Dom/mes do see subs as either an easy lay...a target so to speak for their own selfish ends. Not saying good Dom/mes aren't selfish, after all why would they want/need a sub if they weren't in some way. But the key part is that the play dom/mes will break the will and often heart of a submissive. Making someone 'worthless' in their own eyes is a breaking of the human spirit, and I've seen and heard of it happening.
These are the cases, which I believe Ashton pointed out, in which a sub will blame themselves for it not being perfect. Submissive doesn't mean stupid, but so many subs come in expecting that they can not even make suggestions or "stand up" intellectually to their Masters (masters as the case may be) that the first time one does it they instantly expect to be dropped to the side like yesterday's newspaper.
I think in the relationship realm it's a give and take. The Dom/me gives the submissive everything they need in order to 1. remain as a submissive 2. desire to be a submissive 3. wish to earn their place as that Dom/me's sub. While in direct relation to that a submissive gives their Dom/me 1. servitude 2.loyalty (a sub is a friend/listener/wall to bounce things off of) 3. companionship. My Sir smiles in a way...I've never seen many smile when He reaches down His hand to stroke me. I could have been quiet for minutes (hours is stretching it for me) but the fact that He knows I'm there and I will be there, is a release for Him.
To me D/s and BDSM isn't just about how well He hits me or how many times I get off from spanking or how many times Sir gets head/orgasms or whatever He demands. It's about trust...when you know someone well enough, trust them enough, and love them in the way that often we come to love our Dom/mes then that relationship is perfect.

[Logic1]

Lol - I agree in everything except one thing Logic1 - there IS a perfect car - a 1927 Bugatti roadster lmao

Lol
You know I kinda agree cause that is one beautiful car but that is not the same as perfect. If you wanna show off in the city sure but if you wanna haul some stuff in it or have a car that you can rely on then that sure isnt the right car ;)

[tessa]

Perfect Dom?? ~laughs and laughs and laughs~

Just couldn't resist.

Perfect anything- bah. The fragility of our soulful humanity is what makes each of us unique and precious.

That and fingerprints...

:wave:

[Ozme52]

I often think new people can get the wrong impression from sites such as this, for the simple reason that some Doms- often the most vocal ones, seem compelled to create an impression of unquestionable perfection.

From memory, it was Isabelle who came up with the line ‘I couldn’t respect a Dom who lacked humility’

Do we need to be perfect? Should we be able to accept criticism and admit that we make mistakes?

Frankly, I see being unable to admit you’re ever wrong, and the inability to accept criticism or be questioned, as character defects that a Dom in particular could do without.


I've been offline for 4 days... if I'm rehashing what others say it's not by intent.

There's a huge difference between someone boasting "unquestionable perfection" and someone who is just "supremely confident." But being able to readily tell the difference between the two can be challenging.

Ultimately, imo, subs want the latter. It makes them feel safe where the former might do just the opposite. Accepting that one can make mistakes and improve is part of it... but, being one of the supremely confident :rolleyes: you'd have to have a pretty convincing arguement that I'm mistaken. I won't just take someone's word for it. ;)

As far as humility is concerned... yes, maybe, if you think a D/s relationship should be sub-centric, but in one that is dom-centric, isn't humility more appropriately within the sub's domain?

Humility is the state of being humble (meriam-webster)
Humble is:

1: not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
2: reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission <a humble apology>
3 a: ranking low in a hierarchy or scale : insignificant, unpretentious b: not costly or luxurious <a humble contraption>

By that definition, you can't be humble and be dominant. Unless you want to use different definitions or pick and choose which parts of the definition you mean.

[Ozme52]

I recently visited a site where a slave girl said in no uncertain terms something to the effect, "I could never respect a Dom that bottomed for someone else." She went on to say that hers is a "real" Dom, all the time.

It is not possible to be dominant at all times. If this "real" Dom lands his little behind in traffic court I don't think he'll be trying to top the judge. Even "the most powerful person in the world" the President, says "yes dear" and does what his wife asks. No one is a Dom all the time.

If they try to tell you otherwise they're not a real Dom.

I think this mixes apples and oranges as they say. Deferring to someone else under the appropriate circumstances does not imply one is bottoming to them.

I've never kowtowed before a judge... nor have I tried to top one. You state your case and he judges. As far as I'm concerned, he's there to top the cop if the cop is in the wrong... and if I was in the wrong, I just pay my fine. And if we meet outside the courtroom, I talk to him as an equal as I do everyone, sub or dom, lifestyle or vanilla.

I also talk to my own sub as an equal. Just because her role is different than mine doesn't make her some kind of lesser person... (or have I strayed off concept?)

[Ozme52]

Perfection, like normalcy, is an illusion. And one's idea of "perfection" will differ from another. Whose to say someone's "perfect dom" /doesn't/ include traits like humility, sensitivity, or compassion?

It is better to ask 'what would be your idea of a perfect dom'.

I'm right there with you on sensitivity and compassion. And a lot of other "soft" traits not necessarily exhibited online... but not humility, for the reasons I stated above. ;)

[TomOfSweden]

Perfect Dom?? ~laughs and laughs and laughs~

Just couldn't resist.

Perfect anything- bah. The fragility of our soulful humanity is what makes each of us unique and precious.

That and fingerprints...

:wave:

Don't forget toes. We have unique prints on our toes to. They're always distressingly discriminated against in these matters.

[Ozme52]

Human beings are complex creatures. We make mistakes, often inadvertently, and no amount of caution, care or experience can prevent us from doing so. What counts, I believe, is not that we are all imperfect to a certain degree, but that we learn out of our mistakes, as well as the way we deal with them. In that way, a good dom is somebody who learns from his mistakes and who acknowledges them. A good dom is also somebody who knows when to take advice, or fall back on the strengths of the submissive part. This is of course my personal viewpoint, but I don't think that it makes you less dominant to acknowledge a mistake and apologise for it -- it reduces hard feelings, really. I also think it would be silly to not utilise potential where there is potential -- different people are good at different things, and it would be silly to do something you are not good at yourself in order to remain 'dominant'.

Generally, I think it's easy to get a wrong impression when you go online without knowing anything about BDSM and start to read. It's not only flawless dominants who are never un-dominant and who never make any wrong decisions. There are also the flawless subs/slaves with no limits, always compliant and docile, never struggling with real life or the fact that sometimes you are simply not in the mood. If I recall correctly, there was a thread dealing with this subject a while ago...if you judge only from what you read (and of course not ALL of it is described like that) you'll be easily under the impression that in order to be dominant you will have to be always demanding and never be allowed to fail or make a wrong decision, whereas when you are submissive...well, you better be up to it at all times. Personally, I find that sad. It's a diverse lifestyle, and it's diverse people participating in it. There is no one right way -- there is only a way that is right for you and your respective partner. And this way should be okay -- without having to worry that because you do not apply to the role-model you are not really dominant or not really submissive. Anyway, just my two cents :)

Yep. All very well put.

[Ozme52]

What on earth are you all talking about??? My Dom is perfect.......




For me! :p

Yes!! And isn't that the point.

If we were all the same, only a few of the subs would be happy.

If the subs were all the same, only a few of the dom/mes would be happy.

In fact... it's really the pairing of two people that makes for "perfection."

[Ozme52]

Whippett- no car is perfect, if they were they'd have two wheels & handlbars. :rolleyes:

You got that right!!

[Euryleia]

<snip> As far as humility is concerned... yes, maybe, if you think a D/s relationship should be sub-centric, but in one that is dom-centric, isn't humility more appropriately within the sub's domain?

Humility is the state of being humble (meriam-webster)
Humble is:
1: not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
2: reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission <a humble apology>
3 a: ranking low in a hierarchy or scale : insignificant, unpretentious b: not costly or luxurious <a humble contraption>

By that definition, you can't be humble and be dominant. Unless you want to use different definitions or pick and choose which parts of the definition you mean.

I think most of us were using humility as lacking in false pride. There is nothing wrong with having a firm belief in your own skills and abilities. The problem is arrogantly thinking that you know it all and that you have nothing left to learn. Even in a dom-centric relationship: "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." (Proverbs 16:18)

[tessa]

Don't forget toes. We have unique prints on our toes to. They're always distressingly discriminated against in these matters.

This is one of the many reasons that I think Tom is as close to perfect as One can be. He's so hot, especially when he finds a way to fit in obscure, yet highly relevant, facts into a discussion.

But I do have a major crush on him, so I'm totally biased. He could fit in non-obscure facts and I'd still melt into a puddle.

~teenagery-girlie, staring-at-a-rock-star kind of dreamy sigh~ I'd lick him if I could.

[tessa]

I was a bit flippant in my initial response. I apologize for that. All these thought-provoking comments have given me pause to consider this idea of "perfection" a bit more in-depth. Especially this one-


In fact...it's really the pairing of two people that makes for "perfection."

I've been thinking and thinking on this.

Based on personal experience, as well as hearing of the experiences of others, even in this kinky-fied arena, it seems like there is still some need to define and label the heck out of things. And if one doesn't "fit" into a few or more of those already established slots, then they're qualified as being less than respectful of (or serious about) this lifestyle. It's led to a lot of confusion and heartache for this newbie, let me just say.

Don't get me wrong, there are wonderfully accepting people to be known here, who just don't bother with trying to qualify what's "right" or that's there's only a specified way of going about all this learning. Through these lovely souls, I've come to realize that "perfection" is possible, but only within the just-right connection (and even then, it's a tough sell at times). Oz's comment hit home with me because as I try to figure some of this out for myself, I find that there are no resolutes, no certainties. Only by coupling with their "perfect" mate (which isn't necessarily just one person in the course of a lifetime), can one find out what's true for them. And that truth may fit no one else's truth.

And you know what? That is very okay.

The perfect Dominant, the perfect submissive, the perfect D/s relationship- can it be?? I think the answer is yes, but I qualify that 'yes' with the following-

Each relationship is made unique and precious by the hearts, souls and minds involved. Therein lies the perfection. And all of what that relationship develops into has worth, whether it's agreed with or not.


There is nothing wrong with having a firm belief in your own skills and abilities. The problem is arrogantly thinking that you know it all and that you have nothing left to learn.

Exactly that.

Thank you all for what you have to contribute here. Every word matters.

tessa :wave:

[blueberry]

we all make mistakes... but everyone should always work on improving themselves, especially the art of understanding and forgiving
that goes for all areas of life

just my2cents

[Guest 092208]

Every Master was first a Disaster

This is one of my favorite saying and I think it is very true, it was and still is for me. I am a disaster but thats OK I think because I am learning to Master.

I think many have posted some good replies to Tojo with regard to Masters or Mistresses or Dom/Dommes not being perfect, being overally arrogant rather than just self-confident all this is true, but it can also be true for submissives and others.

What I think is perhaps not discussed so much is how to deal with the disaster on both sides of the equation when they occur, secondly I feel to often posted views reflect a unreal utopian political correctness which causes valid discussion and views from being explored of course you can list the ideal characteristics of a Dom or a sub but so what, most people know what they should be in every area of their lives but they are not.

Why shouldn't a person Dom be arrogant? Wouldn't this be better than some other quality "racist" "stupid" "psychopath"

Of course I would avoid arrogant stupid racist psychopathic Doms if your new to BDSM at least for a week or two. LOL

I am rambling (I do that alot) No Doms are not perfect they like everyone else have good traits and bad, how do you develop or assist someone in developing their good traits?

I would love to find a Dom development seminar or book which practically assisted.