Polyamorous or just not sure?

[J-Go]

Now I’m going to do what I don’t often do on this forum and express an opinion. So let me disclaim from the start this MY opinion from MY viewpoint on life an in no way reflects how I think others should run their lives. So feel free to disagree I will not be offended.
I have heard much discussion about Polyamorous relationships lately. Now I’m kind of a literal person so when I heard the term I thought “hmm interesting being in love with more that one person” then I of course as we often do, I looked to my own life experience and said to myself “wow there’s a train wreck just waitin to come off the track.”
This of course has been tumbling around in my head as these things tend to do. Can a person really be poly-amorous? I think yes it’s quite possible to love more than one person…even in a romantic way. Are the majority of claimed “poly” people truly in love, I think probably not. They like “the love” or the act thereof but I wonder if they just haven’t found what they are looking for yet.
As for me I think I can safely say I'm not interested in sharing what my pet and I have with anyone. We came into the lifestyle together so this is really our special thing. And even in times of doubt or struggle I can safely say I’m singularly amorous.

[gemmy]

A good thread and one that's bound to piss off many with individual thoughts, feelings and opinions - good on you Luv! Nothing like a great debate *giggles*

I've expressed my opinion on this topic and on this board more than a few times and absolutely do not believe in it (Poly).

I don't think it's realistic to even try to 'love' more than one person at a time and think you are doing them any justice by sharing yourself with more than one - how could that possibly be honest or fair to the many who have to split that up? And what happens when one is 'loved' more times in a week than the other?

Oh yes, we (humans) are such a selfless race that those sharing in the love of One just go along in a Pollyanna view "Oh, it's ok if susie has had Master three times this week and i've only had him once. It makes Master happy and that's all that matters." (gags wretchedly).

And then there's the argument - but we all are in love with each other so it works. I've watched people on this board post that very argument and always in a Past Tense. So really? does it work? I imagine it might in the beginning, such a great novelty - 0o0o0o so exciting and thrilling - perfection! Combined households, incomes, chores - makes all of life easier, yes? Sure, in the beginning but funny how you never read about how any of these 'families' last.

People, by nature, sub or not want their own unique happiness and don't want to have to share that with anyone I think. I also think that people deserve that kind of solely devoted love that is theirs and theirs only.

IMO, and only my opinion (I don't dislike people who are Poly), I see it as just being greedy and way to not have to commit to any one person, continually hedging their bets for the next latest and greatest 'piece' to come along.

Cool if you are Poly and see that it works for you, it's just entirely not for me. I want that One special connection that's just for me and me alone :)

So who knows, maybe that makes me the greedy one ;)

[Chuckdom19]

Sorry to disagree. I am poly; I am deeply in love with my vanilla spouse, who is aware of our situation. She knows and loves my subbie, who feels the same about her. I am deeply in love with my subbie, who is a totally different person from my spouse.

Re: loving more than one person. A favorite author says, "I think it is possible for a person to love all the majority of good and caring people (who walk the earth)." I have loved many thousands of people, employees, co-workers, clients, customers. There are 'degrees' to love, if you will; some deeper, some more shallow. But the inner circle, my immediate family, spouse and sub... well, that love is equal and as rich as can be.

[DowntownAmber]

Hmmm... *pulls up the comfy recliner and curls up for a good think*

There is no simple way to answer this one. In my little slice of time as a thinkng and loving member of the human race, I have loved a small number of times. "In love?" That's an even smaller number. Love overlaps easily for me, however. I find affection for people in places and for reasons that confuse other people and partners. I enjoy finding what it is in all sorts of people that is worthy of being loved. I don't believe that by giving love I take it away from anyone else, as I do not believe we have a finite amount of it to offer by any means.

"In love," on the other hand... Being in love, to me, is a very singular devotion. It is this way because to fall in love for me is to want to give my life to my partner and that I only have one of. I cannot, in both a vanilla and in a BDSM sense, serve more than a single Master. How could I? If the time were to come when both called me to come to them, when both asked of me to be of service, I could only go to one and that one would be the one that I serve in the depths of my being. I can understand and entertain poly, and could even make it through a life practicing it, I suppose, assuming that the depth of the truth would never be probled far enough to reveal that only one or neither of my loves were the stuff of my ultimate affection.

I believe in the one.

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

In my early days of being a submissive I found myself with a Master who had a stable of subs. This was a strictly online relationship between U/us, but even though I wasn't with Him IRL it still bothered me that He was with all these other subs. W/we were together on Yahoo chat and often when I would come online I would do a "goto" when I saw His name on messenger. He would often be in a private room, but I could still get in, unless it was an invite only room. Of course, when I did the "goto" I had no idea if He was in a public or private room and I often entered a private room where He was with one of His other subs. It felt like walking into your bedroom and finding your husband in bed with another woman. I did not like this feeling at all.

I had initially gone along with the whole poly thing because I thought I could handle it. I had left an abusive marriage where I had spent the vast majority of the ten years of my marriage alone and lonely, so I wanted to be open to new experiences and kick up my heels a bit. And this was safer than bar hopping and picking up strangers. Going into the BDSM chat rooms was a thrill for me at the time. And so at first being with a Master who had a stable was a little bit of a thrill. But it quickly wore off. This was not how I wanted to be and I knew that when I found a Master IRL I was definitely not going to be in a poly relationship. I wanted my One and Only and I knew that I wasn't going to get it from this person.

I will freely admit that I can be possessive and jealous and want my Master to focus solely on me. And I am not ashamed to say that. I am not selfless and think only of what He wants and needs. If He wants and needs a stable, well, He won't have me as one of the fillies. If He cannot be satisified with me as His only sub, then He is not the Master for me. Others can be poly and I won't come down on them. That is what they want. But it isn't what I want. I want my One and Only.

[Ozme52]

Ahhhhh semantics.

So hard to gainsay any of the above thoughts, and isn't that the point. Each must individually pursue life and love in a manner that makes one happy.

I only hearken to the thought that ones love for ones first child is not diminished by the love of ones second and subsequent children. You many even love them for different reasons but they are all beloved.

So why not open yourself to love from any, from every quarter... and why not offer it as well.

I think about how our society preaches that there is "one true love"... and if you have/had that and meet someone who captures your heart... does that mean the first love wasn't or is no longer a true love?

That, too me, seems cruel.

The above remark is not a commentary on relationships and loves that fail to prosper for other reasons... but if love is not truly an endless resource, something that can be shared with many, then what if you have not enough love in your heart for even the one?

Then again... maybe the tinman was lucky.

[thepast]

I think it comes down to the fact that people define love differently, no? The term, polyamorous, whose roots are pretty clear, has been used to describe something far different then its simplisticly complex definition.

Poly folks don't necessarily have the same relationship with each member of the poly family. For instance, it might be a couple who has a "third" for play only, or a Dominant with no primary submissive, but 2 submissives who have different purposes & functions in the household.

The way that Poly WORKS is to make sure of the following:
1.) COMMUNICATION is working. What kills Poly is the same thing that kills everything else: a lack of open & honest communication
2.) Clear definitions of roles. What kind of poly relationship are you having? Are you a couple who is looking for some sexual spice? Are you a Dom who enjoys having mulitiple submissives for multiple functions? Are you two couples who enjoy eachother's different strengths? Everyone in the relationship has to be on the same sheet of paper. Poly only works if everyone feels safe & secure in their purpose & role.

Beyond that...

Love is relative, as I said, to different people. Have I loved more then one person in my life? Sure, but not necessarily the same sort of love. My love for T is very different then my love of a Poly play partner (third), or a former lover. Does that mean that a third doesn't feel a part of the poly dynamic? No, of course not... but the TYPE & KIND of love of the third is just different.

I am sure there are people who would say "you can have but one true love." Ok, but how should I know exactly what that is? How can I know that there is ONLY one? Or that I HAVE the right one (I do, but hey, I am super lucky & special)? Is there some instructional guide? A DVD? A course? I certainly haven't ever seen one. So until I do, I am going with the statement of, "you can love more then one, differently."

Again, each to their own... but for poly, you can DEFINITELY have a situation where there is mutual love--just at a different level & a different variety--between all the partners.

Ok, think I babbled enough...

[Arria]

I think it´s cultural teaching.
The ancient Greeks accepted homosexuality (between men, I don´t know about the women) as a fact of daily life.

Kings had harems. I doubt they only loved / felt great affection for only their queen / main wife.

There were tribes of natives, e. g. American natives, where a man could marry more than one woman. This was accepted there, too.

In the Muslim world or with the Mormons, a man is allowed to marry more than one woman.

(I cannot help but wonder why there is no model of a one-woman-several-men marriage anywhere, but nevermind.)

I wish to point out that if, once you are in love, you were not attracted to anyone else anymore, there would be far less marital trouble and divorces.

So I think the one-on-one model is cultural, and must not be seen as "the only normal/right thing".

Nevertheless, I am - in a relationship with a man - a jealous bitch and would not want him to have several subs or girlfriends.
However, knowing people are no saints (and having had a strong attraction to someone else earlier in life in my only other serious relationship with a man before my current one, though I had felt 100 % in love and therefore 100 % safe from temptation), I told him that if he ever felt the need to stick his cock elsewhere for a night, I would not want to know and expect him to go about it in a way that would make it unlikely that I found out.
I would feel it as "broken trust" and don´t think I could handle it if I knew.
No, I would not hate him for having fancied another girl, I do know that can happen, and it does not mean you are not good enough anymore or boring to him - but ever after I would wonder if he really was at home, really on a business trip, really wherever he said - and not with some other chick? I cannot live with broken trust.
But I´d rather have him having a one-night-thingie than have him sit at home and radiating he would rather be elsewhere - I am too proud for that.

During my teenage years, I had one relationship with a lady. She is still my favourite lady. We are both bi (half bi; we both like the upper half of women and don´t care overmuch for the lower). With her, I did not care if she had a man for a night, or some other girl. I did not feel hurt, it did not make me feel I had been cheated on, or made me want to sleep with someone else too to equal the balance.
Those casual things had nothing to do with us.

This is also why I believe it is just a matter of cultural imprinting. No one taught me how to lead a relationship with a woman. No one taught me if a woman I was with had a fling with someone else it was "evil" and "cheating" or "it is a sign I am not good enough". We were always open about it. The only point was that none of us started a relationship / committed herself to somebody else - in this we were exclusive.

Though I am only upper-half bi, I replied to my hubby´s question to tell him freely and uninhibited what would be the ideal relationship for me, that the ideal for me would be to be living with him and her in a house so I could have them both anytime (yes, she is still in my heart, yes, it is possible to love more than one person, and no, hubby does not mind that. He would mind it if it was another man, though).
He was stunned (apparently he expected to hear something else).
He even was allowed to kiss her when we were all out together, and I did not mind.
With any other bitch, I would have ripped his head off *g*.

But - the lady in question wants to be the alpha bitch in a relationship with a man. So do I. Thus my dream arrangement can´t come true.

As for the polyamorous "trend" that came up in my area lately, particularly in the BDSM scene: I do not think we are ready for that for the above-stated cultural reasons.

It might help if I had seen one single example of such a relationship work well without any of the partners feeling they did not get enough... but that has not happened yet.

Apart from that: I think everybody should seek happiness in a way that suits him best. Other people´s love lives are their concern and decision, not mine.

Kind regards
Arria

[Arria]

As to what Ozme said:
"I think about how our society preaches that there is "one true love"... and if you have/had that and meet someone who captures your heart... does that mean the first love wasn't or is no longer a true love?"

I think that is an excellent point, and is also what causes the most heartache.

[gemmy]

"...It might help if I had seen one single example of such a relationship work well without any of the partners feeling they did not get enough... but that has not happened yet...."

My observation of such has been a Dominant who has many subs (either gender) - so all cool for the Man/Woman who gets more than their fair share of many but where's the fair for the one's who get used but once in awhile here and there? How can that possibly be construed as 'love'? How can you think you're compassionate by holding that person back from having a whole, fully satisfying relationship? They may think that what you are doing to them is what they want, but I imagine they will soon realize they are only being taken advantage of and want something that is for them only.

(Disclaimer: this is all my opinion and it assumes for the purposes of this thread that to be a true Poly, you live in a Poly family and lifestyle, not just someone with many bed partners. Somone who is married and has an on-line sub is not, imo a Poly in anyway.)

Again, to me it just screams Greed/Arrogance/Ignorance for anyone but themselves. It isn't love by any definition to me and quite the opposite, I see it as taking advantage of a submissive's nature to please - just because you fuck someone, doesn't mean you are loving them. Just because they agree to it (thinking all the while, he'll pick me in the end) doesn't mean they like it either.

Yes, I love many people in many different ways, but when in love (it has happened once to me in the past), that's a whole other kind of love.

[J-Go]

I think it´s cultural teaching.
The ancient Greeks accepted homosexuality (between men, I don´t know about the women) as a fact of daily life.

Kings had harems. I doubt they only loved / felt great affection for only their queen / main wife.

There were tribes of natives, e. g. American natives, where a man could marry more than one woman. This was accepted there, too.

In the Muslim world or with the Mormons, a man is allowed to marry more than one woman.

(I cannot help but wonder why there is no model of a one-woman-several-men marriage anywhere, but nevermind.)


Actually it's called Polyandry, and there have beed cultures (Tibet and Mongolia to name a couple) in which a woman would take on more than one husband. Generally a woman married sibling brothers in a family and would serve all males in the family as if they were her husband. Not really a great deal for the woman, for the most part she simply filled the role as slave and sexual release to the family. Not much amorous about that!

Anyway I think you make a good point, it is cultural which really translates to what we are used to. Again it comes down to choice...what drives your moral compus. I can be a jealous ass, I don't really ponder where that comes from I just know it when I feel it. I don't really care for the feeling so try, best I can to stay away from situations that would invoke that feeling. The thought of my love giving what she has granted me to another would be more pain than I could take.

[J-Go]

I think it´s cultural teaching.
The ancient Greeks accepted homosexuality (between men, I don´t know about the women) as a fact of daily life.

Kings had harems. I doubt they only loved / felt great affection for only their queen / main wife.

There were tribes of natives, e. g. American natives, where a man could marry more than one woman. This was accepted there, too.

In the Muslim world or with the Mormons, a man is allowed to marry more than one woman.

(I cannot help but wonder why there is no model of a one-woman-several-men marriage anywhere, but nevermind.)


Actually it's called Polyandry, and there have been cultures (Tibet and Mongolia to name a couple) in which a woman would take on more than one husband. Generally a woman married sibling brothers in a family and would serve all males in the family as if they were her husband. Not really a great deal for the woman, for the most part she simply filled the role as slave and sexual release to the family. Not much amorous about that!

Anyway I think you make a good point, it is cultural which really translates to what we are used to. Again it comes down to choice...what drives your moral compus. I can be a jealous ass, I don't really ponder where that comes from I just know it when I feel it. I don't really care for the feeling so try, best I can to stay away from situations that would invoke that feeling. The thought of my love giving what she has granted me to another would be more pain than I could take.

[denuseri]

well i dont know, my first real relationship was with a bueatiful woman and her husband I loved and do still love both of them very very much, allthough she died several years ago i still have very strong feelings for her, i morned her death with him with every bit of grief that one would expect if they lost thier true love, i still wish she was here with us now ( and i know she watches over us) and if it was in my power she would be here in person, my love for her and him was no less because it was shared, in all i was and am grateful that they chose me to share with them this thing called love

[claire]

I am also the jealous type so a poly relationship would never be for me (although I am involved with a married man and I have always said I would never do that either, so...). For the people who want it, & like it - I have no problem with a poly household, even if those households don't endure. How many marriages last these days? Add in to that the fact that none of us are static beings, as we grow, we change and so do our needs. So for some, poly may be perfect at a certain time in their life and no longer work at other times.

I admit that I also wonder about the love in those relationships. There are many people that I love, but as gem says only one I have been "in love" with. I can't imagine being able to interact with more than one person at a time at that intensity and depth. Maybe it is because I am very introverted, so I tend to have relationships/friendships with just a few people. It is not that I don't like others or am a snob, but I can only emotionally handle the depth of relationship that I feel with a few people at a time. Maybe extroverts who are energized by interactions with many people have an easier time being poly, because they don't interact in such depth. This is not meant to belittle of demean their relationships - they are just different and have different needs and sources of satisfaction.

The poly households I have observed seem more like families than spouses. (Now I have to admit that I have never personally known anyone in a poly relationship so my observations may not be based in any reality.) Yes, family members love one another, but the love I hold for a sister, or brother, is not the same as the love I hold for a spouse. Again, not better or worse, just different. However, for myself and my partner, I want the love that exists between spouses.

[DowntownAmber]

As to what Ozme said:
"I think about how our society preaches that there is "one true love"... and if you have/had that and meet someone who captures your heart... does that mean the first love wasn't or is no longer a true love?"

I think that is an excellent point, and is also what causes the most heartache.

I'm going to agree with both Oz and Arria here. I can't tell you all the number of fights I've started based off the fact that I will honestly admit to loving and still having feelings for a past partner to my current lover. I consider the word "love" to be a feeling whose scope cannot be diminished by the short amount of time in a life, and whose infinite nature cannot be exhausted by volume.

However, a feeling and the commitment to sharing it are two different things, and it's the commitment part that is finite and therefore tricky to keep a handle on. It's also the actions as opposed to the intentions that I see causing a split in this thread, and where the poly and the singularly devoted folks start to break ranks. Love is infinite, time just ain't.

Oz is right: having one child after another doesn't mean you love the second or third one any less and it doesn't mean that love is taken from the first either. However, time gets divided, so do resources. Eventually there will come a point where the kids cannot be taken care of or loved because there just isn't time or money or whatever in the day to do so. At that point you can feel all the damn love you want for the kids, but are they feeling it from you??

When I fall in love, personally I become pretty damn fixated on the moment to moment happiness and pleasure of the person I'm with. I pay a LOT of attention, I give a lot of myself. I simply don't have the time or frankly the strength to give that to anyone else save in small doses of affection here and there. I can feel a lot of love, sure, but I also feel like I can only express it in a way that seems worthy of the emotion of being "in love" to one partner at a time. This doesn't mean I follow J around 24/7 waiting for the opportunity to be of service to him, it simply means when he wants me I need to feel, for myself as much as him, that I can drop anything and everything and be by his side.

[denuseri]

well i wouldnt say for one second that the love i have for my owner and his first wife is lacking in any "depth" , nor could you if you had walked in my shoes

belittle or demean it all you want, you cant understand it if you dont have it

love is clear, and pure, love can be majical, love conquers more than many think possible, love is as dificult to find for some as to hold the wind in ones hands,
but perhaps the poem bellow says it all

peace out,...... i hope everyone can one day have the love they yearn for it is every bit worth the effort

[Ozme52]

well i wouldnt say for one second that the love i have for my owner and his first wife is lacking in any "depth" , nor could you if you had walked in my shoes

belittle or demean it all you want, you cant understand it if you dont have it

love is clear, and pure, love can be majical, love conquers more than many think possible, love is as dificult to find for some as to hold the wind in ones hands,
but perhaps the poem bellow says it all

peace out,...... i hope everyone can one day have the love they yearn for it is every bit worth the effort


I don't think I saw anyone doing that. Just each discussing their own perspective as it applies to their own situation.

[TomOfSweden]

I would have been polyamorous if I could handle the stress. But I can't. I don't think monogamy is somehow a better form of relationship in any way. Rather the opposite. It's just what suits me and my temperament.

All power to those who can find the time and energy. I've got too many hobbies... like writing.

[denuseri]

well i am sorry claire if i took un due offence, it just seemed like you were saying extroverted people dont feel as deply as others which isnt true in my book,,,

[Chuckdom19]

it just seemed like you were saying extroverted people dont feel as deply as others which isnt true in my book,,,

Darn right. We extroverts are just way better at hiding those feelings, to maintain the relationship with everyone else.

[claire]

well i am sorry claire if i took un due offence, it just seemed like you were saying extroverted people dont feel as deply as others which isnt true in my book,,,

I am sorry it came off that way. I was afraid it might. I obviously don't know how to explain it very well. You are correct, of course extroverts feelings are as deep and as real as an introverts. It is just that when introverts interact with other people they tend to focus on a few things and want to know details and as much as possible and those interactions consume their energy. When extroverts interact they tend to go for breath and they are energized by their interactions. Of course neither is completely true to the exclusion of the other. But it is why extroverts enjoy parties and introverts are wall flowers. We just see and interact with people differently. I thought that perhaps that would give extroverts the advantage in a poly relationship as they can field and interact with more people at once.

I just reread my original post. I think the difference I see is between what deuseri had with a couple and poly households that are more like communal living. I would think that the love between a sub and married Doms would be like the love a child has for their parents. Again I don't mean to offend by saying your love was a childish love. I am just trying to put it into relationship terms I can understand.

[Clevernick]

I think whether you feel positively towards the idea of Polyamory in your own life, or not, is just fine. It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to criticize others' lifestyles, though, and apply their personal morality to others.

It's precisely that type of thinking, that disapproving of others' mutually-consenting sexuality, that leads bdsm people to need to be anonymous on forums like this. And yet even some of us are doing it! Makes me very sad.

[Kuskovian]

Love is love. Some try to define it. Others allow it to retain it's mystic. Eaither way it is what it is, no more no less. When I love it is in total, they have my all, I don't hold back. This does not mean that I am incapable of loving another just as much.

A physical relationship allways complicates things, but "love" transends the purely physical, it is an exchange of the soul.

However I think this debate isn't really about love as much as it is about issues of property, ownership and jealousy.

For it is these feelings involving jealousy in paticular that get in the way of love. Especially important; yet not limited, to polyamorus relationships.

Many make the mistake of thinking it is thier love for an individual that makes them jealous of anothers affection for thier beloved.

This is a classic mistake and leads many relationships into a downward spiral.

It is in fact the jealous persons own greed to control the object of thier affections desires that is the root of this problem. Weather it is a jealousy of: ones profession, or another lover, or even a childs attentions, makes no difference, except to the preceptions of what the individual is willing to accept in each circumstance.

This is especially true in the relationship dynamics that take place between dominants and submissives.

[Dea Menrfa]

Excellent post... I agree whole heartedly.


Hmmm... *pulls up the comfy recliner and curls up for a good think*

There is no simple way to answer this one. In my little slice of time as a thinkng and loving member of the human race, I have loved a small number of times. "In love?" That's an even smaller number. Love overlaps easily for me, however. I find affection for people in places and for reasons that confuse other people and partners. I enjoy finding what it is in all sorts of people that is worthy of being loved. I don't believe that by giving love I take it away from anyone else, as I do not believe we have a finite amount of it to offer by any means.

"In love," on the other hand... Being in love, to me, is a very singular devotion. It is this way because to fall in love for me is to want to give my life to my partner and that I only have one of. I cannot, in both a vanilla and in a BDSM sense, serve more than a single Master. How could I? If the time were to come when both called me to come to them, when both asked of me to be of service, I could only go to one and that one would be the one that I serve in the depths of my being. I can understand and entertain poly, and could even make it through a life practicing it, I suppose, assuming that the depth of the truth would never be probled far enough to reveal that only one or neither of my loves were the stuff of my ultimate affection.

I believe in the one.

[alpha_Straye]

...
Oz is right: having one child after another doesn't mean you love the second or third one any less and it doesn't mean that love is taken from the first either. However, time gets divided, so do resources. Eventually there will come a point where the kids cannot be taken care of or loved because there just isn't time or money or whatever in the day to do so. At that point you can feel all the damn love you want for the kids, but are they feeling it from you??

Thats a very interesting analogy. Do families with many children have children who feel unloved and uncared for? i wouldnt know from experience but from hearsay ive usually been given the impression that large families often feel very loved.. even if their time one on one with one person in the family is less than only child families. From what little ive seen, the older children help take care of the younger children and they all go play together etc. i think it becomes a family about the all of them rather than a family all about getting one parents affection as if that were the only source. Whereas an only child is often off alone and lonely and therefore truely needs their parents time and attention alot more.

So to follow the analogy along, from the point of veiw of an only child, thinking they will get only less, dividing what little they get into ever smaller piles, a large family sounds like a bum deal. And yet ive seen many people from large families look quietly pitying at someone when they discover they were an only child.

hmm... well, food for thought. *smile*

[Missi]

Excuse me if this sounds rude- because I'm not trying to be. Nothing is wrong with the way people want to live their lives- if they both agree to it. But here is my personal opinion.

I think true, undying love, means loving only that one person. . . I think it's impossible to truly be in love with two people at a time. You can appreciate and like characteristics of each- but I think REAL TRUE BLUE love, is one person.

That's just me though.

[DowntownAmber]

Thats a very interesting analogy. Do families with many children have children who feel unloved and uncared for? i wouldnt know from experience but from hearsay ive usually been given the impression that large families often feel very loved.. even if their time one on one with one person in the family is less than only child families. From what little ive seen, the older children help take care of the younger children and they all go play together etc. i think it becomes a family about the all of them rather than a family all about getting one parents affection as if that were the only source. Whereas an only child is often off alone and lonely and therefore truely needs their parents time and attention alot more.

So to follow the analogy along, from the point of veiw of an only child, thinking they will get only less, dividing what little they get into ever smaller piles, a large family sounds like a bum deal. And yet ive seen many people from large families look quietly pitying at someone when they discover they were an only child.

hmm... well, food for thought. *smile*

The point is not that a small family can provide more love than a large (or that a monagamous relationship provides more focus and attention than a poly), simply that we all need to find a size and number that is manageable to us and fair to the others involved. For some folks, one child is too much because the parent has a career and other concerns etc. and their priorities are other than the care of that single entity. Hell, for some people a friggin' parakeet is too much to cope with! ;) Same situation with romantic relationships - there are certainly enough examples of singularly paired couples that break up because one or the other insn't invested deeply enough. In the case of large families or poly relationships, it's the same deal - if you can deal with the situation without anyone feeling slighted, super. However, if your kids are going hungry and haven't seen you for days; or your third significant other hasn't managed to get you in bed all month because Number Two blows you first and then you fall asleep, well, there might be an issue... :rollseyes:

The number is not the point, the point is that we simply need to realize how much we all can comfortably bite off and chew.

[Borgs_slave]

It is also a myth that all people in a poly family interact sexually with each other. Poly doesn't mean threesomes, it means a group of people that work together as a unit or family. Love isn't required for a monogamous D/s relationship and is not required for everyone in a poly family. I served a dominant couple for many years and was only property of the male dominant and only served him sexually. I didn't have sex or think about having it with the others. That is not what I was expected to do. That is why people communicate expectations before getting involved.

People often make sweeping generalizations they can't prove when they don't understand something. You should check out www.lovingmore.com and gain some insight before making judgments that you have not basis or facts of. Yes absolutes and one true wayism ways of thinking usually do piss me off. Poly isn't everyone running around being sexual with everyone else in the family. It isn't threesomes and sharing. it is a family unit that sets their own standards for what it is that is expected by all family members involved.

Poly isn't for everyone and those that don't understand shouldn't make falsehoods about those that live just because they really don't understand it. There are more myths about poly than the actual truth. Everyone has the ability to make their own choice about how they want to live their lives.

[Borgs_slave]

I think whether you feel positively towards the idea of Polyamory in your own life, or not, is just fine. It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to criticize others' lifestyles, though, and apply their personal morality to others.

It's precisely that type of thinking, that disapproving of others' mutually-consenting sexuality, that leads bdsm people to need to be anonymous on forums like this. And yet even some of us are doing it! Makes me very sad.


I agree.

[claire]

It is also a myth that all people in a poly family interact sexually with each other. Poly doesn't mean threesomes, it means a group of people that work together as a unit or family. Love isn't required for a monogamous D/s relationship and is not required for everyone in a poly family. I served a dominant couple for many years and was only property of the male dominant and only served him sexually. I didn't have sex or think about having it with the others. That is not what I was expected to do. That is why people communicate expectations before getting involved.

.... Poly isn't everyone running around being sexual with everyone else in the family. It isn't threesomes and sharing. it is a family unit that sets their own standards for what it is that is expected by all family members involved.


Thank-you this was my impression of poly households. I was just trying to explain why for me it would not work. And again I apologize to anyone who I offended or whose feelings I hurt. I was trying not to be judgemental. The only person who can judge these things is the individual for themself.

[gemmy]

The whole board is about judgements, thoughts and personal opinions, it's why we're here.

We don't all have to agree, all we can do is give our own perspective on a given topic. Just because I believe and think one way doesn't make it written in stone, just makes it mine personally.

We all try not to judge, but personally we all know what we could or couldn't live with and as far as I can tell that's all that any of us have expressed here - our own personal views of something. Getting pissed off and defensive at not everyone agreeing one way or the other is a waste of time. If it's going to upset you, then don't participate ;)

Also, as these opinions and thoughts are expressed we sometimes get to learn more about things that we may have closed our minds to or we may still keep our current thought and learn nothing but that doesn't devalue the exchange.

[TomOfSweden]

There is one little thing I've noticed among younger poly's I know. And that's quite a few. Love is the key. What is love, and how is it expressed? We can't really say can we? We can only say indirectly. So we have to nail that one down first... which means skills in expressing one self.... and empathy ... understanding each other... and so on. It needs extremely mature and intelligent people. I'm not saying it can't work anyway just out of dumb luck. I suspect that I really only notice the poly relationships that don't work since those who do just seem like people being very good friends. But the jealousy and drama is super easy to pick up on at a party. ...and that's pretty much my perception of poly for young people. It's like an endless episode of your favourite soap opera. Drama, drama, drama. ....but maybe that is what they want :)

I have an example of a very well functioning poly situation close to home so I know very well how well it can work when it does. It's also fascinating to see when any of them date somebody who say they understand and are down with it... when they aren't. How they try so extremely hard to push on all the jealousy buttons and nothing works.

Some people do define love in terms how far others would go for them. The jealousy factor. People like that are obviously not poly material.

[J-Go]

My grandmother used to say "Don't be so open minded your empty headed" It took me a long time to really understand what that meant. As I got older I understood that the meaning was “know your boundaries.” This has been a fascinating discussion on boundaries, some people have the ability to extend to multiple simultaneous relationships some don’t. From these posts it’s obvious that not every one sees poly the same way, I guess it would be a damn short boring thread if we did.
So here is an opinion to ponder. Polyamorous is indeed a life style however there is also polyamorous action that has nothing to do with being in a poly lifestyle.
It’s very common to be in a committed singular relationship and engage in polyamorous activity. For example, I meet a friend…an old girlfriend for sake of argument, we have a few beers and kiss passionately before saying good night…”great to see you again, bye” no sex. I have just engaged in an amorous activity with another i.e. I have given amour to another, I have engaged in an activity that shows affection beyond a hand shake shall we say. OK all, morally where am I? Did I violate my committed relationship with a kiss? Or is it only a violation if it’s kept a secret? Or is it a violation if the action hurts the one I’m committed to?
Alright all, bring on the opinions!

[tessa]

I had a lot typed out on this, but nah. I'll just say this-

If polyamory is the thing for you, then do it. Know yourself well enough to understand what it is you desire in a relationship, find a like-minded soul (or souls in this case) and do it all over the place. Live your life and be happy in it.

Just don't expect and/or demand that others be happy with you in the living of it. "Live and let live", while a grand idea, just isn't realistic. And unless you live totally isolated from public view and opinion, what you should expect are judgements, differing opinions and disapproval. That's what people do when they don't understand something. And forget trying to "make them understand" any of it. They don't want to.

That's life. Have fun with it.
:wave:

[claire]

J-Go, Sir, as I was telling Amber yesterday, with that AV, I am not going to object to anything you do! I am just going to answer yes Sir, no Sir and do my best never to displease you. :pray:

[gemmy]

My grandmother used to say "Don't be so open minded your empty headed" It took me a long time to really understand what that meant. As I got older I understood that the meaning was “know your boundaries.” This has been a fascinating discussion on boundaries, some people have the ability to extend to multiple simultaneous relationships some don’t. From these posts it’s obvious that not every one sees poly the same way, I guess it would be a damn short boring thread if we did.
So here is an opinion to ponder. Polyamorous is indeed a life style however there is also polyamorous action that has nothing to do with being in a poly lifestyle.
It’s very common to be in a committed singular relationship and engage in polyamorous activity. For example, I meet a friend…an old girlfriend for sake of argument, we have a few beers and kiss passionately before saying good night…”great to see you again, bye” no sex. I have just engaged in an amorous activity with another i.e. I have given amour to another, I have engaged in an activity that shows affection beyond a hand shake shall we say. OK all, morally where am I? Did I violate my committed relationship with a kiss? Or is it only a violation if it’s kept a secret? Or is it a violation if the action hurts the one I’m committed to?
Alright all, bring on the opinions!

That's Brilliant!!! I love it :D

My opinion is you violated your relationship simply on loyalty. You commit to a monogamous relationship, that's it - you don't get to evaluate single cases after the fact. You either are 100% committed or you aren't. As you didn't have prior consent, you are being disloyal. If she agrees after the fact when you tell her that it's ok, then you got lucky - if she doesn't, then you've hurt her simply by being unfaithful and dishonest with the loyalty you have previously setup (assuming your committed relationship requires loyalty, which most do).

Personally, if agreed on a committed relationship I always stipulate that if my significant other feels the need to stray (yes, that includes a kiss that isn't a friendly 'cheek' kind of kiss), they have two choices; discuss it with me Before you act on it or leave me. Very cut and dried, no grey areas.

I've found myself in the situation to have my head turned by another while still married and although my marriage had been in the toilet for over three years, I still wouldn't hurt him by cheating. I chose to finally leave seeing that as the final sign that I had nothing left invested in my marriage.

[gemmy]

p.s. passionate kissing is sex ;) - even a look can be sex imo

[gemmy]

J-Go, Sir, as I was telling Amber yesterday, with that AV, I am not going to object to anything you do! I am just going to answer yes Sir, no Sir and do my best never to displease you. :pray:

lol claire - Hot is it not? *drools* - He's actually quite Hot and very Domly in person also :cool: hehe

[J-Go]

J-Go, Sir, as I was telling Amber yesterday, with that AV, I am not going to object to anything you do! I am just going to answer yes Sir, no Sir and do my best never to displease you. :pray:

Awww shucks!

[claire]

Awww shucks!

Damn! That "Awww shucks", just burst my fantasy bubble. How can I be afraid of someone who says that! The fantasy response was more on the order of "and well you should". You know, something to keep me in my place and maintain the aura of power and authority.

[J-Go]

yes but awww shucks is quite non-amorous don't you agree? Now back to your knees ! And get that head down!

[DowntownAmber]

Damn! That "Awww shucks", just burst my fantasy bubble. How can I be afraid of someone who says that! The fantasy response was more on the order of "and well you should". You know, something to keep me in my place and maintain the aura of power and authority.

I have heard that very same, "awww, shucks," in a particular tone or coupled with a subtle raise of an eyebrow... Methinks it's sometimes less the words you use and moreso how you use them... Mmmmm. ;)

Wait, is this turning into a poly exchange??

[gemmy]

I have heard that very same, "awww, shucks," in a particular tone or coupled with a subtle raise of an eyebrow... Methinks it's sometimes less the words you use and moreso how you use them... Mmmmm. ;)

Wait, is this turning into a poly exchange??

LMAO - too funny

*puts on her best Domme voice (stifling giggles)*

Now bloody get back on topic and get serious already!! ;)

And yes, Amber, I do believe sometimes words matter not but tone speaks volumes.

[claire]

I have heard that very same, "awww, shucks," in a particular tone or coupled with a subtle raise of an eyebrow... Methinks it's sometimes less the words you use and moreso how you use them... Mmmmm.

Wait, is this turning into a poly exchange??

yes but awww shucks is quite non-amorous don't you agree? Now back to your knees ! And get that head down!

Ah! Thank you, Sir! Of course, Sir, I should have known I was misinterpreting it. :pray:

Well, maybe I should stop this hijack and answer your question.

As previously noted, I am the jealous type. This is because I am insecure. I would be hurt by that kiss, but I would want to know about it. Is it cheating? Technically yes, but I have never been one to see anything as black and white. Those shades of gray would make me consider motivation and intent and the trust I have in my partner.

[sidhewolf]

I think it comes down to the fact that people define love differently, no? The term, polyamorous, whose roots are pretty clear, has been used to describe something far different then its simplisticly complex definition.

Poly folks don't necessarily have the same relationship with each member of the poly family. For instance, it might be a couple who has a "third" for play only, or a Dominant with no primary submissive, but 2 submissives who have different purposes & functions in the household.

The way that Poly WORKS is to make sure of the following:
1.) COMMUNICATION is working. What kills Poly is the same thing that kills everything else: a lack of open & honest communication
2.) Clear definitions of roles. What kind of poly relationship are you having? Are you a couple who is looking for some sexual spice? Are you a Dom who enjoys having mulitiple submissives for multiple functions? Are you two couples who enjoy eachother's different strengths? Everyone in the relationship has to be on the same sheet of paper. Poly only works if everyone feels safe & secure in their purpose & role.

Beyond that...

Love is relative, as I said, to different people. Have I loved more then one person in my life? Sure, but not necessarily the same sort of love. My love for T is very different then my love of a Poly play partner (third), or a former lover. Does that mean that a third doesn't feel a part of the poly dynamic? No, of course not... but the TYPE & KIND of love of the third is just different.

I am sure there are people who would say "you can have but one true love." Ok, but how should I know exactly what that is? How can I know that there is ONLY one? Or that I HAVE the right one (I do, but hey, I am super lucky & special)? Is there some instructional guide? A DVD? A course? I certainly haven't ever seen one. So until I do, I am going with the statement of, "you can love more then one, differently."

Again, each to their own... but for poly, you can DEFINITELY have a situation where there is mutual love--just at a different level & a different variety--between all the partners.

Ok, think I babbled enough...

Your response to this topic makes the most sense to me, and my overall experience with Poly. Thank you!

Honest Open Communication is Truly the key to helping Poly work. At the same time isn't that true of any Style of Relationship?

Making and Keeping Agreements and setting Relationship Bounderies also faciltates the success of Poly. Like you mention Delia "Clear definition of Roles".

Though some of the concerns expressed by some other(s) here are certainly valid ones as well ime.

Time Management for instance is a bigger issue in Poly Relating, because there are more PPL involved. And every one wants and needs quality Time with their Partner(s). One can even become what is termed in the Poly Community as > Poly Saturated, IE have Too Many Partner(s) to fullfill the Relationship needs of. Which is not a good thing.

Taking on a Partner none of one's other Partner(s) likes or Trusts is also a pretty destructive thing to do.

Also Poly is a generic Term for Multi-Partner Relating. PPL in the Poly Community have as many definitions of What Poly is to them, as there are PPL nearly. One will have the best success in Poly, Choosing other(s) who have the same or similar definitions for themselves. Choosing a Relationship with someone who is seeking a 2ndry Partner, when you yourself are seeking a Primary Partnership, likely won't work out well in the longrun for anyone. Nor vice versa. And again like you mention Delia "Clear Definiton of Roles*.

Like any other Style of Relating, do PPL Choose Relationship(s) with other(s) that don't want the same or similar things from that Relationship? If they do How Smart is that? ummmm

I also note that many PPL in the Monogamous Mainstream of Society tend to think in the direction that Poly PPL simply have not found their "Right One" yet. How Many times in my Life have I heard this statement? I can't count them. The Truth of the matter is that they have found the *Right One*, just that they've found more than one of them, and each on different Levels. Each and every Relationship is different, like each and every person is.

Another key to making Poly work well is the ability to first of all Choose Partner(s) that will mesh well Together, and Trust and Respect eachother, as well as the Relationship Agreements and Bounderies of each Relationship. This facilitates Love and Trust with everyone involved.

As for me, my pre-existing Relationship(s) take precedence, and do set the standard for what I may or may not have to offer the next person. But that is me.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[Kuskovian]

Very well said Sidhewolf. Well said indeed.

[sidhewolf]

Very well said Sidhewolf. Well said indeed.

Thank You Denuseri's Master :)

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

My grandmother used to say "Don't be so open minded your empty headed" It took me a long time to really understand what that meant. As I got older I understood that the meaning was “know your boundaries.” This has been a fascinating discussion on boundaries, some people have the ability to extend to multiple simultaneous relationships some don’t. From these posts it’s obvious that not every one sees poly the same way, I guess it would be a damn short boring thread if we did.
So here is an opinion to ponder. Polyamorous is indeed a life style however there is also polyamorous action that has nothing to do with being in a poly lifestyle.
It’s very common to be in a committed singular relationship and engage in polyamorous activity. For example, I meet a friend…an old girlfriend for sake of argument, we have a few beers and kiss passionately before saying good night…”great to see you again, bye” no sex. I have just engaged in an amorous activity with another i.e. I have given amour to another, I have engaged in an activity that shows affection beyond a hand shake shall we say. OK all, morally where am I? Did I violate my committed relationship with a kiss? Or is it only a violation if it’s kept a secret? Or is it a violation if the action hurts the one I’m committed to?
Alright all, bring on the opinions!

First to say > I like Your GrandMothers saying. It rings so True to me. And it makes Honest and Good sense <soft smiles>.

Nextly on the questions; I would have to say this> You and Your Partner(s) Know eachother, and what Your Agreements in, and expectations of, that relationship are. So You likely Know where Your Morality is, whether or not You violated anything (likely before You did so if You are Real Honest about this), whether or not a secret is a violation, or whether what You do will hurt Your Partner. If You make Agreements and set Bounderies with someone and then break them You Know that.

A Real Kicker to me in these things is PPL who make Agreements and set Bounderies for their Relationship(s) with their Partner(s), and then just break the Spirit of those Agreements and Bounderies. IE tell lies of ommission, look for loopholes (like attorney's do). Seemingly keeping the Agreements and Bounderies, when they Really Aren't, ya know?

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

MastersGem I Agree with some of what you write here. It's Very True we are All People First. With feelings, thoughts, and Needs, no matter what Role we have or place we take in this Community. And I Loved your <gag and bleck> about unrealistic certain conditions that do currently exsist in many BDSM/Poly Style Relationship's <G>. True that a persons Dominant is at the forefront of a Submissive or Slaves mind and Heart, but that doesn't remove who a person IS.

Dominants everywhere are Learning more and more every day about this, and how to build Happy successfull Poly Households. There are success stories out there, and successfull BDSM/Poly Intentional Families I know. The ones who have been successfull for a loooong time already Learned and Grew through what most of the BDSM Communities Dominants are just beginning to *get* over the last several years. Which is in part, that this Style of Loving is Consensual. If Your Submissives or Slaves are unhappy and unfullfilled in their purpose of their Relationship with You, You will not be happy either. The Consent can become withdrawn. The happy Poly Home You plan will not happen, because You did not consider and support in action the ones in Your charge.

BDSM is a Power Exchange. One cannot Give Power they don't have. Just something to think about I think, and consider well.....

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[jeanne]

The number is not the point, the point is that we simply need to realize how much we all can comfortably bite off and chew.

That makes sense. Each of us is different - what works well for one person may be completely unacceptable or unmanageable for another, for an infinite variety of reasons.

[lily27]

I do think there are people out there who are legitimately polyamorous, have the best of intentions, and work hard to make their relationships work.

I also think there are many more people who slap the label "poly" on themselves as an excuse to cheat on their spouse, or become a slave collector.

You can't fix your first relationship by adding a second. If there is something seriously lacking in your primary relationship that you just can't live without, then it is time to find a new primary. Adding a slutty little slave on the side isn't going to make you any happier with your wife.

[Daes]

Poly relationships can work when you have the right individuals.

I've attempted a poly relationship, I flew up to meet them back in march. He was a sensual dominant named David and Tracy was a 'mommy' domina who loved to be pampered/

I was very happy and loved by both of them, in fact, things were going so well that we were planning a live in situation and they were going to get a larger house to accomodate me. They were awesome people. though it did fall out for reasons I dont really feel like getting into. We're still on good terms, and if a similar situation were to arise and I was single, I would love to do it again.

Its all very situational. My friend Mike wanted me to be a sister sub to his current submissive and it drove me up the wall. I said no. She drives me insane. He's one of my really good friends, and I can handle either her OR him, I Like her when hes not around, but when theyre together it makes me want to puke. So when we all tried playing together I get bored, annoyed, then irritated. It just would not have worked in the least. So I stopped playing with the two of them. He somehow thinks this is because I'm straight. Ha. I've decided to let this go rather than create an argument that could risk our friendship, its that much of an issue with me.

You have to learn what works for you. With a couple, you Have to take the pair, no one or the other. I'm a jealous girl that craves attention and affection - I know this and can foresee a situation where my jealousy would become an issue.

I'm not attracted to submissive females, but I loved having a Domme while it lasted. I miss her very much. Ive also realized that serving With other subs leaves me disinterested, which is why having a Dominant couple over a Dom/sub one works very well with me, I can spend my time serving one or the other, and as the 'pet' of the two, I become a very happy girl =)

Its certainly not for everyone, you have to know yourself, be Honest with yourself, have an idea of what youre getting into.

[sidhewolf]

I do think there are people out there who are legitimately polyamorous, have the best of intentions, and work hard to make their relationships work.

I also think there are many more people who slap the label "poly" on themselves as an excuse to cheat on their spouse, or become a slave collector.

You can't fix your first relationship by adding a second. If there is something seriously lacking in your primary relationship that you just can't live without, then it is time to find a new primary. Adding a slutty little slave on the side isn't going to make you any happier with your wife.

I think this is a Great Assessment Lily. And it rings very true to my experience in both the Poly and BDSM Communities.

The Point of Polyamory IS to have more than 1 Loving Intimate Relationship in ones Life, on an Open, Honest, level. Too many People either don't get, or ignore this factor. If there are secrets, lies, deceit, involved, it's Cheating. If it's Cheating, it's Not Polyamory!

Many who come into these Communities labeling themselves Poly, are seeking Sex Only Only Type connections. Which is also Not what Poly is about. And Which are desires that can be met in the Swinging Community. I think part of the problem, or mis-take in this, is that those labeling themselves Poly, are perhaps confused, or are a form of Community predator. And the label of Poly confuses the people they come into contact with.

If the pre-existing Relationship(s) are not Healthy, other Relationship(s) cannot be added with any reasonable expectation of success. One cannot (as you say) add another to fix what is broken or not working. Poly doesn't work that way, at all.

True Poly is an extension of Healthy, Happy, Loving, Open, Honest, Relationship(s). Not people looking for a bandaid so to speak.

One can put their thumb in a leaking hole in the dam, but how long will that last? Eventually it becomes a destructive flood that'll wipe out everything in it's path. My advice is > Don't be there!

There are (as you say) People who are Truly Polyamorus, who operate in their Relationship(s) with Honest, Open, Loving, intentions. One of the easiest ways to assess if this is what you have found (if you are seeking a Poly Style Relationship) is to be in direct Communication with all of the People involved in the pre-existing Relationship(s) Openly. And take your time getting to know them. As well as giving them all time to get to know you. If there are secrets and lies Anywhere, or vast differences in their communications to you, you haven't found what you are seeking.

In the BDSM Community there are many so called Poly Dominants seeking to add more Submissives, or Slaves. Assuming this is Their Right, and irregardless of the feelings, fears, thoughts, needs, or Agreements they have, with the ones they have. And without correcting that situation First. These do not make for a positive situation for those seeking a Loving Poly Home, or Relationship(s).

People in this Community are Learning and Growing more every day across the board in regards to what Poly is and what it isn't.

My experience in Poly is that people (like any other Style of Relationship) #1) need to Choose other(s) with the same or similar definitions of what they are each seeking for and in a Partner. Not just settle for whomever may be willing to connect with them. Keeping in mind people are Who and What they are. You cannot just take any person who becomes available, and hope to Change them later. #2) Work within the negotiated Bounderies and Agreements they already have to attain what they wish for in order to extend what they have built to someone else.

The Wise and Experienced Poly Dominants I know Never Choose other(s) that don't mesh with Their wishes to begin with. And They never add, or try to add, Anyone that won't mesh with what they have already established. These want and Will Have a Happy, Peacefull, continueum in Their HouseHolds, and in Their Lives. Something that cannot be attained without having done the work and being Responsible. This is easily seen in Their Homes, and Their other Relationship(s).

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[J-Go]

Poly is wounderful for those who choose it, when it's dumped upon you it just isn't that much fun! I don't care what lifestyle you choose accountability to the hearts of those you claim to love and care about is the true measure of character.

[bip0lar]

i was actually discussing something similar with my mother a while ago, and i liked the way she put it:
In other cultures, what we choose to call primitive [which is so not true necessarily], men had different wives/women/partners not only for their own pleasure but also for the comfort of the women. Each wife/woman/partner was in charge of a specific duty. Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face.
I've met a Family in poly, they love each other, they care for each other and they respect each other, which i find acceptable in every way. I am not saying i could deal with it--i don't know, but i doubt that i could. I need and want to be special to my Dominant, if i feel that i cannot satisfy his needs i'll just break down--but in no way would i be judgemental of a poly relationship. After all, i'm pretty sure we know of many people cheating on their partners--at least in this case, it's consensual and all needs are met.
but that's just me :x

[Ozme52]

i was actually discussing something similar with my mother a while ago, and i liked the way she put it:
In other cultures, what we choose to call primitive [which is so not true necessarily], men had different wives/women/partners not only for their own pleasure but also for the comfort of the women. Each wife/woman/partner was in charge of a specific duty. Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face.
I've met a Family in poly, they love each other, they care for each other and they respect each other, which i find acceptable in every way. I am not saying i could deal with it--i don't know, but i doubt that i could. I need and want to be special to my Dominant, if i feel that i cannot satisfy his needs i'll just break down--but in no way would i be judgemental of a poly relationship. After all, i'm pretty sure we know of many people cheating on their partners--at least in this case, it's consensual and all needs are met.
but that's just me :x

I understand the sentiment, but why do you set the standard that 'special' to him means you and you alone? Should children feel less special if they have siblings?

And please, not the standard "that's different" argument. Unless you can explain how it's different. Because I don't see it.

[DowntownAmber]

I understand the sentiment, but why do you set the standard that 'special' to him means you and you alone? Should children feel less special if they have siblings?

And please, not the standard "that's different" argument. Unless you can explain how it's different. Because I don't see it.

Sorry Oz, you know I adore you but I'm gonna' fling the bullshit flag out onto the field on this one. I'm groovy with poly when it does indeed work for all parties involved, I've said as much prior in the thread. It's all about what you can handle and not biting off more than you can chew. However, a parent to child relationship and a sibling to sibling relationship is not the same dynamic as romantic and sexual love between adults. A parent raising a child is mentoring a growing person with a developing intellect into a young adult who will one day be outed from the nest and expected to exist on their own. As parents, part of the job description is to make the little snot nosed DNA copies function apart from us. As romantic partners (key word there being "partner") the goal is the opposite: we're trying to figure out how to function with each other.

A parent, I would hope, would indeed love their child/ren for life. I would hope a parent would not choose obvious favorites. My parents had three of us, loved us all and cared for us all and their pride and love is clear in their eyes when they look at each one of us. However, it is nothing compared to the depth that exists when they look at each other and, in their case, only each other. After nearly 33 years of marriage they are still so enthralled with each other that there is simply no more room for anyone else.

[jeanne]

Perhaps poly is a workable life choice, but it does require a particular degree of openness. And a finely tuned consideration by and for all parties involved.

And yes - love for children is different from love for lovers. It's not easily explainable, it just is.

[Ozme52]

Amber, at least you are trying to meet my 'explain it' request.

I'll have to absorb it and think on it a bit. But in the meantime... I still see the capacity in us, humanity, to infinite love within us.

[Ozme52]

Perhaps poly is a workable life choice, but it does require a particular degree of openness. And a finely tuned consideration by and for all parties involved.

And yes - love for children is different from love for lovers. It's not easily explainable, it just is.

Perhaps because I don't have children, I can't understand it... the difference.

Perhaps because I don't have children, I treat all my adult loves as most treat their children. Does that make me, as a poly personality, shallower or deeper?

[jeanne]

Perhaps because I don't have children, I can't understand it... the difference.

I don't think that's the case at all. It is, of course, tempting to fall back on that easy response, but it's facile. I'm going to think a moment - will attempt an explanation. Perhaps it will make sense, perhaps not.



Perhaps because I don't have children, I treat all my adult loves as most treat their children. Does that make me, as a poly personality, shallower or deeper?

Only you know the answer to that. Each of us finds what works for us, and makes our own peace with it.

[jeanne]

Love for children vs. love for lovers.

When I try to come up with what the difference is, it's hard to think rationally about it. It's just one of those things that I accept as true without questioning why. So here's my attempt at 'why'.

Love is made up of a lot of different elements. There's need, desire, protectiveness, generosity, selfishness and selflessness. I know there's more - and I'm sure ya'll will tell me - those are just the ones that occur to me now.

Feeling love for a child is accepting the eventual change in the relationship, the eventual loss of the intensity of the bond that is formed at birth (or when that child becomes a member of your family). That is a component of that kind of love. It is fraught with responsibility and fear, accompanied by myriad intangible rewards. The big reward is raising them and seeing them become happy, functioning adults, who loosen their bond with you voluntarily.

Love for a lover though...rather than accepting the eventual loss of the bond as part of the process, as part of how you love, we want that bond to last and grow stronger. And we expect, when we say "I love you" to another, for the bond to strengthen. Often this does translate into monogamy. It depends on the person. And when we say those words to another, it is often a way to feel special. And when we hear them, we believe that we are. "Hey", we think, "this person, who I love, also loves me! I trust that they will care for my heart, as I will try to care for theirs, and treasure my love." It doesn't mean that we can't also love others, though.

Love for our children is strong, almost indestructible. Romantic love, when wholehearted, can be fragile. I personally hate that it is, at least for me, but it is.

I fear I didn't do a good job answering the question...oh well.

[J-Go]

OK look this whole line of loving your kids or both mom and dad or sister Sue and cousin Mike is about to make be heave. As human beings, unless we have some serious wiring flaws, we are all capable of loving more than one person. But give me a break here, the poly life style is about having sex with more that one person…guilt free. Now PLASE don’t get me wrong, if that’s your thing and you can make it work with all the people you are being intimate with MORE POWER TO YOU. But to compare a lifestyle choice to loving friendships or familial relationships is missing the point of the thread, and in all likelihood justifying your choices cast onto another person who at some level doesn't feel the same way.

[denuseri]

It all depends on the individuals and thier preceptions involved.

When one goes "poly" say for a fling like a play party or gangbang situation, or an owner is shareing his girl with another, its certianly different from the other type of "poly" relationship............. where a two way street turns into an busy intersection.

[jeanne]

I just reread this entire thread with an eye towards the fact that I'm genuinely working on finding a comfortable 'level' of poly for me. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and feelings here...I know how difficult it can be, particularly when your own ideas are contrary to the 'accepted norm'.

:wave:

[icey]

it does work for some people, firstly because all of this in love stuff...well i have to ask, what is it really? most people will say they have been ''in love'' and ''have loved'' more than once and with each new partner will say they have never before loved anyone like they love them etc etc , that to me is because everyone cares about and likes admires etc each individual they become close to in totally different ways ..so why cant you love more than one person at a time?
what causes the problems with poly r/ships is nothing to do with love or lack of it but just plain jealousy imo
at a fetish fair we went to last year we met a family.
in all there were 7 members each with their own place in the household and they'd had been together for some 20+yrs they were all extremely happy and each were equally of value, however i think thats fairly unique.

i said 7 members but you might want to (yet strangely they didnt) include the married ''cat'' who came to visit once every week or so for a little 10 minute petting on someones lap lol

[shyslut]

Me and my husband have talked about this alot as well.

"Each wife/woman/partner was in charge of a specific duty. Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face."

Not to mention that in a monogamous relationship you have to be their lover, mother, nurse, friend, team mate, therapist, coach. In short when your only two you do lean VERY hard on the other person. Me and my husband after many years of marriage have agreed that our love has indeed grown for each other and is stronger but still cannot be the end all be all fulfillment of everything we need. Its not possible.

Now I have a husband and a Dom. I love them both. However because of the commitment if hubby said no dom I would. Earlier in my life I could have never imagined getting to this point. But Im glad I did. The 3 of us are much happier!!

That being said. Being honest and transparent. Doing alot of planning and negotiating is very important. Communicating and sticking to our agreements is VERY important. I hope the situation lasts a long time. This is my first time. Im ok if it doesn't though because right now were all happy and getting our needs met.

[Hime]

If there is something seriously lacking in your primary relationship that you just can't live without, then it is time to find a new primary. Adding a slutty little slave on the side isn't going to make you any happier with your wife.

This doesn't really apply to everyone. Like many (although definitely not all) bisexual people, I really need to be with both men and women. By that definition, my relationship with my husband is "seriously lacking in something that I just can't live without," because he doesn't have a vagina *and* a penis. I don't think that means it's time to choose a new primary. :p

[Silus]

You must have a strong relationship and go very slow...my wife and I have messed with it...mostly just going to adult clubs and watching others so far.

[MollysMaster]

This doesn't really apply to everyone. Like many (although definitely not all) bisexual people, I really need to be with both men and women. By that definition, my relationship with my husband is "seriously lacking in something that I just can't live without," because he doesn't have a vagina *and* a penis. I don't think that means it's time to choose a new primary. :p

As long as everyone involved is 100% honest, it can work very well. You are correct that your H doesn't have a females' body, so by finding a female partner that he is not threatened by would be your best choice. It can be done, but again I must stress that there can be no lies or deceptions...otherwise you are just cheating/sleeping around.

Poly also works for those whose primary partner is vanilla and you are looking for someone to explore your kink side. It doesn't mean you love your primary any less, you are just looking to add another piece that is not there.

I have found that I have grown closer to my spouse throughout these experiences. I have learned more about her in ways I could not bring out. However, by allowing her to explore certain desires with another partner, I have been able to modify how I treat her.

Our sessions are more passionate and her submission is deeper then it has ever been.

This does not work for everyone, but for those that it does...:blurp_ani

[jeanne]

I've reread this whole thread...again...


Just because they agree to it (thinking all the while, he'll pick me in the end) doesn't mean they like it either.


This struck a chord with me. To go into a relationship with one who is a self-proclaimed poly person with an eye towards "he'll pick me in the end" is just setting oneself up for failure. You turn a relationship into a test. It is a really icky way to go about conducting a relationship - having a hidden agenda.


I think whether you feel positively towards the idea of Polyamory in your own life, or not, is just fine. It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to criticize others' lifestyles, though, and apply their personal morality to others.

It's precisely that type of thinking, that disapproving of others' mutually-consenting sexuality, that leads bdsm people to need to be anonymous on forums like this. And yet even some of us are doing it! Makes me very sad.

Yes. This is definitely something that makes me sad too. We are all, by the nature of our BDSM needs, considered abnormal by 'society'. And supporting each other in our own personal choices is something I think we owe each other. And no, that does not mean that if Joe Blow states his desire to 'do' 12-year-old girls that we must support it. There is a line between personal choice and doing harm to others, particularly those who do not have the ability to consent, whether because of age or mental maturity and intelligence. But for consenting, thinking adults...yes. It truly is their business to decide how they want to live and also their business to determine how to get their needs met without harming others.


I had a lot typed out on this, but nah. I'll just say this-

If polyamory is the thing for you, then do it. Know yourself well enough to understand what it is you desire in a relationship, find a like-minded soul (or souls in this case) and do it all over the place. Live your life and be happy in it.

Just don't expect and/or demand that others be happy with you in the living of it. "Live and let live", while a grand idea, just isn't realistic. And unless you live totally isolated from public view and opinion, what you should expect are judgements, differing opinions and disapproval. That's what people do when they don't understand something. And forget trying to "make them understand" any of it. They don't want to.

That's life. Have fun with it.
:wave:


That's very true. Understanding is a bit much to ask, when we choose such different paths. It would be nice though if there were a little more acceptance.



As for me, my pre-existing Relationship(s) take precedence, and do set the standard for what I may or may not have to offer the next person. But that is me.


Yes. I do find that this is a truth for me.


I need and want to be special to my Dominant,

Yes. I think we all have a very human need to feel special, in a 'romantic' way, to someone. And that need almost seems, from my own experience anyway, to be magnified for submissives. I'm working my way around to separating that need from emotions like jealousy and envy and insecurity and fear.


Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face.

Not to mention that in a monogamous relationship you have to be their lover, mother, nurse, friend, team mate, therapist, coach. In short when your only two you do lean VERY hard on the other person.

God, yes. I did it for almost 24 years...and I'm worn out. I don't WANT to be anyone's 'everything' ever again. And I have no intention of putting another person in that position for me. For two reasons: a) because of what I just said - it wears them out and b) because I don't think any one person can meet all my needs anyway. Why set them and myself up for failure like that? Especially if I claim to love them?



This does not work for everyone, but for those that it does...:blurp_ani

Exactly. My hope is that it will work for me, because I think it is the happiest way for me to live.

-----------------------------------

A good friend has loaned me a book - "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of information and definitions of terms and first-person narratives and hands-on advice for how to talk about poly and work out agreements and deal with emotions. I'm finding it very useful and recommend it highly for any who are interested in exploring this lifestyle in an emotionally honest way.

[hopperboo]

I believe you can love many people.

I also believe it takes very special and rare people to be in love with more than one person - and have that work with all in the relationship.

But I certainly believe you can love more than one and have a relationship, a long and lasting one at that. There are societies that do it everyday, and even in the beginnings of the USA we had the Native American's that would marry with multiple wives or take a wife (and children) of a brother that had fallen in battle or died.

If that isn't the most selfless love on Earth I don't know what is.

[DowntownAmber]

Since this thread has been bumped, I too have gone back and reread a good portion of it. Three pages worth of discussion, many useful points and points of view. It seems to me, however, that it still boils down to figuring out what works for you and expressing that honestly. Be with a partner or partners that you trust as honest when they tell you what works for them, as well.

Not to sound old and cranky here, but nothing gives me a bigger headache than people that tell their partner a lie about how they feel because they think it's what the partner wants to hear and then they get all upset because the partner acts on what s/he has been told. "Oh, you're poly? Yeah, I'm totally okay with that. Not jealous in the least little bit. What?? You Dommed another sub! Now I'm pissed!"

Alternately, when told something by a significant other, it's helpful to believe it as opposed to translating it into what you think they "really mean" and being mad at them when you realize that what they said was what they meant all along.

Now, I'm not talking about when people change their minds, that happens and it can't be helped. I just prefer that all parties are kept abreast of the evolutionary thought process.

Poly or monogamous, nothing can be healthy without honest communication.

[blythe spirit]

Poly relationships seem to work well in a great many cultures. Could this be that there is a shortage of men? Was it because it took a single woman much longer to give birth, then it did for man to plant the seed? Meaning, it was a way to populate the world, which there is definitely not a need for any longer. lol

When I love, there is no room in my heart for anyone else. And when someone claims to love me, I expect their heart will be full as well. I want 100% devotion. If I can't have it, I won't give it. So, if someone tells me they're Poly, that's fine with me, but don't expect me to get involved with you.

Whilst I'm resorting to the tried and true, (a bit old-fashioned, I know) the wedding vows state, "forsaking all others." All others!

My brain is muttled after reading all the posts relative to this subject so, I might be repeating what someone already stated. Love between a "couple" is much different than that of children, mother/father, siblings, friends. Afterall, it is with no other that you share such intimacy.

[Ozme52]

Whilst I'm resorting to the tried and true, (a bit old-fashioned, I know) the wedding vows state, "forsaking all others." All others!

Yes if you mean christian (?judeo-christian?) wedding vows... but we wrote ours and excluded this and similarly aligned monogamous concepts. Do you also hold 100% to the obedience clause? One that only applies to the wife?


My brain is muttled after reading all the posts relative to this subject so, I might be repeating what someone already stated. Love between a "couple" is much different than that of children, mother/father, siblings, friends. Afterall, it is with no other that you share such intimacy.

Well, that's the point of the discussion. Can't use it as a dispositive fact.

[blythe spirit]

Yes if you mean christian (?judeo-christian?) wedding vows... but we wrote ours and excluded this and similarly aligned monogamous concepts. Do you also hold 100% to the obedience clause? One that only applies to the wife?



Well, that's the point of the discussion. Can't use it as a dispositive fact.

You're absolutely right, Oz. I am reciting that of the Christian vows. I suppose people can write whatever they want to meet their needs. However, I did hold to the obedience clause. My husband would no doubt, if he were still alive, attest to that. *mournful sighs*

Well, I'm using it because I'm not referring to the love between more than one intimate partner, but as an example of those we love with whom we do not have such intimacy. As I see it, that's a very different kind of love.

[MollysMaster]

Exactly. My hope is that it will work for me, because I think it is the happiest way for me to live.

-----------------------------------

A good friend has loaned me a book - "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of information and definitions of terms and first-person narratives and hands-on advice for how to talk about poly and work out agreements and deal with emotions. I'm finding it very useful and recommend it highly for any who are interested in exploring this lifestyle in an emotionally honest way.


- This is a great book! We have read it many times and passed out copies. Went to her book reading here and she was a very down to earth person. She also has a web site: http://www.puckerup.com/

Also another good web site to go to is http://xeromag.com/fvpoly.html
Pretty easy to read.

[sidhewolf]

Love for children vs. love for lovers.

Differences and in commons in these things *to me* are these; The In Commons I believe and experience to be > Long Term Committed Love. Another in common component can be the depth of that Love. And the Responsibility that entails. Love for Lovers has a component most don't have in common with say Love for Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Children, and that is that capacity for a sexually intimate Relationship, and other factors that such a Relationship may entail. Which is typically not a component of Bio Family Love. And yet still, Loving someone differently does not mean Loving less. It's really hard to compare apples to oranges, even though they are both fruit.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

I believe you can love many people.

I also believe it takes very special and rare people to be in love with more than one person - and have that work with all in the relationship.

But I certainly believe you can love more than one and have a relationship, a long and lasting one at that. There are societies that do it everyday, and even in the beginnings of the USA we had the Native American's that would marry with multiple wives or take a wife (and children) of a brother that had fallen in battle or died.

If that isn't the most selfless love on Earth I don't know what is.

It really just takes the openess to Love and it's potential and possibilities, as far as being able to Love more then one Partner. Actually creating working Multi-Partner Relationship(s) takes work, effort, commitment, excellent Honest open communication skills, and great Time Management skills also.

On the Native American practices re; Family> yes. I am the child of such a child. My GrandFather (on Fathers side) Fathered a child (My Father) for his deceased brother. And then passed unexpectedly himself (from a logging accident). My GrandMother (who was leaving the Reservation after the death of my GrandFather with their children) was asked by my Fathers Mother to take and raise her child as well....which she did.

Ironically years later, my Father and his 1/2 Brother were both in Love with the same woman (my Mother). My Father won her, and I was conceived. They were to be Married when he returned from the navy. Then my Father passed before making it Home when I was 3 weeks old. His half Brother (my Dad) Married my Mother, and raised me as his own :)

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

A good friend has loaned me a book - "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of information and definitions of terms and first-person narratives and hands-on advice for how to talk about poly and work out agreements and deal with emotions. I'm finding it very useful and recommend it highly for any who are interested in exploring this lifestyle in an emotionally honest way.

*The Ethical Slut* is also a very good book for Learning more about Poly Jeanne. It's a sort of Bible in the Poly Community, and has been around a lotta years :) It's also available on E-Bay quite inexpensively.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

Since this thread has been bumped, I too have gone back and reread a good portion of it. Three pages worth of discussion, many useful points and points of view. It seems to me, however, that it still boils down to figuring out what works for you and expressing that honestly. Be with a partner or partners that you trust as honest when they tell you what works for them, as well.

Not to sound old and cranky here, but nothing gives me a bigger headache than people that tell their partner a lie about how they feel because they think it's what the partner wants to hear and then they get all upset because the partner acts on what s/he has been told. "Oh, you're poly? Yeah, I'm totally okay with that. Not jealous in the least little bit. What?? You Dommed another sub! Now I'm pissed!"

Alternately, when told something by a significant other, it's helpful to believe it as opposed to translating it into what you think they "really mean" and being mad at them when you realize that what they said was what they meant all along.

Now, I'm not talking about when people change their minds, that happens and it can't be helped. I just prefer that all parties are kept abreast of the evolutionary thought process.

Poly or monogamous, nothing can be healthy without honest communication.

Very True Amber! Without Honest Open Communication, no Relationship of any Style really works does it?

On paragraph 2 of your post; And just clarifying meaning here; Telling someone one is Poly is not open field to simply do whatever with whomever whenever....unless that is a part of the Relationship Agreement. IE Declaring oneself as Poly does no more explain what that is to someone else, than declaring oneself as a candy addict. Poly means different things to different people. If I declare myself a candy addict, does that tell someone else that when I am going to the candy store that I mean to buy and eat All the candy in the store? Many times in the scenerio you mention here the problem is not about the Poly person relating to another person, its a lack of Communication and Openess about that. Too many people think declaring themselves Poly is a good excuse to lie and cheat the Relationship(s) they have. And when there is problems about that, they want to fall back on "Well I told you I am Poly". Of course a large part of that problem is about Communication too. When someone tells you they are Poly, it is Real Important to ask "What is Poly to you?". There are so many configurations that this is vital information to have.

Here's another good link;

http://www.xeromag.com/making_relationships_suck.pdf

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[jeanne]

*The Ethical Slut* is also a very good book for Learning more about Poly Jeanne. It's a sort of Bible in the Poly Community, and has been around a lotta years :) It's also available on E-Bay quite inexpensively.

This is a good one. I don't know why I didn't mention it too...perhaps becausen the other book is brand new to me and is the primary one I'm reading right now.


When someone tells you they are Poly, it is Real Important to ask "What is Poly to you?". There are so many configurations that this is vital information to have.


Absolutely. I agree completely. Assuming you know what another person means when they say they are poly is a prime way to get hurt.

[sidhewolf]

This is a good one. I don't know why I didn't mention it too...perhaps becausen the other book is brand new to me and is the primary one I'm reading right now.



Absolutely. I agree completely. Assuming you know what another person means when they say they are poly is a prime way to get hurt.

:) Just makin' sure you know about that one :icon176:

Very True, though in Poly Relating, generally Everyone gets hurt in some capacity when this happens. Of course Assumptions generally do mess up something in anything they are applied to eh? :eek:

Deciding what Poly is to you, and asking what Poly is to a prospective Partner, then Choosing Partner(s) that have needs of eachother that mesh, really goes a loooooong ways towards the success of that PartnerShip. Without this exchange of information, a Poly Sexual person and a Poly Fi person (for example) can become enmeshed, when they are Truly no match at all. In Poly Choosing Partner(s) that want the same things from the Relationship works best :)

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[DowntownAmber]

Very True Amber! Without Honest Open Communication, no Relationship of any Style really works does it?

On paragraph 2 of your post; And just clarifying meaning here; Telling someone one is Poly is not open field to simply do whatever with whomever whenever....unless that is a part of the Relationship Agreement. IE Declaring oneself as Poly does no more explain what that is to someone else, than declaring oneself as a candy addict. Poly means different things to different people. If I declare myself a candy addict, does that tell someone else that when I am going to the candy store that I mean to buy and eat All the candy in the store? Many times in the scenerio you mention here the problem is not about the Poly person relating to another person, its a lack of Communication and Openess about that. Too many people think declaring themselves Poly is a good excuse to lie and cheat the Relationship(s) they have. And when there is problems about that, they want to fall back on "Well I told you I am Poly". Of course a large part of that problem is about Communication too. When someone tells you they are Poly, it is Real Important to ask "What is Poly to you?". There are so many configurations that this is vital information to have.

Here's another good link;

http://www.xeromag.com/making_relationships_suck.pdf

Respectfully~SidheWolf

Indeed - I simplified for the sake of saving myself having to type more, but you're right that it is important to understand what poly means when you are either telling someone you are poly or hearing it from a partner. Definitions are key.

And now since we're back on the subject of communication, I'm going to switch gears just slightly and throw out another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

[Ozme52]

If BOTH partners agree to that policy... it can work.

I will admit, if I had the information 30 years ago I have now... I wouldn't choose it. But it seemed a good policy for two people who didn't want to swing and didn't see other options for being open.

The internet would have been a great boon to us back then.

[blythe spirit]

another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

Ha! Too many times in the "vanilla" world and I suppose this can apply to this lifestyle as well, women/men close their eyes for fear of losing their SOs. They have their reasoning, of course. "What I don't know don't hurt." However, when you care about someone, don't you know in your heart whats happening?

Guess, I just like to ask too many questions to live by the "don't ask, don't tell" creed. lol And I'll be damned if I'd close my eyes to anything. *thinks* I'm a wee bit possessive, huh? *giggles

[MollysMaster]

And now since we're back on the subject of communication, I'm going to switch gears just slightly and throw out another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

I believe it is always a bad idea to go don't ask don't tell. How could that work if you are open in communication. Communication is super key. You can actually learn some new things by talking about your experiences.

Maybe you thought you knew your SO but then learned that someone else did something and they liked it. Now you have just added more to your primary relationship then you had before. It also opens the door to being more compassionate and really opens the door to learning more about yourself and your SO.

More people actually could fall under poly then they think. Ploy isn't about just having sex, it's about relationships. Think about when you have had a friend in your life where whenever they needed something you helped them. Could that have turned into something more if you would have allowed yourself to share those feelings? But maybe you didn't because you were with someone else and so you kept doing things to be near them.

I am not saying you are having relationships with everyone who is your friend. However, some friends share different parts of your life then others. If you can juggle many friends, maybe you can have multiple lovers.:)

[sidhewolf]

Indeed - I simplified for the sake of saving myself having to type more, but you're right that it is important to understand what poly means when you are either telling someone you are poly or hearing it from a partner. Definitions are key.

And now since we're back on the subject of communication, I'm going to switch gears just slightly and throw out another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

<nods> Amber, I can definantly hear that :) and yet I do like to be as clear as I am able in Communication for everones sake. When walking the Journey of Poly, it's just so important to be Very Clear and Honest, just like in every other Style of Relating. Lies (even lies of omission) don't build anything positive. They in fact steal the often irreplacible building supplies. The Truth can be hard to tell sometimes, Especially when one wants something so badly, and what one must tell is not a warm fuzzy, or something one knows the other person may not, or won't like. But Only the Truth will ever Truly succeed in Getting what one wishes for.

I am reminded of something someone said here once on another topic, and I may not be able to quote ver batem. But it was something like > "The more Time one spends with someone who is not right for eachother, is more Time away from one or those who are". This is one of the Truest things I have seen written here.

A good example might be> Trying to hook up with someone one is attracted to who only has like 1 day a month to spend with someone other then the Partner or Partner(s) they have, and you need someone to spend nearly every day with. Telling the person who needs nearly every day with you that you don't have that much Time to give, given your current obligations, can lose you that opportunity to have a Relationship with them. But so will not telling them....eventually. Likewise Telling someone "Oh Poly is fine with me" when what you Really mean is "I am gonna compete for you and do my dead level best to take you away from your Life to suite what I want from you", most times won't work either. My own little saying that has proven itself True over and over for many years is > *Time Will Tell~It ALWAYS Does!*. Another thing I am is a Very Good Listener, and Very Observant! Red Flags to me are bright neon lights that scream "DON'T GO THERE!". And I won't. I don't do drama well or long. And if thats all it's gonna end up being, I'll end it now Thank you! Telling the Truth will always cut to the chase, or the Heart of the matter, which Everyone can decide for themselves Honestly and Openly what they can and cannot do.

I Agree for the most part on the DADT thingy Amber. Though it does work for some, or at least for a Time. I tried it only once in my Life, and it just didn't fit. *To Me* DADT translates as "We're kinda together, you can do what you want with no regard to me and Our Relationship, and I can do the same, and we'll just see if WE survive that". DADT also translates to me as a lack of True Intimacy (which I need with those I Love), and instability (which I won't be able to Happily thrive in). I am a very solid, stable, deliberate, kind of person. I need Goals, planning, adherence to Agreements and Bounderies (by Everyone involved), Re-Negotiation (if possible), an Ending if not. DADT is too risky to invest my Heart in ever again. I guess it breaks down to me that if I do not wish to be Known and Loved for Who I Am, and I do not wish to Know and Love my Partner(s) for Who They Are > Why bother?

I think also DADT is too much like driving a VW Bug Blindfolded in rush hour 100 mph traffic with Mac Trucks :icon176:

Respectfully~SidheWolf