Safe Words and Safety Concerns

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

I belong to a forum/message board that is geared towards women, but men are welcome as well. It has message boards on parenting and child care, diet and health, home and gardening, etc. It also has several boards about sex. The vast majority of the people there are vanilla, though there are a few kinky people there. Anyway, there is a male sub on that board who is married, but his wife isn't in the scene. He is going to spend some time with a Domme at a play party where he will serve her and the other people there. The thing is, that if he uses his safe word or stops the action in any way he will not be invited back and the Domme will cut off all contact with him.

I've been trying to come up with a way to respond to him that doesn't sound alarmist. By not allowing the use of a safe word that is telling me that the safety of the sub is not paramount to the Domme. I have been with my Master for 10 years and I always have the use of my safe word. You never know when something is going to go wrong. This male sub says he knows this Domme "very well," but that doesn't mean that she won't unknowingly push him too far.

What is everyone else's opinions about the use of safe words? I know that there are couples in M/s relationships that say that the slave has no right to use a safe word, since the slave has no rights and has surrender all control to the Master. I won't argue that point, because I was a slave in the past. But what about Dom/me/sub couples? Do all subs have the right of the use of a safe word? Should not the safety of the sub be the Dom/me's main priority? Should not the sub's own safety also be his/her concern and when the sub needs to stop the action he/she should be able to and not have to worry about the Dom/me getting pissed off about it?

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

Sorry that this posted twice! Stupid computer!

[jeanne]

Oh dear. That just sounds wrong on so many levels. Don't worry about being an alarmist - he should run far, far away from a situation like that!

Safe words are vital. For both parties. There are others here who can explain why better than I - and they will. :D

[Ragoczy]

A safeword may be used at the submissive's discretion. There should be no consequences, punishment or otherwise, for using a safeword. Period.

To put those kinds of conditions on the use of a safeword defeats its purpose. It's undue pressure and coercion placed on the submissive which, in my mind, tips things a bit away from consensual.

I'd be concerned.

[fetishdj]

If meeting someone for the first time and playing with them in this way, a safeword is essential. Only after you have played with someone a lot and know thier limits really well can you even consider not having one (and even then not the best idea). In this situation I would not agree to serve any of the people present unless there had been a good deal of negotiation first - limits set, an idea of what is expected and at least one way to end the scene if necessary. It sounds like these people consider themselves hardcore and therefore may be dangerous.

I do know some who do play without formal safewords but they still have it in mind that safety is important - the Domme always keeps a careful eye on the sub and stops if essential and the sub knows that they can still call a stop, they just don't have a 'safeword'.

In some scenes a safeword is needed because the sub is likely to be roleplaying. When he is saying 'no, please, stop, don't hurt me!' its all play and he would actually be frustrated if you did stop. However, in many scenes I have been involved in (especially some of the ones where I was filmed) I knew that I could just say stop or otherwise express discomfort and the Domme would stop and at least ask me if I was alright.

A good domme knows how to read a sub in terms of thier expression, skin colour, breathing etc and knows when they are in distress and will stop a scene regardless of whether a safeword is said if they think a sub is in danger.

[damyanti]

The thing is, that if he uses his safe word or stops the action in any way he will not be invited back and the Domme will cut off all contact with him.


Classic, emotional blackmail...it reeks of childish immaturity and insecurity. While the notion of a couple so in tuned with each other that they dont need a safe word is appealing...it is not the bond you can force...it takes time to develop and for a sub to put such implicit trust in a dom, she/he would have to feel utterly safe in the knowledge that they know their partner well and that their partner knows them...that doesn't seem to be the case here. Frankly, it shows a lack of brain power on the dommes part, and thats the nicest way I can put it. Even things like light bondage can end up causing nerve damage if not done properly...usually by a dom who lacks the ability of forethought and security in their own person to admit that something may not be working, learn from it and move. Nothing scares or angers me more than a dom who thinks submissives are just a piece of meat...and I have only been here a day, :rolleyes:.

Even for well established couples when experimenting with something new and untried before having a safe word is a prudent thing to do...safe word is just that...a safe way for a sub to communicate with their dominant partner...and to a dom who doesn't want to communicate with their submissive I suggest he/she buys an inflatable doll...its the only thing they are qualified to "dom".

[Piercingaze]

I would have to agree on this with what damyanti, fetishdj, and Ragoczy. A safe word, from initial meeting to years down the line, is a necessary part. Especially like fetishdj said with roleplaying.

As for what you were saying about "I know that there are couples in M/s relationships that say that the slave has no right to use a safe word, since the slave has no rights and has surrender all control to the Master." That sounds a lot what I was reading about in a different forum where the slave is no more important than a nice whip, flogger, etc. I know there is a name for that type of lifestyle, but I think that is taken too far. A slave is a person and deserves respect, and you should not get angry or vindictive if they feel they need to use a safe word.

[AdrianaAurora]

Me and Hubby never used safe word, but thats because we have an instinctive way of communicating with one another. We never needed a safe word to talk/communicate, but thats because when we started "playing" we already knew each other thoroughly and were so committed to our relationship, I felt safe with Him. He is always most cautions of my stress levels, and if we are going to be introducing something new - we talk about it, a lot and He often leads me through step by step, it helps Him catalog my responses and establish parameters of how much I can take for future references.

But to play without safe word with someone with whom you have no such guidelines is not sane. In fact, even if I planned to not ask for a safe word to be given to me in the first place, but a Dom/me told me I am not being given one/am forbidden to use it - it would be a deal breaker and a sign that I cant trust them to take care of me/my safety.

[Silkslostswitch]

I am a slave and do not have a safe word.but, before i submitted to lady she offered me the option of having one.she was thrilled that i didn't want one, but she let me make the choice. in my opinion the fact that she would cut all ties with him if he uses his safe word is very alarming to me.It says to me that she does not care about him at all, or for his safety.I would tell him to think really hard about submitting himself to some one like that.there are a lot of sadists out there that get off on doing real harm to people.

[fetishdj]

First and foremost this is about safety. I know there are some lifestylers out there who claim to not use safewords but, if you question them closely, you actually find that they use something similar or have an alternative method to ensure the safety of the sub.

I think 'safewords' have been associated too much with 'play' or 'tourists' and with roleplay scenarios rather than what some may call 'proper BDSM' and this is why some hardcore lifestylers do not use them - for fear of being associated with these tourists.

This is fair enough - you want to dissociate from something which is considered undesireable. However, you still need to consider safety and respect of the sub. Unfortunately, some inexperienced idiots also try the 'no safewords' pose but without the consideration of alternative safety precautions. LCslave's point about being offered the choice shows good practise in my view, though I also assume that the Lady in question also keeps a close eye on her subs who choose not to have a safeword.

A safeword is a useful tool which can be very handy when you do not know any or all of the people you are playing with well enough to judge thier reactions to certain acts. Some couples eventually find they no longer need it because they know each other so well but still have it 'just in case'.

Of course, on the negative side to a safeword, one thing I have noticed is that sometimes when you have a safeword you may actually push yourself more than if you didn't have one. The fact you have an out means that you will take more punishment simply to not use the safeword. It sounds paradoxical but I have noticed it in myself a few times.

[fellintobed]

I can't imagine doing any sort of BDSM play without a safeword or some sort of non-verbal way of signaling "enough". Whether a rope is suddenly too tight or the sub's headspace has gone somewhere uncomfortable, at the end of the day the "slave" and "master" are still people getting each other off in a particular, agreed-upon way, and people should have a right to be able to ensure their comfort and safety, EVEN WITHIN the context of a scenario where 'comfort' and 'safety' are ostensibly exactly what you're trying to escape.

I agree that there should be no conditions placed upon use of a safeword, and that this guy the OP is talking about should look for a different domme. I'm sure there are people that get off on not having a safeword, but if this guy is expressing doubts, he's not one of them, and he deserves to play with people that agree with his style of play.

[sadiej]

this situation sounds very dangerous to me. a Domme that would command or require a sub to not have or use a safeword does not really understand the level of trust needed to have a long-lasting, deep D/s relationship.

i don't understand how some Dom/mes get the idea that the option of a safe word somehow demonstrates their control and trust. it is just the opposite. establishing a safe word does not make the sub "hold back" from the Dom/me, but rather gives them the freedom to more fully embrace the control.

it is like the emergency brake on a vehicle. something that you can fall back on for your protection... but you hope you will never need to use it. with the proper maintenance and care of your vehicle - you probably never will. but knowing that it is there, gives you a greater sense of security and calm.

it sounds to me like she is more intent on controlling her subs and pleasing only herself in the process.... that is more like rape than a relationship. she takes, but without responsibility.

for a "one-time" fuck... the price is just too high.

[Ozme52]

Me and Hubby never used safe word, but thats because we have an instinctive way of communicating with one another. We never needed a safe word to talk/communicate, but thats because when we started "playing" we already knew each other thoroughly and were so committed to our relationship, I felt safe with Him. He is always most cautions of my stress levels, and if we are going to be introducing something new - we talk about it, a lot and He often leads me through step by step, it helps Him catalog my responses and establish parameters of how much I can take for future references.

But to play without safe word with someone with whom you have no such guidelines is not sane. In fact, even if I planned to not ask for a safe word to be given to me in the first place, but a Dom/me told me I am not being given one/am forbidden to use it - it would be a deal breaker and a sign that I cant trust them to take care of me/my safety.


May I suggest, as an experiment... that you get a safeword and promise to use it if you are in trouble physically or emotionally....

And see if that doesn't somehow create a step-up in intensity.

I go much much farther knowing she will protect herself than I would just on my own volition. The scenes are edgier and the experience hotter and more intense. :blurp_ani I've always maintained that her safeword is more for my benefit than hers...

If it doesn't make a difference in your play, then you can always drop it again. ;)

[Ozme52]

I belong to a forum/message board that is geared towards women, but men are welcome as well. It has message boards on parenting and child care, diet and health, home and gardening, etc. It also has several boards about sex. The vast majority of the people there are vanilla, though there are a few kinky people there. Anyway, there is a male sub on that board who is married, but his wife isn't in the scene. He is going to spend some time with a Domme at a play party where he will serve her and the other people there. The thing is, that if he uses his safe word or stops the action in any way he will not be invited back and the Domme will cut off all contact with him.

I've been trying to come up with a way to respond to him that doesn't sound alarmist. By not allowing the use of a safe word that is telling me that the safety of the sub is not paramount to the Domme. I have been with my Master for 10 years and I always have the use of my safe word. You never know when something is going to go wrong. This male sub says he knows this Domme "very well," but that doesn't mean that she won't unknowingly push him too far.

What is everyone else's opinions about the use of safe words? I know that there are couples in M/s relationships that say that the slave has no right to use a safe word, since the slave has no rights and has surrender all control to the Master. I won't argue that point, because I was a slave in the past. But what about Dom/me/sub couples? Do all subs have the right of the use of a safe word? Should not the safety of the sub be the Dom/me's main priority? Should not the sub's own safety also be his/her concern and when the sub needs to stop the action he/she should be able to and not have to worry about the Dom/me getting pissed off about it?

There's a possibility she's already 'scening' him by screwing with his mind... and if she's worth her salt, she'll revise her instructions when he actually arrives... or is testing his resolve and fortitude to see if he shows up at all...

but I don't personally care for that practice. And certainly not if she really means that ANYONE at that party can use him in ANY manner and he has no options except to take it or leave...

--------------------------

I always give a safeword. I also tell her that I won't be "testing" her to see if she'll use it... so I make her promise me she will... and then I add, you better really need it because if I suspect you are testing ME, then we're done.

[AdrianaAurora]

May I suggest, as an experiment... that you get a safeword and promise to use it if you are in trouble physically or emotionally....

And see if that doesn't somehow create a step-up in intensity.

I go much much farther knowing she will protect herself than I would just on my own volition. The scenes are edgier and the experience hotter and more intense. :blurp_ani I've always maintained that her safeword is more for my benefit than hers...

If it doesn't make a difference in your play, then you can always drop it again. ;)


Its a lovely idea :), but there is one little problem; and I am embarrassed to have to admit it, but I am a chicken when it comes to pain, :28:. Lets say caning, at the hard intensity He usually does it, I would safeword in the first ten minutes, (oh, ok - in the first five, :28:) LOL.

But its so nice to know you are thinking of me, :blurp_ani.

:wave:
Adri

[jeanne]

May I suggest, as an experiment... that you get a safeword and promise to use it if you are in trouble physically or emotionally....

And see if that doesn't somehow create a step-up in intensity.

I go much much farther knowing she will protect herself than I would just on my own volition. The scenes are edgier and the experience hotter and more intense. ;)

This is very true - and it was something I had to learn over time. A couple of times I must admit that I was thinking to myself "okay, one more, I can take one more..." and then another and another and another...and those were some of the times that I felt the closest to Him. :)

But it definitely made things more intense for me. And knowing that He expected me to use my safeword if necessary was indicative to me of His trust in me...and as a result I trusted Him even more. It was a lovely cycle.

And I did use my safeword a couple of times. And He did honor it...and I didn't feel like a failure. A gift He gave to me - that understanding.

[denuseri]

i have never used or even mentioned the use of safe words with my owner, but as others have allready stated we have a long established relationship, though knowing my Master so well, i am sure he would never push anyone to far

i once had a dom that said the very same thing you are talking about sisterhoney, if i had used the safe word he had given me it was tantamont to me breaking all future contact with him,,, which eventually i did

its a classic sign of dominant insecurity in my opinion to manipulate a safe word in such a way, some of us press on and deal with it, some of us avoid those types of doms, and others even see it as a kinda ironic carrot with repercussions to dangle in front of the sub

based soely of the information provided however, i would reccomend that he seek to communicate to his dominant the need for a more stable relationship and that for him to really build up a sence of trust with her he needs for the time being a safe word that doesnt hold a sword of deamocles with reprisal over his head

[littlepet]

I think if someone is going to a play party or is in the early stages of a power exchange relationship with someone, dis-allowing a safeword isn't fair.

At the same time however, I don't believe a safeword actually keeps you safe. If the other person is bigger than you and stronger than you or has you restrained, then they have the power, not you. No matter how much you would like to convince yourself otherwise.

If such an individual is not a trustworthy person, then your safeword will not keep you safe.

In a more full TPE type relationship I think of a safeword more as an "information exchange" where the submissive/slave is expressing honestly his/her limits of tolerance being reached. Then the Master can determine from that point what to do, but if one has truly given over full power and control and is truly owned, then they cannot give edicts.

At the same time though, a loving Master/Mistress would most likely listen to a safeword even if it was only given for informational purposes in the interest of not bringing physical or psychological harm to his slave/submissive. To ignore something like that is to break trust, possibly irreparably.

[denuseri]

Excellent way to say it Pet. I have been trying to figure out a way of explaining the "why" i have never really used them myself to people for a long time.

Thanku so much.

[littlepet]

You're welcome, Seri, glad I could help!

My use of any special "phrase" is because I'm going to cry and beg anyway, so no matter how well someone knows me, it's next to impossible to know if I'm actually being damaged before it's possibly "too late."

[denuseri]

Very true. My owner and I are to the point where that is generally the case, especially when i am playing the part of being "resistant or pleading on purpose to amuse him".

[littlepet]

hehehe :P