caught in a catch-22

[lucy]

I was given a task yesterday which contained two contradictory elements. Of course i went down fighting and faced punishment. Since i knew it wouldn't be a tough one i didn't make too much of a fuss about it, just tried to subtly hint at him that i was bound to fail (of course i know that subtle hints are wasted on most guys, and lo and behold, it was...lol)

But what if it were for a more serious punishment? Should i tell him his task was impossible to accomplish? Would you?

[skp2bear]

Perhaps he designed it to be such so he could punish you which is why you felt the punishment was light and tolerable.

[delish]

I think that may vary from relationship to relationship. Mine is fairly open, and I would have no problem expressing to Him that there's no way to do what He's asking- even in your situation, where the punishment is light. If it had been designed that way, it would've been to provoke a fight from me and it would've worked, heh. Double the punishment; double the fun!

In a more serious light, though- if the punishment was something that was really bad (the "d" word, or something really outside my comfort zone) I would also have no problem sitting Him down and explaining it- respectfully, of course. (I do not always fight, but it is frequently fun, in the right time/place.) I would ask Him to assess it and acknowledge that if He still felt it was possible for me to accomplish, I would look for guidance from Him. If He told me simply to find a way, I wouldn't know if it was a setup for failure or if He had a solution.

If, in the end, I could not accomplish it, I'd ask for His solution to the problem. If He had none, after telling me it was possible, that would be a breach of trust. If He'd told me to find a way and had no solution, then it would've been a setup.

Okay, I feel like I've been overly wordy in explaining this response to the situation, but I try to be clear. I hope it helps at least a little bit.

[Arria]

@ delish: What do you mean by the "d" word? *looks curious*

[DiablosLittleOne]

@ delish: What do you mean by the "d" word? *looks curious*

I'm wondering the same thing. :)

[Flash]

I never give a sub a task I know she is going to fail. What's the point? Some people might be into that but if I give someone a task I want them to succeed. If not a punishment might be in order but to punish someone for not doing the impossible is not constructive at all.
Now, no Dom is 100% perfect. We do make mistake and overlook things, of course we try not to but it can happen. If I gave someone a task that was in fact impossible to perform I want to be informed of why so that I can change it to make it possible. I would in fact be disappointed if a sub did not inform me right away.
Of course, a task might be designed so the sub would think she would fail. Then she is probably in for a surprise...

[Ozme52]

@ delish: What do you mean by the "d" word? *looks curious*

Heh... maybe the dreaded "denial" :rolleyes:

But yeah... I'm curious too. ;)

[Ragoczy]

Without the details, it's tough to say conclusively, but I'd expect my kitten to ask me for clarification of the task, pointing out the contradictory elements.

In general, I try to follow SMART (http://www.topachievement.com/smart.html)guidelines when telling someone what to do (at home or at work):

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Realistic
Timely

[cadence]

If I am given a task that I know I am going to probably fail, I will say something, but I will still try.

My tasks are geared to push a limit, overstep my comfort zone or find out something new about myself.

He may even be aware that I will fail, but as long as I try and make an effort to do something he asks of me, then I have done much more for him by attempting something than not bothering to experience it at all.

Punishments for me are not something I would choose, as mine are geared to be extremely uncomfortable.
I would expect one if I didn't want to try, but I don't think he would ever use them as a means to push me further. That's pushing limits when I am not ready to be pushed.

Sometimes he does say that there will be a punishment if I do not accomplish what I am asked to do, and while the punishment is not very severe, he uses it when he knows I am digging in my heels and he wants to push a bit further.

I wouldn't worry about failing, as long as you try, and who knows maybe you will be able to go a bit further than you thought you could.

[delish]

The worst word He can say to me... "disappointed"

[SubmissiveDoll]

Honestly I've been given tasks that I was absolutely certain was impossible... well wasn't I shocked that I actually pulled it off?! But, for no reason would I not tell Him that I thought the task was impossible. He will usually ask me why I think that. If I have a valid reason for it being impossible, He will alter the task. He doesn't want me to fail. However, often enough if my reason is simply "I don't think I can do it" He will push me to try. Usually if I fail at a task that I honestly tried at, I'm not punished.

To answer the question though, yes you should tell Him if you think a task is impossible. He might think different. I have no idea what the task was so I can't say. But, our lifestyle requires honesty and communication. So you should always be open and honest with your Dom, He could simply be testing your limits, or just unaware of how difficult the task was.

[PropertyOfMasterJoey]

The worst word He can say to me... "disappointed"

amen to that. He's said it once and only once to me through the course of our relationship and i've avoided giving Him any reason to since.

[lucy]

Thank you all for sharing your opinion. In the meantime i had the possibility to talk to him and he wasn't aware that it was contradictory. But as some of you already have stated, he also said that i'm supposed to tell him if it ever happens again.

[fetishdj]

Yes, I also agree that the objectives should always be SMART. They also need to be clearly stated before the task begins to prevent any confusion. If he agrees to give you a chance each time to ask questions before you start a task this may help. This could be a set command you can follow 'i.e. 'You may ask any questions/speak freely etc) or it could be that you have the right to ask permission to speak and ask questions without fear of reprisal. This way you can ask questions and voice objections without violating the TPE set up as it is intrinsic in your contract with him that, at certain times, you may speak.

Of course, you should never be able to refuse a task outright but he may be inclined to offer you an alternative or modify a task based on your questions or objections.

I think it is also important that this 'question time' be respected as a time when no reprisals are possible from him to you so that you can speak freely without fear. However, you will need to learn to use this time wisely and not over use the privilege.

The ability to set effective tasks is something that comes with practise, it is not something that can be wholly taught. Experience will make him better at it and it is good that he seems willing to learn and involve you in the process.