Humiliation and BDSM.

[Veridical]

I apparently sparked an awesome debate in the chat, and got nearly everyone in the channel involved with this, so I feel it only fitting to share it with the world here. It's a hypothesis, as in, I've found evidence on both sides that counteract the other sides theories. It might end up being thrown to perception, and there is no right or wrong answer. But I'd love to know your opinions.


It is my own personal opinion that most all acts involved in BDSM have roots, small or large, in Humiliation. Almost any act you can think of in a BDSM context, can be demeaning and humiliating, on some form or level. The findings are vast that this is truth, including spanking, submitting in general, conforming to a Tops' desires, dressing or acting a certain way for your Top, et cetera. The list goes on, and most of these things seem, at least to me, humiliating on some degree. Granted some of them are hard to see as humiliating(submitting in general), but when you look at it hard enough, you can kind of see how it could be very, very slightly humiliating in a form or fashion.


Your thoughts?

[tiensprtjrs]

You're saying straightforwardly that all acts of BDSM have their roots in humiliation, well as of yet I haven't been humiliated; stimulated yes. As for the point of view it is relative to each and everyone's emotional baggage I would think. For what you might think is humiliating for some maybe most stimulating, on the contrary.

[debbiewyndsong]

i dont find submission in general to be humiliating, but i can see the argument for it. i guess it would depend on your view of submission.. it isnt something done to you.. its something you give joyfully and freely.. there are acts in bdsm that are humiliating and i personally find them very arousing... My former Master found my humiliation arousing

[LCC]

I would not deny that humiliation can be a big part of BDSM, but I don't think it is essential. My pet loves submitting to me, but far from being humiliating it puts her at ease. She is most fulfilled when she relinquishes control to me. Some women might find being restrained humiliating, but that is in the eye of the beholder (or the bound).

[Veridical]

You're saying straightforwardly that all acts of BDSM have their roots in humiliation, well as of yet I haven't been humiliated; stimulated yes. As for the point of view it is relative to each and everyone's emotional baggage I would think. For what you might think is humiliating for some maybe most stimulating, on the contrary.



Just because you personally do not view the act as humiliating doesn't necessarily make it not humiliating, imo. A humiliating act is still a humiliating act, regardless of what those involved tend to view it as. Something that would be humiliating for me may not be humiliating for you, and vice versa, but the act itself is still a humiliating act, regardless of how one feels toward it personally.

I'm just trying to step outside the box and look at it without bias toward my position as a slave who would like nothing more than a Master to call her a cum-drooling cock whore of a cunt. ;) While that sentence is not humiliating to me, it may be to you, or to someone else. Just because saying it does not humiliate me, does not mean the words themselves are not humiliating. That's the point I'm trying to make. ;D

Also, for the record; I said most all acts in BDSM have roots in Humiliation. I would never try to blanketly say that yes, they ALL do, no gray matter between. ;D

[Flaming_Redhead]

I agree that almost all aspects of BDSM incorporate some form of humiliation. I think many people make the mistake of thinking that because something is erotic to them then it cannot be humiliating. Humiliation has a negative connotation to some, so they are unable to see the difference between erotic humiliation and just plain old embarrassment.

Imagine your mother or some other ultra conservative person crawling around wearing a collar and leash. Mine would probably rather die than do something like that while I enjoy it immensely.

[voxelectronica]

I agree with aspects of this. I adore humiliation in both my sub and Dom life. When I'm being vanilla I often have to force myself to start thinking of things as humiliating to be stimulated. Something as mundane as missionary sex turns into an elaborate game of humiliation so that i can reach orgasm. So I can related to being able to see things as humiliating.

Flamming RedHead has a very valid point that we must stand back and look at what our parents would think. Though i think that also points out how relative these feelings are. Humiliation is cast upon us by social pressures and norms. If we lived in a Gorean society would it be as humiliating to be a cum dumpster? If that's something our mothers were called would it be such a turn on to be called it or just common place?

I simply think it is so relative that if you don't feel humiliated by the act then the act is not humiliating.

[MacGuffin]

Humiliation is relative the person and almost anything is humiliating to somebody somewhere. Some people may find being naked with a man on top of you humilating (why did people use to wear nightgowns during lovemaking) but would you therefore conclude vanilla sex is humiliating.

In bygone days one of the purposes of a public flogging was no doubt humiliation but when the masochist is whipped in front of a crowd at the local bdsm club he/she may love being the star of the show and centre of attraction.

Yes almost any activity (bdsm or otherwise) can be done in such a way that the bottom finds it humiliating but to say "most all acts involved in BDSM have roots, small or large, in Humiliation" implies they are a derivative or sub class of humilation.

[gloombunny]

I'm sure you could look at any BDSM activity and situation and find a way to perceive it as involving humiliation, but that doesn't mean that what the participants are getting out of it has anything to do with that way of perceiving it. Does that make sense? I don't think it's really valid to say that an act is inherently humiliating - well, maybe for some few acts it is, but not most BDSM activities. If one person thinks that wearing a collar is humiliating but another takes pride in it, how can you say that one or the other has the "correct" view of it? It's all subjective.

[Wyked Bytch]

most bdsm acts are humilating ( or degrading) in part because you have been trained by society to repress the said act for what ever reason. Having a Dom/me(top) MAKE you do what ever humilating act it is that they are making you do, takes the responsibility off of you and puts it on them, (ie: I am not a slut I am doing it because my Dom is making me.... I am not bi I am only doing it to please my Dom.. etc...)The humilating act , what ever it might be. is a way of training you, but if you evaluate almost any thing you have been taught in your life, you would find that humilating you was part of that training,(ie: do not pick your nose, it is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself..do not masterbate , it is unclean( or what ever it is you were told) and again...you should be ashamed of yourself...etc..We expect to do acts that socitey has deemed wrong to be humilating , the personal pleasure we derive from it something to be desired, but we have been trained to believe most things we desire are wrong.. Just my 2 cents, given an 4:30 am.so take that into account when reading this ~Wyked~

[dungeonlover]

I think your opinion is right.
When you submit ,you are in one way or another,humiliating yourself,but the amazing thing is that this humiliation is :Stimulating !!!

[Veridical]

most bdsm acts are humilating ( or degrading) in part because you have been trained by society to repress the said act for what ever reason. Having a Dom/me(top) MAKE you do what ever humilating act it is that they are making you do, takes the responsibility off of you and puts it on them, (ie: I am not a slut I am doing it because my Dom is making me.... I am not bi I am only doing it to please my Dom.. etc...)The humilating act , what ever it might be. is a way of training you, but if you evaluate almost any thing you have been taught in your life, you would find that humilating you was part of that training,(ie: do not pick your nose, it is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself..do not masterbate , it is unclean( or what ever it is you were told) and again...you should be ashamed of yourself...etc..We expect to do acts that socitey has deemed wrong to be humilating , the personal pleasure we derive from it something to be desired, but we have been trained to believe most things we desire are wrong.. Just my 2 cents, given an 4:30 am.so take that into account when reading this ~Wyked~

Yes! This is exactly what I was talking about, yet, not in so many words.

[Mastrovenice]

Great thread. I agree with Wyked. The line is where someone cannot eroticize humiliation and can only think of it in a more political/social sense.

What about pain though? This part of BDSM seems purely physical an not related to humiliation.

[thegirlwonder]

What about pain though? This part of BDSM seems purely physical an not related to humiliation.

Except if you're humiliated because you enjoy pain XD

[Pearlgem]

What about pain though? This part of BDSM seems purely physical and not related to humiliation.

Surely the administration of pain itself can be considered humiliating - an adult person inflicting this on another adult - especially in a discipline/punishment situation. It's not humiliating to be bent over a knee awaiting and getting a bare bottomed spanking?

But I agree when it's done purely for pleasure on both sides, it's more difficult to see it as humiliating.

After a while, what BDSMers do seems so 'normal'!

[justintheman]

I have seen something like this on tv on a ponyplay something... the dom said that all the people ( girls in his case) had some issues in the past (like child abuse and the sorts)
yet I can't imagine (but that could be my mistake) so many sound people like that sharing these "kinks" on this board

[tydnchaynz{NSXX}]

What a great thread!! Although humiliation is an aspect of BDSM, i'm in the mindset to agree with what Wycked said. Humiliation has been a training tool since the beginning of time. And humiliation is so very subjective. Like others have said, i know people that would prefer to be dead than to lounge around naked wearing nothing but a leash and collar, and it's a perfect day for me! On the same hand, i would rather be dead than to have to speak in public *shrugs* and to someone else, it's their career.

To me the question is not if humiliation is a root part of BDSM, but what area of life is there that does NOT have humiliation in it???

Again, love the thread iPet......makes ya think!

[awakening2]

Interesting, I think each words has specific dictionary meaning, which infact are the right meaning. However with time, we twist the meaning and as group of like minded people expand, we start claiming it to have different meaning then that of the dictionary meaning. Humiliation to me is which takes away your self-respect and self-esteem. BDMS would be different to me, as in a real life "game" in which two parties rather exercise their desires to either be a dom or a sub to another being willingly and exercising self-constraints to please the other and themselves yet ensuring that things do not go "out of control" (beyound the limit!)...does it make sense?!

[gloombunny]

Surely the administration of pain itself can be considered humiliating - an adult person inflicting this on another adult - especially in a discipline/punishment situation. It's not humiliating to be bent over a knee awaiting and getting a bare bottomed spanking?

But a bare-bottomed spanking is generally seen as more humiliating than, say, being flogged on the upper back while still wearing pants. Doesn't that indicate that it's something other than the pain that's causing the humiliation? (In the case of bare-bottomed spankings, I'd say it has a lot to do with being treated like a child. Spankings are what we do to naughty children; flogging is more of an adult punishment and therefore less humiliating.)

Now... being powerless or overpowered can be very humiliating, and bondage and pain infliction definitely play into that. But I don't think that means the acts are inherently humiliating - to some people, the powerlessness aspect doesn't feel applicable because they know it's only happening by their consent, and they might even see the pain as a chance to show off how tough they are by taking it - turning what would be humiliating for some people into an source of pride, even.

[sinderella]

humiliation exists in the mind, not in the act, for the most part. i never feel humiliated, rather, exalted. the only time i feel bad is if i have disappointed Him in some way...

[blythe spirit]

It all exists in the mind - the body's playground. lol

[Soaul]

Humiliation like guilt is a feeling about a feeling. Everyone feels the primary feeling, i.e., the pain, stimulation, pleasure, etc. But, not everyone gets the same secondary feeling, i.e., humiliation, about their primary feeling.

So, your premise that that all BDSM is based on humiliation is wrong. There is nothing humiliating about service, etc. if it is in the person's DNA even though others may think it humiliating.

Feeling about feelings are societal and not always right.

[his_girl_l]

Flamming RedHead has a very valid point that we must stand back and look at what our parents would think. Though i think that also points out how relative these feelings are. Humiliation is cast upon us by social pressures and norms. If we lived in a Gorean society would it be as humiliating to be a cum dumpster? If that's something our mothers were called would it be such a turn on to be called it or just common place?



I don't know how common this is, but i'm pretty sure my parents practice some form of bdsm. My mother gave me some of her old corsets, they have always had a whip in their bedroom, they have erotic art with a bdsm theme.

Ok, i'm more than pretty sure, but there are some questions you just don't want answered in detail!

But back to the point of this post, i am still very susceptible to humliation, even though i grew up in a very sexually open household and it is quite likely my mother has been called some of the names that humiliate and delight me.
And it has still taken me a lot of years to accept that submission is central to who i am and not feel shame about it.