Help! Topping from bottom questions!

[Ninva]

My owner is a very alpha male and comfortable with my sexual desires. However, I am STILL having trouble teaching him to dominate me without topping from the bottom. How do I suggest that he come here to learn more from tops without getting in trouble?

Example 1: If I do something that annoys him, he knows that he is more than welcome to take it out on my hide with or without gratification, but he seems to think that he must feel like gratifying me if he punishes me. It is okay to punish me (regardless of my pleasure) every time I fail to complete my chores, talk out of turn, or break one of his many, many rules. If I remind him, am I topping from bottom or merely reinforcing my consent to his will?

(Good lord, the rules! No wonder he couldn't have a happy vanilla relationship: I may never drive. I may never discuss our lives more explicitly than this. I may not talk to strangers without prior permission - yes, I am currently living dangerously. I may never be alone when away from home. I'm not allowed to do much of anything without his expressed approval!

However, he's accustomed to enforcing his rules without laying his hands on his previous lovers. Even though we have been married for more than a decade, I struggle to let him do exactly as he pleases, including not enforcing his rules with punishment.

Ah, there's the clarity - I desire punishment to feel absolution; instead of being mad at me, beat me and get it over with!)

Example 2: As my rules for smoking get more restrictive, I realized that he wants to force me to quit but cannot figure out how to broach the subject directly. I gave him a VERY polite letter hours ago that acknowledge the risk to my health and requested his help with a schedule of escalating punishments that would force ANYONE to quit. Is that topping from the bottom?

[Ragoczy]

I don't think it's topping from the bottom for the submissive to let her dominant know: "I need this" or "I need this from you". The dominant isn't all-knowing, so there will always be situations where, once it's explained, we'll say: "Well, shit, I thought the exact opposite."

Have you explained your need for absolution to him in that way? If not, he may not understand it fully. There's a tendency in dominants who haven't quite accepted that punishment is the "right" thing to do to want to make up for it somehow.

[denuseri]

Topping from the bottom shouldnt be confussed with comunication of needs.

If you never comunicate he will never know what works or doesnt work, feedback, honest feedback is essential

[SubmissiveDoll]

You want punishment or discipline? Because it sounds to me that in a sense you want him to whip your ass, instead of be disappointed in you. Well don't we all!? Holy hell, if I could get him to just spank me instead of having to know he's upset, hell yes I would take that! However it wouldn't be much of a punishment if it went the way -I- wanted it to.

Yes, he should do something when you break a rule. Why not just flat out tell him you'd like him to join you here on the library. Thats what I did. It's a great site with wonderful people, and lots of handy information.

And just a heads up, if I told my Master I broke a rule, it's up to him to decide if/when/where/how/why I get disciplined. I would never walk up to him and say "Hey, I broke a rule today, punish me." Why? Because not only would he do something much much worse than punish me, it's totally out of line for me to assume what he should do. 'Punish me' is a command, I can just imagine the look on his face if I were to give him one. Instead, if I break a rule, I tell on myself. I can't help it. More often than not, my punishment will be less because I told on myself and was honest.

But, the worst punishment I can honestly think of... his disappointment. I'd rather be hung than see that look on his face.

[SubmissiveDoll]

I did it again...

[rsjankowski]

yep you did, i see that you like to do things twice, does that go for everything you do and recieve?

[SubmissiveDoll]

yep you did, i see that you like to do things twice, does that go for everything you do and recieve?

Actually it's the internet. But yeah, I tend to things more than once. lol I'm horribly OCD.

[rsjankowski]

twice the fun, twice the punishments, i'm so proud of your obsessiveness, bet that means also that you take twice as long that you've done a good job of things just to be sure?

[SubmissiveDoll]

I do over double check.. Don't mean to. I really should work on that. I'd probably have more time for other things. lol

[Ninva]

Okay,

How does this sound for what I tell him:

1. "Love, I found a website that might help you get ideas for dealing with me."

2. "Although the withdrawal of affection is your preferred method of expressing disappointment, I ..." Oh jeez, I what? I find it more distressing than I can psychologically handle without feeling lost...? Like I'll ever be able to actually get that out of my mouth. The simple fact is: It makes me want to cry.

(Crying is a moderately forbidden activity; he has been fairly successful in conditioning me to reprocess my atypical depression as a point in time rather than an absolute, endless condition. He's got me down to perhaps two depressions per year instead of one a month or more.)

:idea: "Would you consider some other options for expressing disappointment instead of only pushing me away? I don't like your withdrawal of affection, and it is perfect for punishing me, but I tend to internalize it more than you like. I'd appreciate the occasional absolution of discipline. It doesn't have to be sexual, honest, and I promise, I won't idly let your temper injure me. If you want some ideas, I found a website that might help."

Thank you for your input. Nin

(I don't expect him punish me for every, or even any infraction of the rules; he has so many rules that I don't think he knows them all... Instead, every rule has a rating of how he feels about infractions: Talking to strangers is an occasional necessary evil that he never enforces beyond making his wish known. Other rules about extremely modest decorum, however, are never to be broken under any circumstances - I don't know what he'd do, and I'm absolutely certain that I will NEVER find out.)

[Ninva]

Okay,

How does this sound for what I tell him:

1. "Love, I found a website that might help you get ideas for dealing with me."

2. "Although the withdrawal of affection is your preferred method of expressing disappointment, I ..." Oh jeez, I what? I find it more distressing than I can psychologically handle without feeling lost...? Like I'll ever be able to actually get that out of my mouth. The simple fact is: It makes me want to cry.

(Crying is a moderately forbidden activity; he has been fairly successful in conditioning me to reprocess my atypical depression as a point in time rather than an absolute, endless condition. He's got me down to perhaps two depressions per year instead of one a month or more.)

:idea: "Would you consider some other options for expressing ANGER instead of only pushing me away? I don't like your withdrawal of affection, and it is perfect for punishing me, but I tend to internalize it more than you like. I'd appreciate the occasional absolution of discipline. It doesn't have to be sexual, honest, and I promise, I won't idly let your temper injure me. If you want some ideas, I found a website that might help."

Thank you for your input. Nin

(I don't expect him punish me for every, or even any infraction of the rules; he has so many rules that I don't think he knows them all... Instead, every rule has a rating of how he feels about infractions: Talking to strangers is an occasional necessary evil that he never enforces beyond making his wish known. Other rules about extremely modest decorum, however, are never to be broken under any circumstances - I don't know what he'd do, and I'm absolutely certain that I will NEVER find out.

On the very, very rare occasion that he is ANGRY with me, I need absolution afterwards. On the very, very common occasion that he is disappointed in my imperfection, I'm quite happy.)

[Ninva]

The second one is correct - focused on ANGER not disappointment.

I had another little sudden burst of clarity there.

[tusayan]

Another way to approach it is to have him read one or a few stories where the Master/Dom deals with the sub/slave in the ways that you need. Emphasize to him how much you love the story, how hot it is, or how much you identify with the sub in the story. While he might at first think of it simply as entertaining (hopefully) if you are adamant about your passion for the scenes, it might have an effect. Sometimes hints like that help get the point across if you can't find the right words.

That might be a more subtle way of directing him to this site, as well.

[SubmissiveDoll]

I think that is a much better approach. Though, even when my Master is not only pissed of, but also disappointed he would never take away his affection. Even when he is angry I could sit at his feet with my head on his knee while we talked about it.

So I can understand that much. But, not all infractions require the 'disappointment glare'. Sometimes my Master is just annoyed with me. Which is way different, and happens far more often. I'm annoying! *grins*

[leah06]

Lots of times as I post to a thread and begin a conversation with other people here, it clarifies my thinking. As I read your posts here, I wonder if the same thing might be occurring. You started off wanting to be beaten more frequently without requiring sexual gratification afterwards, but as you posted more it seemed that what is really bothering you is that your partner becomes cold and withdrawn when he is angry at you, and you would prefer that he express his anger another way - at least some of the time.

If this is true, I would strongly suggest talking with him about THAT - how you feel when he withdraws from you. I would stay away from offering alternatives, first, because that might be a little cheeky, but second, because you might not actually know what would work better. It really depends on why he withdraws affection. You hinted that perhaps he fears that he would injure you with his anger. This is a very different reason than if, for example, he knew exactly how undone you become when he withdraws and he likes that. So talking about how you feel and how he feels is really important. Once everyone has that information, maybe you can experiment with other ways that he can express his anger.

If his withdrawal really makes you panicked, I see no reason that a safeword couldn't be used appropriately to indicate the level of your distress - but I wonder what other people think about that.

[Ninva]

He isn't sadistic, merely EXTREMELY possessive. All of my rules are related to either being demure and wholesome in public, or reducing habits or behaviors that annoy him.

I'm beginning to think I have misplaced anxiety: I am quitting the job that we have worked together through our entire marriage, and I will not be right by his side all day, every day.

So I got him pissed off; so what - it happens to everybody now and again. He needed to cave dwell for a while - men do that on occasion. None of this is permanent.

I have a HUGE change coming up, and I have heard my heartbeat with nauseating anticipation for the last two weeks. Just the possibility of the Board of Education has me smoking much, much less. I feel like I've had too much caffeine ever since I STARTED getting ready to turn in my notice.

THIS is permanent; I simply can't force myself to do that job anymore, and the effort was draining us both.

It seems that I am afraid of losing his affection simply by changing our routine - not being there for a post-lunch hug, not being there for the ride home, not being there for the afterwork chores.

I think I'm finally centered on what is really bothering me and ready to talk to him. Thank you all very much for helping me identify the nature of the big, heavy rock on my chest.