Dom/me and slave/...?

[SauvagePouline]

It has been a long time since I was on a BDSM forum, and as I read, something occured to me. (omg! a thought! -marks it on the calendar-)

anyways, the terms for a dominant are very gender oriented. There are Doms and Dommes, Masters and Mistresses, and Sir's and Ma'ams.

Yet submissives... we all share the same terms. Slaves are just slaves. Pets are just pets. Sluts can even be both. Yes, some submissive terms are only one sex, such as 'cunt' but this is not to differentiate gender, but this is more because they are anatomy case. (I haven't met a male who has a cunt...)

So I think we should be called sub/bes from now on. hehe. It would make my life easier anyways, I always worry about calling someone by the wrong gender if they have a gender neutral name and haven't said anything to distinguish it.

[Laila]

Hm... good point. On the other hand, I think that gender is somehow more important for the dominant part. I might be imagining this but I always feel like there is a big difference between Doms and Dommes - or rather they use their respective sexuality so strongly...

For submissives it doesn't seem to matter that much. I mean some female slaves actually shave their heads, male slaves are made to cross-dress etc. I mean I love being a woman and I feel very feminine as a slave but... I feel like my submissiveness trumps my femininity somehow.
Plus, when it is my femininity that my Master wants to touch, when he flirts with me, when he praises me or wants to show me his love, he calls me his rose, which I find very feminine. When he addresses me as his slave, I am his slave first, not girly or flirty...

So maybe the very gender neutral terms for submissives are there for a reason.

[slavedoggieboy]

I am a male, white, 72 years old, submissive and a slave, and i have been called cunt many times by my Mistress L. It is a term that she uses both as a term of endearment, and as a term to put me in my place in her house.
But yes you are right that the word submissive or slave is the same for both sexes, but then again, it does not matter what sex we are, we are what our master or mistress wishes us to be. I have served women for 55 plus years, and have also served men at the orders of my Mistress, and have been called many things, and it all comes down to, she or he is in charge, and will address me as she or he wishes.

slavedoggieboy

[blythe spirit]

Wow, doggieboy, I bet you've seen lots of changes in the lifestyle over the years.

I've always felt a bit like sillypony in that it's difficult to differentiate between male and female subs. How did Dom/me start? They even have Dominant/Dominatrix... hey, now I'm starting to feel left out. lol

[denuseri]

Dom, Domme, are romance language variations of Dominator, Dominatrix , Dominus, Domino, and Domina which are all latin words to decribe one who holds dominion over a domicile and were common Roman terms for the head of houshold. They held dominion over a given household. Not to be confussed with the pater-familias who held dominion over the entire extended family.

[leo9]

When I'm discussing D/s I often prefer to use the gender-neutral term "Owner"; contrariwise, where gender matters I refer to femsubs and malesubs. In my experience there are important differences in the ways the sexes come at both dominance and submission, but they're all secondary to the fact of being Dom and sub.

That's why, as well as a lot of doms reckoning that any gender of sub will do, most men whose dream is to be owned by a woman can settle for being dominated by a man.

[AppSub]

Hm... good point. On the other hand, I think that gender is somehow more important for the dominant part. I might be imagining this but I always feel like there is a big difference between Doms and Dommes - or rather they use their respective sexuality so strongly...

For submissives it doesn't seem to matter that much. I mean some female slaves actually shave their heads, male slaves are made to cross-dress etc. I mean I love being a woman and I feel very feminine as a slave but... I feel like my submissiveness trumps my femininity somehow.
Plus, when it is my femininity that my Master wants to touch, when he flirts with me, when he praises me or wants to show me his love, he calls me his rose, which I find very feminine. When he addresses me as his slave, I am his slave first, not girly or flirty...

So maybe the very gender neutral terms for submissives are there for a reason.

I agree with you whole heartedly Laila about a submissives gender not necessarily being important and therefore not having a name but,
as I have switched on and off I've noticed that how I enjoy being the submissive is quite different from how women I have dominated.
I normally enjoy humiliation while more women preferred the bondage or masichistic side of things.
Maybe it's just me and that is the way I enjoy bdsm or femdom, but it is a trait I've picked up on.

I aggree

[blythe spirit]

Dom, Domme, are romance language variations of Dominator, Dominatrix , Dominus, Domino, and Domina which are all latin words to decribe one who holds dominion over a domicile and were common Roman terms for the head of houshold. They held dominion over a given household. Not to be confussed with the pater-familias who held dominion over the entire extended family.


*giggles* you're too funny. I know what the words mean and from where they originated....what I was asking is when the male Dom slash female me got started? I mean why should they get different identifiers when subs are just subs both male and female?

[SauvagePouline]

I understand the whole we-are-what-the-dom(/me)-wants-us-to-be argument, but I feel like it is a bit... fantastic.

Most submissives I've met have not given up their identity for their dominant. They may submit whole heartedly, but they have limits, they have personal preferences etc etc. And their gender most definitely has a role in how they view the world, and thus BDSM. The idea of totally and entirely giving up one's identity through submission IME (which, granted, is mostly reading forums) is more often an ideal or fantasy than a true, 24/7 reality.

I know, personally, that I probably would not sub to another person on the whim of my dominant. It just isn't that simple to me, and I most definitely have gender preferences. (I am much much more likely to want to sub to a male dominant than a female one.)

Therefore I stand by my argument that it should be all or nothing! (plus it simplifies matters for my poor overworked brain)

-cheeky grin-

[thir]

In my experience there are important differences in the ways the sexes come at both dominance and submission,


Can you elaborate a bit on this?

[denuseri]

What really happened wasnt that the Male/ Female aspect of domination was added so much as the male and female tenses of the words servus & serva or servae where dropped when incorperated from their romance language variants into common english usage.

Using the word Dom and Domme instead of Master or Mistress is commonly more politically correct with the mainstreaming of bdsm society, especially in the United States just as slave has been dropped for its negative conotations for the word submissive.

I haven't been able to find any hard historical references as to when and where the terms began being used and in which contexts outside of the natual history of the english common paralence. though in a bsdm context the different words are often associated with different levels of dominance and or submission in the lifestyle.

Myself when I refer to my Master with others I use the word "Owner" as opposed to Master to denotat the fact that I am his property as opposed to a more casual arrangement of submission.

I use the word Master when speaking directly with him because that is his desire and traditional for our form of bdsm, just as he often uses the word kajira when refering to/of me.

I use the words Sir or Maam with others unless directed otherwise. It is simple ettiqute even in the vanillia world and doesnt infer possession.

With other slaves I ussually do not use honnorifics other than brother or sister unless they have been placed in a position of authority over me.

[blythe spirit]

Okay, let me try and phrase this in more simple terms. As the OP stated, why should Doms and Dommes get a title to differentiate their sex, when submissives are just subs - male or female? I wanna be called something that tells the world I'm a woman - hear me roar! lol

[SauvagePouline]

lol bly, i think we should use sub/be from now on :-D Eventually, everyone might even start using it, and then we'll have started a new trend...

And just a small comment on Master/Mistress. I have no argument with the terms "master" and "mistress" I'm not sure why. Perhaps because they are most often used as proper nouns- not as a label. And there are terms like that for sub/bes- cunt, girl, kitten, boy... the imaginations of dom/mes has no limit... Plus, I can't think of a gender neutral term by which one could address one's dom/me.

Thanks for all the thoughts! I didn't expect a true and thoughtful discussion of this. It's interesting.

[HisKitty]

can't we be like, subalicious and subtastic? why limit it to genders? let's go global :D

[blythe spirit]

lol bly, i think we should use sub/be from now on :-D Eventually, everyone might even start using it, and then we'll have started a new trend...

And just a small comment on Master/Mistress. I have no argument with the terms "master" and "mistress" I'm not sure why. Perhaps because they are most often used as proper nouns- not as a label. And there are terms like that for sub/bes- cunt, girl, kitten, boy... the imaginations of dom/mes has no limit... Plus, I can't think of a gender neutral term by which one could address one's dom/me.

Thanks for all the thoughts! I didn't expect a true and thoughtful discussion of this. It's interesting.

Before I agree to the sub/be thingie, you'll have to get my name straight lol. It's blythe/spirit. Think "To a Skylark" or Noel Coward's famous play. Otherwise you're gonna have to refer to me as Captain Bly, which is a whole other story. hehe

Truly, though, I thought your OP was all in fun and wasn't taking it at all seriously. If I were, frankly, I don't like the "sub" reference period. subMissive for women and subServiant for men. omg! sometimes I just crack myself up.

[denuseri]

Okay, let me try and phrase this in more simple terms. As the OP stated, why should Doms and Dommes get a title to differentiate their sex, when submissives are just subs - male or female? I wanna be called something that tells the world I'm a woman - hear me roar! lol

Then let me respond in a way that perhaps you and all here will understand:

I am in no way shape or form merely some generic "submisive".

I am a "named", "collared" "branded" and "owned" love slave trainned to alure and pleasure a dominant with every fiber of my being.

To tantalize his soul with my every waking breath.

And my title denotes me with such distinction in addition to the Nomina my Owner has given me.

I can asure you it is a title that does indeed tell the world I am woman now hear me roar.

Woe be to the Dominant that forgets what I am, especially if I am under his whip at the time least he find himself beguiled into thralldom at my feet instead.

Beware La Kajira.



"There is a difference' laughed Hassan, 'between the pride of a free woman and the pride of the kajira. The pride of a free woman is the pride of a woman who feels herself to be the equal of a man.
The pride of the kajira is the pride of the girl who knows that no other woman is the equal of herself.' "

Tribesmen of Gor, page 333


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[SauvagePouline]

Before I agree to the sub/be thingie, you'll have to get my name straight lol. It's blythe/spirit. Think "To a Skylark" or Noel Coward's famous play. Otherwise you're gonna have to refer to me as Captain Bly, which is a whole other story. hehe

Blythe, my sincerest apologies! I didn't think it was right, but wasn't sure what was.


Then let me respond in a way that perhaps you and all here will understand:

I am in no way shape or form merely some generic "submisive".

I am a "named", "collared" "branded" and "owned" love slave trainned to alure and pleasure a dominant with every fiber of my being.

To tantalize his soul with my every waking breath.

And my title denotes me with such distinction in addition to the Nomina my Owner has given me.

I can asure you it is a title that does indeed tell the world I am woman now hear me roar.

Woe be to the Dominant that forgets what I am, especially if I am under his whip at the time least he find himself beguiled into thralldom at my feet instead.

Beware La Kajira.


wow... just wow. :) You have a wonderful way with words. :cheerlead



And yes, the OP was mostly playful, although the comments are very thought provoking. :)

[blythe spirit]

No need for apologies, sillypony. I was half joking, because everyone was calling me bly yesterday. Of course it's better than shortening it to BS. lol

Now as for you, you silly little deep-throating Kajira lol. This whole thread as, sillypony stated was meant to be playful; however, now that you brought it up, I, for one, would have no idea by your name alone that you are a female submissive, generic or not. lol

[denuseri]

Thats becuase I lay in wait, ready to pounce with all my submissive verve on unsuspecting dominants that happen to pass near the watering hole.

Winks lol

[blythe spirit]

Thats becuase I lay in wait, ready to pounce with all my submissive verve on unsuspecting dominants that happen to pass near the watering hole.

Winks lol

Gotcha! hehehe

[sinderella]

why should Doms and Dommes get a title to differentiate their sex, when submissives are just subs - male or female?

i don't really care. nor does it bother me when 'Dom' and 'Domme' are capitalized and 'submissive' is not. it is all part of the protocol and i find the distinctions non-troublesome and kind of erotic, actually. i never feel i am "just a sub". i feel very special and cherished as one, in fact.