how to spot an arsehole

[Pearlgem]

I have a friend on here who was treated cruelly by what turned out to be a complete arsehole of a so-called dom. Obviously she's better knowing and better off without him, but it set me wondering...

In your experience, what signs (on-line, email, phone etc) can you pick up to warn you that a Dom won't treat you right?

One good point my friend made was that players don't post much; they don't contribute to the debates or the life of the community. If they do post, it's to make frequent, superficial personal contacts.

With hindsight, what signals do you feel you should you have paid more attention to?

(Let's look out for each other, set the red flags flying to save our sisters a bit of heartache if we can.)

[Arria]

The number one red flag with me is not respecting limits, and ignoring rules (yes, from Dom side!).
Such behaviour, if accepted to begin with, will get worse and worse over time.

I had a contact with one person here who was exactly like it. I put up with the behaviour because I enjoyed the play with him so immensely (during that play, he was an altogether different character!), and there was a girl with him whom I also liked very, very well.
After a while it got too much, though, and my warnings were either not taken seriously, made fun of, or outright ignored.
In order to end it, I completely broke off all contact. To keep him away, I also had to break off all contact with the girl, which made me very sad as she was a very sweet, likeable person, and did not act as obtrusive as him at all. But as she was his prior play-partner, there was of course no possibility to break contact with him, but not her.

Anyways. The things I am talking about included: Ignoring my friendly explanation that I am doing only ONE conversation (on messenger or wherever private) at a time. If I said good-bye and went to another convo, he would keep nagging, babbling, even BUZZING, and would not stop.
He would bad-mouth any other man I liked talking to.
My number one rule from hubby (my real life hubby and only real life Dom) is that I am allowed to play online, but no real-life contact is allowed whatsoever... I explained that repeatedly... and still the other guy tried to force a dinner meeting in real life upon me (this one really pissed me off for good).
What really creeped me out was that he was ALWAYS set in invisible mode on msn - ever, at all times. And combined with this was that he not only left roughly 20 offline messages of the really stupid sort DAILY (along the lines of "I am bored", "where are you" etc... for that matter, I was at WORK, could you imagine????), but also messaged me NO MATTER WHAT TIME I checked in, and tried to keep me out of any other convo with the actions described above. I began to get the impression that he had no job, no life, no friends, and never slept, because he really was online every single time I checked in over a period of several weeks.
When I finally broke off contact (explanations would not help, as he decided to pretend not to understand what creeped me out), he tried for a period of several weeks to get messages to my attention, using other subs on here as messengers (direct contact was impossible as I had blocked him from my profile).
The one thing I was glad about was that he kept this obsessive behaviour online. He never tried to contact me in real life or at work or wherever, and I am very glad about that.

OK, I feel I am getting agitated about this. My tips for your friend would be to watch out for the following signs and attitudes:
1. ignoring set rules (like, no real-life contact or giving out of personal location details)
2. asking for a lot of personal info without giving any out himself (like asking for your job and location, but refusing to reveal anything about himself)
3. acting dumb when you express unhappiness with a current situation
4. not leaving you alone when you request it.

Oh, and I completely agree about the only-chatting and not-contributing-anything-helpful in the forums issue, completely.

Kind regards
Arria

[DowntownAmber]

I could write a list three miles long in response to this post, but I'm going to take it from a slightly different angle, if you please...

I truly think that subs know how to spot the bad apples. It's easy to see an "arsehole" if you're looking. IF you're looking...

This is not to say that some good subs don't get blindsided now and again, but the significant majority of problems that I've been witness to occur because the sub isn't bothering to screen any further than his or her own very immediate desires. No one spends time to get to know each other, the sub goes into the relationship with the goal of having their own desires fufilled and then wonders why they were treated badly by a Dom looking to get only theirs fufilled as well.

Communicate.

Can't stress that enough - spend some time determining what a D/s relationship means to each one of you. Truly, if you don't have the time to do a relationship right the first time, do you have time you pick up the pieces from doing it the wrong way?

[caligirl{Rob}]

I feel it has very little to do with the frequency of postings but more on the true character of the person. A person in any type of relationship needs to take time, "see" the person in many different lights and above all follow that inner voice. The biggest mistake I made and the most I was hurt was by ignoring that inner voice and trying to fit into what was expected. After blaming others I finally reached a point of taking much of the responsibility, in that I sensed long before that this was not a good fit. My Sarge pushes my limits, takes me though uncomfortable situations, pushes his sadistic and my masochistic limits, but is never anything but honorable. In that I mean that he shows and assumes responsibility and care in his actions and attitudes always. At the very start of our r/l relationship after knowing one another online, the honor of his true character was evident in how he treated all involved.

In looking for a bdsm relationship or any for that matter we should all be taking time. If one or more of the pair are not open to that, not open to sharing and educating each other, or should those lights and sirens go off...that is a good indication that this is not a good fit. There are ways through out time to see if someone is using many different aliases, or playing different rolls. I think to use the amount of time a person spends posting holds far less importance than in the content of the posts or more importantly the content of personal private correspondence. The intimacy of this type or again any type of relationship is only enhanced by open and in depth knowledge of your partner. In giving respect and trust expect the same in return. The title of Dom, Sir or Master does not release a person from the responsibility of their behavior anymore than the title of submissive, or slave releases a person from the responsibility of their behavior.

As in life there are unscrupulous people on all ends of the spectrum. Sometimes the most obvious red flag is the one we see flying in our own mind, and sadly too often look the other way.

[Pearlgem]

This is not to say that some good subs don't get blindsided now and again, but the significant majority of problems that I've been witness to occur because the sub isn't bothering to screen any further than his or her own very immediate desires. No one spends time to get to know each other, the sub goes into the relationship with the goal of having their own desires fufilled and then wonders why they were treated badly by a Dom looking to get only theirs fufilled as well.

Yes, Amber, that is the other side of the coin. It's not just little innocent subs being picked off but subs who are far too ready to give all when the relationship is hardly established. (It's a power exchange, so don't give away something so precious until you can be sure it'll be cherished and valued.)

Still, supposing that the sub is trying to forge a genuine relationship, what pitfalls should she look out for?

[leah06]

Sometimes people aren't assholes (that's how we spell it on this side of the pond, Pearlgem). Sometimes they're just confused, or they think the relationship is right for them and then they get additional information, just like in the vanilla world. I think it's a mistake to believe that because someone is a Dom, and assumes SOME responsibilty for your experience, and you've given him SOME power in a power exchange, that he now has responsibility for things that no one can assume responsibility for. This includes, sadly enough, your emotional well-being.

Of course, in committed loving relationships both parties assume responsibility for the other's emotional well-being, but I don't think that happens any faster, or any deeper, or any more reliably in a D/s relationship than it would in a vanilla one. I see some subs rushing to give away, not just power, but their hearts as well, and I worry for them. I worry for myself, of course, too, and I don't mean to lecture, but it's maybe good to be aware of these possibilities.

[Pearlgem]

Sometimes people aren't assholes (that's how we spell it on this side of the pond, Pearlgem). Sometimes they're just confused, or they think the relationship is right for them and then they get additional information, just like in the vanilla world. I think it's a mistake to believe that because someone is a Dom, and assumes SOME responsibilty for your experience, and you've given him SOME power in a power exchange, that he now has responsibility for things that no one can assume responsibility for. This includes, sadly enough, your emotional well-being.

Of course, in committed loving relationships both parties assume responsibility for the other's emotional well-being, but I don't think that happens any faster, or any deeper, or any more reliably in a D/s relationship than it would in a vanilla one. I see some subs rushing to give away, not just power, but their hearts as well, and I worry for them. I worry for myself, of course, too, and I don't mean to lecture, but it's maybe good to be aware of these possibilities.

I agree, rachel, that not all arseholes (that's how it's spelt properly) absolutely mean to be. They might just be ignorant or unsure or simply be biting off more than they know. Still, if you give the impression that you're experienced loving, strict, knowledgeable, etc etc, as many on here do, is that self delusion, wilful delusion, criminal delusion? Can a careful sub spot the signs?

(But I absolutely take your point, and Amber's too, that sometimes subs are just too willing to hand everything over to Doms who can't take the responsibility, and that's partly their fault. Still, there are real genuine arseholes out there who self servingly flaunt their Dom status and trifle with subs. How to spot them?)

[leah06]

Still, there are real genuine arseholes out there who self servingly flaunt their Dom status and trifle with subs. How to spot them?)

That's never happened to me, thank God, and also I've never done any cyber relationships, which is maybe what you're asking about. It's possible that someone once represented himself as having more experience than he did, and maybe wound up somewhat out of his comfort zone, but I think he was deceiving - if that's even the word - himself more than me. Look, a lot of these interactions are based on fantasy. You'd hardly spend a lot of time with someone who presented himself as unexperienced, selfish, ambivalent, and ignorant, would you? And lots of times people become what they pretend to be - for good or for ill.

So my advice, similar to others', would be to pay attention to signals, especially little ones. Is his information consistent? Are his rules similar to those that others outline here and on other sites? Does he know the difference between pushing limits and violating boundaries? As far as I'm concerned, no means no, especially at first. I've never used a safeword because I've never done the "don't, stop - don't stop" thing. (Not that I would mind, at a different stage in a relationship.) So I try to be as clear as possible in my signals and I want them respected. I think that even a little bit of inconsistent stories, or being pushed when it's not appropriate, would cause me to back out.

And that's the other thing. A lot of these interactions are based on fantasy, but if the other person is behaving poorly you need to be able to step back from the fantasy and recognize it. Before someone gets hurt.

[thepast]

You know what the best way to figure it out is? ASK AROUND. I know that sounds silly, but trust me, there are people here who have been around long enough to know just about everyone or something about everyone. They are great sources of information, and might just give you that "gut check" you need. Also, if you ask around & no one knows anything about your person, it's probably something to take note of as well--it isn't a bad thing persay, just that this isn't where they make their home.

Subs have equal responsibility as Dominants to find the right partner. Why? Because searching for a partner has nothing to do with power exchange, nor does it have to do with submission--it's finding what's right for you. When you *do* find that person, you will know it--you will connect, you will just "feel right." If you don't get that, then move on-- it isn't the right match.

People stay FAR FAR too long in relationships that aren't working, because they have this fear of leaving their partner--whether it's fear of lonliness, fear of losing status, fear of losing the respect/commeraderie that having a partner brings... but I'll tell you what-- I personally have a lot more respect for those who take the leap & leave their partner if it isn't working. [Now, I am not saying vanilla marriage-type of situations--I am talking about the o/l situation.]

I can't explain the amount of name changes I do for folks. I call them "velcro collars" because 9x out of 10, they get removed after about a week or two, when the "fantasy" wears off, and the people realize that eh, they enjoy hanging out & playing around together, but that's all there really is to it.

I think it all begins with exploring what YOU really want out of a relationship. Be honest with yourself: how much time do you have to dedicate to it? are you willing to move from o/l to r/l? are you willing to divulge private details of your life? are you willing to trust? These aren't easy questions, and they take a lot of time to really think through, but the process is well worth it. You will find yourself more assertive & able to know what you are looking for, so that you can communicate that need to any potential partners. It isn't *wrong* to be looking for just play or looking for just a casual thing--but be honest with yourself & your partner!

Being a strong submissive has nothing to do with bowing to every Dominant you see. It has EVERYTHING to do with respecting yourself as well as others--have enough self-respect to take the time you need to really think through the relationship & your needs/wants.

Submissives like to play the role of the "victim" in breakups... but I will tell you what-- most of the time it's 50-50-- as they say, it takes "two to tango." I am not saying that sometimes there aren't cases where the Dominant is at fault--but there are JUST as many cases where, had the submissive had really done the "leg work" before diving into the deep end head-first, they would have found that it wasn't the right relationship for them.

Cynical? I don't think so... I've been on these boards longer then about 95% of the folks here (don't post back to tell me you've been here longer--I can tell in your user info lmao and I honestly just don't care that much). My point is that I have seen just about everything. And so I speak from that "experience" when I say-- GO SLOWLY. RELAX. TAKE YOUR TIME. It will pay dividends in the long run.

As for specific people here being "bad"... I think it's all in the eye of the beholder, no? There's someone out there for everyone, and everyone has someone out there--we just don't always look at it from that perspective.

[DowntownAmber]

If you're "self servingly" flaunting your Dom side, as you stated, that's what I'd look for as a sure sign of an "arsehole."

D/s relationships work very much like vanilla ones do in this regard: be proud of what you have to offer, as it's a refelction of your values, but don't tell me why I should want what you have. Present yourself, then let me choose. I'll present myself, and let you choose as well.

Let's have a little Readers Digest Condensed version of two possible exchanges between two single and searching folks - we'll call them "Dick" and "Jane." :D

Non aresehole-ish exchange:

D: Hi, I'm Dick. I'm a single guy with no kids but a great career that keeps me really busy. Work is super important to me. I also wield a mean crop, enjoy collars and cuffs, and want a sub that is okay being a "traditional" stay at home woman for me to take care of. I find you attractive, Jane.

J: You're also very attractive to me, Dick, and I also love crops, collars and cuffs. However, I'm just ready to graduate from school and I would like to work for awhile after I graduate before settling down.

D: Well, let's get to know each other a little better before we tackle that, and see if there's enough attraction to warrant further discussion. If there is, we can discuss a compromise.

J: I know for sure I want a career of my own, and kids.

D: Okay then, we'll see you around and let's still chat as friends.

And then... Arsehole-ish exchange:

D: Hi, I'm Dick. I'm a single guy with no kids but a great career that keeps me really busy. Work is super important to me. I also wield a mean crop, enjoy collars and cuffs, and want a sub that is okay being a "traditional" stay at home woman for me to take care of. I find you attractive, Jane.

J: You're also very attractive to me, Dick, and I also love crops, collars and cuffs. However, I'm just ready to graduate from school and I would like to work for awhile after I graduate before settling down.

D: Well, you should want to please a Dom first, and you'll come to realize that me taking care of you is all you need. Let's play, and I'm sure after being my sub for awhile you'll come around to my way of thinking.

J: Well... I mean, maybe I could give it a try. I mean, I want a Dom and you're a Dom so. Um, no, this isn't working for me.

D: What? But you're my sub and the sub is supposed to do what I want!

And so on and so forth...

[Pearlgem]

You know what the best way to figure it out is? ASK AROUND. I know that sounds silly, but trust me, there are people here who have been around long enough to know just about everyone or something about everyone. They are great sources of information, and might just give you that "gut check" you need. Also, if you ask around & no one knows anything about your person, it's probably something to take note of as well--it isn't a bad thing persay, just that this isn't where they make their home.

Thank you, delia. It's good to know there are more experienced people here who will help you if you ask. It's good to be part of such a community.

[leah06]

Yes. On the other hand, maybe you don't want to share your business with everyone. Not me, of course. Clearly I love sharing my business. I just meant, hypothetically.

[thepast]

*laughs* True, rachel... but after a while, smiles, we generally get a "feel" for people... shrugs... it's just part of the gig, I guess.

[leah06]

Thanks, Delia, but I meant the sub who wants the information. Maybe she doesn't want to advertise that she's thinking of connecting with a particular person, for whatever reason.

[thepast]

*smiles* she can always PM someone with a little discretion that wouldn't post it all over the boards :)

[jeanne]

Yes. On the other hand, maybe you don't want to share your business with everyone. Not me, of course. Clearly I love sharing my business. I just meant, hypothetically.

You, rachel? Nahhhhhhh. :D

[jeanne]

Seriously though...

Red flag for me:

1. Someone who is incapable of admitting when they're wrong. Or when they do - they are grudging about it.
2. Someone who has no sense of humor.
3. Someone who is weak.
4. Someone who comes across a certain way - but will deny it when asked about it.
5. Someone who tries to Dom every sub that he/she encounters. Basically, shows a lack of respect.
6. Someone who says they will 'fix you'. I am an adult, thank you, and I will manage my life myself. If there is any 'fixing' to be done, I will see the appropriate qualified professional.

Okay, this is turning into a rant. I haven't been here long in the grand scheme of things, and don't do chat, but I pay attention... and have seen some pretty awful relationships. And some really awful Doms.

[sadiej]

Even in the best of situations you can still get burned. A poor choice that breaks trust but is not necessarily bad character. I have had that happen as well. A Dom that we had a great connection, good trust, boundaries and everything seemed fine. But he made a choice to be dishonest and that broke the trust we had achieved. It was was unsalvageable.

It is a delicate balance I find. I don't want to be cynical and distrusting of everyone. I take people and face value, and give them enough rope to run with.. or hang themselves with. Time eventually tells.

I think sometimes it is easy for subs to get "starry-eyed" and miss the signs as well. They want a Dom so badly that they overlook small details and become entralled with the idea of being owned, without considering the cost of who owns them.

Dishonesty and bad character have other symptoms as well. Inconsistencies, missing timelines, etc. Even players cannot mask that for very long. So I think it is about the communication and consistency of a person that helps me to know if they are real or not. Does what they say and what they do always add up.

Just because there are players out there does not mean that I am going to become a suspicious, distrusting person. I can be wise and careful, but at some point you have to be willing to risk as well. As long as those investments of risk and reward are equal on the the part of both parties in the relationship. . . an exchange.

[leah06]

You, rachel? Nahhhhhhh. :D

Back at you, Jeanne.

[DIXIE LASS]

Watch for signs of an uncontrolled temper. I guess because I ask so many questions I've had them get impatient, then irritable, then angry, then furious, and just blow up and disconnect me from an instant messenger or the phone. ROTFLMFAO. (Of course, I admit I have a wee, teeny problem with doing what I'm told without an explanation.) And, I like to take the time to get to know them and them get to know a little about me. One guy, not long ago, before disconnecting me from messenger, hollered "Are you gonna refight the Civil War or are you going to fuck?" Well, of course I knew right then he was a damn-yankee because no self-respecting Southerner would say "Civil War." We all know it wasn't any such thing. The proper term is "The War Between the States" or "The War of Northern Agression." But, I'm rambling again, kinda Chatty-Cathy, which is what gets 'em mad to begin with. But ladies, now listen to me, if they slam down the phone or cut you off messenger, you don't want 'em anyway. They have an uncontrollable temper and they are registered, certifiable 100% assholes/arseholes.

DIXIE

[damyanti]

1. An absolute red flag is...those who send you PMs within the first 24-48 hours of joining the Forum. They monitor new members and hope to get to them while they are most vulnerable, before they get some good advice, confidence, some experience and make real friends. This is a major creep alert!

2. Those who send you Friendship (or Yahoo) requests when you had no interaction with them, (neither in chat, forum posts or even PMs).

3. If they whine.

4. If they get angry easily...especially after you catch them lying.

5. You just dont like the tone of him....your gut tells you he is a fake. Trust your instinct.


The following are not necessarily major alerts, but they are to me personally.

I dont like it when they call me names (girl, slut, dear...) when we have no such familiarity established.

They talk almost exclusively in abbreviations. I am not an unreasonable person, I make allowances for: lol, p.s., btw, but when he appears to be unfamiliar with the concept of whole sentences and his idea of getting to know you is "asl" (age, sex, location...yeah, I didnt know that either, :rolleyes:)...it may not mean that they are a bad person, but it means we dont have much in common.

Infantilism (I mean in vanilla sense, not as a fetish), like I said this is just my personal beef...but I have zero interest in someone who cant hold a normal conversation.

Almost petulant, underlying expectation of cyber sex, within three minutes of meeting.

Requests for picture within first ten minutes...and if you say no, they ask for it again ten minutes later. Sorry, but I am not that stupid or lax about my own personal safety. And in either case, I dont want someone who wants me just for my looks. I have a three month rule...most fakes evaporate by then....if we are still talking after that time, and I like you, then you will get to see my picture, if not, then you have no need for it.


I used "he" for easy writing, but this applies to he/she, dom/me/switch/sub equally!

[lucy]

I'm not looking for a Dom so the problem of meeting an asshole isn't that big. And playing with assholes (btw, the correct term and spelling is "Arschloch") can be fun too :D

I'm not sure there are hard signs for telling immediately if someone is an asshole. Communication via chat and messages leave ample room for misunderstandings, at least in the beginning. They shouldn't persist, though.
I think the best thing to do is not to rush it and listen to your gut feeling. Time will separate the assholes from the gems.


2. Those who send you Friendship (or Yahoo) requests when you had no interaction with them, (neither in chat, forum posts or even PMs).
Oh my god. Just hate them. And my friggin' guilt-complex makes me writing them an elaborate apology why i rejected their friendship request when i just shouldn't give a damn about it.

[Arria]

Wow, this thread is really evolving, and truly useful! I think it might be good enough to become a sticky, but that´s for d to decide ;-)

@ jeanne: Oh my God, you summed up all my real life criteria for finding a partner! *laughs* And it took me 5 years of search to find the right one! The critical point was usually "too weak". Yes, I am stubborn, and I need a man who can handle that without feeling his ego threatened by it.

@ delia: Asking around with the regulars is basically a good thing - also, if not even more so, in real life. I know several acquaintances of my hubby, they had all known him for years, so when they told me he was ok and none of his women ever spoke bad about him after a break-up, this was a great help in building my trust in him.
However, this also has a down-side: I am not interested in being a member of a local "scene", but I witnessed wayyyyyyyyyyyy more than once a certain thing happening: A couple broke up, and straight afterwards the sub tried to ruin the dom´s reputation by badmouthing him, calling him harmful/dangerous/uncontrolled etc. etc. and spreading the info by all available ways. (What was usually behind it was a dom who ended the relationship because it did not work for him, and the sub felt her pride hurt by it.)
So - yes, do ask around. But by all means consider the source of your information.

@ caligirl: Your point about listening to your inner voice is probably the most important of all. More often than not people realize they had a bad feeling about the one they had a nasty experience with, to begin with. I myself could have spared me the most horrid relationship/experience I ever had, if I had followed my inner voice, which strongly disliked him upon the very first look.
However, I was dumb/naive enough to give that guy a chance, because he had not DONE anything to me in order to deserve that disgust (he fully justified it later, though).

@ damyanti: I like people who ask questions. And asking questions used to be what drove potential doms up the walls upon meeting me. *g*
Hubby was the only one who NEVER got impatient with me for it, and who always encourages me in my search of information. Which was one of the most important reasons for me to engage in a relationship with him to begin with, and which was one of my reasons for marrying him. *g*

@ lucy: I hate those "friend requests" also. My way to cope with them was to include a sentence into my profile text, which says, I will not accept a friend request from anyone who has not at least spoken once with me in chat, or corresponded with me otherwise.
If people still send me request without having spoken to me, I know they did not even bother to read my profile properly, and that makes me wonder why on Earth they would want to be my "friend".
I even have only 13 friends on Myspace and dislike "friend collectors" who only want to add you because they want to have 2,579,876 friends, or just because they like your profile pic. Ummmm, hello?

[Ozme52]

1. An absolute red flag is...those who send you PMs within the first 24-48 hours of joining the Forum. They monitor new members and hope to get to them while they are most vulnerable, before they get some good advice, confidence, some experience and make real friends. This is a major creep alert! 48 Hours!!! I'm waiting way too long!!


The following are not necessarily major alerts, but they are to me personally.

I dont like it when they call me names (girl, slut, dear...) when we have no such familiarity established. ooops. ;)

Requests for picture within first ten minutesMust remember to wait eleven minutes...


<<==checks watch....


<<==checks watch again...


Hi girl! How about a photo? :blurp_ani

...and if you say no, they ask for it again ten minutes later.
<<==checks watch....


<<==checks watch again...




Also watch out for folk who want to know about your financials or your living arrangements. Those are rarely appropriate for any early-on conversation.

Watch out for inexperienced masters looking for inexperienced subs. I mean, it can work, but why put your trust in someone who knows no more than you do?

And the red flag that I hearken to most, when talking to people at my munch, are those who claim to be leaving their spouse but can't meet you except when they should be golfing... or some other similarly conspicuous time slot.

[damyanti]

Well, I did try to pick your shoes, so I guess I will make special allowances for you, Oz. :D

Besides, everyone knows you are harmless. ;)

[DIXIE LASS]

From Damyanti:

An absolute red flag is...those who send you PMs within the first 24-48 hours of joining the Forum. They monitor new members and hope to get to them while they are most vulnerable, before they get some good advice, confidence, some experience and make real friends. This is a major creep alert!


If they get angry easily...especially after you catch them lying.

You just dont like the tone of him....your gut tells you he is a fake. Trust your instinct.

I dont like it when they call me names (girl, slut, dear...) when we have no such familiarity established.

They talk almost exclusively in abbreviations. I am not an unreasonable person, I make allowances for: lol, p.s., btw, but when he appears to be unfamiliar with the concept of whole sentences and his idea of getting to know you is "asl" (age, sex, location...yeah, I didnt know that either, )...it may not mean that they are a bad person, but it means we dont have much in common.

Infantilism (I mean in vanilla sense, not as a fetish), like I said this is just my personal beef...but I have zero interest in someone who cant hold a normal conversation.

Requests for picture within first ten minutes...and if you say no, they ask for it again ten minutes later. Sorry, but I am not that stupid or lax about my own personal safety.
Damyanti's newbie friends need to pay attention. The seven rules above are excellent advice.

From Damyanti:

Those who send you Friendship requests when you had no interaction with them, (neither in chat, forum posts or even PMs).

This one I might argue with. Some new members are too shy and reserved to go into chat or do any posting. Therefore, they really aren't interacting with anyone. To me, the friendship request serves as a "notice" that someone might be interested. The new member can then check out their profile, their prior posts, etc. and decide if they feel a mutual interest and want to explore it further or run like hell. Many of you have expressed extreme irritation with this habit of wholesale friendship requests but I don't see it as a bad thing and it doesn't bother me. Additionally, a "good" guy who sends one may also be very shy and reserved. This may be as bold an advance as he is able to make.

Dittos on using male nouns and pronouns. Overall, Damyanti's post is a really good summary.


DIXIE

[Ozme52]

besides, everyone knows you are harmless. ;)

lmao

[thrall]

unfortunately there are more of the bad one's out there then we would like to think...

Listen to your gut!
Watch what they do in the forum
Check the details/is the story consistent.....
Ask very hard questions.....and see how they are answered....and i mean whopper questions!.....
Talk to other people and see what they have to say about whomever you are thinking about...
Is emotional blackmail employed to get you to do things you are uncomfortable with.....big red flag!


common sense......

[c_a_i]

the problem is that it is so rare that it can easily be called the uncommon sense :nana:

[Lisais mine]

how do you spot an asshole? I don't know any hard and fast rules, but when did Dom become a title and not a predisposition? just because someone gets off on turnig somebody on, dosen't mean they can do that from the first conversation. that in itself is an example of assholery to me.

You just don't start off a conversation that way. and i think that any decent human being knows it. if you are interested in developing a relationship with someone, well, you might want to know what they look like- the online thing is a bit weird to me- but if someone isn't polite, involving you in a real conversation, trying to see if they have a connection with you- then they are most definitly an asshole, and not worth your time.

I think that a D/s relationship needs so deep a level of trust that you have to have that first.

[BryansGrrrl]

You just don't start off a conversation that way. and i think that any decent human being knows it. Although the conversation this morning about how grabbing some random woman's hair in a bar as a "pick up line" was enjoyable, I do have to agree. ;)

[Lisais mine]

heh :)
well, it WAS your idea...

[DIXIE LASS]

when did Dom become a title and not a predisposition?


Love it! A memorable quote. Thank you.

DIXIE :cheerlead

[BryansGrrrl]

LOL, it was my idea, and I still think it's funny. But we both know it was a joke. I'd still LOVE to see the look on the woman's face, though. *giggle*

[Lisais mine]

We will try it out when i meet your friend from Arizona....

[lucy]

@ lucy: I hate those "friend requests" also. My way to cope with them was to include a sentence into my profile text, which says, I will not accept a friend request from anyone who has not at least spoken once with me in chat, or corresponded with me otherwise.
If people still send me request without having spoken to me, I know they did not even bother to read my profile properly, and that makes me wonder why on Earth they would want to be my "friend".
I even have only 13 friends on Myspace and dislike "friend collectors" who only want to add you because they want to have 2,579,876 friends, or just because they like your profile pic. Ummmm, hello?
thanks, included such a line in my profile too, but it didn't help ;)

[thir]

In your experience, what signs (on-line, email, phone etc) can you pick up to warn you that a Dom won't treat you right?


First of all, I think it important to be aware of what one is looking for in a Dom/me. 'Not treat you right' can also mean 'not compatible', and there are many ways and interests.

Example, a Dom who says "It is all about me" may be just what makes you heart tick, or it may make you feel real bad.

Also, as others have said, get rid of set ideas of how things 'should' be, but listen to your own inner voice. If the Dom/me in question does or demands something you cannot handle or which makes you really uncomfortable, I would say do not, but not, get into internal discussions about what a sub 'should' do, just listen to your voice and communicate the problem, or get out of there!

Maybe it need not be said to beware of the strutters, the "kneel bitch" types after 10 min conversation, and the types who claim that if you are a sub you just submit, period, or you are not 'for real'.

Another thought that comes to mind is that at times, when sub needs are really really pressing, it can be hard to think straight. Please hang on to your head, because the sharks out there are likely to recognize that condition and take advantage. Take you time to get to know people, however much your system yearns for a Dom/me.

The rest I think it sort of common sense and experience..I do not think you can always know.

[tessa]

In your experience, what signs (on-line, email, phone etc) can you pick up to warn you that a Dom won't treat you right?



If a dom ever says, "I'm polyamorous, but I don't allow my subs to be", don't just run from the building, but set it on fire as you leave.

[Pearlgem]

Is anyone reading this thread and thinking,'Oh shit, that describes my Dom!' Did you know really or is anything here a bit of an eye opener?

[Lisais mine]

If a dom ever says, "I'm polyamorous, but I don't allow my subs to be", don't just run from the building, but set it on fire as you leave.

really? how do these people even get subs to talk to them?

[tessa]

really? how do these people even get subs to talk to them?

I have yet to figure out why any of those trolls get even a passing nod. A punch, now that I could understand. :rolleyes:

Maybe naive desperation plays a part?

[tessa]

Is anyone reading this thread and thinking,'Oh shit, that describes my Dom!'

I really hope so.

[DIXIE LASS]

If a dom ever says, "I'm polyamorous, but I don't allow my subs to be", don't just run from the building, but set it on fire as you leave.

I can think of something else I'd like to set fire to when I hear this one. This one has to be the lowest of the low, the MOST unforgivable, beyond the pale, a mortal sin.

DIXIE

[leah06]

I can think of something else I'd like to set fire to when I hear this one. This one has to be the lowest of the low, the MOST unforgivable, beyond the pale, a mortal sin.

DIXIE

Why? Lots of other things in D/s relationships are not equal; why is this a bottom-line requirement? In fact, if you read the polyamory thread, there are quite a few subs who say something like, I belong to Master alone; Master does as He pleases. This wouldn't suit me, but I don't see why it's totally different from a lot of other inequalities in these interactions.

[Zarine13]

So Monday night I was conversing with a Dom, who I have been talking to on and off since I signed up. I thought he was a decent guy.

I was also reading this thread when i was talking to him. He asked me to do something rather time consuming and I said no, for the simple reason that I had to go to bed shortly (the next day I was taking 2 finals, I refuse to NOT get a good nights sleep before finals) he started to say some of the very things from this thread.

My first thought was he was teasing me because he could see what thread I was reading. Then it became apparent he had no idea what I was reading.

I finally had to get snippy with him for him to take my no as a real answer (yeah by that time I was kinda pissed anyway so it wasn;t hard to do :p) I got a terse reply and haven't heard from him since.

So yeah, not all arseholes show themselves right away either.

[DIXIE LASS]

If a dom ever says, "I'm polyamorous, but I don't allow my subs to be", don't just run from the building, but set it on fire as you leave.


I can think of something else I'd like to set fire to when I hear this one. This one has to be the lowest of the low, the MOST unforgivable, beyond the pale, a mortal sin.

DIXIE




Why? Lots of other things in D/s relationships are not equal; why is this a bottom-line requirement? In fact, if you read the polyamory thread, there are quite a few subs who say something like, I belong to Master alone; Master does as He pleases. This wouldn't suit me, but I don't see why it's totally different from a lot of other inequalities in these interactions.


Rache,
Why do you always give me a hard time?

1. I'm speaking from a personal perspective. I'm only agreeing with Tessa.
Apparently this is a "bottom-line requirement" for both Tessa and me.

2. I'm not much of a sub to begin with and I guess this is one of the reasons
why I'm not. If there are some out there willing to accept this, I could
care less, but I don't pretend to be able to conceive of the way lots of
subs think and I'm certainly not looking around for a D/s relationship.

3. This particular attitude is just particularly outrageous and offensive. It
seems to me to be the highest kind of selfishness. Unadulterated
arrogance. Maybe it's because menage between me and only males is
MY fantasy. Why the hell should I give that up? After a
crack like this, an Ass-Dom-Hole would be lucky if I even let him
participate.

DIXIE

[Ozme52]

If a dom ever says, "I'm polyamorous, but I don't allow my subs to be", don't just run from the building, but set it on fire as you leave.


Is anyone reading this thread and thinking,'Oh shit, that describes my Dom!' Did you know really or is anything here a bit of an eye opener?


I can think of something else I'd like to set fire to when I hear this one. This one has to be the lowest of the low, the MOST unforgivable, beyond the pale, a mortal sin.

DIXIE

I think I'm safe. :rolleyes:

[DIXIE LASS]

I think I'm safe. :rolleyes:

Oz, you sure have a lot more confidence in your tractability than I do. :4:

[Ozme52]

Oz, you sure have a lot more confidence in your tractability than I do. :4:

Huh? You sure you're using the word tractable correctly?

I don't see how being open to letting my girl play without me makes me tractable.

[DIXIE LASS]

Huh? You sure you're using the word tractable correctly?

I don't see how being open to letting my girl play without me makes me tractable.

I know exactly what tractable means. I was trying to say that I wouldn't consider you tractable at all, just the opposite in fact. Hence, you might have confidence in your affability, congeniality, amiablility, etc., .......but if I crossed you I think I would be screaming, "Katy, bar the door". It was meant as a tongue-in-cheek joke. Sorry if it didn't come out that way.

[leah06]

You know, I do understand why people object to the Dom-with-a-harem. I do myself, for myself. I guess I just didn't see why this was a red flag of assholery. Some subs seem to be looking for this kind of arrangement, and God bless 'em, I say. After reading these posts, I guess I would say, an asshole of a Dom is anyone who tries to convince you that he meets your agenda but secretly doesn't. It's not the fact that he doesn't meet your agenda that makes him an asshole - that's how we spell it here, Pearlgem - it's that he hides or disguises it.

You want to be Girl Number Seven? Go for it. You want the one who's married/won't call you/bosses you around/won't let go - fine. But if that's not what you want, then keep your eyes and ears open to see if he's what he says he is. And actually, not to burst anyone's bubble, but that's really your responsibility, not his. You need to be sure that he's right for you, and you need to pay attention. Of course people shouldn't lie to each other, but lots of these problems arise not from lies but just from people not heeding the warnings.

IMHO.

[lucy]

Isn't exactly on-topic, but it's a sign you're talking with the wrong guy: If you're chatting with someone and you just know that he's at the same time having conversations with at least 3 other people.
Back when i still was interested a wee little tiny bit in getting to know Doms for more than just chatting, one even called me the wrong name once. Probably got all his chat-windows mixed up :rolleyes:
At least i knew that i didn't need to bother with that guy anymore.

[Arria]

I know of several cases in real life, where a Dom has several subs, but the subs are exclusive with him. All parties want it that way. In that case, it is ok.

It would not work for me as I am jealous in a relationship, though.

However, if the "Dom" in question tries to tell you
- this is normal / everybody does it that way
- you have no right to oppose that
- if you oppose it, you are not a genuine sub,

BURN THE HOUSE!

As I already said elsewhere, what is OK in a relationship is ONLY to be decided by the partners involved, NEVER by anyone else.
BOTH (or all) partners, though. Always. Never by the Dom alone.

What still escapes me is: What sort of Dom would want an unhappy sub?
Or, what sort of sub would want to be with a Dom who does not give a fuck about her emotional well-being?

[tusayan]

1. An absolute red flag is...those who send you PMs within the first 24-48 hours of joining the Forum. They monitor new members and hope to get to them while they are most vulnerable, before they get some good advice, confidence, some experience and make real friends. This is a major creep alert!

2. Those who send you Friendship (or Yahoo) requests when you had no interaction with them, (neither in chat, forum posts or even PMs).

3. If they whine.

4. If they get angry easily...especially after you catch them lying.

5. You just dont like the tone of him....your gut tells you he is a fake. Trust your instinct.


The following are not necessarily major alerts, but they are to me personally.

I dont like it when they call me names (girl, slut, dear...) when we have no such familiarity established.

They talk almost exclusively in abbreviations. I am not an unreasonable person, I make allowances for: lol, p.s., btw, but when he appears to be unfamiliar with the concept of whole sentences and his idea of getting to know you is "asl" (age, sex, location...yeah, I didnt know that either, :rolleyes:)...it may not mean that they are a bad person, but it means we dont have much in common.

Infantilism (I mean in vanilla sense, not as a fetish), like I said this is just my personal beef...but I have zero interest in someone who cant hold a normal conversation.

Almost petulant, underlying expectation of cyber sex, within three minutes of meeting.

Requests for picture within first ten minutes...and if you say no, they ask for it again ten minutes later. Sorry, but I am not that stupid or lax about my own personal safety. And in either case, I dont want someone who wants me just for my looks. I have a three month rule...most fakes evaporate by then....if we are still talking after that time, and I like you, then you will get to see my picture, if not, then you have no need for it.


I used "he" for easy writing, but this applies to he/she, dom/me/switch/sub equally!

Pardon the interruption, but some idiot just tried to pick ME up using the asl line on chat. I didn't recognize the handle, reported it as spam. Made me think of this thread.

Turns out the dude is a hetero male "Dom". Ahh...the irony. Wonder how he would have reacted if I told him I couldn't wait to see him in a shinju? :rolleyes:

[Ozme52]

Isn't exactly on-topic, but it's a sign you're talking with the wrong guy: If you're chatting with someone and you just know that he's at the same time having conversations with at least 3 other people.
Back when i still was interested a wee little tiny bit in getting to know Doms for more than just chatting, one even called me the wrong name once. Probably got all his chat-windows mixed up :rolleyes:
At least i knew that i didn't need to bother with that guy anymore.

I have no experience chatting with doms, but don't think subs don't do this and do it a lot. Only instead of talking to other doms, they chat it up among themselves.

So... I don't think this particular trait is an indicator of bad behavior as much as it's a sign of the times. People take cell calls at dinner functions, and have no qualms about interupting a face to face conversation to take a call.

But I do think, when flirting, one should have my full undivided attention... as I expect to have yours. :rolleyes:

[Ozme52]

Pardon the interruption, but some idiot just tried to pick ME up using the asl line on chat. I didn't recognize the handle, reported it as spam. Made me think of this thread.

Turns out the dude is a hetero male "Dom". Ahh...the irony. Wonder how he would have reacted if I told him I couldn't wait to see him in a shinju? :rolleyes:

LOL. I had my name changed from ozme to Ozme. That stopped the private a/s/l requests by the wannabe doms looking for subs. It also gave me an appreciation of what the new submissives go through when they join our site.