How do I talk to Mr. Vanilla?

[soledesire]

Hi,

I'm new here, with a question that I hope one of you incredibly wise people can help me with. I've known for a long time -- actually, I can't remember not knowing -- that I am a sub. However, given a variety of reallly quite boring circumstances, I've never had the opportunity to explore that in RL or virtually. I'm in a very long-term relationship with a great guy who demonstrates little or no interest in this kind of play, much less a lifestyle. Of course, as mentioned in an earlier post, I've never actually brought it up, other than asking him to do specific things in limited circumstances. (He did them, but it was more a humoring me type of thing.) So, in order to facillitate communication about this subject, how do I bring it up? I mean, it's not like I can just say "You know, really what I'd like is for you to take total control of our intimate life and make me grovel." Right? What if he says no? What if he laughs? What if he asks me what I mean and I don't exactly know how to explain it?

Any suggestions you might have would be really appreciated.

Soledesire

[Master514]

That's brilliant... you say you're a sub deep inside which basically can't live as such, so anyone around you might mistake you for "vanilla" type.

You never talked seriously about this with him, therefore not knowing if just like you he's a dom deep inside, and you call him Mr. Vanilla :)

You go girl! :)

[soledesire]

Oh, I'm sorry, maybe I didn't give enough details or say this correctly. The very boring circumstances have to do with entering a monogamous relationship at a very early age -- well before most women/girls of my millieu were even supposed to admit to enjoying SEX, much less having any specific preferences about it. So it wasn't like something I had a choice to explore beforehand, just something I wanted and didn't even have a whole lot of words for. I guess I figured we'd get to it eventually, only eventually seems to now be here and we haven't gotten to it. Does that make better sense?

And I have kind of dropped hints, so I doubt he's missed it, but we just seem to be dancing around the issue. I just wondered if anyone else had been in this situation, but maybe I'm just remarkably inept.

For the record, I used the term "Mr. Vanilla" in a descriptive, rather than normative, sense.

[AndrewBlack]

Hello, perhaps if you could say a little more about yourself, fill in your profile for example, more useful advice could be offered.

If you have only had one relationship, how do you know that it is the right one for you? Wouldn't you be happier coming home to someone who will force you to behave like a slut or a slave?

Try being open and if he dosen't want it you have to make a very difficult decision. Which do you want more? On the plus side remember that there are a LOT of very elegible, albeit seriously perverted, men out there:D

[Mobius]

Opening up lines of comunication can be very dificault. I under stand your delema. You love him and do not want to have him think badly of you by these desires. What I would recomend is a weekend alone together. If you have kids find a sitter go to a hotel. Have some intimet time together. Just talk, ask him what he whould want. You may find that his feelings are not that far from your own. I think most men would love to just through there mate over the couch and do her like a big dog. But he has the same problem that you do and that is Fear:

Fear of what he will think
Fear of what he would say
Fear that he may not love you any more
Fear that he is disapointed in you.

I am sure that he has the same fears as you do.
Good luck and hope you get some time together soon.
Moby

[SirW]

Hi,

I'm new here, with a question that I hope one of you incredibly wise people can help me with. I've known for a long time -- actually, I can't remember not knowing -- that I am a sub. However, given a variety of reallly quite boring circumstances, I've never had the opportunity to explore that in RL or virtually. I'm in a very long-term relationship with a great guy who demonstrates little or no interest in this kind of play, much less a lifestyle. Of course, as mentioned in an earlier post, I've never actually brought it up, other than asking him to do specific things in limited circumstances. (He did them, but it was more a humoring me type of thing.) So, in order to facillitate communication about this subject, how do I bring it up?
Any suggestions you might have would be really appreciated.
Soledesire

The one problem about asking for advice is that most times people will give it, whether it is good, bad or just plain ugly. I have insewrted a couple of lines below that I wrote to another woman seeking her submissive soul. Hopefully it will give you some direction. Feel free to email me if you wish more one on one discussion.

It is not selfish or wrong to wish to be the "one" we believe we are. Unfortunately, your partner seems to not be one that may understand. You need to communicate your desires to Him, if you truly care and love Him. If He has the same intense feelings he will try to understand and work with you. The key is to figure out how to cope and to allow yourself, and your body to surface and to be come what you have always been destined to be, a loving, caring, fiery, craving being, who needs to be submissive for her true soul to shine.

I will be honest and tell you it is not easy, and sometimes seems to be just so high a cost, it would be easier to just deny your submissive being and let the other things (work, family, etc..) dominate you. Some women in your circumstances (trying to assert their submissive self) do deny themselves, feeling it is best to put the needs of others before their own. In a quirky sort of way some women feel this is kind of submissive, but when you really look at it, it is more a martyr complex than a submissive. Unfortunately, a submissive woman will come to regret this in the future, and will resent those things that they feel have been responsible for causing them to deny their core being.

SirW

[jaeangel]

I will be honest and tell you it is not easy, and sometimes seems to be just so high a cost, it would be easier to just deny your submissive being and let the other things (work, family, etc..) dominate you. Some women in your circumstances (trying to assert their submissive self) do deny themselves, feeling it is best to put the needs of others before their own. In a quirky sort of way some women feel this is kind of submissive, but when you really look at it, it is more a martyr complex than a submissive. Unfortunately, a submissive woman will come to regret this in the future, and will resent those things that they feel have been responsible for causing them to deny their core being. [/B]
SirW
I'm a submissive woman married to, and have children with, a vanilla man. Yes, it's hard, I won't deny that. Fortunately for me, my hubby, while he may not understand why I have submissive urges, is willing to indulge them to a point.
I had a bad experience some years back with a Dominant who was really just an abusive son of a *. It left me in the hospital almost dead from a brush with anaphylactic shock. I avoided 'the life' after that, buried all of my urges deep down inside, and found my husband. He is my soulmate, in all senses except for my desire for extreme sexual sensations. Which he has little interest in giving. I love him, and we now have two beautiful boys together, and divorce is not an option. Not because of religious or moral convictions, but because I can't imagine my life without him.
Lately we have been discussing the possibility of my finding a female dominant to submit to; hubby is unwilling to share me with a male dominant, but I'm bi, so a female dominant will work for me. We're still only talking about it; but I understand, with his level of posessiveness, that he truly loves me enough to let me find fulfilment under my terms. That is what shows me how much he loves me, more than anything else.
Find someone you can't imagine life without; if he is into 'the life' as you are, go for it. If he isn't, hopefully he will love you enough to discuss other options with you.
It's not the best answer, by any means, but I hope it helps. There are some who will condemn me for burying my submissive soul deep inside myself; but I made my choices, and I don't regret a single one of them. I can't. I wake up every morning beside my husband and I thank the Goddess for what She has given me.

[onlyforhim4ever]

Castlerealm has an extensive selection of articles including one in their 'library' called "Introducing your mate to D/s", "Dom me, dammit", and some others as well. It would be useful if you haven't already to take a look at those.

http://www.castlerealm.com/library/library.shtml

Many men like being dominant but I think the biggest thing to keep in mind, that if you really want a Dom/bf to LIKE it and WANT it and CONTINUE to do it, is for them to develop rituals/a style that THEY like rather than what Dom #357 likes.

I think a lot of men would like to be able to make their women, say, always wear certain lingerie/underwear/apparel that turns them on. And maybe they love seeing you on all fours, think school girls are a big turn on, and would love for you to learn how to deep throat. Basically, there are things even the most average joe gets turned on by, that they would have ALL the time if they could make their woman do it.

It's just a matter of taking those things to a different level... A Dom who requires that you present yourself to him naked with your head down, arms extended, hips in the air. In public he picks for you his favorite dress of yours with no bra or panties on so he can touch you whenever he wants. Part of your training will be to learn to deep throat, as it is a way to demonstrate your desire to please him and show your submission to him. One of your first scenes with him will be a schoolmaster/schoolgirl scene where you can be the slutty schoolgirl who gets reprimanded and punished with a ruler.

So those rather average things can be quite easily be made to feel more D/s for you if he just added a bit of structure. This taste of it may leave him wanting more power and to try D/s or it may just be a good compromise for the two of you. I would DEFINITELY try to talk to him and maybe show him some erotic stories with light D/s stuff in them and see if they are a turn on (www.literotica.com has a BDSM section and the stories are all free with no registration needed). Maybe pick out 5 stories you think he'd like and tell him to read them and tell you what he thinks. Try to show him how sexy and fun a bit of D/s can be rather than dumping a load of 24/7 D/s technical articles on him. If you can show him aspects of D/s that he finds arousing he will be more receptive to it. If he does get into it, www.castlerealm.com has a wealth of information.

Also keep in mind, he may have a hard time not feeling SILLY about it. Just because it isn't the norm, many vanilla people have a hard time getting past feeling like they are a dork roleplaying some Dungeons and Dragons character or the image of a Knight of the Round Table when you call them Sir, so keep that in mind.

Anyways I think I've said quite enough already, LOL. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or want to chat. Prior to my "real" Dom, I also had a vanilla boyfriend who I introduced to D/s with good results (it didn't work for many other reasons). Good luck!

[soledesire]

for taking the time to respond to my question. In an amazing way, you all addressed what was a (poorly worded but nevertheless) multifaceted question.

Omitting my profile wasn't intentional -- I thought I'd filled it in. Sorry. Yes, absolutely I want someone to force me to be a slut (I'm really poor at domesticity, period, so the slave thing won't work) -- I just want it to be Mr. V and, even if I didn't, finding another Mr. is not an option, for all the reasons Jaeangel listed. He's my best friend and I can't imagine my life without him.

Time alone is in chronically short supply around here and maybe that's part of the problem. One of the things that I've realized as I've read various posts is how deliberate (without getting too Oprah) this kind of relationship is. It's not something we can fall into.

Again, I really appreciate the responses I've gotten. You've given me a lot to think about.

s/d

[Curtis]

I actually liked Mobius's response the best.

Every time a women laments how their guy doesn't pick up on their hints, I just want to reach through the screen and shake them! Guys, especially vanilla guys, usually don't even notice hints -- about anything, not just kinky sex. (Theoretically a Dom/Master would be more sensitive to nuance, but don't bet on it.) If there's something you want, you have to turn off the TV, take away his newspaper, stand directly in front of him and tell him. Guys don't read minds, and it isn't fair to expect us to.

On a lighter note, I got a good giggle out of SirW's "...(trying to assert their submissive self)...". It's a true statement, but pretty incongruous.

[petpleasureyes]

Buy a pair of handcuffs, walk out into the living room naked while he's watching TV, hold out the cuffs to him and tell him you'd really love it if he'd cuff you up and have his way with you. You said he's your best friend, so that mean you must trust him. If he's like most men, he'll love the chance to satisfy your needs and desires. Most men's minds are filled with all sorts of dirty and raunchy thoughts of what they'd like to do with women, but most are too afraid to bring them out into the open.

The fear factor is most especially potent when it comes to anything sexual in men when they're with someone they really care about. "God, if i do this to her, what's she going to think about me?" Try small things like the handcuffs at first and build n that. But like most people have mentioned, communication is extremely important in any relationship. Bad communication is probably one of the biggest reasons couples end up cheating on each other. "He wasn't satisfying me." That's a very common statement. So is this from the man, "Why didn't you tell me?" In BDSM a relationship between a Domme/Dom and a sub/slave gets really close and intimate. There are few secrets if any, most especially of a sexual nature. Most Mistresses/Masters will never admit it in front of their subs/slaves, but they're out as much to satisfy their partner's needs as much as they are their own - at least the very good ones are.

Well, i hope this advice from a humble slave helps you.
slave gary