Annoyed

[Mizar]

So I have a question to ask, as I am reletively new. I have a sub, and she loves to disobey. So I react and punish her etc. But lately it has become so much worse. For example I told her to fetch an item and go to the bathroom with it(o/l webcam). I told her to be there with it by the time I came back from smoking. When I came back (as I left she ran off) she was simply laying on her bed and saying that she needed to do other things instead(thats not the problem, it was the not mentioning them previously and going to do it and me finding that she wasnt etc.) Then yesterday, she and I are text messaging, she sends me a few and quits...for hours. I send her a few in(three-ish) in the course of the...oh 8-ish hours she doesnt say anything. Then, finaly, I actualy needed to talk to her about something important and mentioned it in the message, that it was important. Not 30 seconds later she responds with "what"....that irritated me. Alot. I asked her where she had been and that I would get to the important part in a moment because I wanted to know first. I still havent gotten a response from her except for "what" last night. I have no idea what to do or how to take it. She...mostly....is perfect for me and my tastes and what not. But I can not abide that behaviour, esspecialy since I have a, most likely, paranoid theory on why she hasnt talked to me. I have another sub too, they both know and talk with one another(mildly ammusing the other is my vanilla ex who I had started getting into BDSM towards the end of our relationship and is now willing to try alot of it for me etc. and when she left me, thats when I met the other sub(primary, the one this is all about) so...I dont know how to react in this instance and whatnot. And after this instance is over, I have a problem with being poly(yes Im male and love the idea of multiple women because....Im like that, but it doesnt jive with my moral character much. I am quite monogamous) but...yes. My life is filled with all sorts of women problems at the moment and what started as a brief "hey, any help" has turned into a long winded....rant. In anycase, and advice would be appreciated and if anyone wants to know anymore about the situation persay(either) then simply ask for more detail on something and I am quite sure I will oblige more than needed, as is obvious. Thank you.

[Mizar]

and I forgot to mention quickly, hopefully, that my sub #1 well call her stacey and the ex will simply be sub for now, yes?. stacey has been actualy asking me to be poly for about two months. she likes the idea etc.

[SubmissiveDoll]

Ummm... have you talked to Stacy to see what is bothering her and what would cause this sort of behavior? Try avoiding the punishment for a little while and just talking. There may be some underlying cause for why she is acting out. That needs to be resolved because that sort of behavior in my opinion is unacceptable. But, if there is an emotional situation driving it, punishments won't correct the problem. The emotions need to be faced and taken care of first.

[Mizar]

I agree completely the problem lies in that she wont talk to Me.

[Carpe Coma]

The number one rule of behavior: People will do what they perceive is their best option. If she is being disobedient, it is because she thinks she will get more benefit out of it than being obedient. It could be that she enjoys the 'punishment', she could enjoy the rush of being in 'trouble', it could be what you are paranoid about. Until you understand her motivation, you will be shooting in the dark when you try to change her behavior. Your best bet is to talk with her about this.

As an aside; punishment based dynamics make great fantasy, but poor reality. In side by side comparisons, the carrot almost always outperforms the stick in generating long last compliance. The times when punishment is your best choice are few and far between.

[Mizar]

I recently came to the same conclusion, about three hours ago infact lol. Thank you. But she still wont talk to me, I sent her the first message since yesterday about an hour ago. I am almost worried if I didnt know her mother would tell me if anything happened. But now I have literaly lost everything. stacey wont speak, sub and I just possibly broke and were having too much drama etc (I should just let go but it was a long term relationship and seeing her start to want to do this and try it out to make me happy means alot even if she decides she doesnt like it and I would need to be vanilla with her) et cetera et cetera et cetera. So part of the problem Im having is probably the feeling of drowning in a sea of events I cant control (and we all know I hate not being in control ;whip)

[Stone]

I agree if all us doms did was punish bad behavior my arms would be sore from all the strokes i would have to deliver. It's best to reward than to punish or to take privlages away. She could be a painslut and likes to be punished i have delt wiht one like that I think it would eb so much easier for the to ask for a beating instead of being bad. In any case you need to talk to her and try to get her to open up and speak her mind which is not always easy to do.

[Mizar]

Ive been trying that, and yes she is a painslut. I know this already. And have told her that I will gladly beat her without the need for disobeying and that disobeying is bad etc. I have used pain as a reward with her even. But...and this is part of the problem. I cant find any punishment for her persay. If I take something away, she views it as me taking control of her and she likes it. I cant hurt her, she likes it. etc. I can not punish her suitably. So while she knows the rewards, the punishment is something that she is far from afraid of. btw everyone. I get quite bored so I usualy just look around on the internet and always end up here...hence why I reply alot.

[Veralynne]

Replying is good! I think there was a similar thread on here awhile ago about a sub that would break off contact. The first thing that comes to my mind is- my Master would never put up with that. If you keep making excuses, or letting her make them, for her behavior- then she ends up being the one in control. I'm not just talking about punishing her here- but end the relationship. Maybe I am seeming harsh with this, afterall I don't know what your relationship with her is really like and maybe this is only a small problem- but I think that if you make it clear to her what you expect in terms of communication and obedience, and she repeatedly fails to deliver, then maybe she isn't the one for you.

In the other thread this was mentioned, and I will say it again, that if a person wants to be with you- they will put effort into communicating with you. Even times when I have had an emergency come up or had to be ripped away from communication with my Master, I'd text Him as soon as possible- usually only moments later- to let Him know what had happened. Your partner should put an equal amount of effort into communicating with you as you put into communicating with them. I think a sub, especially, has the duty to always be open and available to his/her Dom/me whenever they want them. (Of course this works both ways, and a Dom/me should also be there to support the sub when they need it.)

Anyway, I would recommend to give it one last shot- communicate to her how important it is to speak with you and the possible consequences of not doing it- and if she continues to ignore or disobey you, then I'd seriously consider ending it.

[Mizar]

Ok, thank you. much appreciated, any other advice is quite welcome, but would anyone happen to have any ideas on punishment, btw...aside from being a painslut...I guess one would call her a humiliationslut as well. Works wonders for me in alot of ways (Im quite sick you see) but...it poses problems Ive never had before.

[good_girl]

If she likes pain and humiliation then why not try something incredibly boring...a writing assignment or writing lines "I will reply to Sirs messages in a timely manner" one line for every minute over a reasonable amount of time that you wait.

[Mizar]

ooooh I love that. That is sick and twisted. Esspecialy if I do it now...lets see...32 times 60 equals 1920 lines...sick...horribly...over the top even...I think...Ill give her lets see...5 hrs to write it in? maybe an extension on time if she doesnt get it all done for a good reason and has made alot of progress.

[Lisais mine]

is "punishment" the right course of action? are you sure that she is still interested in you? it sounds like to me you should get communication open with her again before you worry about such things. If she isn't sure she wants to persue a relationship with you, spouting all the "you are a bad girl" stuff is just going to exacerbate matters. especially since you have thrown your ex into the equation- she might not be as comfortable with that as you think.

I mean, you know her better than I could- but it sounds to me like there is more to the situation.

[Mizar]

oh theres obscene amounts, and I thought the same thing about the ex...and that could still be the problem. I simply hope it isnt seeing as stacey begged me and asked "can i keep her" before we ever asked my ex about joining us. Idk its a convoluted situation, and it will probably work its own way out. For better or worse

[his_girl_l]

Ignoring me for a set period of time is probably the punishment that resonates most with me.

Kneeling in the corner works too - she may get an initial thrill out of the idea of being punished, but i doubt she will enjoy it after being left there, totally ignored for an hour or two.

Anything that involves removal of sensation or attention rather than giving it will discourage her acting out in hope of being punished.

[leah06]

is "punishment" the right course of action? are you sure that she is still interested in you? it sounds like to me you should get communication open with her again before you worry about such things. If she isn't sure she wants to persue a relationship with you, spouting all the "you are a bad girl" stuff is just going to exacerbate matters. especially since you have thrown your ex into the equation- she might not be as comfortable with that as you think.

I mean, you know her better than I could- but it sounds to me like there is more to the situation.

I couldn't agree more. If she won't obey you about fetching something, or responding to a text message, I can't imagine that she's going to sit in the corner for hours. She's trying to tell you something, and only she, and possibly you, can say what it is. My guess, from what you've said, is, either she's hurt or angry over something, or she's getting ready to be done with you. But you need to figure out what's up with her before you can address this behavior.

My instinct is a little different from some of the other advice you've gotten. I think you should move this OUT of the realm of bdsm. This is about your relationship and communication styles, not about her being naughty. I think you should put aside the Dom-speak and tell her that the relationship is at risk and you two need to talk like adults. If there's something wrong you'll work with her to address it, but you need to know what it is and she needs to tell you, not make you guess. Then I think you should back off the communication for a while and let her come to you with it when she's ready.

[SubmissiveDoll]

If she won't talk to you this won't work. I realize there has been a lot of talk on this thread, and I think it's wonderful everyone is so helpful. But, from where I sit, there is no relationship. Without communication there can be no trust, with no trust, you have nothing more than a play partner. If you both want that, great. There is nothing wrong with it. But you can't control a play partner outside of a scene.

You want a punishment for that behavior? Try telling her there is nothing. There will be no play, no control, no scening until she is ready to open up and talk. If she makes a valiant attempt to open up and communicate with you, reward that.

I know I for one have many many many things that I have repressed from twisted childhood trauma. I can't spit it all out in one sitting. But my Master has been unbelievably patient and supportive in encouraging me to talk and work through it.

I have two thoughts on this whole thing... 1. She has issues that NEED to be addressed and worked out in her time with support and encouragement. Or the latter 2. She is far too childish to actually thrive inside of an open and functioning relationship and all she wants is the play for the excitement and entertainment without all that pesky responsibility.

[moptop]

Rachel and Submissive Doll, exactly.

Plus, I get the feeling the novelty has worn off. It may be, Mizar, excuse me, that she is quite simply bored with your play.

But I would absolutely take it out of the BDSM arena and purely into the personal relationship, to sort this out. It does sound to me like a make or break point.

[fetishdj]

Agree with both the above here. Punishing a masochist with pain is no punishment at all, ignoring the masochist's bad behaviour by not punishing them with pain is more of a punishment. In most BDSM relationships you need to establish which of the many many punishment options open to you are suitable for the sub's particular likes/dislikes otherwise you do invite bad behaviour inorder to be punished. You need to look at a standard BDSM checklist and work out which on the list the sub likes and dislikes and apply one as reward and the other as punishment.

Usually, attention seeking behaviour is best punished by removing the attention, not reacting to the behaviour at all, and rewarding good behaviour.

However, it looks like your situation is way beyond this simple solution. I think you need to make it clear that until a good vanilla communication is established there can be no more BDSM activities. If she is not prepared to make that simple change in behaviour then chances are she no longer cares and you should probably let her go and find and focus on a sub who does care about you.

[Arria]

"Playing dead" classifies as game-playing of the bad sort for me. I would not allow anything of the like in my relationship - if such things came to pass, I would make clear that if it happened again, the relationship was over.
It has to do with trust. For me, where there is no trust, there is no relationhsip. Simple as that.

And I am "only" a sub, mind...

[leah06]

And I am "only" a sub, mind...

Arria, LMFAO.