subs defending their masters

[Lisais mine]

well, I have had a few kinda rough days. nothing too bad, but alot of drama, and I noticed something about Lisa, sticking up for me and defending me, becomming agressive and domly whit others- it's really cute and touching to see her actingthis way when she is so pliable for me... any thoughts?

[PinkSugar]

Sorry you have had a few rough days. Drama what can I say about that other than life really would be boring with out some degree of it. Not only that, but it is those experiences that we learn and grow from. It is what forms us into the person we are and it is usually the tougher more difficult times that actually teach us to better our selves in some way.

Now, about a sub being agressive and domly....
I know it is not proper to answer a question with a question, but why is it that subs, even amoung those in the BDSM lifestyle are considered weak ?

Sure, there are head cases that are subs because they think they deserve 'abuse' And just as many D's out there who look for those types just because they want to abuse.

However I have found when you find a true sub, who has worked through the issues...they are well aware that it is not true abuse, they just happen to enjoy things society may deem as abuse. They dont loose thier back bone, if any thing they find it.
They are much stronger than they are given credit for.

It sounds as if your Lisa is one of those, if she is not allowing her self to be abused. Then it should not be surprising at all that she would become defensive over you her master whom she probably loves as much as her self.

[Stone]

Well my little pet does the same for me it is really cute. I think it's maternal instint in women they just protect what they love and care about

[Lisais mine]

i never thought of lisa as weak-but she lets me take care of things, most ofhte time. this is just cute.

[BryansGrrrl]

I think that is it "cute" because is it not how He normally gets to see me. When I am with Him I am still not a doormat, but I do things for Him, defer to Him, see to His needs and just relax and enjoying being around Him.

When I am @ work I am a much different person, but it is not what He gets to see. He does hear about it every so often and He finds it amusing when I tell someone off. :)

Any pet is cute & cuddly... and then you find out it has teeth! Kittens are really cute when they are hunting & pouncing too. LOL

What I need to learn from this is to go ahead & be upset, but not NOT try to take care of it for Him. It is not my place to do so. Even if I DO want to plant my foot in everyone's ass. :284:

[his_girl_l]

Well my little pet does the same for me it is really cute. I think it's maternal instint in women they just protect what they love and care about

Totally agree, i can get very defensive of my Master, and it's exactly the same feeling i get when i feel that my kids are hurting.

[Ozme52]

Now, about a sub being agressive and domly....
I know it is not proper to answer a question with a question, but why is it that subs, even amoung those in the BDSM lifestyle are considered weak ?


I never saw him say weak. He said aggressive (and domly) with others, while remaining pliable to him.

In fact, what's better, from the dominant perspective, (or at least mine,) than a strong and competent woman who bends to my will?

Generally dominants are not the ones who equate submission with weakness. It's usually submissives who "read" it into what we actually say.

[Ozme52]

i never thought of lisa as weak...


See Pink? Exactly my point. ;)

[Arria]

My hubby usually can take care of himself very well.

However, the one time he was weak was when his mother got sick and then died. Anyone who did not know him would not have noticed any difference in his behaviour, but I knew and felt it was all he could do to keep appearances up and stay "up and running".

During that time, I wanted to shred ANYONE to pieces who acted in a cruel or dumb or insensitive way against him, and probably astonished some people with my reactions. Unless I am around folks I am close to, I normally am rather quiet in r/l.

[Lisais mine]

In fact, what's better, from the dominant perspective, (or at least mine,) than a strong and competent woman who bends to my will?



true dat, yo!

[PinkSugar]

I never saw him say weak. He said aggressive (and domly) with others, while remaining pliable to him.



Your right, he did not say weak. I took the word pliable...easily bendable, and thought from that it was perhaps something he saw in the same light as being a weakness.

He asked for thoughts, and that IS what I was thinking. Not all of my thoughts are the right ones, or even good ones. Sometimes, I even like my bad thoughts the best, but hey that's another post.

I would however like to apologize if I spoke too quickly, or made assumptions where I shouldnt have. In my own self defense I am very new to this forum. I have not yet learned who's who...and such.

[leah06]

Well, I'll jump in and say that I don't love the word cute in this context. In fact, I don't really love the word cute at all, applied to a human over the age of say, eighteen months. Part of being in any relationship, even D/s, is accepting love graciously - and, accepting your own needs within the relationship. If your sub protects and defends you, why belittle that by calling it cute?

After you hear from a few more subs parsing every word in your post, you'll wish you hadn't brought this up at all. Sorry!

[Ozme52]

Well, I'll jump in and say that I don't love the word cute in this context. In fact, I don't really love the word cute at all, applied to a human over the age of say, eighteen months. Part of being in any relationship, even D/s, is accepting love graciously - and, accepting your own needs within the relationship. If your sub protects and defends you, why belittle that by calling it cute?

After you hear from a few more subs parsing every word in your post, you'll wish you hadn't brought this up at all. Sorry!



Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww, how cute! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

[angela_shy]

...If your sub protects and defends you, why belittle that by calling it cute?

forgive me if i don't quite make sense (half a glass of wine - i don't handle alcohol well!) but...

is calling her reaction cute belittling it, or could it be seen as an extension of objectification or humiliation or some such... or even paternalistic...? and therefore a natural extension of a D/s relationship in a small way?

(i mean from the D perspective... from the s perspective, the maternal/defensive does seem to be the driving motive).

i'll go finish my wine before i start designing a solution for world peace... :)

[BryansGrrrl]

Can you start designing Whirled Peas instead? I like peas.....

[cadence]

When I defend my Dominant, it's usually because he is not around to defend himself.
I don't do it because I feel the need to defend his honor, I am actually defending mine really.

A lot of what we do or want to try is objectional or downright crazy. Even our existing relationship is not as everyone else thinks it should be.
I will end up defending him, because he and I are involved. If you slam him, you are most definately slamming me in a small way.

[jezabel]

Well, I'll jump in and say that I don't love the word cute in this context. In fact, I don't really love the word cute at all, applied to a human over the age of say, eighteen months. Part of being in any relationship, even D/s, is accepting love graciously - and, accepting your own needs within the relationship. If your sub protects and defends you, why belittle that by calling it cute?

After you hear from a few more subs parsing every word in your post, you'll wish you hadn't brought this up at all. Sorry!

i have to agree with rachel, using 'cute' to describe a sub who is defending her Dom is demeaning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will defend my Master to the death if the need arises, although he is quite capable of looking after himself.

im sure any sub would do the same, be it for their Dom or Domme and most of them would appreciate their support

[angela_shy]

can you start designing whirled peas instead? I like peas.....


lmao!

[Pearlgem]

Generally dominants are not the ones who equate submission with weakness. It's usually submissives who "read" it into what we actually say.

I might have thought I understood it once but fail completely to understand it now why sub after sub (in general, not getting at anyone in particular here) invariably stresses the point that she's the strong/feisty/bratty/challenging type, the implication being that there will be the presumption otherwise that she's a pushover or that submission equals weakness. I know that subs do what they do through desire not weakness. Doms know this. Subs know it too. Kinksters in general know it. So why are we constantly implying even amongst ourselves that if we don't state otherwise we'll be labelled 'weak'? This is a vanilla misconception about our lifestyle and we're not vanilla.

I long for the day I see a sub post begin, 'I am a doormat...' at least being out and proud about it!

[PinkSugar]

I am a doormat...........

[Pearlgem]

I am a doormat...........

Hooray!!!

[Arria]

LMAO! *gives PinkSugar a kiss just for having said that*

*runs off giggling*

[jezabel]

I might have thought I understood it once but fail completely to understand it now why sub after sub (in general, not getting at anyone in particular here) invariably stresses the point that she's the strong/feisty/bratty/challenging type, the implication being that there will be the presumption otherwise that she's a pushover or that submission equals weakness. I know that subs do what they do through desire not weakness. Doms know this. Subs know it too. Kinksters in general know it. So why are we constantly implying even amongst ourselves that if we don't state otherwise we'll be labelled 'weak'? This is a vanilla misconception about our lifestyle and we're not vanilla.

I long for the day I see a sub post begin, 'I am a doormat...' at least being out and proud about it!

im a sub/slave to my master and proud of it...with him im non-challenging, ive given him total surrender, rarely bratty (only in play) and would NEVER seek to disrespect him

i do this because i love him, plain and simple...but still if someone disrespected him, and if for some reason he couldnt defend himself, i would do so in a heart beat......not because i have to show that im strong/feisty/ bratty etc but because he means the world to me....as i know he would do the same for me, whether in a vanilla situation or kink

i was a doormat for my ex husband...its different to being a sub, you have no control, no self esteem and i would never want to be like that again and my master wouldnt want me to be

[PinkSugar]

I just HAD to do that.

Perhaps it is just me and my own personal experiences, but I dont think it is just a vanilla misconception.
All kidding aside I can be a doormat and am alot of the time, I will put up with a whole lot as far as myself to that point that yes I admit I allow myself to be walked on. That defense mechanism kicks in tho when it is someone else I love, something else I care about and feel that it is being walked on.

Now...Cute
HUH ?
I have been called quite a few names in my lifetime that I felt were demeaning and insulting, never have I felt that way while being called cute.
Guess it is just one of those things, that some people love and others find offensive.

[Lisais mine]

wow. i wasn't trying to make such an uproar. Lisa is my world. she is perfect, both in her submission to me and her role as dominate mother of three wonderful kids and in her role as High Priestess and teacher.
I find her to be quite wonderous, beautiful, smart, compassionate, wise, powerful. and i am honored that she gives me her love and devotion.

by pliable, I mean that she bends to my will.
by cute, I mean that i find it adorable and, like she said, like a kitten chasing a mouse- not because she is weak- other folks find her quite intimidating- but because she is normally much calmer and almost meek around me.

I understand her power. I get to see her beauty and her strength.

I don't mean to be demeaning, and I wasn't. just as some like "slut", I like to pamper my girl. I like silks and flowers, not cold hard floors and chains. my girl submits from love, not from an iron fist. to see her stand up for me is like reciving a gift that i wasn't expecting- almost like it was too much, too expensive.

She is my own. my adorable, beautiful, special. my precious. Mine.

[leah06]

Wow. I have no objections to any of that. Just sayin'.

[love2serve]

wow. i wasn't trying to make such an uproar. Lisa is my world. she is perfect, both in her submission to me and her role as dominate mother of three wonderful kids and in her role as High Priestess and teacher.
I find her to be quite wonderous, beautiful, smart, compassionate, wise, powerful. and i am honored that she gives me her love and devotion.

by pliable, I mean that she bends to my will.
by cute, I mean that i find it adorable and, like she said, like a kitten chasing a mouse- not because she is weak- other folks find her quite intimidating- but because she is normally much calmer and almost meek around me.

I understand her power. I get to see her beauty and her strength.

I don't mean to be demeaning, and I wasn't. just as some like "slut", I like to pamper my girl. I like silks and flowers, not cold hard floors and chains. my girl submits from love, not from an iron fist. to see her stand up for me is like reciving a gift that i wasn't expecting- almost like it was too much, too expensive.

She is my own. my adorable, beautiful, special. my precious. Mine.

Sooo beautifully put - Lisa is very lucky.

[Miner]

I would however like to apologize if I spoke too quickly, or made assumptions where I shouldnt have. In my own self defense I am very new to this forum. I have not yet learned who's who...and such.

In my book, there is no need to apologize for speaking from your heart, pink.

As with your girl, Lisais_mine - my girl can be a real tiger in defending me - not just when I'm vulnerable, but also if she perceives some sort of 'threat' to me as well.

She's a strong, intelligent woman who submits to me completely. I have a gut feeling that what happens (with my girl at least, and likely with a lot of other strong subs) is some form of maternal instinct that kicks in when she thinks there is a need to protect. She doesn't mother me - but she definitely has my back (as I have hers).

[PinkSugar]

I would say it was a very good post because it generated so much conversation.

Discussions...opinions are a good thing, With out others I would only have my own, my own view . Others opinions and views make this world a more beautiful place for me to live in wether or not I agree with them.

For instance take my screen name "Pink" I love the color pink so much If the choice had of been mine I would have painted the entire world pink, pink grass, pink sky. I even thought about selling Mary Kay just to get the pink Caddy. In doing so I would have missed the entire rainbow. Granted some of those colors contrast, they still look good next to pink.

I thought about that word cute some last night too, and yes I have used it in a context that would be insulting. I have tripped snagged my hose, oh thats 'cute' Spilled something on my clothes , oh thats REAL cute.

Online communication can sometimes be difficult when you do not know the person you are talking to. You dont see the facial expressions, you cant hear the emphasis on certian words. Sometimes cute, is CUTE and is misunderstood.

BTW, I notice ya'll are in Va. I just moved out of the Commonwealth a couple months ago. I made a run for south of the border when I realized I was not part of the common who had the wealth LOL

[BryansGrrrl]

I think it was a good discussion too. I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and thoughts on the matter. I never thought the word "cute" could be so offensive! LOL

Never in any way have I felt demeaned or diminished in my relationship with Mia'Cova. I am a very, very lucky woman. His words above brought me to tears when He read them to me aloud. And He knows I feel the same about Him.

My instincts to protect Him, help and shelter Him are very similar to those for my other friends and loved ones. The only reason that this instance was remarkable was because we are in a D/s relationship and I found it quite amusing that I was telling Him what to do and say (not that He did, of course, He's quite capable of handling it Himself. As am I). If it was my best friend hurting, I'd do the same. If it was one of my children.... well... you might not want to be the person on the other end of that. ;)

Most female animals in the wild defend their territory every bit as much as the males, if not more-so. And even though He owns me, He is also mine and therefore my territory. :D

I do think I need to work a bit on how I word things when speaking to Him in these situations. Giving orders, while cute, is NOT acceptable in my book. I am happy that He gives me leniency in these matters, knowing that this is new to me and my normally dominant role does sometimes enter into my "sub" conciousness. (oooh, i like that!) But from now on, I will show him that I am displeased and that I wish to flay someone alive... instead of "ordering" Him to do so. LOL

[Miner]

lol ^ that is 'cute' in a nice way - and I get the feeling he was proud of the way you did order him around in that situation. Good on you both :)

[thepast]

I have to chime in. Well I don't have to. But I will.

I see no bloody thing wrong with using the word "cute." If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, don't. If you're personally offended by being directly called "cute" then fine--tell the person that & they'll probably not call you cute again. But cute has far more then just the "awww ain't that cute" meaning that I think a lot of people automatically associate it with. And maybe it matters what context it's being used in, or whether you have kids of your own & thus associate the word w/your kids... but seriously... talk about over-parsing.

Now for the topic at hand. Dominants can defend themselves, as can submissives. I have never understood why people consider submissives needing defending--they are big boys & girls--they can defend themselves. That being said, if it's in a D/s context, and another Dominant oversteps the boundaries, generally the submissive's Dominant will speak with the other Dominant. But that gets tricky unless you are able to really distinguish & parse apart those events from events when you, as a Dominant, might just "put your claws out." The end result is really the same--we're all adults, we can all defend ourselves.

As for the boards & chat... you're responsible for what you do, no matter your role. If you're a sub & your Dominant steps in & fights someone "for you," both you (as the sub) & they (as the Dominant) are in the wrong. It's YOUR (sub's) fight... not that of your Dominant. It has NOTHING to do w/D/s context... it's just about personal responsibility. Just imagine... "delia, X said I was an arsehole, so I stuck Y on him." Oh GOODIE. Juuuust imagine.

All right, that's my 2 cents.

[Miner]

the example is trivial - and I have to agree in the trivial case - however I disagree with the substance. Responsibility - to me - means making sure my sub is safe. Whether she can take care of herself or not is immaterial (and she can). It is still my responsibility (and delight) to take care of her. As with other aspects of BDSM - this is not a black and white issue either.