? on limits

[jynxa29]

i'm sure this happened to other subs a few times, and i would like some input. you find someone new dom to play with, or have a session with, and the new dom has a different idea of fun than you do. they suggest something that you are truly not comfortable doing (think hard limits), but they tell you that you should do it anyway since you're a sub. they say there really aren't limits, you should do what the dom wants, no matter how you feel about it. so as a sub, do you do it anyhow to please them, or hold your ground and say no? what do you tell a dom who tries to get you to do it anyway? i think subs have the right to say no, but i wanted some input from others.
thanx

[love2serve]

Subs ALWAYS have the right to say no. As has been said many times on this site, just because you are submissive does NOT mean you are a doormat - some kind of stupid person who is expected to do as she/he is told because a Dom/me says it should be so. However, I do understand that limits (soft or hard) can change. Just as your relationship with your Dom/me changes - trust builds, a special relationship forms and in many cases, limits, which at the outset are set in stone, appear less so, until you find that you are happy to dip your toe in the water - more for yourself really than your Dom/me as it shows you just how far you have come, and WANT to do for your partner. This is what I have found anyway. But never have I been browbeaten into doing anything that I wasn't totally comfortable with so in that respect I am lucky. If a Dom/me could not accept that my answer was no to something, especially something that had already been discussed as a limit for me, then I'm not sure I would be able to continue in his/her service as, without basic respect between dom and sub you have no basis for a relationship anyway. Of course I am very new to all this, I have had one Master online and now have a r/l Master whom I trust implicitly so my knowledge is limited, however just from reading the many postings and blogs on this site has shown me that a sub is very far from a weak person and should something be asked of you which you consider to be unacceptable hold your ground - with proper discussion between the two parties things may become different but hold your ground if you aren't comfortable, you owe that to yourself.

[manda]

There are several threads on this very topic --check the archives for more information. Yes a submissive ALWAYS may say NO to something they are uncomfortable with- and it NEVER makes them any less submissive. If this was someone you wanted to persue a further relationship with (although after spouting that BS I don't know why) --you would then discuss what makes you uncomfortable and see if it may be something that with time and patience you may want to explore (subs can be led slowly into new experiences). Communication is the most important part of a D/s relationship along with trust. If this is someone new --there hasn't been time for the trust to build up --but communication lines should be open -both ways. I hope this helps --talking to other subs (and doms) is a good way to understand too. Please feel free to PM me if you would like to talk.

[SubmissiveDoll]

Basically, after I was done laughing at them, I'd tell them right where to shove that idea.

Doms earn respect, I don't just hand it out. Hell, thats like "Oh come on baby, you don't need me to wear a condom" or "Come on if you don't have sex with me, you don't love me".

I'm not going to get tossed out of the submissive club for telling some self proclaimed 'dominant' to stick it in his own butt.

[Belgarold]

As a REAL dom I say you do not SAY anything. You get up and as quickly as you can get out of there. The person you are with is a poser or a wannabe and has no respect for you (Subs are deserving of respect, it is essential).

It is jerks like this that give us bad names. You DO have limits and they must be respected at all times. 'Soft' limits can be explored I feel after trust is built up between dom and sub and with MUTUAL consent. But even then you move very very slowly.

Hard limits are HARD limits, not to be breached.

RUN! :-)

And Pardon me for encroaching on the sub, um, 'space.'

[mzkkbprmt]

First thing I learnt, and I don't know that much, is that the sub can always say no. There are two phrases used to describe conduct - SSC and RACK. In both the C is consensual. If you don't consent it shouldn't happen.

It is also normal for a Dom to push you, to help you to develop yourself, but if there is something you really don't want to do you shouldn't just because your Dom says so. You should be able to talk to your Dom, discuss it and come to an agreement. If He isn't willing to listen to you and work with you He doesn't deserve the capitals I have given Him.

[SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN]

Some people can jump in to a situation, some can't. I'm a person that can't. I have to get to know you beyound . Respect is a WORD that gets thown around alot. Respect gets thrown around too much, but it doesn't mean anything to the way too many people think about each other.

Build a relationship. Respect comes. Care about your partner, Dom or sub. If you care about someone in your HEART, becauce they are a person, care about their well being, care about their enjoyment, then it will come around to you. You have to care FIRST about the person you are hoping to CONNECT with. If you don't, it's not a matter of being a true dom are a true sub. it's a matter of, "you have no clue". I'm Captain Newbie, but I'm lissening and caring about the folks I talk with, ( I'm old, school of hard knot ).

CARE about PEOPLE, the rest will come.

If you don't CARE about the other person, well then YOU DON'T COUNT.

[wyldrose]

i guess thats the difference between just play and actual D/s.
in a D/s relationship there can be an actual 'sharing' of ideas, like limits, rules, and what is expected during training. a Dom/me who is aware of these limits may push them, but its after a space of time and presumably are doing so because They know how the sub will react and can account for it to make it safe.
playing, though, isn't as moderated by rules and protocol. it's the same as a vanilla one night stand- how much detailed thought was put into the turn on/off's of the other person in a one night stand?
as Belgarold said- the "D"s who immediately start making orders and pushing limits of a sub aren't actual Dominants- they simply enjoy rough sex and have watched too much porn, and are basing their actions on exploiting somebody who they presume is weaker- a submissive. these people aren't deserving of respect. leave immediately.

[leah06]

Well, I agree with everyone else, obviously. But I just want to stress a difference between "pushing" soft limits in the context of a relationship and coercing someone to overstep her boundaries. There are a lot of valid reasons to push limits (IMHO NOT in the context of a one-time scene), but there are no valid reasons to hear the following:


... but they tell you that you should do it anyway since you're a sub. they say there really aren't limits, you should do what the dom wants, no matter how you feel about it.

"There really aren't limits?" Excuse me? And, "you should do what the dom wants, no matter how you feel about it?" People can say whatever the hell they want, speech doesn't cost a whole lot, but it doesn't make them less of an idiot.

[sinfulsex]

people have basically said what i want to say but the idea of and Dom/me saying stuff like that quite frankly made me angry. and i dont get angry often, sure i get annoyed but not angry.
unless you have had a very long complex in depth talk with your Dom/me then they dont know the reason why hard limits are infact that, hard limits. if you really dont want to do something there IS a reason behind it. even if its just a gut feeling its still a reason and tbh with you i have found my gut feeling is right most of the time - hmm that sounds odd - i listen to my gut but i digress.

you should really run, and run a mile
no sub should have to do something just because their Dom/me tells them to. as many people have said, wheres the respect?
honestly do you really want to submit to someone that obviously has no idea of the word or how to treat a submissive with it. just because you submit, maybe just in play or maybe 24/7 doesnt mean you dont deserve respect. more so infact because its not easy to hand over your trust to someone, to let someone in to something so private.

look after yourself, please, you should be at the top of your concerns. its your life!!!!

sinful
x

[megaen]

subs Always have the right to say NO. I dont call anyone who would try and break a hard limit like that a Dom but a bully. A Dom should respect your limits now if you talked with eachother and came to an understanding great but never get bullied into anything. If a Dom tried this with me i would simply say "sorry find someone else because your not going to do____ with me/to me"

[ravenbounduptight]

If i'm a sub then i'll do whatever the Dom want's that i'm in the scene with at the time. well, i'm not going to rob a bank or kill someone, so i guess i'll have to live with not being submissive. lol. i've had times where my limits and comfort levels chage and my Dom/Top at the time always is watching and communicating.

Among my friends, and i'm sure other people out there, no means no. If you have something that you don't feel comfty with doing, then no is always there in this case.

btw i thought it was slaves that couldn't ever say no,and that was after they were trained, collared,ect. . .But that's a whole different beast/topic.

~j~

[Wiscoman]

...People can say whatever the hell they want, speech doesn't cost a whole lot, but it doesn't make them less of an idiot.

Most quotable thing I've read all night ;)

[bluefarie]

First of all, i agree with what others are saying about anyone who pushes you to do something you aren't comfortable with can shove it. However, it comes down to the fact that bdsm relationships are just like vanilla ones in that you have to find someone you are compatible with. Just because you are both into bdsm and he is a dom and you are a sub doesn't mean you will be a good match up. I have experienced this one first had a few times. Kinky to some isn't kinky to others and what one person might consider very tame and reasonable another person may think is off the deep end and would never consider doing such a thing! :)

So as with all relationships, we are all different and it takes a bit of time to get to know people. I have found that for a play partner or a trying to get to know each other, the easiest way to see if the kink matches up is a checklist. It's time consuming and can be tedious at times, but it really is the best way to see if your limits match up with what a potential dom expects or wants.

Bluefarie, owned by Master Archeon