Negotiation Tips

[satisfied]

It has occured to me that there are an alarming number to new people in the lifestyle who just jump right into D/s relationships without actually discussing their limits. I thought that perhaps we could help them a bit in their learning to let them know some of the things we discussed before our relationships started.

So the question is:

What are some of the things that you discussed with your Dominant before you agreed to submit, in all things, without argument?

[satisfied]

I'll start. In addition to telling him all of my hard limits and soft limits, I also told him of a minor medical problem that I have and the few things that he could possiby do that would trigger it. I made sure that he knew I am claustriphobic, and what portion of my face can be covered before I pretty much freak.

Hardlimits are one thing. They pretty much center around playing. But when I find a Dom worth submitting to I do not limit it to the bedroom. I submit to him in all things. Which means that negotiations went farther than just within the limits of play time. I made sure that he understood that I have a lot of self respect. That I am honest, sometimes to a fault, and that I will never be willing to do anything that will hurt another person, be it physically or emotionally. I let him know what the most important things in my life are. That while, yes, he could force me to give them up, don't expect me to be the same happy person afterward.

I know I am probably forgetting a lot of stuff, but this is what's coming to mind right now.

[denuseri]

My numero uno hard limit is:

"Absolutely no "Spooning" (cuddeling after sex) lol,

"When you get done making use of me please untie me so I can pace and enjoy a few smokes while I come back from subspace on my own, If I need your assistance I know where to find you."

Well when I first started I got lucky, my very first dominant and his wife questioned me at length about it all before they decided to include me in thier household.

I was pretty up front with any other doms/dommes I have had since then. Even if some of them were not so up front with me. I should have in hindsight been much more proactive in establishing hard limits with them prior to any contact up front or insiting that any gray areas be hammered out before hand.

No snuff, skat, pee, kids or permament physical harm were for the longest time my only limits.

That has changed a lot over the years.

I have in some ways if any thing many more limits now than when I first started.

Some of them developed due to bad experiences and others due to refinment of my desires over time.

[Ozme52]

This is a good thread.

I meet too many subs off of relationships who didn't know the could have limits...

...and too many who would be in a world of trouble on their first meetings were it not I whom they had just met.

[jeanne]

Something I have found is that negotiation takes different forms, depending on the people involved and the nature of the interaction.

If the negotiation is for the purpose of a single scene, at a party maybe, then it is usually short and specific. The top will state what he'd like to do in the scene and ask the bottom what he/she would like, an agreement will be reached about what will happen, hard limits and any medical/physical issues will be disclosed, and off you go, to happily "play". Both parties know what to expect, and there are no surprises. In this situation, it isn't so much that you're disclosing and negotiating limits as it is that you're choreographing a scene that will be satisfying to both (or more) people involved.

In a relationship, however, negotiation is a long process - and to a certain degree, is ongoing throughout the relationship. Limits are disclosed and discussed in depth - why something is a hard limit, how each party defines a particular act, clarification of soft limits, discussion of those "oh hell yes I love that!" items...and these limits shift and adjust over time. For example, a hard limit on my checklist with Him was puppy play. I simply could not see myself crawling around and barking. It was a huge "NO WAY". But, in discussion, we discovered that His definition did not involve actually "being" a puppy - it involved the use of a collar and leash to lead and control. I gave it a try - and loved it! So, something I defined one way and said No to, He defined a different way and it has become one my most favorite things.

Another part of negotiation in a relationship is negotiating the actual parameters of the relationship. How do you define yourself and your partner in the relationship? That may change over time. I'm not a big fan of the "Hi nice to meet you...gosh that was fun playing...yes, I'm your slave for life" rush into Master/slave relationships. Over the course of my relationship with Him, we have gone from Dom/sub to Owner/property - but it took well over a year and lots of conversation to get there.

Another thing that needs to be openly negotiated is the type of relationship you seek - is it monogamous, poly, sorta poly...how you each define these terms needs to be very clear. Particularly if you're interested in a poly relationship - the negotiation of that can be difficult and uncomfortable - but it needs to be completely open and honest in order to have any chance of success.

One last thought - it can be hard, as a submissive, to negotiate. It may feel like "topping from the bottom" or it may be intensely uncomfortable. But, you, as a submissive, owe it to yourself to do this. If you don't take care of you, who do you think is going to do it?

[thepast]

jeanne, I couldn't agree more with you.

For one scene or a few encounters, the limit/boundary discussion tends to be much more short and concise... you know what the scene is, so you really don't need to discuss everything. You just need to discuss enough to do the scene. It lends itself to probably a 10 min max discussion... are there issues? Usually not, if both people are clear. It is, after all, just a scene.

However, for a long term relationship? Much more. Think of it as an endless string of scenes... for every scene if you have to spend 10 min negotiating, think of the time you SHOULD be spending discussing things in a relationship.

But think about it beyond the "usual" limits. Most likely 80% of folks are "no" to kids, scat, snuff, etc... things that many people consider the "outer fringes" of kink (don't get me wrong... some folks consider scat a primary kink... and that's great too)... but what about kinks that will most likely "appear" in your relationship early on? bondage? what is your position on collaring? how about verbal humiliation?? People tend to "pass off" the "routine kinks" and only discuss things more on the "extreme" side... but why? It is important to discuss EVERYTHING.

But... if you are like me... talking things to death sometimes makes you have a migraine. Ok... then talk through certain things. Talk through important things. Then after each time you play w/your partner, talk about the session afterwards (not immediately afterwards, but after you've had time to digest it & think about it)... what worked? what didn't work? A good Dominant wants to hear these things. A good submissive should be communicating them. Why, you ask? Isn't it the Dom's just to "do the play"? No way! If the Dom doesn't know what the sub likes, or how the sub enjoyed/hated different play aspects, how is the Dom going to use the "right play" at the "right time"?

jeanne also mentions, and I agree with, the fact that there are many things beyond limits that you should be talking about. What's the relationship status? Are you both otherwise committed? What are going to be your o/l rules, say, if you are r/l but you both want to be in chat? What about posting on forums? Where do the r/l rules cross into o/l? Or, where do the o/l rules cross into r/l?

These are all sorts of things that just need to be discussed. The decisions aren't "good" or "bad"... you make the decision that's right for you both when you make it. Sometimes, things will change over time & you'll need to discuss different aspects of your relationship again.

But what floors me are the amt of people who go into relationships with NO discussion at all... where are the boundaries? How much do you want this person involved in your life? How much of your life are you willing to divulge, or give up control of? What impact will your relationship have on others living with you? Living away from you? What about your job? Other r/l responsibilities?

Whether you are o/l or r/l, you need to have discussions about things, or miscommunications will occur. And often, "blowups" in relationships are completely preventable if the pair would have had a sit down, REAL discussion about things. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't advocate a "whatever you want, Sir" approach to a discussion. You both need to be honest. Be on equal footing, have that real discussion. While, as Oz mentioned, it might cause you to lose a relationship, it will save you from an emo breakup down the road.

[diem]

good thread, satisfied, wisdom for all players, sub or dom

[ravenbounduptight]

well, it's different for what i'm doing and who i'm doing it with. i wont play with anyone alone who i don't know. i do consider playing with new people in public with one of my close friends watching. my friends know me and know what they enjoy. One knows bondage and would watch if i wanted to get roped by someone new, One knows impact play, and so on.

Now about scenes with the people i know, IF i have any thing that is a limit or something they should know (aka my knee got hurt, please watch it and give me more breaks). Sometimes for me things change, they're not limits but how i feel that day. One example would be i usually don't have a problem playing naked in private, (i wont play alone) but a few things happened and i didn't feel like being completely naked one night, i told Him in all seriousiness i dont want X to come off. and we worked around that. i don't view that being a bad submissive, i had a mental issue with my body that day and that's why i talk before all my scenes. if i cant tell someone what's bothering me or if i'm not feeling good, then i shouldn't be playing with them.

btw i'm just talking for scenes, not for relationships. . .i'm not the relationship type or greatest advice giver on them at the moment.

~j~