I have made a huge mistake...

[Buttons.the.kitty]

I have a vanilla friend who I *thought* I had reason to believe was into BDSM (in retrospect, this was an unfounded assumption on my part). I asked him about it - not inviting him to play or anything, just asking if he had an interest in it - obviously, I was wrong, and he's really weirded out now.

I've already figured out that just asking him outright like that was a massive, massive mistake, I really just did not think things through at all. What I'd like to know is if there's anyone here who has made a similar mistake, and what you did to smooth things over so to speak, because I really don't want to lose his friendship over this.

There's another level to this...part of his response...he said "you just brought up the one aspect of my life thats been causing me the most pain". I'm afraid now that he DID have previous interest in BDSM, and instead of just weirding out a vanilla friend I've triggered bad memories for him. I don't know what else he could have meant by that, but I am wary of making rash assumptions again.

I can't believe I was so stupid, and I'm terrified now that he won't feel comfortable around me anymore.

[Wiscoman]

There are a lot of "maybes" here. Maybe he's had a bad experience, maybe he hasn't had any experience and he feels torn between accepting his sexual nature and fear of being a "pervert." It sounds like he was sending out some kind of a signal, consciously or unconsciously, and that from your perspective it didn't seem like an odd thing to ask.

And, frankly, it doesn't strike as if it would be. If you're wrong, you're just wrong -- curiosity among friends. I don't see why this would be a big emotional drama for him. It sounds to me like he has something to work out for himself. If asking him a simple personal question throws him into some sort of a panic, I think we can safely call that an overreaction on his part.

Give him some space, leave the question alone, and see if things heal over. He's a guy and guys have a great ability to pretend something never happened. See if his guy instincts kick in and the whole blows over.

[ppr128]

The key to remember is that BDSM has some extremely negative connotations. Depictions on the TV or in movies (Marquis de Sade, etc) emphasise the worst aspects of it, the most extreme and violent things- really serious whippings, really bad degredation and humiliation, and so on and so forth. Obviously that does go on and some people enjoy it, but BDSM runs the gamut from soft and gentle to the seriously hard core.

When you're new to the idea, it is easy to make a snap judgement and equate BDSM with the horrific, like real rape and domestic abuse. I know I certainly felt the same way when I first contemplated the scene, and it wasn't until I talked to an IRL Owned Slave about it that things started to coalesce and I began to understand.

As it stands, I am WAAAAAAY over on the "nice" side of BDSM. And there's nothing wrong with whatever flavour anyone else prefers- so long, of course, as it works for their partner.

I can understand if it's something your friend doesn't want to discuss ever again, but if it helps, feel free to hit us up for advice, assistance, or if you just need to vent :)


He's a guy and guys have a great ability to pretend something never happened. See if his guy instincts kick in and the whole blows over.

Well, not so much that :D We just resolve things at the time and then move on. So we don't like going back over arguments or conversations we've already had ;)

Mind you, now both of us need to hand in our testicles and Man Club cards for revealing male secrets :(

[Guera]

I agree with Wiscoman, except that I wouldn't give him to much space- don't let him feel like he was abandoned or left hangin in the wind- it sounds like he is dealing with some pain of some sort, and just having a hand to hold (no words needed) could help. Just make sure he knows you are still a friend, no matter what happens or happened in this one incident. It might be a good time to initiate some sort of NSA invitation, like to go to a movie or watch a game or whatever.

[Buttons.the.kitty]

Thank you, everyone. He actually just texted me asking me to explain this aspect of my life a bit more, so we're going to have a chat about this later (I don't have unlimited texting, lol...)

So I guess he just had a knee-jerk reaction and has calmed down a bit now...we'll see how this conversation goes!

[Wiscoman]

Good to hear and good luck with that :)

[Buttons.the.kitty]

Oh, WOW. So it turns out he was freaked out because he assumed that my interest in BDSM lay in the more hardcore, scarier aspects of it...and this upset him because he likes me but didn't think he'd be able to live up to that sort of thing...and...turns out we have similar BDSM-related interests, and seeing as I'm kinda into him too, we're going out on a date soon.

Did not. Expect. This. AT ALL. Wow I'm so happy right now. =^.^=

[jeanne]

Wow! That's awesome. I sure do hope it all works out well. :wave:

[ppr128]

Yay! Flawless victory. Hope it all works out :)

[morwyn{Myrddin}]

That sounds fantastic hon, a better result all around! Warmest blessings for that date!

[fetishdj]

Hurrah for speedy resolutions!

You know... we really need to organise some positive PR to stop this sort of thing happening :)

[Buttons.the.kitty]

You know... we really need to organise some positive PR to stop this sort of thing happening :)


haha, YES! I blame porn. It caused problems with my previous playmate because most of his information on BDSM came from watching porn, and it caused problems here because my friend heard "BDSM" and immediately thought of the hardcore stuff that goes on in some pornos...

[ppr128]

Bingo. Yeah, that doesn't help the cause much >.<

Happily, all seems to be going well.

[Buttons.the.kitty]

I've actually been thinking of making a documentary about D/s relationships, as one of my school projects...to counteract the "porn effect". I'd have to find people willing to essentially 'out' themselves though, as I feel like having faces blurred or people's identity hidden in any way would only enforce the stigma that there's something wrong about this. *shrug* I got time to figure that out...heh.

[Pflutter]

Excellent news and excellent idea.

[fetishdj]

There is already an excellent documentary out there which you may want to look at as research. An English reporter spent several days talking to members of the New York scene - though it was mostly professional Dommes. The Dommes were fine to have their faces revealed but most of the clients chose anonymity. It was very interesting to watch. I have a copy somewhere but it is on VCR.

There are places out there where you can advertise for models who can come and enact realistic scenes for you but that won't be a 'documentary'. I am sure there are also lifestylers out there who will 'out' themselves for you.

[Buttons.the.kitty]

That does sound like it'd be very helpful...do you know the name of the documentary?

[LaMarrKee]

Once again,Honesty, and Communication, seem to have saved the day. I hope your date goes well, and that the 2 of you develop into something wonderful. Friendship is a Good base to build from. As you already seem to have the H/C aspects of it down (YAY!), the D/s should be much easier. If the pair of you do decide to go for the gusto, I hope the collar never chafes, nor the leash ever strained.

[skittish doe]

@ buttons~ I am so excited for you! I hope everything goes the way you’d like it to.




Mind you, now both of us need to hand in our testicles and Man Club cards for revealing male secrets :(


My personal opinion here is that your cards both got an upgrade to platinum on account of your being brave enough to give us a window.

[Missy_Me]

Wow, Buttons!!!

I am so excited for you!!! As LaMarrKee said, friendship is a great base to start a relationship!

Please let us know how it will develop! I'm cheering for the best for you both!
Yey! :cheerlead

And I'd also like to know more about both documentaries!

Take care and enjoy yourself!

Missy_Me

[Missy_Me]

Oh, And I agree with you, skittish doe:

Platinum card it is for ppr128 and Wiscoman!!! :)


@ buttons~ I am so excited for you! I hope everything goes the way you’d like it to.





My personal opinion here is that your cards both got an upgrade to platinum on account of your being brave enough to give us a window.

[Wiscoman]

I've actually been thinking of making a documentary about D/s relationships, as one of my school projects...to counteract the "porn effect". I'd have to find people willing to essentially 'out' themselves though, as I feel like having faces blurred or people's identity hidden in any way would only enforce the stigma that there's something wrong about this. *shrug* I got time to figure that out...heh.

You could go all Ken Burns and record the people as audio to use as a voice-over while you show artsy images.

[fetishdj]

I can't remember the name of it... I'll look it up and post it when I find it.

[Buttons.the.kitty]

And here I am looking for advice again already...

I'll call the guy James (not his real name) so I don't get all confusing just saying "he".

Our first date (on Thursday) went really well.

There's a group I found online, of kinksters of the younger generation who live in my city. They had a party on Friday that I initially planned to go to. James was being really weird about me going to the party (he did not want to go with me) - he kept his mouth shut about it but I could tell he was uncomfortable with the idea, even though I told him I wasn't going to "play" with anyone at the party. I guess his concern in *this* situation was understandable though. The group also meets twice a month for coffee, and I ultimately decided that it would be much more sane for me to get to know everyone with their clothes on first, so I opted out of the party and hung out with James again instead.

So I met the group for coffee for the first time today, and James is just as upset about this as he was about the idea of me going to the party. I don't understand - it was just a social thing, it's not like we were gonna be having an orgy right there in the coffee place.

This is just so upsetting to me...meeting this group today has been the first thing to finally make me feel right about this aspect of my life, and it really hurts that this guy I really like, who I had *thought* was okay with the kind of BDSM activities I'm into, is so disapproving of it.

I know I need to talk to him, and I'm going to tonight when he gets off work...I just have no idea what's going through his head right now. I'm assuming that's he's just got some misconceptions about the group like he did about me when he first found out. Hopefully I can get him to understand...

[Lion]

Let him know that with any sort of bdsm, communication is one of the most important elements. It's understandable that he would be scared the first time around, but this back and forth enthusiasm isn't fair for you, and it's rather selfish of James.

[ppr128]

I know I need to talk to him, and I'm going to tonight when he gets off work...I just have no idea what's going through his head right now. I'm assuming that's he's just got some misconceptions about the group like he did about me when he first found out. Hopefully I can get him to understand...

This would certainly seem to be the case.

I would add that he may also be worried that since he is inexperienced, you're attractive, and there are more experienced BDSMers at the meet that you might think twice about being with him?

Any new relationship is a bit volatile at first :) Throw in the complication of the lifestyle, and the learning curve can be more than a tad daunting.

[Buttons.the.kitty]

Thank you...you guys always put things in perspective for me, haha.

He didn't want to talk last night, but we're meeting up in a couple hours...we shall see.

[collar.schemes]

Good luck, tell us how it goes!

[Missy_Me]

Good luck, Buttons.

I hope James is just being nervous/anxious about putting a real start to his/yours bdsm wishes.

It might also be the case that he is very private about it. I am with someone at the moment that does not like any kind of groups/activities in the "bdsm community" - he likes to keep his affairs very privately - but, trust me, that doesn't mean he's not into it! ;) Not at all! :D

Well, I hope it'll work out for the best for you!

And keep us posted!

Hugs,

[kurious25]

One more thought is that the idea of joining a group or going to events sounds more "serious". If he is only interested in the lighter aspects of BDSM, perhaps he thinks these events cater to the more hardcore aspects of the lifestyle. In which case your interest could be mistaken as you wanting more than you let on.

I know I was intimidated as all get out before the first munch I went to, and even more so before the first party. I actually got to the meeting area almost an hour early to make sure I was dressed right and that nobody looked too scary before I could work up the nerve to walk in.

Good luck with your playmate, I hope it works out and you both find what you are looking for.

[Guera]

I bet all the posters here are right- its all about misconceptions

[SilverMist]

Button hope all is well with you. Seem like you got all the suggestions and things might be working out for you. I wish you the best and

ppr128 i just need to say this. Your Avi is wickedly cool. Freaked me out at first. Heh

[Buttons.the.kitty]

Thank you all again. :)

We've talked. He is okay with me going to coffee meets and the like as long as my interactions with the group stay on a strictly platonic level. He's not okay with me going to play parties, with or without him - I can understand and respect that. While I am very curious about what goes on at these parties, I can live without finding out.

The question now is when and how we will begin exploring BDSM together. He has absolutely no experience with it, and my experience is limited to three scenes with a guy (Ethan, if any of you remember me talking about him) who was also rather inexperienced.

I know that he is very uncertain about this. He is afraid of losing control of himself and going too far if he takes on a Dominant role. Added to this, a couple days ago a friend of his, who he thought he knew, beat his girlfriend really badly. So now James has that connection in his head, even though he understands that BDSM is not abuse.

Since I am the more experienced one here (as little as that may be), and by far the more confident about it, I feel like I'm going to have to take the lead role in us getting started with this. I'm trying to figure out how to ease him into it without just ending up 'topping from the bottom'. Any ideas?

[ppr128]

IMO, "topping from the bottom" is a myth. All you're really going for is providing a mutually satisfactory experience, and there's nothing wrong with taking it slow. Perhaps if you fill in a checklist for him, and then talk about what you really like or would particularly look forward to trying?

[RogerWilco]

im sure it has been mentioned on the forum someplace but I just wanted to suggest the BDSM checklist. i would post the link but im not allowed yet. google it and it will pop up. could give the 2 of you something to look over and discuss. could help ease some of the tension. good luck!

[ppr128]

:) Geat minds must think alike; I linked Buttons to the checklist I use last night, so hopefully it will work when they fill it in.

With a little luck, their tastes will overlap perfectly.