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Pandora's Box
09-26-2004, 06:35 PM
I would really like to hear what everyone thinks are the responsibilities of a dominant/master to his submissive. It's something that I think I may be confused on.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you. :)

BDSM_Tourguide
09-26-2004, 07:30 PM
What are your feelings on what the responsibilities of a dominant are?

About what things do you think you may be confused?


For more information:

Castlerealm's subSpace "Some Things to Look for in a Dominant" (http://www.castlerealm.com/subspace/sublook.htm)

Texxx
09-26-2004, 07:34 PM
I would really like to hear what everyone thinks are the responsibilities of a dominant/master to his submissive. It's something that I think I may be confused on.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you. :)



In fact .... this is easy .. .typing for hours ... will not change things.
I am Gorean so mind set may differ from that BDSM Master.

But when I take a girl I take on all that she has been and that she can be.

Her submission is My responsibility ... My responsibility is her freedom .... her freedom is to serve My pleasure....My pleasure is her responsibility.

I hope that makes sense to someone other than Myself.

Texxx
Gorean Master
"We all dance 'round and suppose, the secret sits and knows."

Pandora's Box
09-26-2004, 07:37 PM
Thanks TG, but I could have pulled up that article. Already read it. Several times as a matter of fact. But real life doesn't seem to be happening according to that article.

I'd like real life responses from people on here. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked.

:)

Texxx
09-26-2004, 07:46 PM
Thanks TG, but I could have pulled up that article. Already read it. Several times as a matter of fact. But real life doesn't seem to be happening according to that article.

I'd like real life responses from people on here. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked.

:)


Perhaps if she was not so vague with her question she would get the advice she seeks...?

Texxx
Gorean Master

Pandora's Box
09-26-2004, 08:08 PM
I would have preferred to keep my ideas out of this as to not taint the answers. But I see that apparently I have not provided enough of a question to be answered.

My ideas of a dominant pretty much match those in the article.

Specifically on the list is:


Time
Attention
Love
Cares about me
Listens to me/Hears me
Honesty/Trust
Ability to communicate
Ability to guide
Respect


What I am confused on is that I have yet to meet a dominant that is able to maintain that list over time. And no, not just the love part. The love, at least according to everything been told to me, is not the issue here.

slavelucy
09-26-2004, 08:20 PM
1)Time
2)Attention
3)Love
4)Cares about me
5)Listens to me/Hears me
6)Honesty/Trust
7)Ability to communicate
8)Ability to guide
9)Respect

i think that list is fairly comprehensive...up to a point. i did however number them for a reason, because i think they are semi-sequential. That is to say that i think they key part that sets the relationship away from any other relationship is number 8; a dom has a responsibility, with trust placed in them, to guide and help the sub grow...they cannot do it however, IMHO, without the other 7, which are necessary pre-requisites. (the love one is perhaps debatable, but certainly preferable).

HTH :)
sl

Texxx
09-26-2004, 08:44 PM
I would have preferred to keep my ideas out of this as to not taint the answers. But I see that apparently I have not provided enough of a question to be answered.

My ideas of a dominant pretty much match those in the article.

Specifically on the list is:


Time
Attention
Love
Cares about me
Listens to me/Hears me
Honesty/Trust
Ability to communicate
Ability to guide
Respect


What I am confused on is that I have yet to meet a dominant that is able to maintain that list over time. And no, not just the love part. The love, at least according to everything been told to me, is not the issue here.

The girl seeks that witch does not exist read all the articles you wish. Search the world over and you'll not find a M/man that fits the above all day every day...W/we are Human. I wager the girl is not all the above all day every day yet she looks for one that is.....come on hun....think about that.

What you need to do....is work hard to find one that truly tries....then do what YOU can to keep it that way. Realize that O/our lifestyle is intense and very demanding allow for breaks in that intensity. If not for yourself ....for the Pleasure of your Master.

This couples up with the post you made the other day ..." How much time does a Master give His girl" rrr somp'n like that.

If you wear His Ko-lar.....that in and of it's self states to A/all that you have His
Time
Attention
Love
Cares about me
Listens to me/Hears me
Honesty/Trust
Ability to communicate
Ability to guide
Respect

.....from time to time "space" is also requirement.

Ooooooooo and please do not forget that all the above is NOT a one way street. Part of your submission is to allow Him some flaws.....allow Him to hit a bump in the road....allow Him His Humanity. Do you not ask the same of Him..?

Maybe I'm crazzy....yah think..? :D

Texxx
Gorean Master

Pandora's Box
09-26-2004, 08:47 PM
Yes as a matter of fact I do think you're crazy. And frankly this girl would like to spend more than one night a month and 30 minutes a week with her Master.

BDSM_Tourguide
09-26-2004, 08:50 PM
A dominant should be responsible. He should be realistic in his expectations and in his practices. He should have the wisdom to understand that life, real-life, gets in the way sometimes and you have to yield to it.

A dominant should have the cunning to keep a submissive on her toes, but the understanding to lend a shoulder when she needs it. A dominant should be consistant in both enforcing rules and maintaining discipline.

First and foremostly, though, a dominant is a person. He's fallible, he makes errors in judgment and in decisions. It's part of being human. And just like any other person, a dominant needs emotional support, love and care.

Just like submissives are not doormats or valueless little things, like cattle, a dominant is not a stone cold, emotionless beast of a man either.

Basically, a dominant is responsible for being himself, providing the same amount love and care he expects to receive in return, setting tasks and rules and then consistantly enforcing them through discipline, and showing that he is an emotional human being with a soul and with the capability for caring and concern as well as the potential for strictness and sternness.

Does that help at all?

slavelucy
09-26-2004, 09:11 PM
The girl seeks that witch does not exist read all the articles you wish. Search the world over and you'll not find a M/man that fits the above all day every day...W/we are Human. I wager the girl is not all the above all day every day yet she looks for one that is.....come on hun....think about that.

Texxx - isn't it surely the case that any 'ideal scenario' of a Ds relationship will always be a 'utopia' - that's what ideal means. i don't think Pandora or anyone else actually believes it would be like that all the time and that any human being wouldn't ever slip up and be less that perfect.


Ooooooooo and please do not forget that all the above is NOT a one way street.

No one said it WAS a one way street, and furthermore i don't think you need to tell most submissives that it isn't a one way street! But the question was about the responsibilities of dominants, hence the slant of the answers...you guys, your wants and desires can't be the centre of every single subject and thread all the time you know. :rolleyes:

sl

Texxx
09-26-2004, 09:16 PM
Yes as a matter of fact I do think you're crazy.

That is may very well be true. But,


And frankly this girl would like to spend more than one night a month and 30 minutes a week with her Master.
I'm not the one that is in a collar now am I. I'm not the one that is allowing herself to be used and tossed aside, now am I.

You came here whining about something none of U/us can do anything about. I have tried to help ..... forgive Me .....

Go grow up....maybe we'll talk then princess.

Texxx
Gorean Master

Pandora's Box
09-26-2004, 09:20 PM
Texxx, please do me the distinct honor of refraining from giving me your input in the future. I didn't appreciate your condescending tone from the beginning. I am not your slave girl/submissive. If you choose to deal with the women that submit to you in such a manner, then that is their prerogative.

If you can't be respectful to me then I can think of no good reason why I should be respectful to you.

BDSM_Tourguide
09-26-2004, 09:25 PM
You came here whining about something none of U/us can do anything about. I have tried to help ..... forgive Me .....

Go grow up....maybe we'll talk then princess.

Texxx
Gorean Master


I don't think she was whining about anything, Texxx. She asked some pretty genuine questions and has some well-thought-out ideas of what she wants in a relationship. It sounds to me like she was pretty much doing everything except whining.

Now, on the other hand, if her boldly having an opinion and expectations has bruised your ego, then perhaps you should take a step back from this thread and cease posting to it. You might also ask yourself why a woman with an opinion and expectations makes you so uncomfortable that you feel she needs to grow up. Most grown-ups do have opinions and expectations of themselves, their partners and others around them.

GaryWilcox
09-26-2004, 09:46 PM
I boil this argument into two camps:

The fantasy where a Dominant has total domination and superiority
to every submissive encountered, regardless of said submissive's
experience and background,


or


the reality where relationships require all people to exchange ideas of what they want to mutual benefit,
i.e., for submissives, the tip of the iceberg is, you torture me in entertaining ways,
and I'll let you torture me in entertaining ways.

You have other choices and aspects as you care to define them, but let's face it-- that's what in play here. Dominant is law, or submissive has her rights, too. Dominance requires respect; respect requires understanding. Having a slave merely requires putting someone in a situation where they are dependant on you for life and shelter. Having a submissive requires understanding that dominance is a gift given, just as submission is.

The submissives involved in this thread seem to have a very clear understanding of the difference between fantasy and reality. I'm not applauding their use of common sense, just acknowledging it. See... they wish to share in a fulfilling relationship with someone who has the same understanding of them, their needs, and their role to a dominant-- their need to submit, to be used, and also to be cared for, to interact. While it's fun for some to play furniture, being furniture is another matter entirely... sitting idly and waiting for a moment to be.

If you can't understand the balance between a submissive and a dominant and that it exists for more than simply servicing the dominant, then you're missing the point of that realtionship. And most relationships.

That's my two cents. Spend 'em as you will.

spike
09-26-2004, 11:39 PM
I wasn't going to copy the list out again and waste everybody's space, but my post ended up on the next page!

Time
Attention
Love
Cares about me
Listens to me/Hears me
Honesty/Trust
Ability to communicate
Ability to guide
Respect

Of the nine items there the only one that is not an essential part of the contribution of both sides to any close relationship is '8. Ability to guide'. The difference from vanilla being pointed out by just about all those posting to this thread, even Texxx in his way, is that one side is taking responsibility for guidance of the other.

It is a huge responsibility amounting to being parent as well as lover. To give that much care requires a special concentration of effort, just as responding to it does.

But it seems to me that Pandora feels she is being short-changed in other categories as well. Perhaps she and her Master should discuss their relationship as a whole as much as the D/s part.

Spike

Pandora's Box
09-27-2004, 06:33 AM
But it seems to me that Pandora feels she is being short-changed in other categories as well. Perhaps she and her Master should discuss their relationship as a whole as much as the D/s part.

Very true Spike. I do feel like I'm being short changed. He's always working. We have talked about it. Ad nauseum it seems. He always says he'll try, but no real tangible things seem to ever come. I have no proof that he even does try.

Yesterday was our 6 month anniversary, and I didn't hear a word from him. I would have contacted him, but after being put on the back burner for work so long, the last message I left him was along the lines of "you contact me in your time, because I'm tired of reaching out only to have you contact me at your convenience."

Not a pretty way to start the weekend. And this hasn't been a good way to end the weekend.

He says he wants "us", wants me. For life.

But never acts on it. I'm beginning to feel like I'm in this relationship alone.

spike
09-27-2004, 07:03 AM
He always says he'll try, but no real tangible things seem to ever come. I have no proof that he even does try.Which has clearly eroded your trust in him, or you wouldn't feel that needed saying.


He says he wants "us", wants me. For life.

But never acts on it. I'm beginning to feel like I'm in this relationship alone.His job is important in his life and sets its own timetable and agenda. Remember that taking a job is taking on responsibility and commitment too. So he is capable of being the person you want him to be.

But if you (the two of you - Y/you :D ) don't set up a timetable for the "us" part of your life the job will win by being more organized. If he commits to time with you and then doesn't deliver, the job has already won. Retire gracefully. Leave a message admitting defeat and be prepared to go quietly. If he does respond make sure you meet as equals and he gets to know all that you feel.

Note that all of that advice applies to all kinds of relationship too. The only difference with D/s is that you have to more careful about the "meet as equals" bit.

Spike
who took time out from his work to answer this.

jaeangel
09-27-2004, 11:17 AM
Time
Attention
Love
Cares about me
Listens to me/Hears me
Honesty/Trust
Ability to communicate
Ability to guide
Respect


This doesn't apply only to you, dear, this applies to everyone who has a 'significant other'. Let's look at those one at a time.
Time: A dominant has to make some time out, not only to play with their sub, but also to listen to the sub. Always a biggie. Hubby works, I don't, and i feel like he never has time for me. When he gets home, he eats dinner, and then i do dishes and go to bed. In the morning he messes around with his hobby until it's time to go to work, then gets up, dresses, and goes. Sometimes with the prelude of a quick suck-n-fuck (excuse my crudity, but it doesn't usually take more than a half hour) but involves very little loveplay on me, so I get left feeling dissatisfied. However, he usually makes up for it on his days off.
Attention: If a sub is neglected, they get irritable and discontented, and that's not a good thing to have happen in any relationship. Same thing happens to a wife (i.e., me.) Doms have a responsibility to spend time with their subs, not necessarily 'in' a scene. Just time out, as people, as equals, not as a top or bottom.
Love/Care: A must in any relationship: if there's no trust or care, it's not a relationship, and not worth keeping.
Listens: A person can hear withoout listening. In one ear and out the other, as the saying goes. The Dom needs to listen to the sub, but the sub also needs to listen to the dom.
Honesty: Both sides need to be honest with each other. Being honest will engender trust.
Trust. Both sides need to trust each other.
Communicate: Men aren't really good at sharing their feelings. Not because thy don't want to, though that is true sometimes...but because they can't. Their brains actually don't have the same wiring that women have, the same number of neural pathways from the emotion center of the brain to the speech center of the brain. (At least that's what I saw on Discovery channel one night.) They have fewer neural commections between the above mentioned brain parts. But if they feel very intensely about something, they will talk.
Guide: This is kind of a hazy notion here. One assumes that you know where you're going, know what you're doing, and don't need guidance unless you'te blindfolded and Master is leading you around an unfamiliar room. If, however, you need emotional guidance after a personal tragedy, emotional turmoil, whatever, Master should be there to help. Maybe not as often as the sub would like the dom to be, but still needs to be there nonetheless.
Respect: Dom needs to respect sub, in all forms and facets. Sub, however, also needs to respect Dom's needs, to understnd that while sub wants to be with Dom all the time, it may not alway be possible, or desirable in the long term.
The trick with all this, as with a marriage or a vanilla relationship, is to find out what the other is comfortable with, find out what you are comfrotable with, and then find a compromise that straddles the line. The next time you talk to your Dom, Sit down with him. Explain what you're feeling, what you think, tell him what parts of your life with him you're currently not happy with.Ask him if there is anything the Dom isn' happy about with the current status quo. Then find a compromise. If you can't reach a compromise, it may be time, as mich as you may like/love/care about the Dom, to look for another one. Some people need more emotional/physical contact, some people need a lot less. If you're 'more', and he's 'less', what you want and what he's comfortable with may not be compatible.
And in the end, ask yourself, 'Do I love him enough to make a formerly important point not so important anymore?' Before I met my husband, my number one criteria for a mate was that he make enough money to give me 'stuff', and that he be tall and moderately good looking. Then I met my hubby (who makes $18,000 a year as a department store detective, and has a large 'port-wine' birthmark under his left eye) and once I got acquainted with his personality, the money and the looks issue became a non-issue for me. It didn't really matter anymore, because I love him, and I know he loves me, and while some weeks (like this one) we have to borrow to make our rent, we still love each other to face those obstacles together.
It's not a complete answer, nor an expert one, but I hope it helps.

Pandora's Box
09-27-2004, 12:21 PM
I indeed do have a lot to think about. What is missing is time, attention and listening. Possibly care.

He says he listens, but apparently as all the things I have asked for or said to him have gone in one ear and out the other, I have to think that he hasn't listened.

The reason I say possibly care is because I am beginning to come to the conclusion that it is entirely possible for a person to "love" another and not "care" about them. Or at least care enough to do something about problems being faced.

That leaves time and attention. I don't get enough of either. It is head-bangingly frustrating too. The little (so pathetically little) time we do spend together is usually fantastic. But... it's not enough. We haven't had a date night with just us for over a month. Literally. And that's with very little to no time spent together in between. It makes me wonder how he can say he loves me when I am not a big enough priority to make some time for.

And yes, I am super frustrated and feeling super neglected. And yes I have told him. But if it all goes in one ear and out the other... *sigh*


(Spike)
If he commits to time with you and then doesn't deliver, the job has already won. Retire gracefully. Leave a message admitting defeat and be prepared to go quietly. If he does respond make sure you meet as equals and he gets to know all that you feel.

That's exactly where we are at. How can he say he wants me for life if he doesn't even want to take actions to be with me? And if he does want it, he has a hell of a way of showing it.

This may very well be the end. And I don't want that. But... he may have already made the decision for me with his inaction.

I haven't even talked to him since last Wednesday. Sunday was our 6 month anniversary.

At this rate... I can't see good things for the future. I refuse to step into a life where his work will always be a greater priority than me. Work is important... but it won't keep his heart warm at night when he's in bed all alone.

:(

e.b.
09-27-2004, 03:52 PM
Pandora,

First, having read a number of your posts, I believe that you already have a good understanding of the qualities a good dom should possess. Of course TG's comments were eloquent and on target as usual and I hope they helped to affirm your thoughts (even if you did have to nudge to get him to write instead of just supplying a web reference). ;)

I wanted to give my input on this issue though because my dom and I are having similar issues. For me, what it boils down to is not necessarily time per se but rather that he understands my needs and shows that he cares enough so that I feel comfortable giving him my trust, respect, and submission. It sounds like you are having similar questions as far as whether or not he is worthy of your trust at this point. After all, it's difficult for an intelligent, independent person to submit to another if she is unsure whether or not he is able to accurately judge when to push limits and when to offer gentler forms of support. And of course there has to be enough time to share and communicate in order to create the type of mutual understanding and trust necessary for gifts of dominance from one partner and submission from the other. Okay, I think I'm rambling now so I'll stop but please know you're not alone on this issue so hang in there, Dear.

Also, this thread did serve to remind me that things can always be worse...at least neither of us is in a relationship with a "gorean master"! :D

eb

Texxx
09-27-2004, 06:57 PM
First of all the Mobius all purpus disclamer.
<--------What I am about to say is meant for the humor and not to demean or insult----------------->

(So now that I said that I am free and clear of any possible violations of the COC. Na na na Na Na na :)

This seams to be very Springeresk. I swear I have seen this one before.

I think it is the one were The Hottie (pandora's box) Living in the trailor park hooks up with the dirty old man down the block in the dubble wide.

Then She shows up on the springer show to tell her Master that she is through, You dont give my any time. You always working. He says I have to couse you spending all my money. She says well I'm through. And he says no you aint She says Yes I am and I found a new master, Rufus. He says Rufus that old geasor. She says and here he is.

And out walks an 80 year old geasor. He locks lips with Pandora. Then the Master Breaks them up and chases after the Geasor and the geasor ends up losing his teath.

After allot of aurguing the master ends up proposing to Pandora and she ends up dumping rufus. Who ends up chasing after Todd.

<--------What I am about to say is meant for the humor and not to demean or insult----------------->*wily Tuchuk smile*


Well it seams the the young sexy Pardoora went to see old geasor feeling that she was not kind to him afterall.....after hearing some odd sounds outside the door she walks into the home and finds old geasor drilling for oil in Todd's butt.....After the shock of things dies down .... This new feeling runs thru her body....she move to them slowly. sexualy....Her eye now feasting on the sight.....Her painties now soaking....she kneels....to get a much better look....her mouth now wide open....as her tounge slips over her lips.........

When before she can stop herself......she is sucking the peanut butter off old geasor's limp but still jerking cock. She moans with lust never known before as the brownish tint of the old geasor's cock turns pink...once cleaned by her lustful lips ........

She decides to leave Master ... for the the old geasor this time for good ( well maybe)....Todd's not half bad either now that H/he got his implants...SEEEEE-cup. nice and full. One would never know it but Pandoora seams to love to eat shit and jump from Master to Master sighting all kinds of shitty, off-color, self-centered, rationalizations....go-figure


Texxx
Gorean Master
"We all dance 'round and suppose while the Secret sits and knows."

mythicat
09-27-2004, 07:42 PM
I am Gorean so mind set may differ from that BDSM Master.

It does. Fortunately so does the mindset of the average Gorean kajira. ;) I think that's the basis of where the conversation went awry earlier. As for what I think the responsibilities of a Dominant are...I think that should be decided by the people involved in the relationship and reassessed as regularly as needed.

Yes, that should be vague enough! :D

Texxx
09-27-2004, 08:00 PM
It does. Fortunately so does the mindset of the average Gorean kajira. ;) I think that's the basis of where the conversation went awry earlier. As for what I think the responsibilities of a Dominant are...I think that should be decided by the people involved in the relationship and reassessed as regularly as needed.

Yes, that should be vague enough! :D

So very true ....... but I was honestly trying to help the girl......I will admit that that I left the door open for her to strike out...shame on Me.

Thing is.....I have seen so many well educated, attractive, intelligent girls bounce about in our BDSM lifestyle preaching their cosmo crap.....that I find it hard to be nice....but I do try,...cause I have seen some truly make the leap .... into BDSM and become something a Master can take a great deal of pride in.

I truly hope she can be one....but she has miles to go.

You are totally correct....such matters can only be resolved between the Master and His sub......coming here to arm herself with reason's not to listen will not....create an environment of equal footing.....But that's just Me I guess.



Texxx
Gorean Master

BDSM_Tourguide
09-27-2004, 09:11 PM
... but it didn't seem to work all that well. Well, now I'm not going to be very nice and I'm going to say what I feel about the (off topic) subject matter currently being smeared about like cow manure in this thread.

First off, this is not a Gor group or chat. For the most part, we are non-denominational BDSMers around here and will pretty much let anyone in as long as they obey the rules and don't become condescending, self-absorbed braggarts. However, what we ask here is that peoples' views are respected. If the people here cannot offer advice politely, have good discussions (or even polite heated debates), and cannot act in a mature, responsible and realistic fashion, then I'll be all too happy to show those people the way out of here.

Secondly, the starter of this thread, PandorasBox, is not a Gorean, nor has she ever claimed to even remotely have any interest in the Gorean "lifestyle." So, if the advice given to her cannot be applied in a polite manner, first, and in a real-world context, second, then it doesn't need to be given at all. And it especially doesn't need to be given with healthy doses of condescension, vanity, arrogance and outright rudeness. In case it was missed by the offenders participating in this thread, these forums do have a Code of Conduct (in other words, a list of easy-to-follow rules). That Code of Conduct protects against unwarranted harassment of one member by another. Essentially, acting immaturely and rudely is reason to be removed from these forums.

Thirdly, many of us here have relationships, whether online or offline. For some of the people here, the contents of this thread might have offered some good advice and answers to questions they might feel about their relationships, but are afraid to ask. However, when some people here see an obnoxious individual belittling and degrading the starter of this potentially informative thread, then some of those people become less inclined to post to this thread and ask their own questions and seek their own advice. When things like that happen, I get a little cranky, because I firmly believe that everyone should have the right to post here and not be harassed or belittled for their questions and opinions; at least, not if they have stated them intelligently and maturely. And anyone that doesn't like or respect that policy can leave now and I won't miss them a bit.

Finally, and I want to be very clear about this: I don't give a damn how much time or experience any person here has in their chosen lifestyle, that still does not give anyone the right to impose a holier-than-thou attitude on the others here. I don't give a damn if someone's been in a real life relationship for 30 years or in an online one for 30 minutes. Everyone here has the right to ask their questions, have them answered politely and not have their lives belittled for what someone else might think is silly nonsense. Just because someone has experience at something doesn't mean they're good at it. I can watch people build rockets for 20 years, but that doesn't make me a rocket scientist. So, what's good for one person isn't necessarily right for another. If anyone has a problem with that, leave. I'm not kidding. Pick up your shit and get out.

Now, on a personal note, I'm going to say this: Gor was a great bit of fiction that spanned the better part of a quarter century, but that's what they were: Fiction. In my opinion, Goreans don't even belong under the same big "umbrella" as people that practice BDSM, because most of the Goreans I know don't understand some of the most basic concepts of BDSM. And if anyone wants to debate the finer points of Gor vs. BDSM with me, then open a new thread on that subject and be polite.

Pandora's Box
09-27-2004, 09:59 PM
I don't think anyone is going to mind if I breeze by the off topic discussion and go right back to the actual discussion.


(eb)
And of course there has to be enough time to share and communicate in order to create the type of mutual understanding and trust necessary for gifts of dominance from one partner and submission from the other.

E B, I want to thank you for saying that. It's been hard for me to crystalize that thought in my mind. But this is exactly it. If I'm going to put myself into his hands and my future by his side... I need his time. His time will reassure me.

And it's his time I don't have.

I wish he said all the wrong things instead of all the right ones. I wish it wasn't shear magic when we are together. If it weren't for those... it would be much easier to "cut bait and fish on"... well at least with some healing time in between.

But that's the thing... I want this to work. I don't want to come at him. I want to come to him. With him. But... after so many attempts at trying to talk to him and get my point across... it's now at the point where I need him to come to me. To reassure me.

The really really hard thing about this... is I have a feeling it has become a battle of wills. And that's not at all what this is about. I just need him to come to me so I can have faith in him and how he feels about "us".

Because... if he can't do that... then the pattern is set and it would always be me making the compromise. And that's not how it works. It has to be both of us, Master or not.

Perhaps I'm rambling at this point... but it does feel good to get some of this out.

mythicat
09-27-2004, 11:50 PM
Pandora, does he know why you need him to come to you this time? If you havent told him everything you've told us then it's very possible he doesnt realize it's not a battle of wills. Men especially, and the workaholic types in particular, can be incredibly thick-headed about picking up on undercurrents in a relationship. If he's not the sensitive-type you may have to spell it out for him...not just drop the ball in his court, but bounce it off his head. :D Then it's clearly up to him at that point.

However, is his work something which will always be so consuming? Or is it something that will let up after awhile? (ie after a promotion, after a certain time period, etc). Cus I hardly see my husband during his busy season throughout Winter/Spring, but I suck it up cus I know things will return to "normal" come May/June. That makes it a lot more bearable. But if his chosen career is something that will always keep him busy year round ad infinitum, and you have a greater need for attention than that (as is obvious), then there's just no way to make that work. If that is the case, he just plain doesnt have time for a f/t sub or girlfriend of any kind and you're not a p/t kind of girl. You'll always feel jipped and he'll always feel nagged. Not exactly a solid foundation. But if he wont always be so busy in the future, then really it's up to you to decide if you can wait patiently for him or not.

Pandora's Box
09-28-2004, 12:06 AM
Pandora, does he know why you need him to come to you this time? If you havent told him everything you've told us then it's very possible he doesnt realize it's not a battle of wills.

He actually may not know. Heh. He should know. It's not like I haven't said enough to put it together. But he actually may not have a clue.


If he's not the sensitive-type you may have to spell it out for him...not just drop the ball in his court, but bounce it off his head. :D

How do I do this? Seriously. I don't know. I have told him my needs... But if I need to do more, then what is a good way to do it? Without me going to him. I don't even know if email is a viable option. He has the time to check it about once or twice a week.


However, is his work something which will always be so consuming? Or is it something that will let up after awhile?

It is his busy season. It is supposed to let up once the rainy and cold season starts. That is what he has told me.

It would be easier if we hadn't got off to such a rocky start. Long story. But I believe I glanced on it in my first topic here. But to give him a fair shake, after we had talked about the "rockiness" and before it got busy at his club... he was good about spending time with me.

Another thing that would make it easier is if this wasn't online for right now. We want to take it to "3 dimensional" (I like that term) but his work has curtailed those plans for now.

I am glad you posted about your experience with your husband's schedule. It makes me feel less alone in all this.

I just don't feel particularly secure right now. And it would mean the world to me if I even received a 20 second "sweet nothing" email... and yes I've asked. But to no avail.

I know it's hard to concentrate on others when he's busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest... but shouldn't he try? A little email or phone message or something?

:(

Ladywynn
09-28-2004, 12:17 AM
For a long time, I've often told my husband I felt like he was my roommate other than my husband.. but he is the sort where I see him maybe 2 days a week. His schedule is such that he leaves for work at 2:30 PM, comes home at 3:30 AM, sleeps until 1-2 PM the next day, 4 days a week. In essence I never see him. On his days off, I consider myself lucky if he is not rushing off to help people who need him to fix vehicles, re-roof houses, repair fences... he just cannot tell these people no. I think of him as the White Knight... always rushing off to help those in need, and very often he seems to forget us at home.

But I also learned in the six years we've been together, dropping hints or guilt trips on him does NOT work. This man is as dense as a post when it comes to grabbing hints, and guilt trips only make him upset. He often feels like he cannot say no, because often these people have no one else to turn to.

In the end I have compromised. When it gets to be too much, I pull him aside and tell him to set aside at least one day of his weekend this week, because I miss him, and need to spend some time with him. Until this weekend, I have not seen him for any length of time, longer than 2 hours, for a month.

I just try to make the best of the time we do have together, but I do understand your frustration. Some men just get caught up in working to make their life better, to make our lives better, and forget that in the meantime, we're still here waiting!

I understand your frustration in this situation though, I know what it feels like to be married to a workaholic!

slavelucy
09-28-2004, 07:36 AM
I know it's hard to concentrate on others when he's busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest... but shouldn't he try? A little email or phone message or something?

To put it bluntly, yes, he should try, no one can be that busy...if he is, he seriously needs to go on a time management course.

sl

e.b.
09-28-2004, 08:04 AM
Pandora,

Thanks, it's always nice to know a comment was helpful.

I can also identify with the dilemma of having it be so good at times that it makes a decision about whether to continue much more difficult. I'd say that the majority of the time, my Master and I are wonderfully connected and in touch with the other's needs and wants...in vanilla and s/m contexts. However, there have been some glaring issues for me lately that he doesn't seem to truly grasp what I'm thinking or trying to communicate. Thus, he treats them as if they're relatively minor issues while they continue to get in the way for me.

So, along the lines of...

you may have to spell it out for him...not just drop the ball in his court, but bounce it off his head. :D
...we got in a heated discussion/argument. It actually ended up being in an M/s context as well since my attempts to discuss matters as equals hadn't impressed upon him the severity of my troubles. However, that seemed to help to shock him enough to get him to realize a bit more of what I'm going through.

Basically, during an IM, he made a comment regarding a problem that I'd brought up earlier. His comment was made flippantly and it regarded an aspect of how I deal with certain situations that he knew was less than accurate. So I called him on it. I told him that what he'd said was "bullshit" and I preceeded to tell him why. Now I can swear as efficiently as most people in appropriate situations, but he'd never heard me do it as a sub unless in a moaning response to pain/pleasure. I felt disrespectful as I don't find that an appropriate way to address my dom, but there are only so many ways to get that sort of "heads-up" value of a ball bounced on his head via IM.

After that, we actually had the start of a promising discussion. So, sometimes I guess the shock value may be worth a try if nothing else is working.

eb

Pandora's Box
09-28-2004, 09:58 AM
Well... I did end up calling him. I, in many ways, resent that I had to be the one to step forward. The message was simple. I asked him to call me so we could talk and try to fight for and save "us".

Without other means, I was limited... and I don't want to lose this without fighting. I never want to look back and say "what if?"

If he doesn't call... which I can't imagine... then I'll have my answer.

So now... I wait.

spike
09-28-2004, 10:02 AM
I asked him to call me so we could talk and try to fight for and save "us".Remember, when he calls, you are equals. No subbing. Tell him it is that important.

Spike

mythicat
09-28-2004, 10:16 AM
Darn you people posting while I'm writing my long-ass dissertation! lol
Oh well, apply what still applies and ignore the rest. :p


He actually may not know. Heh. He should know. It's not like I haven't said enough to put it together. But he actually may not have a clue.



How do I do this? Seriously. I don't know. I have told him my needs... But if I need to do more, then what is a good way to do it? Without me going to him. I don't even know if email is a viable option. He has the time to check it about once or twice a week.



It is his busy season. It is supposed to let up once the rainy and cold season starts. That is what he has told me.

It would be easier if we hadn't got off to such a rocky start. Long story. But I believe I glanced on it in my first topic here. But to give him a fair shake, after we had talked about the "rockiness" and before it got busy at his club... he was good about spending time with me.

Another thing that would make it easier is if this wasn't online for right now. We want to take it to "3 dimensional" (I like that term) but his work has curtailed those plans for now.

I am glad you posted about your experience with your husband's schedule. It makes me feel less alone in all this.

I just don't feel particularly secure right now. And it would mean the world to me if I even received a 20 second "sweet nothing" email... and yes I've asked. But to no avail.

I know it's hard to concentrate on others when he's busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest... but shouldn't he try? A little email or phone message or something?

:(
Seems to me you have some options, and some decisions to make for yourself:

1.) You could wait for his busy season to clear up and see how it goes after that. Find a hobby, take a class, read, go for long walks, play online casually if it's permitted, play with yourself if it's not :D...do what you need to in order to get through this dry spell, but do NOT nag him for attention. You will never get what you need from anyone that way. And in this case you will only be equating his thoughts of you with more stress and more demands. Not exactly the way to a Dom's heart. If he's tired and overworked he isn't going to want to deal with one more hassle. If you're hassling him, that means you.

You have to decide if only getting attention from him half the year is something you can accept and adapt to over the long-haul. Assuming of course that you are attended to properly when he's not so busy.

2.) Tell him (again) that you just need him to reach back to you a little bit when he's this busy, only this time tell him why. Don't make a big emotional production number out of it, just state everything simply and clearly. Email might be your best bet since you can write it, edit it, sleep on it, and edit it again before you send it; plus he can read and process it on his own schedule. There's no way of doing this without you going to him. If that's not possible then this isn't an option. If it is still an option, then wait at least 3 weeks for him to reply. If he checks his email once a week, that gives him sufficient time to read it, think about it, and write you back no matter how busy he is...IF he is willing and able to meet your needs.

If you just can't be the one to reach out one more time, or you don't want to wait that long for a reply, then a relationship with a busy insensitive man isn't going to work for you even if he's only busy part of the year. You also have to decide what you'll do if you don't like the response (or lack thereof), or if he agrees to make a small effort and then consistently fails to do so again.

3.) Cut your losses. Sometimes even the perfect man isn't capable of being the right man for you. (and vice versa :D) You cant expect him to be anything other than what he is right now. Bow out gracefully with a simple notification that you need something different at this time, and wish him well. If he wants to know more than that, he'll ask. Then move on with your life, grateful that you've gained insights about yourself and your own needs.

It all boils down to what you decide your minimum needs are, and if he is both willing and able to meet them as often as you require. And if not, can you live with that? Do you want to live with that? Is there enough else there to overcome or look past that?

mythicat
09-28-2004, 10:26 AM
Remember, when he calls, you are equals. No subbing. Tell him it is that important.

Spike

Maybe...but as e.b. said:


It actually ended up being in an M/s context as well since my attempts to discuss matters as equals hadn't impressed upon him the severity of my troubles. However, that seemed to help to shock him enough to get him to realize a bit more of what I'm going through.

Sometimes making it a D/s-M/s conversation acts as a reminder to the Dom (or sub) of his (or her) responsibilities. Reinforces to both parties that they have agreed to certain obligations above and beyond the context of a vanilla relationship. And one or the other is slackin' off on the job! ;)

allalone46
09-28-2004, 12:11 PM
:( Pandora. I am sorry to here everything. Know you need to start asking yuur self a real hard question. I didn't want to say it, and I hope you can work it out. I do hope you can work it out.

Pandora's Box
09-29-2004, 03:01 PM
Well... the dialogue has begun. I finally did hear from him. To be honest... I wasn't thrilled with his answers. And of course another interuption.

So I said what I needed to say in an email and left him a voice mail message.

This isn't going to be easy. But I love this man so much, I can't even begin to understand it sometimes.

It is going to be a long process. But if he's willing to put in the efforts to fix things, I will be very happy to stay with him.

I am now in "wait mode" again. Awaiting his reactions and what he has to say to what I've written and what I've said.

Keep your fingers crossed for us. Goodness knows mine are.

e.b.
09-29-2004, 06:40 PM
Pandora,

Wow, I feel like I could've written pretty much the exact same post that you just did above. So please know that I'm thinking good thoughts for you as I think them for my own D/s relationship.

I don't know about you, but dealing with all this is kind-of tearing me up...and I hate that I have trouble concentrating on school, work, etc. b/c of it. I guess it's been awhile since I was the needier of the two people in a relationship. I really care about this one though. That's what makes it so incredibly hard. :(

Take care,

eb

Texxx
09-29-2004, 06:56 PM
Well... the dialogue has begun. I finally did hear from him. To be honest... I wasn't thrilled with his answers. And of course another interuption.

So I said what I needed to say in an email and left him a voice mail message.

This isn't going to be easy. But I love this man so much, I can't even begin to understand it sometimes.

It is going to be a long process. But if he's willing to put in the efforts to fix things, I will be very happy to stay with him.

I am now in "wait mode" again. Awaiting his reactions and what he has to say to what I've written and what I've said.

Keep your fingers crossed for us. Goodness knows mine are.

I do wish you the best....Life deals U/us some hard-to-play hands at time I know.......For whatever reason W/we did not get off on the right foot....thats that.....But, I honestly do wish you both the best.....

Texxx
Gorean Master

Pandora's Box
09-29-2004, 07:13 PM
I appreciate that Texxx. Thank you. :)

Pandora's Box
09-29-2004, 07:14 PM
Pandora,

Wow, I feel like I could've written pretty much the exact same post that you just did above. So please know that I'm thinking good thoughts for you as I think them for my own D/s relationship.

I don't know about you, but dealing with all this is kind-of tearing me up...and I hate that I have trouble concentrating on school, work, etc. b/c of it. I guess it's been awhile since I was the needier of the two people in a relationship. I really care about this one though. That's what makes it so incredibly hard. :(

Take care,

eb

eb, maybe we can have coffee over IM and commiserate together sometime. :D

I wish you the best too. Time will tell. But let's both cross our fingers for each other. :)

e.b.
09-29-2004, 08:09 PM
eb, maybe we can have coffee over IM and commiserate together sometime. :D

I wish you the best too. Time will tell. But let's both cross our fingers for each other. :)

Pandora, I'd be delighted to IM...although I think I'll be having some chamomile tea instead of coffee. :) I'll send a PM (tomorrow probably) w/ my AIM info since I don't have it posted in my profile.

Texxx, I also very much appreciate your warm wishes. Thanks! :)

eb

AndrewBlack
09-30-2004, 04:59 AM
I've probably missed the boat here having just read the thread but anyway. Speaking as someone who has had an extremely time-demanding job and as a bloke; firstly, you can always make time for someone but if you only have a few hours of time a week free they become extremely valuable and the only life you have. Your partner has to understand that, it may mean that what you consider is a tiny slice of time is what he considers a lot, he may even have already sacrificed many other things to allow you even that. He may see it in those terms, like he has 4 hours a week of free time and he devotes 2 of them to you, that that is generous. It is very difficult to cut your job hours down in certain situations, sometimes it's an all-or-nothing thing with no happy part-time medium. I think if his work falls into that category, without significant seasonal variation to achieve adequate compensation, you are going to struggle in this relationship and will ultimately always be playing catch-up. If the job is here to stay and is uncompromising then you may have to accept a very small amount of time if that is genuinely all he can give. If it isn't, what does he spend his time doing that he can sacrifice to spend more time with you?

When I have been busy at work it seems like I spend very little time with my girlfriend, I do value that time a lot but I equally need free time away from her to do other things ( she gets this time while I am working evenings,weekends, nights...etc...). This need is not immediately apparent until you view things from the opposite perspective, I've had problems in previous relationships from this issue and inequalities in the balance of housework that did not acknowledge that I worked over 3 times as many hours a week than my partner. I'm blithering away from the point now so I'll stop:D

Secondly, expecting someone to pick up on your hints and being frustrated when they don't is something I've been on the recieving end of; nearly always asking, 'Why didn't you just say so explicitly ?' . I know it's the stereotypical Venus/Mars guff but I do think you need to be very specific with your man. There are seldom relationship problems that get better resolution than from an intimate and honest discussion with all cards laid on the table. Sometimes it may be scary to do this because we're afraid that it may end 'badly', I think it's better to work things through than to have the uncertainty and constant nagging of unresolved issues. You may find a very acceptable compromise. My frank advice would be to make time (hours) for a face to face discussion with complete honesty on both sides. If you don't think he has time for E-mails and such this should be better and also something so important surely deserves proper attention.

Hope you sort your life out

Pandora's Box
09-30-2004, 08:50 AM
Thank you Andrew. :)

It's never too late to offer words from personal experience.

I think one of the most surprising things about this is how many people are in a similar situation. To be honest... I had no idea that this was such a problem for so many. Naive perhaps, but honest.

I fight the urge to nag because I don't want to make him feel bad. Especially for something like a work schedule that is hard to work around. And I don't want him to ever think he can't or shouldn't be with me because it will make him feel bad. That's not my "job", so to speak. ;)

This has definitely been enlightening to say the least.

Granted, I do believe there are certain small things he could do but does not. And I would like him to. But Rome wasn't built in a day. I love him... so I try to be patient. And that's no small task for me. Patience is a life long struggle of mine.

I don't want to give him up. He means far too much to me for that. I just wish he could spare more time for me... but you know the saying... "if wishes were fishes..."

Most importantly, when I look down into myself, I do believe him. I believe he is being honest. And I do believe he is trying. Not as hard as he could mind you, but the same could probably be said for me patience wise.

It's just so damn hard sometimes...

allalone46
09-30-2004, 08:57 AM
You read in the paper, or see on TV some big personality that has just split do to unreclonsilable differencees. If Thay only new. If something is worth having and or in this case keeping than you have to keep working at it, and working , and working.

Texxx
09-30-2004, 06:23 PM
I would really like to hear what everyone thinks are the responsibilities of a dominant/master to his submissive. It's something that I think I may be confused on.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you. :)


But I'll be wrong every time you need help.....If indeed ...you get the help from SOMEONE as the result of My being WRONG. *S* I do not have to be "RIGHT", to feel "GOOD".

I would be more than happy to share with you how W/we got thru much the same times and you and your Master/Dom/BF/Lover are now going thru.

I'll be up front and tell yah that I do think that you neeed more time...much more time in fact.

That having been said ...... There was a time ( 5 years give or take) when My girl and I first got together where I was working QUITE OFTEN as many as 20 hours a day. I would come home supper was on the table. Once showered, I would eat....and go to bed. Wake up...and do it again. I frankly never gave it much though about my girl, (IN THAT REGUARD) honestly .... I HAD to do what I was driven to do.....Make a comfortable home for the girl I was responsible for and I might add totally in love with.....Did I actually think that thought.....nope.....It was just Me to do so.

How did she deal with it ....just like I did....You see, we both knew that there was light at the end of the tunnel and if in fact if there wasn't we would build a fire there when we got there ....We totally believed in that light. We did not believe that what we had was a 50/50 thing....it's 100% both ways. There was no turning back...that door was CLOSED.

Now I'll say that even with My schedule I found more time for her than you are now getting.....You are being abused, nothing short. In fact if I were in your shoes and if you are being totally honest ..... I would be certain that He was a clever Married guy.... and I was the "piece" on the side.

I agree that you should in no un-certain terms "LAY THE LAW DOWN". There is nothing in this old world that is more important than YOU. Without your self esteem and pride you are Nothing. Do not allow him to rob you of this all important person.

This world is full of people that do not wish to give 100% to a relationship and that is fine.....I have no problem with that ....none......But I ask them to go buy a blow up doll ....or get a bigger dildo...do whatever it takes to keep from hurting people that are willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES ....to make the relationship work for both P/people.

Even in Gor.....the best Master's listen to their girls. Wanna piss a True Gorean Master off ..... just tell Him you, "had a feeling that was going to happen ... but i did not speak up."

Texxx
Gorean Master
" To increase the depth of a river you dame it up ..... To increase your depth of understanding ..... you let it flow." Hook Tooth Louie

Pandora's Box
09-30-2004, 07:32 PM
Texxx, I appreciate your input into the situation.

The thought of him being married has crossed my mind in the past. But... I've been misled by married men before and learned their signs. The only sign he shares in common is the time factor. Heh, although oddly enough the married men that have misled me in the past have actually had more time for me than he has lately. But... then the mistress does tend to get that, as it is an "escape" for him.

I honestly don't think he is married. I've talked to his sisters and work associates. I can't imagine that his sisters would be a party to that type of deception. Plus I've never met a married man that discussed his desire to start a family with me.

I think most of the difficulties come down to the realities of an on-line relationship. We are currently discussing the "meeting". We're trying to plan for the end of next month. His birthday. That would be a nice present for him. :) (And for me. :D )

We had a nice productive talk today. About compromise and the importance of coming together and the absolute necessity of him spending more time with me. My feelings of neglect will not go away until that happens. And he knows this now.

I told him I was willing to put more effort into being patient and understanding of his hellacious work schedule if he would put more successful effort into making time for us. That's a start.

One of the things that stuck out to me the most that you said, was about each person giving 100%. Knowing that there was no going back. I thank you for that. As I think that's an important point of discussion that I hadn't thought of. One that needs to be discussed. I do know that I will have to give what you said in that regard more thought before I discuss it with him. I would like to have an organized thought process before I bring it up.

Again, thank you.

Mobius
10-01-2004, 03:11 AM
You know your giving him the hand in the relationship. He should be chasing after you. But by falling for his game you are chasing after him.

For what ever it is worth. I think you should walk away and he will come when he is ready. Then you have the hand. As it should be. BDSM or no BDSM, :)

Men should chase women not the other way around. Not natural.

mythicat
10-01-2004, 06:18 AM
Men should chase women not the other way around. Not natural.Hear Hear!!

But at the same time, keep in mind that some guys don't (or won't) take the bait. If you choose to walk away, you have to be prepared to keep walking should he not come rushing to stop you.

AndrewBlack
10-01-2004, 06:54 AM
I couldn't disagree more, and I feel very strongly about this.

Don't play games with your partner. They may not turn out the way you want and may add additional complications to an already difficult situation. An up front approach will benefit you most in the long term.

mythicat
10-01-2004, 08:50 AM
True...he should've been chasing after her from the beginning. ;)

It's too late to turn that around now except through communication...if even that would work. Habits hard to break, etc and so forth.

Pandora's Box
10-01-2004, 09:08 AM
I'm not good at playing games. I just don't seem to have the knack for it. I'm a shoot from the hip type of gal.

He did do the chasing to begin with. Although oddly enough, I don't really consider myself chasing after him.

More like, poking him in the ass and reminding him I'm here. Heh. :rolleyes:

Mobius
10-01-2004, 09:37 AM
I'm not good at playing games. I just don't seem to have the knack for it. I'm a shoot from the hip type of gal.

He did do the chasing to begin with. Although oddly enough, I don't really consider myself chasing after him.

More like, poking him in the ass and reminding him I'm here. Heh. :rolleyes:
you are not playing games, He is. The more you chase after him, The more he is going to turn you into a phyko stalker lady.

He considers you his. (dont buy the milk when you can get it free etc)

The more you chase the more he is going to make you chase him. Back off, give him space. He will come after you, I promis you that. Just go out get your self a big fat container of eddys dubble fudge chocolate and a stack of DVD's and camp out for a weekend. If he has not had the usual 83 phone msg and 256 emails. He will wonder what is going on and call you. Make him think you have a life with out him. And make him want to be a part of it.

mythicat
10-01-2004, 10:44 AM
you are not playing games, He is. The more you chase after him, The more he is going to turn you into a phyko stalker lady.

He considers you his. (dont buy the milk when you can get it free etc)

The more you chase the more he is going to make you chase him. Back off, give him space. He will come after you, I promis you that. Just go out get your self a big fat container of eddys dubble fudge chocolate and a stack of DVD's and camp out for a weekend. If he has not had the usual 83 phone msg and 256 emails. He will wonder what is going on and call you. Make him think you have a life with out him. And make him want to be a part of it.
The "kitty" treatment doesn't work when the target has no time to respond appropriately. Besides, if she were a cat being treated like this by her owner she'd have a nice soft cushion and all the tuna she could eat at the neighbor's house by now. :p

Pandora's Box
10-01-2004, 11:47 AM
Hehehe Very true Mythicat.

I've tried that route - giving space and time to have him come to me. He's oblivious. LOL Lordy, all Friday, goodness knows I've tried. He does come eventually, but his schedule isn't something he can rearrange just because of my hurt feelings.

But... then on the upside, learning to confront him with my displeasure has been a fantastic growing experience for me. As I haven't always been able to clearly verbalize or express what I need, where my problems are.

So there are plusses to the situation. But then my mother also taught me to look for that silver lining.

The main thing is that I want an honest solution. One borne of honest compromise and desire. And... I do believe we are working towards that. Time, discussions and effort will get us there more than any mindgames or behavioral/emotional manipulations.

Finding_Fantasy
10-02-2004, 12:09 AM
Of the nine items there the only one that is not an essential part of the contribution of both sides to any close relationship is '8. Ability to guide'.

I would have to disagree with you here, Spike. In a way, the submissive does need to guide the Dominant for the Dominant cannot know what the submissive expects, wants, or needs without guidance from the submissive. As far as I am aware, Dominants are not mind readers. ;)

Pandora, to me it sounds that you know exactly what you want and need from your dominant. Don;t let anyone else's short sightedness and negitivity deter you from what you feel is what will work for you. I am sure that you are well aware that no one is perfect all of the time -or any of the time- and didn't need it pointed out - especially so rudely. Stick to your guns and don't settle until you have what you are looking for.

mythicat
10-02-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by spike
Of the nine items there the only one that is not an essential part of the contribution of both sides to any close relationship is '8. Ability to guide'.


I would have to disagree with you here, Spike. In a way, the submissive does need to guide the Dominant for the Dominant cannot know what the submissive expects, wants, or needs without guidance from the submissive. As far as I am aware, Dominants are not mind readers. ;)
(Psst - I think he was saying that's the one thing not essential in vanilla relationships. It's the one characteristic BDSM relationships have that vanilla relationships don't...at least not so overtly (my opinion).

Pandora's Box
10-03-2004, 02:36 PM
It's over.

I opened the door. He never walked through.

spike
10-03-2004, 02:46 PM
It's over.

I opened the door. He never walked through.Fair lady, we are all sad with you. There are many men who know how to use doors. Next time ... you will know what to do. Always gain from what you learn.

Spike

Spencergee
10-03-2004, 03:10 PM
It's over.

I opened the door. He never walked through.

His loss. :(

(and you can bake as well)! :)

BDSM_Tourguide
10-03-2004, 03:17 PM
His loss. :(

(and you can bake as well)! :)


It was a rather nice-looking cake, wasn't it? ;)

e.b.
10-03-2004, 03:18 PM
Pandy,

I'm sorry to hear that. You deserve better. Let me know if I can do anything to help,

eb

Wontworry
10-03-2004, 03:32 PM
That's shit Pan. But please. If its over then its over. Don't go back. It will only happen again.

mythicat
10-04-2004, 10:01 AM
Pandora, you're an incredible woman with much to offer. Time to find a guy who will cherish that. *nod*

Pandora's Box
10-07-2004, 12:54 PM
He did a 180 on me.

I have waited to post so as not to jump the gun.

But...

He sold the club for "us"... :eek:

I was... stunned to say the least. But the club was under "financial pressures" anyway.

So now... it's a whole new us. I never wanted to give him up, but when he faced the prospect of losing me and us... he made some hard decisions.

The future has yet to be written, but at least now we have a good fighting chance.

I've never had a man that I love so much love me that much to give up something like that. Ever.

And yes. I'm very happy. :) :) :)

You guys have been incredibly supportive of me. I only hope that I am given the chance to return the favor in the future. It is your strength and support I drew on. Without it... I don't even want to think of how much harder it would have been. I give you my thanks and my gratitude.

spike
10-07-2004, 01:35 PM
He did a 180 on me.

I have waited to post so as not to jump the gun.
But...
He sold the club for "us"... :eek:

...

And yes. I'm very happy. :) :) :) Pandora you are right not to jump guns but this has to be the best news we've heard from you. I thought your recent posts had been much lighter in tone. Now I know why. I am happy for you.


You guys have been incredibly supportive of me. I only hope that I am given the chance to return the favor in the future.I'm sure we're all planning to have relationship crises just so you can help. :D What are friends for?

Spike

e.b.
10-07-2004, 02:15 PM
Pandora,

Hooray! It's great to know things are improving. :cool:

And, I agree, just having so many supportive, understanding people to chat with on these forums, makes the difficult spots so much easier. Thanks, guys!

eb

p.s.--It must be "wake-up week" for half-asleep doms as I had a very reassuring discussion with mine today too. :)

Mobius
10-07-2004, 04:42 PM
While I am so glad that you are getting sorted out. Even though Lord Mobius was planing on abducting you and putting you to work in His Dungeon as a trainer. But now that you are going to be busy.. :)

Pandora's Box
10-07-2004, 04:58 PM
Thanks everyone! :)

Tee hee, Mobius, while I appreciate the offer, my Master tends to be a wee bit possessive. :D

I'll watch from the sidelines.

Wontworry
10-07-2004, 05:53 PM
Fingers (and everything else) crossed Pan. I so hope this works for you.

Sailor861
10-07-2004, 06:39 PM
Dear Pandy: On behalf of all your friends here at the library, I am sure we all join in wishing you all success in your future endeavors. From my chair, I was pleased and proud to be able to walk you through the difficult days you have just had and I sincerely hope the future is as bright as you can possibly make it.

With every best wish,

Sincerely,

Sailor861 :D



He did a 180 on me.

I have waited to post so as not to jump the gun.

But...

He sold the club for "us"... :eek:

I was... stunned to say the least. But the club was under "financial pressures" anyway.

So now... it's a whole new us. I never wanted to give him up, but when he faced the prospect of losing me and us... he made some hard decisions.

The future has yet to be written, but at least now we have a good fighting chance.

I've never had a man that I love so much love me that much to give up something like that. Ever.

And yes. I'm very happy. :) :) :)

You guys have been incredibly supportive of me. I only hope that I am given the chance to return the favor in the future. It is your strength and support I drew on. Without it... I don't even want to think of how much harder it would have been. I give you my thanks and my gratitude.

Hokeye22
10-07-2004, 07:01 PM
Hi PB
read all about it last days..
know you'll come out of it stronger and wiser,,,
as all your friends - me too an ear and a hug
Hokeye22