Voting Rights

[embre]

I posted this on another forum I frequent as well as my Live Journal (http://www.livejournal.com/~embre) and thought it may make an interesting thread here as well. I searched to make sure it hadn't been asked before and couldn't find a thread on it. So, if there was and I missed it, I apologize. If not, then great :)
So there goes:
slaves: Does your Master/Mistress tell you who to vote for?
Owners: Do you tell your slave who to vote for?
Do you believe it's right/wrong to order something like this?

[Pandora's Box]

I'm staunchly political, and actually one of my pre-requisites for a dominant was similar political views. I won't butt heads with my dominant over political issues. I will not allow anyone to tell me how to cast my vote. Dominant or not. My paycheck, my taxes, my choice. ;)

[e.b.]

I'm staunchly political, and actually one of my pre-requisites for a dominant was similar political views. I won't butt heads with my dominant over political issues. I will not allow anyone to tell me how to cast my vote. Dominant or not. My paycheck, my taxes, my choice. ;)



I agree with your comments, Pandora. While my Dom and I have very similar political views anyway, which makes it less of an actual issue and more theoretical, we both agree that a responsibility such as voting is a vanilla world right and thus we are on equal terms. We can debate issues but neither of us would be presumptious enough to tell the other how to vote. Of course if I just didn't bother to vote, I could easily be punished for that since it was an irresponsible action not just a difference of opinion.

I have, however, heard of M/s relationships in which the slave is expected to vote as told. For me, it's really a question of limits. If the slave in question accepted this practice as part of her subservience to her master, then that's their choice and I'll respect it as such. It's something that needs to be explicitly stated at the start of the relationship though as it could certainly be a deal-breaker for many.

eb

[chattel69]

I agree with your comments, Pandora. While my Dom and I have very similar political views anyway, which makes it less of an actual issue and more theoretical, we both agree that a responsibility such as voting is a vanilla world right and thus we are on equal terms. We can debate issues but neither of us would be presumptious enough to tell the other how to vote. Of course if I just didn't bother to vote, I could easily be punished for that since it was an irresponsible action not just a difference of opinion.eb

Ditto, I agree with both of these statements and feel voting is something which all adult should do with an educated thought.

[Mobius]

There was a recent article in the paper that became good fare in the talk radio. About how many couples that got married with out discussing politics have a Major problem in the bedroom during political season's.

They were discussing one couple that have been together for over 20 years he is a Republican and she an alleged republican. But he found out that she was only pretending and only married him to cancel out his vote. While she parroted ever thing he said in front of him she would vote Democratic to cancel out his vote.

The Article also went on to say that when it came to marital congress all participation stopped. It did not matter if it was a dem wife married to a repub husband or vice a versa. Politics just kills sex.

That is one thing that I have had to learn the hard way. I stay away from any Dem v Rep or Rep V Dem's discusions.

Frankly I have to come to the belief that I am not happy with either party.

[allalone46]

I'm a conservative not a republican, I just vote that way do to thay aline themself mostly conservativly. For know thay have the better chance of doing in congress that is more in line that I believe in.

[new master]

IMHO requireing a slave to vote for you political benifite is like denying her/him a major part of themselves. i prefer a strong minded slave one of great intelligence and even enjoy have political or socialogical debate with her if i didnt enjoy her mind and only wanter her to act as comanded without thought i would have bought a robot to do house chores (yes they do exist outside science-fiction) and a blow up doll.

[slavelucy]

IMHO requireing a slave to vote for you political benifite is like denying her/him a major part of themselves. i prefer a strong minded slave one of great intelligence and even enjoy have political or socialogical debate with her if i didnt enjoy her mind and only wanter her to act as comanded without thought i would have bought a robot to do house chores (yes they do exist outside science-fiction) and a blow up doll.

i agree with you new master and i think you put that really well. If someone enjoys every element of spending time with their sub, then that includes knowing what they think, talking to them, debating with them etc, and to start making decisions such as who they vote for would slowly but surely kill off any will to be who they really are. (or they'd tell you to sod off, which would put stress on the Ds element of the relationship).

sl

[rallan]

Yeah the whole notion seems kind of alien to me, like a throwback to the good old days when the suffragettes had just gained the right to vote for women and there were anecdotes abounding of good old-fashioned husbands who are over the moon now that they can vote for their candidate of choice twice.



rallan

[embre]

IMHO requireing a slave to vote for you political benifite is like denying her/him a major part of themselves. i prefer a strong minded slave one of great intelligence and even enjoy have political or socialogical debate with her if i didnt enjoy her mind and only wanter her to act as comanded without thought i would have bought a robot to do house chores (yes they do exist outside science-fiction) and a blow up doll.
i totally agree with you as well. MasterN doesn't want a robot either. He prefers to have a slave who can think critically and back up her convictions with logic and reason. Makes for a much more interesting relationship.
However, His mindset is that He does have the right to tell me who to vote for. Just as He has the right to tell me to walk down the street naked. But, on both accounts He never would. Having a right and exercising it are different. A Master must weigh the consequences of every order. And telling someone who to vote for would in 99% of the relationships out there would more than likely be, as e.b said, a "deal breaker".
Master has ordered me TO vote though. Something i'm very happy He does. i'd never voted in a local election until we met and usually in those cased i will ask Him who we should vote for. That is only because He's kept up on the issues and is more informed than me.
People tend to hold political ideals much like religion. But, unlike religion so many don't take political beliefs into consideration when picking a partner and don't feel the strain of it until an election. Heck, this election is even causing strife in my own family. So it was quite interesting to me to see if it was affecting any kinky relationships and how it was dealt with. i must admit i'm pleasantly surprised that so many leave it up to the slave to make up their own mind.

[slavelucy]

However, His mindset is that He does have the right to tell me who to vote for. Just as He has the right to tell me to walk down the street naked. But, on both accounts He never would. Having a right and exercising it are different.

What an incredibly fascinating point...and one that you put very well embre, if i may say so. *looks deep in thought*

Having given it more thought, i think i'd probably agree with you. Something about saying a dominant CANNOT tell a sub how to vote doesn't sit easily with me...but, equally, something about them actually doing so makes me equally uncomfortable. Thus, you solve it by saying he does have a right to do so, he just wouldn't excercise it...i like that.

The only point i would make is the one you raise about a dominant forcing someone to vote. Whilst i very much believe everyone should use their vote (especially women), there is a possibility that it isn't out of apathy that a person doesn't vote, but as a (albeit small) statement of disatisfaction at the political process or political parties up for election....in that sense, they are very much stating an opinion.

Anyway, interesting point, thanks for sharing it.

sl

P.S. As an aside, i really really like your signature line, embre.

[e.b.]

sl, you beat me to the compliment but I was impressed enough to figure I'd repeat it...

embre, the quotation sl mentioned struck me also as the perfect wording for the point being made. :) Btw, this thread has been fascinating; I hope you'll post more in the future.

eb

[spike]

Whilst i very much believe everyone should use their vote (especially women), there is a possibility that it isn't out of apathy that a person doesn't vote, but as a (albeit small) statement of disatisfaction at the political process or political parties up for election....in that sense, they are very much stating an opinion.As an illustration, the ward I live in has only Labour and Conservative candidates available for local elections. I would never willingly vote for either party. If I were a sub and under orders to vote, I would have to spoil my paper by writing in a huge 'NONE OF THE ABOVE'. In fact, I just don't go.

Spike, dom-ish and lazy

[Pandora's Box]

What an incredibly fascinating point...and one that you put very well embre, if i may say so. *looks deep in thought*

Having given it more thought, i think i'd probably agree with you. Something about saying a dominant CANNOT tell a sub how to vote doesn't sit easily with me...but, equally, something about them actually doing so makes me equally uncomfortable. Thus, you solve it by saying he does have a right to do so, he just wouldn't excercise it...i like that.



I'm going to be the dissenter on this. Sure he can tell me, but I would tell him to go to hell. It's one of my limits though. To me, the thought that he has a right to tell me how to vote crosses the line on safe, sane and consensual.

Frankly any dom that thought he had the right to tell me how I should vote is barking up the wrong tree with me. But again, that's a hard limit with me. I am staunchly and rabidly political minded and the right and responsibility to vote is one I hold dear.

The day a dominant thought he had the right to tell me how to vote is the day that he would no longer be considered a dominant in my eyes, but a bully using his position of power for his own gain.

[slavelucy]

I'm going to be the dissenter on this. Sure he can tell me, but I would tell him to go to hell.

This is what i'm saying though, i wouldn't tell him to go to hell, i don't think it'd be necessary, i'd trust him not to tell me who to vote for in the first place because he knows me for who i am.

i do take your point though Pan, i am also fairly political, but i don't see it as being much different from many, many issues one would trust a dominant on..i kinda feel that being a submissive female i'm already kicking Emily Pankhurst et al in the teeth as it is! :D

sl

[Pandora's Box]

I've got my steel toed boots on. Do you? :D

Yes, I just think that the difference is that I don't think a dominant has the right to even think he can tell a submissive how to vote. ;)

Granted I respect those who have made decisions for themselves in that regard. And realize that it is up to the limits and desires of those involved.

So it comes down to what my opinion is for me and my relationships. To me personally a dom that even thought he had that right would not and could not be a dom to me.

[slavelucy]

I've got my steel toed boots on. Do you? :D

Yes, I just think that the difference is that I don't think a dominant has the right to even think he can tell a submissive how to vote. ;)

Granted I respect those who have made decisions for themselves in that regard. And realize that it is up to the limits and desires of those involved.

So it comes down to what my opinion is for me and my relationships. To me personally a dom that even thought he had that right would not and could not be a dom to me.

*bends down tying up laces*

Steady on old girl. ;)

Ahem..i don't think the boots are necessary though...i'd say we were pretty much agreeing, the only difference being that i wouldn't lay it down as a limit or remove it as a possibility, i'd just trust my dom not to tell me who to vote for, as i trust him in most decisions. If i didn't he would, by default, not be my dom any more.

sl

[GaryWilcox]

I won't give a sub an odd look for telling me he/she voted the way the dom told her to. It wouldn't surprise me at all that s/he got off in some small way, making a vote that had nothing to do with what the sub wanted but was meant to please someone else.

Wouldn't surprise me to hear some doms make such a command to their subs; or surprise me to hear of a number of new subs looking for doms come November.

[Mobius]

Isn't it nice that this political "fur-ball" only comes up once every four years.

No person, Dom or other wise does not have the right to tell or compel another to vote one way or another.

That being for your every day master / submissive relationship.

Now if it were a 100 percent power exchange. Were she was truly property. Living in a cage. Totally Dependant on the Dominant Master for her 3 squares and a place to sleep. Having given up her identity, Papers etc. She could not vote regardless. Of her beliefs whether they be Conservative or liberal. Ah yes my dream girl.

Politics is a relationship killer. You either have to agree to what ever your partner is saying or you end up fighting a totally useless battle trying to convince the other that they are wrong. It does not ever work. I as a conservitive can not convince a liberal that they are wrong and that there arguments make no sense. And are based on a pack of Michel Moor's lies. And like wise A liberal can not convince me that bush lied and he has ties to Saudi family.

So I stay out of these discussions and when ask who I am gong to vote for I shrug and say that I am not happy with either of the candidates. Walk away get in my bus and do my route.

My recommendation is to tell your partner what ever he wants to hear. Then vote the way you want to vote. It only comes up once every 4 years and when all is said and done it really does not matter whether Bush wins or Kerry.
Come January 1st we will still be in Iraq and our troops are still going to be blown up. If gore had won. Sodom would still be in power and we would be on our 80th UN sanction on Iraq. We would be paying 8 dollars a gallon for gas. and would be driving little smart cars. That would be peeled off the wheels of big semi trucks.

The 1000 troops that have died. Would be alive but, would be replaced by the 10,000 people in the US that were killed by the terrorist that would be running rampant in the streets.

I think I need to win the Lottery and spend my life on a beach in Samoa. They dig fat guys down there. :)

[mythicat]

My solution? Kink or vanilla, don't get into a serious long term relationship with someone you have fundamentally different beliefs from. No relationship needs that kind of extra strain; they're work enough to maintain without it. Basic agreement over politics and religion were the hardest of hard limits for me in both r/l and online commitments. And add childrearing philosophy to that list for r/l marriage consideration. Some things are just too important to fight over as far as I'm concerned. And arguing aside...the fact that we are able to attend church together (and have frighteningly similar belief histories!), and that we're able to go to the polls together and vote as one voice, is in itself very unifying and helps bond us that much closer together as a couple. I can't imagine being at odds with my partner over such basic tenets. :eek:

Of course the fact that we also share a warped sense of humor about those basic tenets doesn't hurt either! :D

[midnightsky]

I'd never ever ask my sub to vote a specific way. Sure, I encourage people to vote, and im quite liberal so i obviously have a slant of how i view the world. Then again, Im never in anything longterm (vanilla or kink) with someone who doesnt agree with me politically, socially, and economically. i dont blame ppl for not wanting to vote- Im sorry, but the canidates are all aweful imo (and lol much much more conservative than me).

In the pres elections you arent actually canceling out a vote though, since its by electorals and its whoever gets the most votes (and the electors are reak people too! are you worried? cause i am :)) so even if you could cancel out someones vote, it wouldnt matter since our constitution says we have to use the electoral college

[Master13]

My first reaction to this was: isn't that a federal crime? It would be interesting to see how a court ruled on it. Is it legal to order someone to vote a certain way if he/she agreed to do as you command out of his/her free will? Of course it would never actually go to court because no one but the couple involved would know.

[embre]

My first reaction to this was: isn't that a federal crime? It would be interesting to see how a court ruled on it. Is it legal to order someone to vote a certain way if he/she agreed to do as you command out of his/her free will? Of course it would never actually go to court because no one but the couple involved would know.
In many states and counties just being involved in BDSM is a crime. Heck I can't imagine the whole idea of consensual slavery coming into a court.