(long)You can't serve two Masters or three or four.... (rant/commentery/sounding off)

[Eraser]

This is personal and full of spelling errors. This is a rant about something I've experienced yet again. So take it or leave. If the shoe fits wear it( before you say it don't fit make sure its on the right foot)

I've been in the lifestyle full time for 9 years now, and sceneing for a while, playing the online game even longer, and reading/writing about it for a hell of alot longer. Mush it all together you got about 15 years total in there that I have been involved at some level.

My slave and I have often had an additional submissive even one for each or more then one for each since we have been together. we were poly even before we went full time into the lifestyle.

For me one of my greatest passions is training, I love to take a girl that has only limited or no experience in the scene. Teaching her etiquette and protocol (Old Guard way) teaching that the being a submissive is nothing to be ashamed of and helping her grow and nature then letting her move on to find her own Master.

It seems fairly common (and I’ve just finished reading a threat on married and cheating in the BDSM community) that married women who are looking for a kink relationship can’t often find it at home. There husbands are so ingrained in there head about women’s rights (part of that right is the right to say I want to be treated like this) or you never hit a woman (you do when she begs really nicely). So these married women get permission and go out to find there dark evil sadistic Master to fulfill all there wicked fantasies.

But what these and many other submissives seem to forget, is regardless whether or not they have a BDSM relationship at home, they still have a husband at home who is a Master of sorts, you may be equal in the relationship, but your sceneing and playing by his permission. Also, you may have kids, kids are another type of Master, in the sense you have a strong responsibility to them.

To add another Master to that equation complicates things tremendously, First you have to get your husbands permission before you can spend time with your BDSM Master, Then you have to make sure the kids are going to be taken care of, THEN you can go play. That puts the one your suppose to be submitting to on the third rung under 2 other Masters. What if you’re a career minded woman and your job puts heavy demands on you? That’s another Master to contend with.

After all that and with all that how can you honestly devote and give yourself even for a short period of time to serve another?

If you do not have time to assume the role you want so badly, even if that time is predestinated and only short durations and you still can’t do it. Don’t keep bouncing from Master to Master looking for the “One” who is “Strong enough” or whatever it is you seem to think was wrong with the last one. Maybe he released you cause he was tired of waiting around and you never seemed to have time.

If you don’t have the time, don’t take on the role under the pretence of serving in a relationship, call it what it is a kinky fuck buddy you go see on the weekend who you play out his or your fantasy’s with.

To be fair to the flip side, cause I have seen this as well, Dom’s don’t harvest yourself some big stable of slaves. If you don’t have the time for your wife and kids how the hell are you going to have time for a slave?

Learn the word commitment people and when you make one keep it.

[MrJerseyGuy]

Pretty heavy stuff! I'm not sure where to start with a reply. I'd love to know what happened to you that precipitated that post.

HHHmmm...

For me personally, I have no problem separating love and sex. Sex is always better when you're in love...but by no means a prerequisit. I guess it depends on whether or not your into it as a lifestyle...or for fun. In a lifestyle arrangement, I can see where it would be a problem.

I'm not married but was for 11 years (with kid) . I had no problem giving my wife a kiss on the cheek and telling her to "have fun" when she wanted to go have sex with someone else. And she did...a lot. Fucking just for the sake of fucking, bdsm oriented or otherwise, was just recreation...like going to a movie or something. I'd like to hear more about what made you feel compelled to post that before I give a full answer

[Eraser]

It seems that my comments have been misintepreted by more then one person.

I'm not speaking about being poly, or even having casual relationships away from a primary, all that is just fine with me and I would be a hypocrite if I said otherwise.

I also believe in the Hebrew sense of love, not the english version. In english we have 1 word for love. You love your parents, your family, your dog, humanity, your spouce, your neighbor. its all one word. But in hebrew there are 7 words for love each meaning a different thing and a different distinct type.


As far as what happened. I'll throw you the cliff's notes version. Basiclly I met a sub that I liked, she had alot of potential (at least in words) to grow into something spectacular. After dicussions and negotiations and agreements I outline a simple schedule, 3 weekends a month. which I also asked her husband directly about and he was fine with it as well.

First month was great, the next month something came up one weekend and I accepted the excuse. the next month again she tried to beg out of a weekend and was punished for it. the next month it was 2, then it was all three, after the second month on not coming down I final determined it was in my best intrest to release her she wasn't serious enough to me.

The first thought that came to my mind, and I am sure yours as well, is she wasn't interested anymore or something along those lines. So when she came on-line I told her that she was released. She begged and pleaded, I simply explain why. Then she got in her car and drove the hour and a half down here to plead and beg again. promising and begging. The fact she drove down told me it wasn't a lack of intrest so I gave her one last chance. Sure enough Friday night came and there was no knock at my door. yet there she was on-line. So I released her last night for the final time.

She couldn't handle the commitments she made and she made to many, her family, her friends, Socializing. She wanted to many things. I guess I am the fool in all this since this isn't the first time.

[jaeangel]

You know, you have a point.
I hadn't thought of all that before. Well, maybe I did, but not in as clear and concise a way as you just laid out.
I posted a thread in the personals here on the Library; my hubby and I were looking for another couple or a Domme to whom I could go every one in a while when my desire to submit and be used got strong. I think I specified in the ad that it wouldn't be a regular thing, due to hubby's work schedule, the fatc that I don't drive, and the fact that we have two toddlers...but I hadn't thought of how unfair that might be to the Domme/Dominant/couple.
Yes, I already have a lot of Masters; my boys, first and foremost; they need me like no one else does. Then there's hubby, who gets put third down on the list; not really fair to him, but he understands because they're his kids too. And then there's my writing. I started writing last August as a relief from the boredom of staying home with the children all day long...but when I discovered that people liked it and actually considered me a good writer, I got more into it. Now I actually have an informal fan base, and am looking to get published hopefully in the near future.I entered my first writing contest last Nov, and to my surprise won third over some other more experienced 'Net writers. So I kept at it. Now it's more like a hobby/obsession/mental illness.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that I think I really should sit down and consider whether I need another responsibility to yet another person in my life. My kids, my hubby, my fans, and now...another Master/Mistress? Even if it's only a couple days a month? I do have to think about it.
Thank you for pointing that out.

[redEva]

Be it rant or what ever it might, you made great point! We have grown to expect it all, and even when we know we do not have enough hours in a day to carry out all the assumed responsibilities, we still tend to pile yet some more demands on our time.

It is sad thing that out of all masters we decide to serve, the one that would give us personally most satisfaction never makes the top of the list. I understand what you mean and i agree wholeheartedly with you. One has to make choices – that is not always the simplest thing to do.

[slavelucy]

You raise some really interesting points there, Merrioc, most thought provoking. The only three points i would make are:

1) Having a husband/wife/SO is not the same as having another dominant. A spouse is not a dom, they are a partner.

2) As an extension of one...the commitments to them are just that, commitments, not submission.

3) Life is about a series of commitments, and i don't feel that having to sometimes honour them is the same as or should be confused with a lack of willingness to submit.

i think all this adds up to the conclusion that if you took it to the nth degree, unless one dedicated their entire life to BDSM, it's gonna happen that sometimes life gets in the way..BUT, i understand that there is a difference in seeing a dominant purely to be trained and actually being in a Ds relationship, which is, i believe, the crux of any potential disagreement on the issue.

sl

[sweetplymate]

You raise some really interesting points there, Merrioc, most thought provoking. The only three points i would make are:

1) Having a husband/wife/SO is not the same as having another dominant. A spouse is not a dom, they are a partner.

2) As an extension of one...the commitments to them are just that, commitments, not submission.

3) Life is about a series of commitments, and i don't feel that having to sometimes honour them is the same as or should be confused with a lack of willingness to submit.

i think all this adds up to the conclusion that if you took it to the nth degree, unless one dedicated their entire life to BDSM, it's gonna happen that sometimes life gets in the way..BUT, i understand that there is a difference in seeing a dominant purely to be trained and actually being in a Ds relationship, which is, i believe, the crux of any potential disagreement on the issue.

sl

i completely agree with all three of your points...but i think ultimately the original gripe was that she had made the committment and actually set dates and then kept backing out of those dates for one reason or another...submitting or not i dont think was as much of the issue as overextending her ability to follow through with plans that were made...i have vanilla friends that are just as terrible about that sort of thing, it makes me nuts *lol* i would rather someone tell me that they are sorry but are too busy than to make plans with me and then back out at the last minute...at least if i know ahead of time then i can find something else to fill my time :)

just my take on things...

[slavelucy]

i have vanilla friends that are just as terrible about that sort of thing, it makes me nuts *lol*

LOL! Oh yeah, i agree, anyone who has a tendancy to make plans and take on too much is just plain annoying, be it connected to Ds or not! On this point i would completely agree. i still think though, that it's a case of, as you put it (well) overextending oneself as opposed to answering to two Masters, just because one of them happens to be a husband...i mean, based on that, technically every single friend, child, doctor, dentist (anyone with whom one had an appointment) is also a Master.

As i said, i largely agree with Merrioc, cancelling THAT many sessions with him is just ridiculous and entirely inappropriate, i'm just not sure about some of the conclusions of it.

sl

[Finding_Fantasy]

I don't say much anymore simply because I don't have much time but this post made me reply.

Merrioc... I may be mistaken, but it sounds to me that you are saying that a submissive should not even bother looking for a dominant if they are married with children and a career. If this is what you are saying, then I would have to say that it is an unfair statement. I know of plenty submissives who are married with kids who have found a dominant patient and tolerant enough to take on a submissive in his or her situation. That, in itself, is worth searching for.

Because they are married with children should not exclude them from searching for something that makes them happy and feel whole. To deny them something that is a part of them because they have other aspects in their life, more to do than just wait patiently on their knees begging and praying to be used as his or her master would deem fit is, in my opinion, a little arrogant.

Some people don't even realize their submissive tendencies until long after they are married with children but that does not mean that they should let their desires and instincts go to rot just because they are married with kids, especially if their spouse is okay with them pursuing that side of themselves.

I feel that it is their right to prusue this side of themselves and to find the Dominant or "One" that will accept them and willingly take any time that the submissive has to give and know that while they are together, that submissive is theirs and only theirs.

But that is only my opinion.

[spike]

But that is only my opinion.Actually, it isn't, FF. It is a very sensible and probably commonly held one. It is certainly mine.

Spike

[PopeRozen]

it seems too difficult to pull off to me, but I'm still neo.

I definetly wonder how ppl can pull off a 24/7 lifestyle with kids. you would have to hide it from them, no? I mean it would be kinda traumatic for a child to see Daddy (or a stranger) caning Mommy in the basement. (gender roles only examples). that and its so time-consuming anyways, with proper warmups and cooldowns.

But if someone were to get serious with multiple Doms, it coud be disastrous. what if you get contradictory orders? No one person can have everything they want all the time, and it seems like you'd have to be a glutton for punishment (hahaha) to try and please more than one Dom 24/7. I even wonder how satisfying a scene with more than one sub would be. The subs I know (not many, granted) like being on the bottom, and I mean down there with the catfish. Sharing a level would make them feel awkward, as would being in the middle, and I think it would be tricky to keep two people in subspace at the same time...like running back and forth between two kitchens making 2 diffferent meals.

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WOOT WOOT, 25 POSTS BABY!
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[Finding_Fantasy]

PopeRozen,

I think that the point of the orignal post was that you have others aspects in your life that "dominante" you such as your work, your kids, and your marriage aside from the BDSM one, not having multiple BDSM partners. :)

That being said, living BDSM 24/7 with children, while not easy, is not impossible. You just need to work out seemingly "harmless" phrases for when you are in front of your children. Since there is much more to BDSM than simply caning and other physical elements there is other things, such as being respectful, holding yourself a certain way, wearing or saying a certain thing while you are in front of your children, thus the dominant still has control despite the presence of children. And, if the submissive has messed up, then punishment can be reserved for a more appropriate time.

[Eraser]

a few of my comments:

the original point was simply if you make a commitment to someone, keep your commitments. you could simplify it down to someone that overschedules there time yes. But the common thing I see (the last 2 girls I've taken in) had the same issue husband, work, kids. Those three things HAVE to be taken into consideration when you make your commitment.

I normally don't like taking on a girls that are married. I have made 2 exceptions and been burned twice. well fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

After all the posts I saw in personals of vanilla married people combinded with just happened it was just an emotional rant because I was angery. My rant was targeted yes to vanilla married subs with kids. But my point was simple. Make a commitment keep it.

24/7 with kids is difficult trust me, we only have to worry about it 3 months out of the year but its a challange. That and the pre-summer clean up is always depressing.

I've seen vanilla or even single Tops do the same thing, they have so much time with friends or social life or they have built up such a stable they don't have time they have spread themselves to thin.

[embre]

it seems too difficult to pull off to me, but I'm still neo.

I definetly wonder how ppl can pull off a 24/7 lifestyle with kids. you would have to hide it from them, no? I mean it would be kinda traumatic for a child to see Daddy (or a stranger) caning Mommy in the basement. (gender roles only examples). that and its so time-consuming anyways, with proper warmups and cooldowns.

But if someone were to get serious with multiple Doms, it coud be disastrous. what if you get contradictory orders? No one person can have everything they want all the time, and it seems like you'd have to be a glutton for punishment (hahaha) to try and please more than one Dom 24/7. I even wonder how satisfying a scene with more than one sub would be. The subs I know (not many, granted) like being on the bottom, and I mean down there with the catfish. Sharing a level would make them feel awkward, as would being in the middle, and I think it would be tricky to keep two people in subspace at the same time...like running back and forth between two kitchens making 2 diffferent meals.

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WOOT WOOT, 25 POSTS BABY!
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24/7 with kids is hard for many couples I know, but not impossible. I think many people compare 24/7 with the physical aspect of BDSM too often. 24/7 doesn't mean always being collared and naked, or spending every night in the basement being caned.
It's a relationship where the power exchange permeates every aspect of your life. It's knowing 24/7 who is in charge and living it. You don't have to have long elaborate scenes to keep that dynamic going. Heck, just having a good night of vanilla sex can be time consuming. And millions of people live that every day with kids.
As for the whole rant of having a husband and Master. I've never been able to wrap my mind around that. In theory a Master is to be the #1 person in a slave's life. And that is just not possible when said slave is married. No matter what, the husband would come first.

[Curtis]

"No matter what, the husband would come first."

In theory, yes, but in practice... It's obvious from reading around the Forum (and some personal communications) that there are a LARGE number of people who fit into Merrioc's 'two masters' category. It would seem inevitable that at least some of them put their Master/Mistress first.

[learningtopleez]

Merrioc... I may be mistaken, but it sounds to me that you are saying that a submissive should not even bother looking for a dominant if they are married with children and a career. If this is what you are saying, then I would have to say that it is an unfair statement. I know of plenty submissives who are married with kids who have found a dominant patient and tolerant enough to take on a submissive in his or her situation. That, in itself, is worth searching for.

Some people don't even realize their submissive tendencies until long after they are married with children but that does not mean that they should let their desires and instincts go to rot just because they are married with kids, especially if their spouse is OK with them pursuing that side of themselves.

I feel that it is their right to pursue this side of themselves and to find the Dominant or "One" that will accept them and willingly take any time that the submissive has to give and know that while they are together, that submissive is theirs and only theirs.

But that is only my opinion.

After reading Merrioc's commentary I began to wonder if what I have been doing is fair to my Master. Then you, Finding Fantasy, wrote your piece and it said exactly what I felt. I always time my meetings with my Master when my husband is at work and my children are in school. I always do my best to take nothing from them. Slavelucy also mentioned the many appointments we all have in our lives. Appointments and work are things that we all have to do! At least I do until I win the lottery or something!! :rolleyes: True, I would love to spend more time with him or even an overnighter (nope! never done that :eek:), but there have also been times that he has canceled due to his work! It is disappointing when that happens, but we both have come to an understanding that we have lives separate from each other, yet are lucky enough to have found each other for the D/s days that we can step away from this demanding world for just awhile so that I can submit to his every want and need!

To be more honest, I am in an unhappy marriage anyway, one that has been in trouble long before my Master came along. So for me it is at times an escape from a dreary and dull life that I'm not happy with anymore. I also didn't realize that I had submissive tendencies until about three years ago, which also goes along with what FF said.

I'm truly sorry that your subs were not loyal to you Sir, but please don't group all of us that are submissive, married and with Masters outside of the relationship in the same boat! It just ain't so!! :)

[embre]

"No matter what, the husband would come first."

In theory, yes, but in practice... It's obvious from reading around the Forum (and some personal communications) that there are a LARGE number of people who fit into Merrioc's 'two masters' category. It would seem inevitable that at least some of them put their Master/Mistress first.
The more I thought about this, the more I realized that perhaps I was generalizing much in the way others do about 24/7 relationships. I was basing my idea on a very traditional marriage. And not taking into consideration the many dynamics a marriage can take on.

[Eraser]

Merrioc... I may be mistaken, but it sounds to me that you are saying that a submissive should not even bother looking for a dominant if they are married with children and a career.

No actually that isn't what I ment.

I ment that if your going to make that commitment, and you have other commitments. Make sure first of all you have the time for your first commitments and your Master. I don't expect someone to sit around and wait, and I also don't think 6 days a month is to much to ask.

I know people don't find this tell late in life or after kids. My statement was just. if you make the commitment keep it. Make sure you can keep it and don't neglect any of your other commitments, huband kids or Master. If you can balance all three. more power to you.

[Nightstriker]

*Reads all of what is written and goes buggied eyed for a moment then refocuses.*


Wow a lot of things said, and a lot of good comments and ideas. It is threads like these that I enjoy comming here so much. As a relatively new Dom to the lifestyle, learning from others experiences is great and have giving me a great deal to think about, in my own future relationships.

I do wish that I could say more though everthing that I though I could say has already been said.

[magicgrl]

"I definetly wonder how ppl can pull off a 24/7 lifestyle with kids. you would have to hide it from them, no? I mean it would be kinda traumatic for a child to see Daddy (or a stranger) caning Mommy in the basement. (gender roles only examples). that and its so time-consuming anyways, with proper warmups and cooldowns."

We have four children and it's rather simple...24/7 is not all about playing. It is rare that i get whipped, caned or anyting else. 24/7 is about Dominance and submission. Master expects me to tend to our children and He knows they come first. If i did not do this He would be very angry. i serve Him by honoring Him--this means i take care of His home, His children etc. Do we hide it from them? The scenes, yes...but geez, we hide that from everyone. We can wait to play--

*~magic~*

[Eraser]

24/7 with kids is very possible and very do-able, now if the kids are not your's and the sub and the kids live out of the house, thats where it can complicate things. I do have a daughter that visits for the summer. So its not like play stops for 3 months.

[magicgrl]

24/7 with kids is very possible and very do-able, now if the kids are not your's and the sub and the kids live out of the house, thats where it can complicate things. I do have a daughter that visits for the summer. So its not like play stops for 3 months.

Exactly--we have two that live here full time (4 and 8) and two that are part time (14 and 16.) i think the children know there may be something different about us, but we are careful and use discreation. It was harder at first--when we were still new and trying to figure things out.

After the kids head off to bed we can do what we want. Our house is such that His "chambers" is upstairs, across a 2,500 sq. foot well insulated home. We are far enough away that the kids hear nothing. As far as the D/s goes, i know what my rules are--and i would be very harshly punished if i broke a rule, knowing that He could not punish me because the kids were around.

*~magic~*