I am confused

[spicennice]

and am brand new here and new to the D/s world. I am having a bit of a issue with something - trying to translate it from my normal vanilla world to the D/s world. Sorry if this is a dumb question. I will try to keep those limited when I post here, but no promises. Please be patient with me.

When speaking about consent within a D/s relationship if the sub originally goes into a D/s relationship and says she is not comfortable with him having multiple partners, is that out of line? Is it a given that the Dom may have as many partners as he wishes?

[Briballus]

Define "comfortable." In a lot of way D/s is like vanilla, and in some ways it isn't. Yes, this is all about exchange of power, where the sub/slave cedes power to the Dom/Master. But how much power is something they both have to agree on.

So, is it out of line? Not necessarily. I'm sorry but it is hard to answer your question directly. I can tell you that I think such a limit is not uncommon for most people.

[Guera]

A BDSM relationship is something negotiated between two people. If the relationship includes play with more than one person, then each of the players needs to devise their own boundaries and dynamics, with each of the other players. There is no such thing as "The Dom" and "The Sub". Just how one person related to another. There are no rules about what works and what is right, except the basic rights of all humans, and the right to SSC and/or RACK. Google those if you don't know what they are.

[Miner]

When speaking about consent within a D/s relationship if the sub originally goes into a D/s relationship and says she is not comfortable with him having multiple partners, is that out of line? Is it a given that the Dom may have as many partners as he wishes?

No, it is not out of line to be uneasy with your dominant having multiple partners. Talk with your dominant. Let him know you aren't comfortable. If he insists on forcing you into a poly relationship, you can always walk away from the relationship.

The number of partners in a relationship is something that should be negotiated at the start. And if he takes on more submissives after agreeing there will be just the two of you, consider it as him breaking trust - because that's exactly what it is.

[spicennice]

I had set a hard limit more than once right from the beginning. Not okay with multiple partners from either of us. Thank you, I should have been more specific. Although I am new to the lifestyle, I am very aware of what is right and wrong on a human level. It was the consensual part that felt breached as I had not agreed to this. I think I needed a confirmation that what I felt was not being unfair. That I wasn't 'missing' something along the way. Thank you so much for your help.

[_ID_]

I had set a hard limit more than once right from the beginning. Not okay with multiple partners from either of us. Thank you, I should have been more specific. Although I am new to the lifestyle, I am very aware of what is right and wrong on a human level. It was the consensual part that felt breached as I had not agreed to this. I think I needed a confirmation that what I felt was not being unfair. That I wasn't 'missing' something along the way. Thank you so much for your help.

If it was a hard limit going into the relationship, and that limit is ignored. You'd be in the right to leave the relationship, without notice or reason.

[spicennice]

Thank you IDCrewDawg. Although we had not commited formally, he introduced me to BDSM. I am not entirely certain that I will continue down this road but will be posting and learning more for the next bit to see whether this is truly my slant. I learned a ton from him, and I am forever grateful as he had me realize that power can be a good thing - not just an abusive thing. He has been very good to me along the way and helped me tremendously throughout some issues that I have been dealing with. He has been a friend, a lover and a confidant. He deserves more than 'without warning' but I understand what you are saying.

I thank you all so much for your perspective. It has been so very helpful.

[VaAugusta]

Just to throw my opinion out there:

I find the notion of a dom having multiple subs a bit unsettling. It would be my estimation that most doms would not be willing to share their subs. It is this greediness that shows how hypocritical the notion of multiple subs are. I don't mean to suggest that there aren't doms that are willing to share subs, just saying that from what I've seen, it isn't the case usually.

As for your individual case, I would say that is out of line and you need to have a discussion about it. No matter what degree of control you give up, you're still a person and your concerns matter. I seriously question anyone who would try to quell that notion.

Best of luck with this!

[Ozme52]

Well... as one who does and encourages mine to both play and satisfy herself, with only a few prohibitions, one which I also practice... (actually two :rolleyes: ) I can speak from the other perspective VaAugusta.

But I see your point, most dominants tend to not share. I wouldn't share my car... but then it doesn't have a brain and can't take care of itself when being misused... ;)

The right answer, imo, for spicennice, is to point out that D/s and poly (multiple partner) are two separate topics and two separate points of conversation.

My vanilla wife and I are poly (to an extent) but she has zero interest in D/s or any type of bdsm. And many many bdsm lifestylers are 100% monogamous, male and female included, dominant and submissive included.

As they are two separate topics, you should have the two conversations... and quite frankly, you discuss poly first. If that has already happened and the dom is insistent, you may well be with the wrong person.

[Ozme52]

I had set a hard limit more than once right from the beginning. Not okay with multiple partners from either of us. Thank you, I should have been more specific. Although I am new to the lifestyle, I am very aware of what is right and wrong on a human level. It was the consensual part that felt breached as I had not agreed to this. I think I needed a confirmation that what I felt was not being unfair. That I wasn't 'missing' something along the way. Thank you so much for your help.

I'll assume you're referring to the breach of your agreements and not poly itself here.

Monogamy is not in and of itself a human norm. It's a societal norm that is currently prevalent. And not even necessarily practiced widely... but certainly is espoused widely. Many who claim monogamy are merely serial monogamists.

There are a lot of good threads within these forums and elsewhere where one can gain insights to the issues of poly v. monogamy and how they play into bdsm.

[spicennice]

Well, that is the thing Oz. Consensual is a big part of this whole thing. So, by setting the limit and his accepting that limit (I assume that not stating a problem with it is accepting it), it took away my right to negotiate if he felt that poly was a given for him. I am a bit confused as to your reference that D/s and poly are two separate things. Are you saying that poly doesn't fall under Dom limits? (not sure if that made ANY sense but try and work with me here - I am a bit muddled). To me, SSC is a big deal. He has always spoken about it as being a big deal. If we had spoken about this in true D/s fashion, is it out of line for me to believe that it should have been put out there immediately given that I expressed a need for monogamous. The fact that nothing was said about it makes this, to me, a breach of trust. On a human level. Hmmmm, okay never mind, I think I just answered my own question as to the '2 separate issues' thing. This posting was really just me trying to get at whether there was a D/s issue that I was not understanding in all of this.

Thank you so much VaAugusta for your input. This is such a beautiful lifestyle as such that everyone is allowed their feelings and opinions. So I am not judging the poly lifestyle, although it is really something I would have to think about for myself, and if it was going to be poly it would have to be poly for both of us. I guess that is the issue. I wasn't given the opportunity to make taht decsion, which is a cornerstone of D/s when choosing a partner if I understand it correctly. Thank you so much for your well wishes.

[denuseri]

When speaking about consent within a D/s relationship if the sub originally goes into a D/s relationship and says she is not comfortable with him having multiple partners, is that out of line?

No of course not. At anytime in fact, even after or during a multiple partner sistuation, one may decide its simply not their cup of tea and revoke consent to participate, or refuse to continue participating, even mid scene.

Its what Safe, sane and "consensual" is all about.

Its also perfectly ok to insist that ones partner not be ingadging in relations outside of the one they have with oneself. Polyamory and or open relationships and or multiple partners are not a given in a bdsm relationship.

Is it a given that the Dom may have as many partners as he wishes?

Of course not. BDSM is a two way street. "All partners" involved have to be consenting partners, dom, sub or otherwise.

As for a dominant disregarding that and going off and being with other subs after having agreed to be exclussive with you...well smh, I sure dont call those dominants, I call them cheating asshole players. lol

[Ozme52]

Well, that is the thing Oz. Consensual is a big part of this whole thing. So, by setting the limit and his accepting that limit (I assume that not stating a problem with it is accepting it), it took away my right to negotiate if he felt that poly was a given for him.
Indeed. So far, you're correct.

I am a bit confused as to your reference that D/s and poly are two separate things. Are you saying that poly doesn't fall under Dom limits? (not sure if that made ANY sense but try and work with me here - I am a bit muddled).
My statement that D/s and poly are separate was to the point that you can be poly and not also be D/s... and that you can be D/s but not poly. (I thought I was pretty clear given the example I gave...)

To me, SSC is a big deal. He has always spoken about it as being a big deal. If we had spoken about this in true D/s fashion, is it out of line for me to believe that it should have been put out there immediately given that I expressed a need for monogamous. The fact that nothing was said about it makes this, to me, a breach of trust. On a human level. Hmmmm, okay never mind, I think I just answered my own question as to the '2 separate issues' thing. This posting was really just me trying to get at whether there was a D/s issue that I was not understanding in all of this.

The whole mistake here is thinking of poly v. mono as some kind of limit. It's not. It's a condition of the relationship. D/s is often about exploring boundaries and limits and even pushing them.

So if you and your dom discussed it as a limit, then I can understand, (though not necessarily condone,) why he is pushing you... or has made the assumption that your limit doesn't necessarily apply to him.

That he didn't say so is another matter. He should have been clear with you about this... but probably thought it a deal breaker.

So is that who you want? Someone who avoids that conversation?

The bottom line is that you have the right to break off the relationship and you know this but you want to force your dominant to comply with the rules you thought you both agreed to rather than move on, having found out he didn't communicate in good faith, or at least to your understanding of it...

but you don't get to "force" him to do anything. Not and still call yourself the submissive. And even if you could, would you want to? It's what makes vanilla relationships go sour after the passion wears off, this desire to "possess" a partner, it certainly won't work with someone who is a dominant, and shouldn't work for you, someone who is submissive and presumably prefers to be possessed.

[Briballus]

Is he pushing your limits or is he just sleeping around? Two very different things. If he is pushing your limits make a choice: is it something you could see exploring, or is the limit a true hard limit? Let him know. If he is just sleeping around, well... don't let him hide behind D/s to get away with it.

As Oz said, you probably won't be satisfied forcing him to do or not to do anything. That's what the "get me outa here" option is for. But I know that can be a really hard thing to do.

[spicennice]

Oz, I am absolutely positive you were being clear. I just gap out at times. My apologies.

Briballus that is a very good question that you ask. I wouldn't have thought of it. I don't believe he was pushing my limits. I think he is poly and was not willing to lose our relationship over it. Hoped he could figure it out.

I actually did put an end to the relationship immediately. So yes, it was a hard limit. I don't feel like I was in a power struggle, I feel like I made the right decision for me given the situation, and I made it.

I was using this posting as a means to verify that I wasn't missing an element. What element, I wasn't sure, but it is just in my nature to be ultra fair when making a decision that impacts on others. If you had disagreed with my having this as an issue it wouldn't have changed the outcome, but would have taught me that D/s was not my thing if poly was a given. I truly appreciate all of your opinions on this. It has me understanding D/s from more than one perspective. I very much thank each of you for taking time to respond with such thoughtfulness.

[Odysseus]

Throws My two cents in....

First of all, your question is one that is NOT a silly question- it is in fact a good one.
As you can see from the responses.... there may not be a solid ruling on this but one thing is certain... bdsm is all about power exchange and trust... its also about consent...

WHAT DOES IT MEAN when a dominant says something ( in this case agrees to a limit) and then.... ignores it?... What does it say about Him/Her? and course the next question is... do you still wish to be associated with One like that? Do you still feel comfortable giving Him/Her your trust?

Is the answer to pick up your bags and move on? Personally, I would say....NO... I think the answer is...... as is ALWAYS the case in this lifestyle, if you have an issue, you should bring it to your Dominant, place it in His lap and see how He responds. If His response doesnt cut it, then its time to make that decision.. "should I stay or should I go now"

[thepast]

I know this is in the Dominant's section, but I am going to toss my 2 cents in here as well, not so much from the sub perspective, but just another thought...

People don't change. They SAY they change, but they don't. I could cite you 100 examples, but I am going to spare you the time & the space.

People who are poly are poly. People who are monog are monog. If a Dom & sub get together and the sub is strictly monog, and the Dom is strictly poly, it probably isn't going to work. Why? Because PEOPLE CAN'T CHANGE THAT. People are who they are--people like what they like. Sure, you can play around w/kinks & fetishes, but monog & poly are different... it's part of peoples' essence. Now, I am sure other folks will say, "that's crap, delia, I will change for the right person." Really? Will you?? REALLY? Maybe for the short term... but then you will get that itch... if you're poly, down the road a few months to a year, you will want to "branch out"--you will "encourage" your monog sub to "come onnnn, just tryyyy it" and your monog sub will feel pressure, and then it'll start to create a crack in your relationship. And then there goes the ball downhill from there. Or... alternatively... if you are a monog sub & get involved w/a poly dom from the gitgo, you might, after a few months, decide "oh, I am going to change him into a monog dom." REALLY? REALLY? Yeah, ok, give it a go. He will end up meeting people, talking to them online, etc.

Look, here's my point. You aren't going to change who people are. So it's better at the very beginning to figure out who are & who your partner is. If you are different people, you are different people. Kiss, hug, fuck, and move on. If you think you can give it a go, give it a go--but don't be surprised in a few months or years when it starts to fall apart.

It is what it is. Pessimistic? Perhaps.

On the other hand, going into a relationship w/eyes wide open is a hell of a lot more intelligent & better than having your heart broken & "life ruined" when a year down the road Dom-of-your-Dreams crushes you when you find out that he really didn't want to give up the poly life & he has 3 other subs on the side.

Now, when do you talk about this? UP FRONT. It should be discussed before limits are discussed. I would argue poly/monog isn't a limit. I'd argue it isn't part of the kink/fetish discussion. I'd argue it almost tails into the vanilla discussion, closer to the "hi, I'm a sub, and I'm _________ [monog/poly]."

I have seen the bad results all too frequently... don't be someone that falls into the trap of thinking "I can change them." You can't.

[Ozme52]

True enough delia, for many situations. But how about the monog who never was exposed to or tried poly? People don't change, but they do learn and experience.

There are a lot of things I didn't like as a kid that I like now. Tastes change. Preferences change. So for many, life is a learning experience. Now... if having tried something, I don't like it, nothing will get me to change. You are right.

But if I like it better than what I was used to, yeah, I just might change my mind.


Now, when do you talk about this? UP FRONT. It should be discussed before limits are discussed. I would argue poly/monog isn't a limit. I'd argue it isn't part of the kink/fetish discussion. I'd argue it almost tails into the vanilla discussion, closer to the "hi, I'm a sub, and I'm _________ [monog/poly]."

Pretty much exactly what I also said earlier. Just a couple of nits I was picking. ;)

[thepast]

I agree to a point, Oz. Trying new things can be good... but I think way too often people mistake new experiences for attempting to change peoples' views.

Otherwise, good points, I agree.

[Odysseus]

delia

I understand what you are saying. But I also agree with Oz. People DO change, but their core persona does not. Yes one can learn more... broaden ones horizon, try new things, evolve into someone more sophisticated, more in tune....but the core person still remains...We all know childhood friends who were..schmucks... Then they grew up... got the big house, the fancy car, the trapments of middle class/upper middle class.... but they remain.. the same schmucks they were when you knew em as a kid.


If a Dom lies and cheats and you as a sub KNOW that, is it the Doms fault that the relationship failed? Or is it the subs? Who had a problem with liars and cheats, and should have walked on day one?

-Odysseus