vanilla issue interfering with 24/7 rule

[13'sbadkitty]

i am frustrated with myself and needing to find a way to understand what i should have done to cope instead of breaking a rule my Master set for me.

Yesterday He went with His 11 yr old son to His friends about 25 minutes from us to work on His car while i took O/our 5 year old to a birthday. The day went by without any texts for hours. i got an answer to my 'hows it going?" a couple hours later "lousy, its a chrysler" kind of thing but nothing else about dinner time or anything. i began cooking, bathed the 5 year old and had him in pjs when i get a text 45 minutes before the 11year old is supposed to be at a party in my town that i would need to come and get him. nothing else. no other response when i said i would have to turn off dinner and dress the 5 yr old. Not a big deal, just i don't like to be caught off guard to drop everything and have to run like crazy to be late. i get there and i then find out i need to get wrapping paper and a card and all. i am sick, have chills and sore throat, no jacket...kids in pj's...i was upset.

He was upset that i was upset and i drove away with Him walking away without any resolution. W/we had minimal texting through the night and i went to bed angry and upset.

the rule i broke is i wore sweats to bed instead of being bare assed like He wishes because i was so pissed and there was no communication i couldn't even say i don't feel well can i? and i did defy Him directly.

so tonight when He comes home i am punished and i get why, i defied Him deliberately. Does anybody who lives as 24/7 couple with kids have any ideas of how to cope with what for vanilla couples would be standard, but for us it is different. i am disappointed in myself, yet i was beside myself at the time. i don't know how to be submissive when i can't even communicate with Him that i felt upset that He didn't consider my willingness to help but being upset i wasn't given the opportunity to do so in a way that would have made it easier and then given the opportunity to express that without Him getting mad...very normal husband and wife issues yes...the defiance a problem

[thepast]

Just my two cents...

First off, I think you need to seperate out the issues. This is often the case in 24/7 relationships: vanilla problems bleed into D/s, D/s bleeds into vanilla. That's great & fun when things are going well, but not so much when things aren't going as well. It basically sounds like what happened that night is a confluence of crummy events-- a lot of miscommunications, non-communication, and hurt feelings. Now, every couples deal with this in different ways, so far be it for anyone on this Forum to tell you both how to deal with this situation in your life in your specific circumstances.

However... since you posted here on the Forums asking for opinions, I'll give you mine--but I would caution you against taking ANYONE's opinion terribly seriously. After all, we aren't there in your situation. We don't know your history--what's worked in the past, what your negotiated limits & rules are, what your day to day life is usually like, or how problems are normally handled.

That being said... I prefer the "punishment fit the crime" approach---if it's a D/s infraction, it gets a D/s punishment. If it's a vanilla problem, we fix it in a vanilla manner. Why? Because it keeps things "clean"-- it allows us to appreciate both sides of our life, and also allows us to have some sembelence of day to day order in our life. Again, a lot of people would disagree with this--they would say that in a 24/7 M/s or D/s you should use D/s punishment for everything. Well, ok, that's one way to look at it. But from my angle, I think that over-uses D/s punishment. It also turns everything into a power struggle, and it "nickel & dimes" everything. We are in a relationship, not in a tally of numbers. We prefer to have some ebb & flow in our day to day lives, and to allow vanilla things to fix themselves in vanilla ways rather than to assign D/s punishment to them. Additionally, how do you assign a D/s punishment to a vanilla incident? It is very hard to compute a "tit for tat" system. But, again, it's up to the couple.

In your particular incident, had that situation of been transplanted into my life, I have to be honest... I doubt I would have gone to bed w/the sweats on... we would have talked it out that night. But that's the way we are--we ALWAYS talk things out at night, no matter how uncomfortable the situation might be, because we don't want to re-tread the same ground the next day--we want to wake up with a clean slate. So, I might suggest you might try something like that--simply talking it out, in a respectful, but vanilla talking situation (i.e. no D/s roles) really helps. Remove the power-play, and as 2 adults, talk through the problems.

Now, given that the incident did happen... Well, yeah, you defied him, but it wasn't so much the act itself that I think is important... it was the underlying cause that needs to be addressed: WHY did you defy him? Because if you don't talk through that, and you don't work through that, you will have another repeat of this again. You guys need to work through this.

I don't think the situation is different, really, for couples with or without kids. There HAS to be some vanilla time in a 24/7 relationship, and you have to learn how to juggle the balance of wanting to have a constant D/s level in the background of your life, and learning when it's time to set it aside & be 2 adults, or, in your case, 2 parents. Sometimes I am of the notion that both parties take advantage of their D/s role to 'scape out of vanilla issues. Don't be that couple--face the issues you have, and then your D/s side will be so much more fulfilled.

The angrier you allow yourselves to be without communicating with eachother in a productive, useful, (and soon!) manner, the more harm will be done to the relationship for the long term. Communication is 99% of the problem in most relationships & seems to be something that you guys could use a little work on... However, that being said...

... it's all just my 2 cents.

[IAN 2411]

Until my Mistress/Wife died 20 months ago, i was in a 24/7 D/s vanilla relationship for 30 years. At no time did either my Domme or I mix our D/s relationship with vanilla, and especially when the children were involved, and we had 4 girls in that time. I have just a few points that might help referring to the Vanilla side of our relationship.

1, we would never put our own personal projects in front of the needs of our children.
2, loyalty to your partners needs comes before loyalty to your friends
3, shit happens in all vanilla life and there is damn all you can do with it, and both Dom and sub should know that.
4, respect is given both ways, give respect to receive respect, and that should be the case of the Dom also.

I am in agreement with delia, and you have both got to sit down and talk about the situations that might arise, place boundaries that will not be breached. You are both mixing D/s with vanilla and despite what delia has said, it is a no, no. By doing that there are too many loose ends left, and every time that same situation occurs you will be left asking yourself, what is the correct thing to do, or what is the correct thing to do in D/s. One other thing, if a person is ill, frustrated and stressed out, then they will do things that are not the normal, and if your Dom does not realise this or for that matter care then it is him with the problem. If you cannot communicate with your Dom then you have an even bigger problem, because communication is what makes the 24/7 D/s vanilla work.
You must also remember that this is only from my own personal experiences, and you must only draw from it that which is appropriate, or disregard it completely.


Regards ian 2411

[13'sbadkitty]

i really had no problem with picking up my son, or wrapping presents....it was more that He didn't communicate with me all day and night. He didn't text me so that i could make sure things were done...
we were very late to the party, i had to take a kid out to cvs in pjs and me with a fever and no jacket because He didn't communicate.

He had been sick and on prednisone for weeks. i have been walking around not being able to communicate at all because He has been a wreck and understandably so! Things have been more difficult than normal.

Ian, this did not occur in front of the kids..yes some "why didn't You tell me..." upset feelings stuff like everyone does at times. The defiance came when He didn't let me know anything all night.

i agree Delia completely, that is something W/we have been learning to do and it works better and better for us, as at first this has been bumpy.

i was upset because i was not allowed to say i was upset, He came home too late for me to talk about anything. i am disappointed because my response was childish.

Ian i am sorry for your loss.

and would like to know how do you balance in front of the kids? how do you find ways to how Delia beautifully said nurture both sides of the relationship? I thank you both for your time very much! life is complicated at times for us all and i strive to just live up to being the best i can regardless of vanilla or d/s...yesterday was not exactly my best at all! But for real, the issue for me was being in the dark all day and night and being a ritualized person, i need the transition time not to be stressed. i need the communication to be there so i am not thrown into things. part of my immaturity maybe. like i said, the issues are vanilla and my response ended up being adolescent. punishment is over, fit the crime, things are talked over..

i guess i am not asking clearly and i apologize. i just haven't developed the skills when things are so stressed like this...sick people, prednisone, broken cars, ruined dinner in the trash, all normal life happens stuff. i guess if i had had an opportunity to bitch about men to a friend i would have calmed down, idk! thanks again Delia and Ian

[summerBreeze{EDQ}]

Gentle hugs 13'sbadkitty and I hope your feeling well again soon. :)

[13'sbadkitty]

Thank you, i am.

W/we had an opportunity to be together today without kids running errands and the like and connect and recharge. i think sometimes because i have never been with someone who means so much to me and i have never been in a D/s relationship in any way shape of form that i just wish i sometimes had a real time someone to talk to about stuff. i do in vanilla ways, just with the multi-faceted relationship aspects.

[roxi.slut]

In front of the kids, all is vanilla...with an old fashioned feel...Dad is the Boss. Everything gets ran by him. If I need permission, I ask in private. If littles ask me for something, they are reminded that Dad is the Boss...unless it is something simple. When they get older, they notice more and hear more, so be keep that in mind.
I do agree with delia though...you have to take what you can from the posts here. We can only speak from our own experiences.
You need common pet names for one another too. I call my Master "Mister", for instance. This way, you don't screw up and say something questionable. Kids go to school and tell their teachers things that raise questions...always good to be careful. I will never forget having to answer the principal at my child's school when he asked about me using the term "Master"...at the private, Christian school...

[13'sbadkitty]

In front of the kids, all is vanilla...with an old fashioned feel...Dad is the Boss. Everything gets ran by him. If I need permission, I ask in private. If littles ask me for something, they are reminded that Dad is the Boss...unless it is something simple. When they get older, they notice more and hear more, so be keep that in mind.
I do agree with delia though...you have to take what you can from the posts here. We can only speak from our own experiences.
You need common pet names for one another too. I call my Master "Mister", for instance. This way, you don't screw up and say something questionable. Kids go to school and tell their teachers things that raise questions...always good to be careful. I will never forget having to answer the principal at my child's school when he asked about me using the term "Master"...at the private, Christian school...

W/we actually do live similar to you. i call Him Okimawiw which means Master, and i do most of the 50's housewife things except i do work outside the home. punishment and all is left for when they sleep for the most part when and if it needs to occur. i wear a belled anklet that the kids love and my collar after they sleep. He likes the capitalization thing i think mostly because it's a sneaky way for me to show Him my submission.

How do you cope with not having local girlfriends (or do you?) to discuss things with if you need to? the more difficult issues with submission? i don't have any opportunities to go to a club to start meeting others, but i do feel somewhat isolated at times which is why i came here.

[thepast]

I would echo the sentiments about being cautious & aware about who is hearing what you say. Little munchkins have big ears, just as friends & family do. Look. Your Master knows you love him, and knows you would call him Master every 10 seconds if you could. But that really isn't reality. So you have to find some kind of alternative. It seems as though you have in some way. I would just urge everyone reading this thread to take note: kids are verrrry perceptive creatures, as are friends, family, etc. They will "see" things you don't want them to see. So exercise caution. It might mean that maybe you can't have as much fun as you want in public, or maybe you will have to restrain yourself... and sure, there will be those that argue "it's YOUR life... they will just have to accept it." Well, ok, fine, to a degree. But they also didn't agree to become part of your BDSM universe... so you should have a little respect for them as well & have a little decorum when in THEIR universe.

But back on topic.

I actually don't have children. I have a relative I babysit on a routine basis, but my experience comes from living with elder relatives, and having perhaps the nosiest family in the universe. We've made it work because we've WANTED it to work. We do it by having our fun in private, and respecting their space as well. We don't play our games in front of them, and we restrain our lifestyle in front of them. On the other hand, if they are in our universe, well... be careful what you wander into, ya know? LOL

But look. Clearly we all have ups & down, and good days and bad days. The good relationships weather through these times through good communication, and trial & error. Nothing is ever going to be perfect, and you are going to have to find what works for you. There are a lot of people that would be repulsed if you told them that your BDSM affects the way you raise your kids, other people wouldn't even flinch. It's just the old "different folks, different strokes." As long as it is working for you guys, and the kids are healthy & happy and you aren't doing anything illegal, hey, go for it. I have seen things far worse than that.

Assss for the girlfriends... only a couple of mine know. Generally, we'll talk about "everything-but." If the convo turns to sex talk, I will offer up some info, but not a lot. I prefer to keep this part of my life mine. People tend to get a little weird once you mention it. Not that I have a problem talking about it LOL, but I prefer to not put people in an uncomfortable position, you know?

Just my two cents though :)

[roxi.slut]

Just remember that one day, you will be asked what "Okimawiw" means, and then will come the questions about why you call Him "Master".

i totally agree with delia......it is your life, but this is reality. We can't have it all.

i disagree in that once the state gets involved in your life, you can expect to have many many hardshhips. You MUST protect yourselves! If the right people around you get wind of your BDSM activities, you could be facing Protective Services. We BDSMers are not looked upon as sane....and they make money off of an open case. So you have to take precautions. i live in the Bible Belt. Southern Baptists everywhere! The submissive wife is accepted and respected here......but if they discovered that our closet is filled with the proverbial whips and chains, i could lose my son, and be forced to hire an attorney, and ............well, i'm sure you can imagine. So be very very careful!

i'm almost an empty-nester though. And when that happens.....well, look out world, roxi the slave will be much more visible. i even wear a locking collar now. as far as everyone is concerned, it is a choker. Most just think i'm "Goth" hehe. i wear a tattoo that says "female slave" in Japanese letters. When people ask what it is, i say it is something personal between my Husband and me. We are a little bolder than most, possibly because we don't have family around to be nosey.

As far as others to talk to, girlfriends...my Husband and i belong to a yahoo group of people who are from our area. We attend munches once a month, and Christmas parties...and even play parties. This gives me the ability to comfortably talk about BDSM stuff face to face with someone other than the computer. Mind you, places like this are great for having the support you might need, but really, having actually met with others in real life, there's nothing like human contact face to face. You might run a google search for BDSM activities in your area and see what you come up with. You might have to use many different terms. Just be very careful. You want a group who meets in public, and be sure that you trust your instincts!! Our group has a munch at a restaurant once a month. If you want to be invited to the Christmas party, you have to attend a set number of these munches. The play parties are similar, though we haven't had the pleasure of being able to attend the ones that we were invited to. We do karaoke night at some of the local bars, as well as cook-outs and other fun stuff.

Hope this helps!

[13'sbadkitty]

Okimawiw means chief also and the kids have been told its just a term for husband in Cree which the kids know i studied under a medicine man for years. they would all believe it if even they googled it as denuseri had done because they are all familiar with dialects and colloquialisms and the such. (except the youngest) they have all been to ceremony where i called the medicine man "grandfather" and understand respect is very important to me. long before i ever knew what bdsm was, with my ex husband the kids all knew me as an "old fashioned" wife/mom so this for them with me is normal and i and my Master laugh and joke and poke fun in front of them all the time. i behave like a more respectful version of myself before W/we decided to go down this route (most days)

as far as the girlfriend part, i didn't so much mean the kink part, more the submissive part. most of the women i know are very, um...feminist? for lack of a better word. The kind of take no shit variety i guess, lol. so when it comes to me wanting to talk about my experiences as a sub on the day to day basis it gets kind of lonely. He is kind and considerate and loving and lots of gentleness...and tries to be considerate and is for the most part. i guess what i am trying to say that when i am having a hard time within myself either through illness, exhaustion, pms and the like i wish i had someone to say things like " i know its a rule but..." kind of stuff too. or when He as my Master is extra special wonderful even...l don't know. there is so many layers to relationships and i have no practice as a sober woman in them. most of the world is only a few years old to me.

oh...an aside...W/we never play when any kids are awake. if bigger kids are around (home from college or visiting from other parents, only one is full time here of the 5) W/we don't play at all. all the toys are locked up and away. the kids don't have access to my account on the computer and i even have a seperate email that only goes to my blackberry for any bdsm related stuff.

i appreciate everyones thoughtful feedback. it means so much to me to have a place like this to feel normal. i have been too nervous to explore much online outside of here, so far. thank you very much badkitty

[IAN 2411]

Okimawiw means chief also and the kids have been told its just a term for husband in Cree which the kids know i studied under a medicine man for years. they would all believe it if even they googled it as denuseri had done because they are all familiar with dialects and colloquialisms and the such. (except the youngest) they have all been to ceremony where i called the medicine man "grandfather" and understand respect is very important to me. long before i ever knew what bdsm was, with my ex husband the kids all knew me as an "old fashioned" wife/mom so this for them with me is normal and i and my Master laugh and joke and poke fun in front of them all the time. i behave like a more respectful version of myself before W/we decided to go down this route (most days).

I would just like to point out that the calling your Dom Master in the UK in front of strangers or children by accident would probably go unnoticed. It is an old English name for Master of the house, and it is used quite a lot more than people might think. One other point being, that the only people that would know the real meaning would be another community member, and it would only get a raised eyebrow at most. In that everything other than that scenario, it could be explained away in the fashion i have just mentioned


He is kind and considerate and loving and lots of gentleness...and tries to be considerate and is for the most part.

There was no way i was meaning anything but what you say above, in my previous post. It’s just that i sometimes have a direct approach to saying things without thinking first


oh...an aside...W/we never play when any kids are awake. if bigger kids are around (home from college or visiting from other parents, only one is full time here of the 5) W/we don't play at all. all the toys are locked up and away. the kids don't have access to my account on the computer and i even have a seperate email that only goes to my blackberry for any bdsm related stuff.

I see also that you already had boundaries and they are natural and logical, which are the foundation for BDSM/vanilla relationships.

Regards ian 2411