Saying No

[learninggirlie]

I am wanting some advice on other ways of saying No in a nice pleasing manor. I am still all very new to this and this is the first time i am really posting about anything. But recently my Master has been reacting to the word No. He has never told me i cant say it but whenever i do He stops and looks at me and says what did you just say to me? with that look of doom. It doesn't even have to be during a scene, it can just be something said while having a normal conversation. So i am kind of looking for other ways of saying no, since that word seems to touch a nerve in Him.

Any suggestions?

[nawteeone]

Hmmm. I'm thinking that the whole notion of you denying him for any reason sets off a trigger. So while you're asking for a alternative to saying "no," maybe he would react to them all the same way, you know?

With me and M, it's understood that in every day communication, I have every right to speak my mind as I see fit. When we are getting into the sexual aspect of things, he most definitely does not like me to say no, try to stop him, even flinching at times aggravates him. In those moments, he wants my total submission.

The key is: How does he KNOW how far I am willing to go, and still be comfortable? This is stuff we talk about ALL THE TIME in regular conversation (and NOT in the middle of heated moments). Prior communication is the key. You said he reacts even if it isn't in the middle of a scene, but I think if you are feeling a certain way, you need to be who you are, and react in a way that is true to you....and that will include saying no when it suits you!

[13'sbadkitty]

with regard to everyday life, i say no all the time to normal stuff (although i don't really like to, i found i was beginning to get overwhelmed and was getting resentful. my bad really as He wants me to be myself and to take care of my needs) with regards to play no is out of the question with the exception of hard limits that W/we have agreed upon, or if i need to use my safe word. i have used it once in all the time W/we are together, and a half way word meaning i need Him to back off just a bit, but it is there not "no" that i have my way to protect my safety whether it be mental, emotional or physical.

that being said, i am accountable for how i speak to Him. i don't have to be a doormat, just respectful. this is how He has wanted me to be from day one. i think being true to myself within this is why i feel so safe with Him.

[learninggirlie]

Hmmm. I'm thinking that the whole notion of you denying him for any reason sets off a trigger. So while you're asking for a alternative to saying "no," maybe he would react to them all the same way, you know?

With me and M, it's understood that in every day communication, I have every right to speak my mind as I see fit. When we are getting into the sexual aspect of things, he most definitely does not like me to say no, try to stop him, even flinching at times aggravates him. In those moments, he wants my total submission.

The key is: How does he KNOW how far I am willing to go, and still be comfortable? This is stuff we talk about ALL THE TIME in regular conversation (and NOT in the middle of heated moments). Prior communication is the key. You said he reacts even if it isn't in the middle of a scene, but I think if you are feeling a certain way, you need to be who you are, and react in a way that is true to you....and that will include saying no when it suits you!

i see what your saying and that makes sense to me. Getting around something one way or another is still getting around it. Maybe its not the actual word persay that has Him going, maybe its actually my use of it and maybe He sees me as being definant when i use it. which makes me think i might be using it that way. Being i know its not allowed scene wish perhaps i am trying to just get a rise out of him knowing i can use it in every day situations. Grrr am going to have to think more about this. Thanks for the replys.

[denuseri]

I am assuming that it is your desire for him to extend his dominion over you on a day to day basis and not have it confined within the realm of the bedroom.

Of course that doesnt mean you and he do not have some limitations inolved in this arrangment and have allready communicated them with each other in an ongoing open ended dialoge.

It is really hard to give you advice on how to respond appropriately without knowing the boundaries of your relationship dynamic or having a "specific" example to work from.

More information would be nessesary for me to formulate a helpful responce for you.

[Jennifer Williams]

Trying to figure out the dynamics of being able to communicate between each other during different situations is very difficult. My little one and I have been together for years and still it is easy for miss-communication to happen. He doesn't like to talk; I don't let him get away with that.

You need to be able to express your true feelings to your dom, and a good dom will want to know your true feelings. He may still want to do things you don't like (sometimes that's the point), but at least then you know he has full knowledge of the effect that it has on you, and you can trust him when he "overrides" you that he knows what it's doing to you.

You need to talk to him about how he would like you to communicate your feelings to him. Talking about things not in the heat of the moment is best, but sometimes it can't be avoided; sometimes things sneak up on you. Unfortunately good communication is the kind of thing that only comes with practice and hard work on both sides.

But as long as he wants to know how you feel, you should be able to find a way to communicate that with him (and if he doesn't care how you feel then that's a problem). Maybe, instead of saying plain "no", he would be better if you phrased it as a question. "Would it be alright, Sir, if you did not do that right now?" That gives you the opportunity to say how you feel, while still leaving the power in his hands whether it happens. That is just one suggestion I have; you have to work out with him what is best for you both.

[wyldrose]

It sounds like you're almost asking two questions. i'll try to answer both and make sense, but no promises!

Anything that you say has to be agreed upon in your dynamic. If you're not allowed to say 'no' at all, ask Him what you can say instead. If you pick a phrase that doesn't break your submissive 'character' in the moment but still communicates to Him your current feelings, it can be almost anything. Examples are 'only if it pleases You, Sir' or 'as You wish'. BUT using these when He doesn't know that they actually mean 'i do not want to do this' is pointless and potentially harmful.

Which is where we start to get into safewords territory. If you're trying to say 'no' to an activity for a valid reason, or if you haven't agreed to have your limits pushed, a safeword is what you should be telling Him, not 'no'. This is more for if there's a reason that you can't do as you're told (i.e. it's unsafe, you have a phobia, something's gone wrong, etc etc etc).

The way He's acting almost sounds like a dramatic humour type thing. He might be teasing You, though i have no idea about Him and you do, it might be a possibility that you just aren't in on His joke yet. Or He might have a desire to consensually forcefully take you 'against your will' and is baiting you. Both of these options are a good idea to talk about before you assume wrongly and end up in trouble.

i think the big issue here is more why He doesn't want you to say 'no'. It could be because you're saying it in a disrespectful manner, or saying 'no' to things that He thinks you shouldn't. You do have the right to say no to anything that you're uncomfortable with or that you feel is unsafe, but these things should be talked about as far in advance as is possible. If you need to say 'no' and 'stop' during play in order to submit, it's important that He knows that really, 'no' means 'more please!'.

i think i've just made up my own questions, now. i hope i at least answered half of what you asked.

[learninggirlie]

"Would it be alright, Sir, if you did not do that right now?" That gives you the opportunity to say how you feel, while still leaving the power in his hands whether it happens. That is just one suggestion I have; you have to work out with him what is best for you both.

This is proper wording that i have been looking for i think. Or something along those lines. Or Sir i dont wish to do that at the moment i am busy with other things. Something like that.

The situation that brought this all up happened a few times lately out of a scene. While in a scene i know that safe word is what i need to use to say no. My Master doesn't like the No means yes situation at all. So i avoid it and happy to do so. But outside of a scene when i use the word no He doesn't punish me but He does pause and says what did you say to me. And i can tell it’s not something He likes. So after a few times of this i said that i should post on the forums round about ways of saying no so that it doesn't upset you. And He says to go ahead and ask see what response i get.

But after reading the first two peoples responses i am kind of inclined to think that i might be just bringing up the No matter while out of a seen to gloat Him on. Kind of like asking for anger to hopefully get restrictions put in place for outside of scene.

Grrr not sure if i am saying this right, i am horrible with words. That’s why i am a reader not a writer. Does anyone know what i mean or even understand what i am trying to convey?

On one hand i would love to have something smooth to respond to Him instead of just no like Jennifer said but on the other hand i am wondering now if i am just trying to get His ire with the entire subject.

Good first question to ask on the forum huh?

[denuseri]

There is nothing wrong with your question hon.

A specific example of a normal no responce question would however really help.

Like: "Are you going to have my supper ready for me tomarrow night when I get home from work girl?" (he may know or not know that you have a busy day between school and work the next day and its simpley not possible becuase he will be home before you)

Responce: "Regretabely Master, your girl must work after school and will not be able to get home in time; would it be possible for her to prepare a meal for Master tonight that he could heat up when he gets home that will please him?"

Or some such variation may work in most cases.

[Jennifer Williams]

Yes, certainly analyzing the reason behind why you are saying 'no' is very useful, and also finding out the reason it bothers him, too. It's funny, though the word 'no' seems to be clear, it actually isn't because it's too general. You need to find a clearer way to express what you're feeling, and in order to do that, you need to first figure out more clearly what your feelings are.


Kind of like asking for anger to hopefully get restrictions put in place for outside of scene.

If this is true, then you don't need to make him angry in order to ask for more restrictions. Simply ask for them. Explain to him that you would like him to exert more control over your every day life, not just in the bedroom. Just remember to word it respectfully, as this is a question, a request. And then keep in mind you'll be submitting to whatever he comes up with- so make sure this is what you want before you ask for it!

[wyldrose]

Ahaa, the truth comes out. You did fine getting your point across, don't worry about that.

Believe me, restrictions and play are MUCH more fun if you've asked nicely for them first. By asking Him what you want and leaving it up to Him to decide, it also means that you're not trying to manipulate Him into doing what you want, another big no-no for subbies. You may have to accept that He will inevitably say 'no' Himself in some cases to whatever you ask for, but that is part of being submissive to somebody else- the decision is His.

Really, you're looking for 'please may i...' or 'please would You...' instead of 'no'. Begging is fun territory to go into. =]

[ppr128]

The key thing to remember is that you always, always have the right to say "no." If your partner respects you, they will understand. If they do not respect you, they do not deserve to be with you.

Unfortunately, it's easy to say and difficult to do. Part of being a sub means that you are focused on pleasing the dom, in whatever form that may take. If you're deep in a scene, or in sub space, it becomes all the more difficult, especially when saying no is going to make you feel like you're somehow disappointing or failing your partner.

For me, I am much less concerned with the immediate situation at hand than the long-term implications of what is going on. If my partner is feeling bad, that will hurt her. I don't want that. Placing her in a situation where she wants to say no but feels she can't means I've failed her. Placing her in that level of stress is never a good thing.

Note, this doesn't mean I never stretch my partner :) Trying new (and sometimes daunting) things is important to find out if there is something better that can be done. It just means I don't spring things on her. We talk, we experiment, we focus on what works for the both of us. Yes, it is a dom/sub dynamic, but at the end of the day it is all about two people. Unless you are making an effort to see that things work out on that level, it will fall apart, which is (one would hope) not the goal.

[denuseri]

Eaither way:

There is a simple way to get around the whole saying no thing that I picked up over the years. (first used on me to get me to stop speaking without permision)

Outside of the so called "safeword" invocation or refusal of a task and or revocation of one's submission:

try going for the next week without saying the word "no"...to anyone and everyone you speak with.

Yes everyone, friends , coworkers, your children, the nieghbors dog,etc. Short of screaming "No" in a saftey situation etc. You simpley learn how to phrase your responces differently then.

Of course one will need incentive.

Keep a lil notepad in your purse, or a clicker to count with for each infraction on each day.

You can eaither be earning orgasms or some other such suitable reward for each day with no misshaps and for each infraction you can recieve a suitable punnishment, which should be sufficently unpleasent enough for you to not want to be recieving it, yet not be so bad it damages you or fills you with dread (ie it should be a sutible negative inscentive for you). You can even add some extra special punnishment for each time you say "no" directly to your dominant as an added bonus.

Trust me it works, you will be surprised how fast too. Dont forget here are numerous variations to it it and entire behavioral modification type things this simple pavlovian technique can be used for other than just the word no too.

Like involuntary orgasm control....winks.

[learninggirlie]

Thanks again all for your responses. denuseri i really appreciate the last bit of wisdom you gave. i always feel like i am not able to state myself with flair. You all have given me much to think on. i most certainly use some variations to those ideas. i have never felt anything but safe with my M. and wish to please Him always.

[Lisais mine]

when i ask lisa a question, the phrase "whatever you desire sir" stands for no, so that she does not appear to be making a desicion in public- and if she says no, then what ever i asked her WILL be done

[BryansGrrrl]

when i ask lisa a question, the phrase "whatever you desire sir" stands for no, so that she does not appear to be making a desicion in public- and if she says no, then what ever i asked her WILL be doneJust to clarify... if I say "No" instead of "Whatever you desire, Sir" whatever it is I did not want to do will be done. It is reinforcement of the correct form of speach.

For "Yes" I am to say "That would please me, Sir". I'm having a harder time with "Well... maybe" LOL Because we don't really have an alternate phrase for that.