No Limits

[Flaming_Redhead]

We've all seen personal ads of those who claim to have no limits. Most of us laugh at them because we know everyone has limits. However, there are intelligent, sane people who call themselves no-limits slaves. Inevitably, someone will start the "what if" game with them where extreme scenarios are presented. There's a very small percentage of BDSM'ers who are actually into hard core torture versus the greater number of people who claim to have no limits, so what does all of this mean?

I mentioned in chat the other day that I don't really have any limits now (in the context of my relationship), and I was told that I wasn't setting a good example for the newbies. Far be it from me to "mislead" anyone on purpose, but any other way of saying it might sound just as questionable to a newbie. I could say that my limits are set by my master rather than saying I don't have any. When your master isn't hard core and has the same squicks as you, or maybe even more squicks than you, limits are kind of a moot point, in my opinion, since he's not very likely to have you do anything you wouldn't. Therefore, I can say that I don't limit my master. It's been over a year, and I'm still in one piece and haven't had to eat any poo. If playing outside of my relationship, I definitely have limits, though, because there are things I will do for him that I won't do for anyone else.

So, in the interest of protecting the innocent, do we really need another word or phrase besides "no limits slave," or should we assume they're adults capable of doing their own research and have a high school reading comprehension?

[Lisais mine]

hmm... i see what you are sayin, Red- and i agree. i dont feel like lisa really limits me, for much hte same reason- we have very simmilar kink. and actually, i think she takes a bit more than she wants, for me.

I think that saying you dont limit your master is n ot the same as saying you dont have limits though. it is more saying you trust your sir not to take you somewhere you dont want to be.

[sdgirl]

I think with the right person in a long term relationship, limits become much less of an issue.

[BryansGrrrl]

I think that saying you dont limit your master is n ot the same as saying you dont have limits though. it is more saying you trust your sir not to take you somewhere you dont want to be.I think so too. And I agree, I completely trust you not to harm me (in any permanent way ;) )

That said, it took us a while to build that trust, Sir. That level of trust isn't for everyone, just like every other type of kink. *shrug* For us it was a goal to be worked toward, but for others that type of relationship isn't what they are looking for.

So, do I think we all need to overly censor ourselves for newbies? Not really, although sometimes we may need to explain ourselves and our situations. :)

[fetishdj]

I don't think you are a no limits slave, you are simply a slave who agrees to whatever your Master says and trust your Master to not break you. It takes a lot of time, effort and trust to get that point. However, you still have limits - just not ones that your Master will break.

So, rather than saying you are a no limits slave, it is better to say that you are a long term slave in a trusting relationship built up over time.

[denuseri]

<<Agrees with fetish on this 100%

[openyoureyes]

So, rather than saying you are a no limits slave, it is better to say that you are a long term slave in a trusting relationship built up over time.

I agree with fetishdj on this, too. Especially because you say:


If playing outside of my relationship, I definitely have limits, though, because there are things I will do for him that I won't do for anyone else.

There are definitely things I do within my current relationship that I would never imagine myself doing for another person. A lot of that has to do with trusting the person you're with, thus you are able to push your limits further, or in your case, not feel the need to have limits because you wholly trust the person you're with.

[Flaming_Redhead]

Honestly, I don't think there's any such thing as a "true" no-limits slave. What people do who want that kind of relationship is find a compatible partner whose kinks and limits pretty much match their own before committing to them, and after a sufficient level of trust has been established, limits don't matter so much anymore. I think the terminology is a little off, but that's nothing new when you're looking for a succint way to say something and get your point across, i.e. using the word "switch" instead of "a sub who likes to top on occasion." Switch is okay to use, although as with anything else it may require further explanation because there are different kinds of switches....and different kinds of submissives.....and different kinds of slaves....etc.

It just seems a bit ridiculous, to me, to answer someone with a paragraph-long description, like "I'm submissive to my significant other with whom I engage in consensual nonconsent but also a sadomasochist who enjoys topping others outside of my primary relationship." I suppose I could copy and paste this.....:rolleyes:

[AnticipatingPain]

Safe words & limits can evolve and their definitions often change as a M/s or D/s relationships develop with trust.

All our relationships are utterly unique regardless of our 'labels' and although the fundenmental basics of safe words & limits are the same they can mean different things to us.

Personally I don't set my limits, he does. The same ethos with regards to a safe word.

As the membership of the library is forever changing and renewing; I think as long as we communicate the importance of limts & safe words to new members we are being responsible. Like wise if anybody is curious about my circumstances I'm always happy to explain.

[cadence]

I completely understand Red's point of view, I tend to feel the same way on the subject, but I do understand that new members may not entirely understand having limits vs. having no limits.

I don't like to say I have no limits, because I do, but it's really how one views the context of what "no limits" means.

Having no limits is just plain silly, since there are so many different fetishes, ideas and kinks to choose from, there couldn't possibly be a person who would enjoy them all.
Then there's the reality of limits as well. Who really would consent to amputation, or death by some form of kinky play.

It also raises the issue of consensual nonconsent, which is what I have agreed to enter into. It's hard to wrap your head around it sometimes. I may not enjoy all of his kinks, but I've been told that it's not really my choice in the matter.

I like to say that that I have few hard limits, or things that are definately off limits. Most of those off limit things are kinks he doesn't enjoy either.

Everything else is either going to be tried or tried and thoroughly enjoyed.

[thepast]

If I am having a convo w/someone that has been in the Lifestyle a while and has a general "understanding" of terminology and kink, I will use different verbage than if I were to have a conversation with someone brand spanky new to Lifestyle. I think that's only natural. You'd do the same thing regardless of whether it were Lifestyle, your favorite hobby, a situation in your home, something w/one of your kids/a spouse/a relative... you are naturally inclined to explain yourself at the level at which you believe you need to in order to communicate your point to the audience you are speaking with.

The problem comes in on the net, where you can't look at the other person or get in their head enough to know wtf their mind is thinking of, or know truly WHAT they know, or how much they know of it. It's great to hear "oh, I've been at this a while"---but that means a LOT of different things, esp. since the advent of internet BDSM.

Additionally, many people take terminology & use it when it's what they WANT to be rather than what they ARE. Whether it's because they don't want to admit it to themselves, or they want to give off a different external appearance... or... whatever... but it is what it is. Online, it's MUCH harder to "sniff out" the "truth" from the "fiction" in a snap--whereas in real life, I can tell in a heartbeat whether someone is what they say they are.

In other words, welcome to the internet universe.

This term, "no limits," is illusory as many have mentioned. The term is quite amorphous, really. It doesn't mean any one thing and yet it means a whole host of things. It's a common misnomer for abusive relationships, it's a common red flag for people looking for newbies in trouble, and, yet, it's also a somewhat-accurate term applied to many r/l 24/7 couples. So... which is it? When is it right to use? The answer? Really, anytime. It just isn't a stand-alone term, in my opinion. It needs some context. And, if someone fails to provide me context, I am going to lean towards thinking they are trying to "show off" or "make themselves something they aren't" rather than using it to really explain who they are.

All that being said, the comments here, I believe, are quite on point: yes, you can have people that have been in relationships a while, whose limits have merged w/their Dominant's limits to a point where it's a haze of "what is the limit, really?" You can also have the notion of "at some point, there's always a limit to what someone will do." You also have the "newbies should set stricter limits... know what they do & don't want to do... it helps to prevent bad situations."

I think the key is that people need to have discussions like this. It's ridiculous to assume that everyone is always "on the same page" or "understands eachother." We're a huge community. Why not take the 5 min to talk with someone and explain who you are, or talk about your situation, rather than simply saying, "yeah, I am a no limits slave to my Master." Don't you think that a 3 sentence description, albiet perhaps a bit verbose, might hit the spot more accurately? Since when did more words become crutches? I think in our quest to be inclusive, we've ended up starting to sell ourselves out to whatever lowest common denominator pigeon hole we can find, rather than truly saying who we are & what we stand for. I understand people get "tired of explaining themselves" to others. Ok. Then ask someone about THEMSELVES rather than talk about yourself for a day or two. Get to know other people. Or, stick it in your profile. Whatever. But the cop-out is simply that: a cop-out.

Just my two cents.

[Flaming_Redhead]

delia's $0.02 is more like $1. *lol* I agree that discussions and explanations are good, and it is harder online. Hell, the people who know me in person seem to have some trouble grasping what I'm telling them at times as well as myself trying to see where they're coming from, and it's because our lifestyles and relationships are so different. It can really get the fur flying sometimes when you're involved with a diverse group of people ranging from "old" lifestylers to newbies to bedroom kinksters to swingers to vanillas, all full of their own values, morals, judgments, etc. One of the things I've learned from my social circle is that no one can tell anyone who is right with any authority, so we agree to disagree. They ultimately decide what is right for themselves and just go with it no matter what anyone else thinks.

If I had listened to the people who told me I'm not a real submissive or that switches don't exist or that I'm a sick twisted fuck, despite what I know to be true in my heart, I wouldn't be the happy pervert I am today. Ok, the twisted fuck keeps coming up among ALL my friends, so I'm beginning to think they may be right about that at least.....*lol*

[openyoureyes]

It's alright to be a little twisted, Flaming_Readhead. ;)

I think we all land on different spots along the spectrum between vanilla and 'twisted fuck' and for most of us, that spot probably changes considerably throughout our life. And while we want to sum ourselves up in just a few words... I think it's nearly impossible to do so. :p

[IronMaster]

I've been taught and teach the term " no limits" describes the liomits of what a sub/slave wants to learn. As humans we all have limitations, mentally, physically and emotionally. But we have umlimited potential to learn. Usally a submissive takes on his/her dom's limits. We are only limited to what we limit ourselves to. But learning, you can aim as far as you allow yourself to go..... Just my opinion

[Jennifer Williams]

I honestly don't see the desire in having "no limits". If I could do anything at all to my sub that I wanted and he didn't flinch, or squirm, or whimper or get wide eyes...that would take all the fun out of it. Pushing limits is great fun, experiencing limits change is great fun, and I would never want to give that up. If you started off with no limits, then you'd have no way to change, nowhere to evolve into.

I also don't believe that it's possible to describe myself, my sub, or any other person I know in only a few words. I might spend my entire life trying to describe myself and never get it right. Humans are just far too complex and always changing to be fully described at all.

[denuseri]

Some limits imho shouldnt be pushed at all.

Nor is it nessesary to have ones hard limits nessesarally pushed to grow as a submissive. (Not that anyone is saying that per say)

[fetishdj]

I've always understood it that you have 'hard limits' which can never be broken (unless there has been a discussion about it beforehand and both sub and dom agree to it) and 'soft limits' which are things the sub is a bit iffy on but which a Dom may push a little in session.

So, for me, smoking is a hard limit. I hate the concept of it, I don't want it near me during a session, I cannot see this changing and would consider it a betrayal if a Domme broke that limit. The same goes for scat and bestiality.
Electrics, on the other hand, used to be a soft limit for me and still is to a certain extent but it has got softer over time. I had this limit pushed in a session, just a mild bit of electro-play, and that has encouraged me to try it more.

So, I think an important distinction is consent and when it is given. Soft limits may be pushed a little with no prior warning - brought up during the session in a 'why don't we try this?' sort of way - so long as you are careful with it, maybe ask how they feel about it now and start the sub off slow. Hard limits should never be tested unless the sub themselves comes to you to say 'I've had a rethink about this limit, I'd like to try it' and you discuss it and renegotiate the limit.