sex and minors

[emmaadmirer]

Well, at first hello to everyone, I am new here.

I would really like to know your opinions on this topic, I've written a story and posted it here, where two young boys have the luck to play with an adult woman. In my story, they are taking advantage, and she is only partly reluctant (Perhaps you could tell me, what you think of my story, and if I need an english editor. Did you like it or not, and if so, then why?)
But I am truely against sex with minors, and I am not talking about a 15 year old girl having a 18 year old boyfriend. I just want to say, that sex, where children are involved is more than only wrong. If so, it is against their will or they just don't know, at their age.
I would like to hear, what you think.

[Mobius]

Every one I can say is against pedophilia. It is 100% wrong to take advantage of children. But I can say that it gets a little greyer when they get older in the 15-16-17-18 age range.
Then it is not children it is teens. I will not download any pictures in that age range but I have been known to download a story in that age range. My personnel favorite story in that flavor is a dominant mother using a submissive daughter.

[drake7]

You actually touch on a problem with a certain segment of society that has issues with sites like this one.

Normal people of average, even below average, intelligence understand the difference between fantasy and reality. I can fantasize all day, as in your story, about sex between adults and minors and no one is injured. If my partner and I want to role play like that then certainly nothing is wrong with it. Some people don't seem to understand there is nothing wrong with this.

What is wrong of course is when those acts actually do occur. Perhaps there is a "gray area" as one of the replies to this post said, but legally that "gray area" isn't very gray at all. Some children under 18 are more mature than others, and some children under 18 are less. Some yardstick had to be decided upon and eighteen seems as good as any.

I personally find the idea of fantasizing about sex with a young girl to be exciting, but in reality I am sure it would be much less fulfilling than the role play you might get with a partner who shares your fantasy.

Drake.

[Mobius]

I have no intention in acting it out, with a partner that shares my fanticys or other wise.
"Homy dont go there".

[LadyAmanda]

First, bbeale7, let me say Thanks for the picture!! That looks just like Sylvie and I - I'm the one on top <LOL>. (but our boobs are bigger)

I think acting it out could be fun ... although I'm not sure my imagination is up to picturing Sylvie (whose 4 years older than me) as a young child ... hmmm, will have to give that some thought, & see what I can come up with.

[T-Luv]

I'm firmly in the camp that says "18" is an artificial, arbitrary age that was established solely for the purpose of encouraging young people to stay in school and finish their education. And this age limit was only established in the 20th century. The result is that people under 18, in general, have become far less mature than they were in earlier centuries, and far less able to "cope" with the responsibility that goes along with sexual relationships. They've been "dumbed down".

If it were God (or nature, for those who don't believe) who thought 18 was the age of majority, than why did He (or nature) make us capable or reproduction at 11-12-13? I heard Dr. Dean Edell (the radio doctor) state that biologically speaking, 14 is the ideal age for childbirth.

So that's what I believe. However, the law is the law and so I don't touch anything under 18 in real life. But I will happily and cheerfully write stories involving girls aged 13-18. I draw the line at stories involving prepubescent girls, so 13 as my low limit works well.

Just for the sake of being pedantic, those of us who get off on the idea of sex with post-pubescent (teen) girls are called "ephebophiles", not "pedophiles".;)

[Mobius]

Originally posted by T-Luv
I'm firmly in the camp that says "18" is an artificial, arbitrary age that was established solely for the purpose of encouraging young people to stay in school and finish their education. And this age limit was only established in the 20th century. The result is that people under 18, in general, have become far less mature than they were in earlier centuries, and far less able to "cope" with the responsibility that goes along with sexual relationships. They've been "dumbed down".

If it were God (or nature, for those who don't believe) who thought 18 was the age of majority, than why did He (or nature) make us capable or reproduction at 11-12-13? I heard Dr. Dean Edell (the radio doctor) state that biologically speaking, 14 is the ideal age for childbirth.

So that's what I believe. However, the law is the law and so I don't touch anything under 18 in real life. But I will happily and cheerfully write stories involving girls aged 13-18. I draw the line at stories involving prepubescent girls, so 13 as my low limit works well.

Just for the sake of being pedantic, those of us who get off on the idea of sex with post-pubescent (teen) girls are called "ephebophiles", not "pedophiles".;)

11-12-13 is still to young. society is not very forgiving even talking about it. That age range is just to young for any thing even remotely sexual.
Just taking a picture of a girl in that age range can get you put on a list that you will not easily get taken off of.
Botom line don't go there R kelly.


and those of us that can't spell are called "cantspelliphiles"

[veru_skjava]

I have to agree with everything that has been said here, and yet I think back to my own teen years.

When i finally decided (we boyfriend and i) to go for it we were 17, it was so disappointing compared to all the reading I had done in advance.
So fantasy provides the ability to overlook those lil silly realities like, how do i know if i've had an orgasm? crap and allows the fantasy to be what it is suppose to be, or hopefully is... *FUN!*

love the cantspellaphiles

veru skjava

[Mobius]

with all the site break downs I thought that got lost in the mix.
thanks
:p

[emmaadmirer]

Thank you forgiving so many replies. I have only been here once to ask you about your opinion. I think phantasies should not be censored, but some of them should stay phantasies (the picture is one of my phantasies, being watched and made fun of, hihi).
I hope, that some of you would perhaps give me a feedback for my story, too.
Where I live, we just saw Mulder and Scully (from the X-files) become a couple, what made me very happy (finally...)
I will add a picture (I hope it will work) and hope be able to put the following one to appear, when I want to say something here, in the forums, again (my avatar and it is already working, I see).

[emmaadmirer]

I hope you like the 2 pictures. I don't look too different to the girl in the picture. If you tell me (or order me), I will send you a photo of me (which doesn't show my face). This picture, coming on his boots, seems to be sooo fine to me.
I am rather new to this, but I hope to have made someone upset, hihi.

[Mobius]

Originally posted by emmaadmirer
I hope you like the 2 pictures. I don't look too different to the girl in the picture. If you tell me (or order me), I will send you a photo of me (which doesn't show my face). This picture, coming on his boots, seems to be sooo fine to me.
I am rather new to this, but I hope to have made someone upset, hihi.

You look about 16 very hot but illegal in the states
If you are over 18 please post more photos
If you are under 18 put some cloths on you hussie

[texswim]

First of all - I loved your story so far......keep it "coming"!

I have to agree with most everything written on this thread. There has to be a difference between fantasy (like this story) and real life. Hopefully, people using this site know that because that's the basis of almost all of the stories on this site. Besides - this is not the story about young girls but a story of teenage boys controlling an older woman. Now what teenage boy in high school didn't fantasy about one of their woman teachers?

As far as your pictures are concerned, I love them. If you look anything like the girl shining the boot, then you are trully one hot lady!

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Where the age of consent is 14.

Not that I will be fucking any 14 year olds anytime soon... or ever.

[emmaadmirer]

First I am 10 years older than 16, Sir bbeale.
And thank you Sir texswim for loving my story ;-)
I hope to be able to continue it soon, but I am too busy for the moment.
I am a little helpless with writing in english without my editor (and Sir), so I better add a pic I manipulated. I think I will better not put a pic of me here, although I suggested it earlier, I think I was too excited at that time, hihi.
If this pic is offending, I will remove it.
(I hope I am not annoying, but if you would tell soleil and me, what you think of our stories, we would be very happy, Sirs and Mistresses-soleil seems to me to be a very nice person-she has her own thread at Story Feedback)

[emmaadmirer]

the pic...

[Mobius]

Originally posted by emmaadmirer
the pic...

Bare foot (pregnant ) and raking the leaves.
My kind of girl

[emmaadmirer]

oh my god! (Sam please not)

[passenger]

I love your story and love the pictures as well. This fantasy of a rather mature woman being played with by two young boys is very arousing (because it is a fantasy, that reminds me of my teenage fantasies, I think a lot of guys will thank you for this story).
:D
keep up the good work, girl! (and what I read from you, you definately need a spanking):D

[emmaadmirer]

is better than nothing (poor me).
Thanks for your reply (sigh, I was close to deleting the pictures feeling a little left, even here on BDSM Library. )
Thank you, Passenger (feeling not so "strange" anymore

Your thankful Hihi

[junk1312vcs]

I agree with the others - really loved your story, really like the pictures. Can't wait for you to write more!

[everwilling]

Yeah, I know that pre-teen sex is a hot and volatile subject and that, at least in this country, jail time is the penalty if/when caught.

However, we should be aware that the world community, as a whole, does not share our feelings, concern and outrage at sex involving the very young.

Two extreme examples come to mind: The first are the Japanese, a first-rate, technological giant that wields a huge economic sword. Yet, men in that country believe that woman are no better than dogs. And ask yourself: Why are bangs, and dressing like a 12 year old, so popular for mature woman throughout the country?

The other example are those societies that have puberty rights that begin at birth. In Africa, there are tribes that find enlongated lips to be the height of eroticism. Training to increase the size of a woman's lips begins when she is very young, for the larger her lips at puberty, the better her chances are of being wed to a rich man. Hob 'bout female genital mutilation? Do you think the Chinese bind the feet of their female babies so save on shoe leather?

The Victorian double standard adopted by our own society is well documented, as is the moral outrage that it gives rise to.

Those that don't advocate or that feel outrage at sex with the young are supporting the feelings supported by their society. But (thank God!), not all societies have the same feelings.

Phew! Time for a tall glass of cold, pure water.

PS - I remember, as a youngster, the popular song that begins: Thank heavan, for little girls....

Okay, okay, just joking, I think....

[everwilling]

I almost forgot. In my worldly travels I've heard one consistent comment about pre-teen sex:

If there's hair on the mound, Play Ball!

[alebeard42]

I may not approve of murder, but I dont find I am supporting murder by reading a horror book
A similar concept for me is that in a story, in fiction, no one gets hurt, it is fantasy. When we start censoring thoughts and fantasy, we become the thought police

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... between teen and pre-teen. I have no problems reading teen stories (including15 and 16 year old stuff). I do, however, have a problem reading pre-teen stories. I'm talking the 6-11 year old stuff. So, what do I do about it? I don't read it. Simple.

I also don't have a problem viewing images of teen girls, but I have a huge problem viewing images of very young, preteen children. Despite the legality issue, I do believe that images of 16 and 17 year olds should be legalized. After all, 16 and 17 year olds are legal in most parts of the civilized world anyway.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there, so I'll not go into the rant again.

[alebeard42]

There is definitly a line for me, that is really puberty vrs prepubesant
It seems to me nature determines for us when we become sexual beings. There are good reasons why we in law make it illegal to have sex with a 14 year old, they are simply not mature enough to make choices and take on the responsibilities of a sexual dynamic, especially with an adult. But, In fantasy, in story, there is no harm being done. The desire can be explored without consequence to a real human being. I agree, the solution to underage characters is simple, dont read the story
Ale
http://www.paintoy.com

[woodsman'sgame]

Originally posted by everwilling
I almost forgot. In my worldly travels I've heard one consistent comment about pre-teen sex:

If there's hair on the mound, Play Ball!


Everwilling,

I had hair on my mound at 10 my older sister at 9. We both could have had children at that time, but we certainly weren't ready mentally. I didn't even know about intercourse until I was 11. Many Latin women mature sexually quite early but are much more naive than their anglo sisters about sex. You can toss the hair on the mound as a guide out the window.

[Mobius]

Originally posted by everwilling
Yeah,

The other example are those societies that have puberty rights that begin at birth. In Africa, there are tribes that find enlongated lips to be the height of eroticism. Training to increase the size of a woman's lips begins when she is very young, for the larger her lips at puberty, the better her chances are of being wed to a rich man. Hob 'bout female genital mutilation? Do you think the Chinese bind the feet of their female babies so save on shoe leather?


So what are you advocating? You feel that we in West are backward because we do not walk around with Dishes in our lower lips like the Ubangi. That are we socially retarded because we don't pee in the same river that we drink from.
I will bottom line it for you Sex with anyone under the age of consent is wrong Period. But having said that: If we took a poll of the women/men that lost there virginity at age twelve or even younger it would be uncomfortably high.
It is a little dark secret of the western society. I don't like it but it is still the truth.

BDSM_tourglide To you sir I feel taking pics or legalizing picks of Teens in the 17/16 age range is still to young. Because it would not stop at pics it would lead to Porn of 16/17 fucking like there are in the barley legal tapes of 18 year olds.
I don't think that the 18 year olds should be legal I think that they are to young also. There is a big difference between a 18 and a 21 year old.
No the 18 year old is not harmed and is emotionally capable of handling the act. But I don't think that they are mature enough to realize future consequences.

But having said all of this. I still like to read a story's based on teen sex. Yes it is wrong and but I dont think the penaltys should be as high as they are.
Imagen just becouse you have downloaded some pictures you are thrown away in the clink for 25 years.
The internet is still the wild west in some parts. I recently bought 22gigs of news groups from giganews proceded to download some pics movies and the like you would be amazed at the amount of "lolita images" that were not laybled Lolita
I downloaded stuff that was supost to be a hot babe.
And found to my horror it was a naked 12 year old.
Deleted it imediatly but it is still in the drive some place probly going to have to format one of my drives less the sex police come and make be bubbys girl freind for the next 20 years.

[redEva]

Not so long ago I had a conversation with a gentleman on these topics and, with all due respect Mobius, I have to agree for the most part with everwilling.

The limits and borders that our society has set up, do have some validity if we are discussing the psychological development of a child’s mind. But at the same time how can you justify the relaxed manner and acceptance of our North American society towards daily occurrence of minors (11-13 year old) having oral sex in school busses and empty classrooms and at the same time label the consensual sex between 16 and 21 year old a Statutory rape? I am not totally convinced that sex with toddlers or anything under 10 would be OK. I believe that human being needs time of “innocence” to be able to develop properly.

But why would you condemn society that “helps” development (body modification) by not so natural means while you have anorexic and bulimic pre-teenage girls in your neighborhood. You have to realize that just as it is normal to pierce ears on few-months-old girl here, it could be normal to pierce outer labial lips and start stretching them as soon as girl starts walking.

It is time/age and society that dictates what is acceptable.

[Mobius]

Originally posted by redEva
Not so long ago I had a conversation with a gentleman on these topics and, with all due respect Mobius, I have to agree for the most part with everwilling.

The limits and borders that our society has set up, do have some validity if we are discussing the psychological development of a child’s mind. But at the same time how can you justify the relaxed manner and acceptance of our North American society towards daily occurrence of minors (11-13 year old) having oral sex in school busses and empty classrooms and at the same time label the consensual sex between 16 and 21 year old a Statutory rape? I am not totally convinced that sex with toddlers or anything under 10 would be OK. I believe that human being needs time of “innocence” to be able to develop properly.

But why would you condemn society that “helps” development (body modification) by not so natural means while you have anorexic and bulimic pre-teenage girls in your neighborhood. You have to realize that just as it is normal to pierce ears on few-months-old girl here, it could be normal to pierce outer labial lips and start stretching them as soon as girl starts walking.

It is time/age and society that dictates what is acceptable.

I dont think it is normal to pierce babys ear's. I dont think it is right to eroticis any thing about a baby/ child /pre teen in any way.
Now even though I dont like it. I have to admit that yes it is done.
But to compare the relitive inecence of piercing ears to pierceing the outer labial lips of a todiler! Thats wrong, though go to far.

As far as elemantry/Highschool girls paying oral homage on school busses. It is not going to happen on my watch missy.
I drive a short bus that is filled with BD kids strieght out of Juvenail justice. They are about as bad as kids can get.

Sex and minors while it is great suff of fiction it is best left alone.
as they said on inliving color "homie dont go there"

PS just to clarify
Some of my coments may have led to some thinking I am pro sex with minors I am con I am against it.
Fun to read but dont go there

[woodsman'sgame]

Mobius wrote:
I dont think it is normal to pierce babys ear's. I dont think it is right to eroticis any thing about a baby/ child /pre teen in any way.


Hispanics pierce baby's ears, but it has nothing to do with eroticism. It does have to do with ornamentation of the body, but they do not see a correlation between the ear piercing and sex.
I had mine pierced as an infant.

There is a big difference between piercing ears and piercing or changing the appearance of the genitals, but even that isn't necessarily sexual.

United Statesian males are routinely circumcised as infants in hospitals, supposedly for health reasons. (Cleanliness usually takes care of this health risk, by the way.) In many countries this routine circumcision is considered a horrible practice that alters the male's penis and reduces his ability to enjoy sex. Circumcised males have reduced sensitivity compared to uncircumcised ones. Males who are not Jewish or Islamic in other parts of the world are not routinely circumcised.

Just some food for thought.

P.S. Ever wonder why this is routine practice in the US?

[Fox]

is the North American approach to sex, be it age-of-consent or under-age.

Example: "little miss" beauty pageants in which girls as young as 3 or 4 are paraded around wearing make up, ball gowns, etc. This can be extended to the recent "Junior American Idol" series on television.

Example: The United States is the largest creator of sexually explicit material in the world. It also has very restrictive laws governing sexual behavior and the creation of sexually explicit material.

Example: teen pregnancies in North America are on the rise, yet there is a strong anti-abortion movement, a myriad of roadblocks to access to birth control including a church prohibition.

Example: the return of syphillus as an STD, the growth of AIDS and other diseases, especially among the young.

Example: the "waif" look popularized in advertising

I could go on and on, but that's not the point here. The topic is sex and minors.

redEva is correct: It is time/age and society that dictates what is acceptable.

Our North American society is confused on the issue.

As an adult male, I have little interest in females who I perceive to be children - which is pretty much all females under age 18. The age is arbitrary - it is the perception that counts for me. I am attracted to women, not girls.

As an adult male parent, I find pedophilia reprehensible - I'd like to see such offenders spend six months in general population before the survivors get transferred to segregation.

As a parent, I know that children of all ages experiment with sex. This is normal and natural behaviour, and yet ...

I have had my daughter tell me she thought she was pregnant - and she was under 16 at the time. So this raised a few important questions: (1) does she have the child, either (2) to raise it herself or (3) leave it to her mother and I to raise? (4) How does this affect her future, (5) not to mention day to day life. (6) Does she have an abortion - (7) not to mention what do we feel about it? (8) Does the father have any say in this - he was under 16 too. (9) What about his parents?
And these are just the top-of-mind questions. It is not, no matter what any one says, a simple matter of age-of-consent.

Fortunately, she was not pregnant, so we did not have to pursue some of those avenues. It was a definite wake-up call, however. Yes, she was definitely old enough to have sex, but ... the consequences could have changed her life and the lives of others.

If you ask me (not that any did), until you have faced that kind of situation, you really can't speak about under-age sex.

Sex between children happens. Sex between adults happens. Our society likes to hide its head in the sand, pretending it doesn't, but ...

It is our responsibility as a caring society to ensure that proper sex education takes place, that pregnancy prevention resources are available to care for our children, and to see that our children do not become parents while they are still children.

We have not behaved responsibly, in my opinion.

[woodsman'sgame]

If you ask me (not that any did), until you have faced that kind of situation, you really can't speak about under-age sex.

I agree, Fox. I have a niece facing the same situation, but she is pregnant, the father is mentally ill, her parents are divorced, and she is going to have the baby (her decision). She is the sweetest, gentlest niece I have. It's heart breaking to see her suffer through this. She was under 18 and not ready for the responsibilities of sex.
I don't know if I said this here in this topic or in another topic, but I repeat. There is a big difference in maturity between teenagers in high school and those out of high school and in college. (18 being that magic age for most youngsters)
Either we teach them real responsibility at an earlier age, or we discourage intercourse until they are mature enough to handle the responsibility.
But, of course, we inform them about birth control etc, in case they don't listen to our advice (and we know that many teenagers won't).

[MrStefens]

Originally posted by Fox

It is our responsibility as a caring society to ensure that proper sex education takes place, that pregnancy prevention resources are available to care for our children, and to see that our children do not become parents while they are still children.

We have not behaved responsibly, in my opinion.

Very well stated Fox. Though I may be just a tad bit biased. I agreed with everything you wrote! One has only to look at the examples set by our Northern European brothers and sisters, with lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD rates and more explicit sexual health education at younger ages, to understand that we in the US can certainly care for our children's health in a more responsible manner.

[alebeard42]

Certainly we as a society have the right and the need to determine a set of standards by which a person can be deemed to be of the age of consent. But what of the age of non-consent?
When is it the right time to kidnap someone and torture them to your hearts content? at what age should we look to as the appropriate for the rape and torture of innocent preppie girls waiting at the bus stop after pep squad?
certainly I cant provide all these answers but its something that as a society we need to debate.
Certainly having developed breasts is important so they can be tortured and abused, this standard seems a good base to begin

Alebeard

[Master_chris]

'Certainly we as a society have the right and the need to determine a set of standards by which a person can be deemed to be of the age of consent. But what of the age of non-consent?'

This statment say's it all, I know that some countrys have the age of consent from the age of 10 years old, like the east countrys.

I think it is our place as a society to monitor the standards and change them as and when the society feels it is right, and that if someone cross over line or post underyear images on the web then we should report them to the local law enforcement

[john964]

The age of consent is at most a recent problem. My great-grand parents were married at age 15 and 22 and celebrated 56 years together. My grand parents 16 and 20 and were married for 72 years today my grandfathers would be arrested and sent to prison.