Justifiable Homocide

[thir]

I looked around some but can't seem to get a good link:

Can anyone tell me what this is all about????

Thanks.

[Thorne]

Not sure what you're asking, here. You mean the term? What does it mean?

To my mind, it's a homicide, the killing of a person, with justification. For example, if your life is threatened, you have the right to defend yourself, even if that results in the death of your attacker. Killing in self-defense is justifiable homicide. (Based on several discussions I had in the past with MMI, I'm not certain that this is true in the UK, though.)

[thir]

Not sure what you're asking, here. You mean the term? What does it mean?

To my mind, it's a homicide, the killing of a person, with justification. For example, if your life is threatened, you have the right to defend yourself, even if that results in the death of your attacker. Killing in self-defense is justifiable homicide. (Based on several discussions I had in the past with MMI, I'm not certain that this is true in the UK, though.)

Apparently there is something already regarding justifiable homocide, but this is to be extended.
I am not sure what the old laws covered, but the new ones seems to be aimed at protecting fetuses, and is said to be in order to lawfully kill abourtion doctors. Whether there is more to this I do not know, and below is all I could get my %&#%"!! pc to copy, I could not get the link but the article is in care2's 'causes and news' section and in 'civil rights.'

"South Dakota may have killed their "justifiable homicide" bill that many fear opens a legal loophole that would allow the killing of abortion doctors. But the trend is spreading -- Nebraska and now Iowa have introduced their own bills with even stronger language.

A law under consideration in South Dakota would expand the definition of "justifiable homicide" to include killings that are intended to prevent harm to a fetus—a move that could make it legal to kill doctors who perform abortions. The Republican-backed legislation, House Bill 1171, has passed out of committee on a nine-to-three party-line vote, and is expected to face a floor vote in the state's GOP-dominated House of Representatives soon."

[denuseri]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

Pretty much the above link to the wiki definition says it all and then some.

It really helps when you use the homicide spelling instead of homocide with your search engine

[Thorne]

Yeah, this is a whole different kettle of fish. The religious right of the republican party have been angling for something along these lines for years, just another way to make abortions impossible, since they can't seem to get enough support to make them illegal. It's the undying idea that a group of old men know what's better for people than the people themselves, especially when it comes to women and their reproduction. The republicans who got swept into office in the last election are turning to divisive topics such as this to keep people from focusing on the fact that they aren't really able to do anything about the real problems in this country.

Anyone know of a deserted island I can buy cheap? It just might be time to find another country to live in. One without so many imbeciles running the government.

[denuseri]

Is a small group trying to draw a link between justifiable homicide and the killing of abortion doctors the topic of this thread?

Which btw is not the official position of the republican party.

Becuase the definition of the term itself isnt in question that I could tell?

[Thorne]

Well, thir brought up the topic, justifiable homicide, and in her second post brought up the attempts at legislation in the midwest, all of which are being sponsored by republicans and which try to expand the definitions of justifiable homicide to the defense of fetuses. Granted, it's not the official position of the republican party, but it is far right wing republicans who are pushing these bills.

[denuseri]

Actually the only thing I could find about tieing justifiable homicide to anything even remotely related to abortion, was that some pro-abortion proponents had a mis-understanding and took too over blown tooting about online in a handfull of forums when a nebraska state legislator purposed a bill that would define and defend a pregnant woman who killed someone in self defence as a justifiable act of homicide to protect her unborn child.

(political party just like religious afiliation or lack there of : is irelevant anyways imho since there are plenty of people in both parties and in all belief systems ~which includes athiests by definition~ both for and against abortion)

The abortion rights proponents said that this paticular bill would somehow provide anti-abortionists in nebraska justification for defence in the killing of an abortion doctor as justifiable homicide...which I believe is a spurious corolation designed to add yet more sophistry to the media fire at best.

[thir]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

Pretty much the above link to the wiki definition says it all and then some.

It really helps when you use the homicide spelling instead of homocide with your search engine

I checked Wikepedia and found it wanting, it itself warned about this article.
Google is a polite and effective search engine, it simply corrects small mistales like that.

[thir]

Yeah, this is a whole different kettle of fish. The religious right of the republican party have been angling for something along these lines for years, just another way to make abortions impossible, since they can't seem to get enough support to make them illegal. It's the undying idea that a group of old men know what's better for people than the people themselves, especially when it comes to women and their reproduction. The republicans who got swept into office in the last election are turning to divisive topics such as this to keep people from focusing on the fact that they aren't really able to do anything about the real problems in this country.

Anyone know of a deserted island I can buy cheap? It just might be time to find another country to live in. One without so many imbeciles running the government.

I have found a bit more about 'justifiable homicide'. It would seem that it is really - or at least orignially - offical or lawful killing. Meaning lawful executions, soldiers in war, police etc.

As opposed to civil courts, with mitigating circumstances, self-defence, coercing, mental health, mercy killings and so on.

At least, I think so.

As for the link, it seemed to me that countries in which abortion is legal was trying to suggest legislation where it was also legal to kill abortion doctors, and I could not make sense of that.

[thir]

Is a small group trying to draw a link between justifiable homicide and the killing of abortion doctors the topic of this thread?

Which btw is not the official position of the republican party.

Becuase the definition of the term itself isnt in question that I could tell?

Not as much in question, as in confusion, you might say. What little I have found so far is largely self-contradictory. So yes, I am the small group all by myself :-) , and the topic was started by me because I had never come across this expression before and got very curious. I found it in an article that claimed that a law was either passed, or under consideration, in several states that would - or could - make killing abortion doctors lawful by way of making it justifiable.

I take this opportunity to say that my intention with this topic was not to start an abortion discussion. I have the impression that this is a highly sensitive and upsetting topic for many people, and that usually, after an exhausting debate, noone has had any new input. I am simply interested in the concept of justifiable homicide. I had a vague idea that it might have something to do with not just the abortion debate, but also mercy killings and maybe self defence.

I have to say I am still rather confused about the concept. If it does not mean lawful killing, then what?

[thir]

[QUOTE=denuseri;908941Actually the only thing I could find about tieing justifiable homicide to anything even remotely related to abortion, was that some pro-abortion proponents had a mis-understanding and took too over blown tooting about online in a handfull of forums when a nebraska state legislator purposed a bill that would define and defend a pregnant woman who killed someone in self defence as a justifiable act of homicide to protect her unborn child.
[/quote]

Sounds like it does not have anything to with lawful or 'official' killing, as some, especially British cites, sites define JH.
But I can't help wondering why present laws regarding self-defence are not sufficient.

[Thorne]

(political party just like religious afiliation or lack there of : is irelevant anyways imho since there are plenty of people in both parties and in all belief systems ~which includes athiests by definition~ both for and against abortion)
To a point I agree with you. All parties have their nutcases. But in the US, at least, the far right wing of the Republican Party seems to be infested with the hard-core religious . . . people, most especially the extremely conservative Christians.

And for the umpteenth time, atheism is NOT a belief system, but a denial of belief systems. Specifically, religious belief systems. Just like not believing in unicorns is NOT a belief system.

[denuseri]

Sounds like you would rather go onto a bully pulpit rant about religion and anything accosicated with it rather than discuss the topic of abortion or what justifiable homicide is or is not?

The Republican party in America is no more controlled by anti-abortionists or people of any given religious afiliation than the democrats are, just becuase the media (and you apparently) like to paint them that way, doesnt mean thats the way they are.

[Canyon]

For instance, some Conservitive Republicans actually enjoy this BDSM site.

[Canyon]

I would like to know why we need that law in the first place though. If Self Defence is justifiable, its justifiable. or should the same thing be more justifiable for certain races and classes. That is a can of worms which then leads to using races and classes as part of the defence equasion. Remember that remark (cannot remember who said it) about hearing someone comming up on you at night, and being glad because they were not black.

Justifiable homicide must be kept simiple. Too many times allready race, etc is interjected and good people get into the legal fight of their lives, against politically correct DA's etc. for the horrible sin of wanting to live, rather than being executed quietly because they did not have enough money etc, so the thug can decide they deserve to live.

Follow Masaad Ayoob's writings to learn more.

[Thorne]

The Republican party in America is no more controlled by anti-abortionists or people of any given religious afiliation than the democrats are, just becuase the media (and you apparently) like to paint them that way, doesnt mean thats the way they are.
I didn't say the whole party was controlled by them, just the far right wing. Mostly, the Republican and Democratic parties are both controlled by those corporate assholes you hate.


Sounds like you would rather go onto a bully pulpit rant about religion and anything accosicated with it rather than discuss the topic of abortion or what justifiable homicide is or is not?
Gee, I thought I'd stated my position on what justifiable homicide is: it's killing someone in self defense or in defense of someone else, when there is no other option available. Killing an abortion doctor is not justifiable, unless he's running around kidnapping pregnant women and forcing them to have abortions. Killing women by preventing them from having abortions is not justifiable, either. Allowing women the OPTION of removing unwanted parasitical tissue from their bodies, on the other hand, is totally justifiable. And it's not homicide.