Sefl worth and submission

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

I have spent the last few years observing, getting to know and learning from other members of this site. The chat room is a place where all different kinds of personalities come together and mingle, meet, sometimes pair off, sometimes lament their inability to find the right one and sometimes just seek reassurance from others. The one thing I have noticed that is always present is submissives who seem to lack confidence in themselves. Maybe they were mentally abused by a Dominant, maybe they had a bad childhood, there are so many reasons.

From the start, I was taught that to submit your will, body, mind and whole self to your Master/Dom/me, you must first have confidence and be self aware. How can you give something to another that you are not yourself possessed of? This question always nags at my mind. I see young or new subs come into chat and they speak of themselves as if they are worth nothing. They have no self confidence, no love for who they are.

IMHO you really cannot love another if you don't first love yourself. The same goes for submission. You cannot fully submit to the will of another without first knowing what you are giving to them. Yes, my Master teaches me, guides me, Owns me and is the One who controls me. But before I could kneel before Him and accept his Ownership and give Him my submission, I had to know what I was giving.

When you have been broken down by things in your life that leave you hopeless and self-loathing, it takes a long time to figure out who you are and really be able to look at yourself and accept what you see. I know this because I was there once too. I had to tell my Master, "I am not ready yet. I need to find myself and love myself before I can give You what You deserve." Fortunately for me, He was patient, because HE knew that I was meant for Him and that I could be no other Master's slave long before I figured it out.

My point, I guess, is....It is only natural to seek a Dominant or Master to serve and to want that so badly you can't think straight. You need that guidance and you need that control because it is who you are. But before you kneel and pledge yourself to anyone, be sure you know and love yourself. If you don't respect yourself, you can never fully understand what you are giving when you submit to another.

It took me a LONG time to figure that out. A few failed relationships and some real soul searching made me realize that I could not be the submissive/slave He deserves when I could not even hold my head up with pride at who I was first.

Even now, when I am not feeling like I am good enough, I have a mantra, given to me by Master....."I am worthy." And I have to remember to tell myself that every day.

~fyre~

[scarlet_85]

Honestly... I don't think I could add anything else to that. You are so right! I've said so many times that you have to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with someone else. Kudos on your post. It offers great advice with a clear train of thought. Brilliant!

:)

[denuseri]

I agree sisa, very wise words that all should take to heart!

Additonally...I think one reason we see so much of the "doormat" types is becuase a lot of people who come online havent actually participated in real life with bdsm before and they are opperating on several misconseptions.

[DowntownAmber]

Agreed, a person does have to be healthy themselves before they can be in a healthy partnership. BDSM or vanilla, that's advice everyone would do well to heed. I do think it's likely to see more subs gather under that low self-esteem umbrella, however, do to the broad assumptions about what a submissive is or is not, and the personalities of all types that the label draws to itself.

The only thing submissives really have in common is that we submit. We perform an action that is unique in execution person to person, due to motives also unique person to person.

And frankly, if a lot of the low confidence women to which you're referring ever bolstered up their self-esteem, their desire to "submit" would likely fly right out the window. I hate to say it but as healthy as this lifestyle can be for some, it can be equally detrimental to others. Submission itself can be symptomatic of some very unhealthy thought patterns and processes (and a lot of us ignore that fact because we don't want to admit that what we're having fun with and growing with can actually be kinda' sick).

A few months ago, I had dinner with a co-worker and his friend over at the friend's home. This friend's "girlfriend" set off every subbie radar I have, so at the point the boys wandered off to poke around in the shop I asked her to tell me about the relationship. She acted for a moment like she wasn't sure what I was asking, so I pulled out a picture of J and I in which she could clearly see my collar. She immediately started to spill, talking about how her Owner was a higher class than her, better than her, smarter than her and how she was lucky that he was letting her be there. She talked about her past relationship (abusive of course) and how her Owner had given this last guy roughly six bucks and some clove cigarettes for her.

She and I talk on a somewhat regular basis now, and it comes across as pretty clear to me that she's not happy in her position, per se, just completely unable to envision herself anywhere else. She is baffled as to how I can be a sub in the first place, and beyond that how I don't automatically think my Dom is smarter and better than me.

On the positive side, this girl's Owner is a pretty nice guy, mostly decent to her, but were they ever to part ways (which they will, I'm sure, as I get the impression he's more attached to the live in maid than he is to the person) I can't imagine what would become of her. She's simply not equipped to function on her own. When I've talked to her about things like getting her driver's permit or working outside of the home she's laughed it off by saying, "well if I did those things then I'd be the Owner!"

*sigh* It's a funky world out there...

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

Thank you Amber...I think you really have a great point there. It is sad, but true. Also good to see your sexy ass again! lol haven't seen you in a while...

Thanks denu as well for your input. And Scarlet, appreciate the compliment!

[DowntownAmber]

lol haven't seen you in a while...

I've been a little busy these days moving, being promoted, and working on another degree. Perhaps I ought to learn to relax??

[VaAugusta]

Psssst
Self confidence is super attractive, ladies. Just saying.

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

Psssst
Self confidence is super attractive, ladies. Just saying.

Thanks Va! I hope the girls who feel like they need a boost of it read this thread.

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

SELF worth......I can spell!! :P

[Ozme52]

Consider the dominant and how he (or she) must feel having chosen a submissive who considers her (or him) self worthless. Insulting I'd say.

Of course the very best submissives are outstanding people, fully deserving of the very best in dom/mes... as are those above whom I've met. As are those above whom I still hope to meet in the future.

To Amber's point, I can empathize with your concerns for your new acquaintance, but she'll eventually convince her dom she's right and he will let her go. And she'll fall back to someone unworthy and abusive. There's nothing you can do for her, imo. She has to come to the realization herself that she is valuable, worthy, and deserving. It's happened to me... once online, once an LDR. Both women eventually convinced me I was wasting my time. I did far better starting with a girl who already knew she was valuable. We can deal with the occasional self-doubt, but not the constant self denigration. And not with the implicit insult that we've chosen someone worthless.

[Snark]

Apparently 6 bucks and a pack of clove cigs are what she is worth. And she agrees. This is sad. Does the guy (I won't use the term Dom) keep other things of such small value? Other than disposables? Which I expect he will consider her to be as well. She should be the most precious and valuable thing in his life. Properly respected for her submission and treated as a precious jewel. Of course even precious jewels require polishing on occasion...

[Austerus]

I completely agree with the main thrust of this thread, that a person needs to have self respect and self knowledge in order to be interesting and useful as a long-term submissive She needs to value herself and her submission, and needs to feel fulfilled and happy with her actions and her life to be someone who is more than a passing fancy. People who don't have any self-worth should really seek help, professional or otherwise, and work on improving themselves to the point that they feel they can take joy in life.

That said.

I don't necessarily agree that a dominant shouldn't be a "higher class" than his submissive. I work very hard, am quite successful by most measures, and am very ambitious. For a woman to be my "social equal" she would need to either


be in the same professional circles as I am, which means she's working very hard and concentrates a lot on her career. I don't really want that, as I want someone who focuses on me, and who feels fulfillment through improving and supporting my life
be of a "trophy wife pedigree" which generally means some combination of great schooling, good family, great looks, charity participation, etc. These things all come along with their own baggage, and these people don't necessarily intersect with sweetness and light as much as you might think :P


I'm also totally fine with being "smarter" than a sub. There's a saying: "smart, sexy, sane. Pick two." For me, as a personal choice, I would prefer sexy and sane. YMMV.

If I had a choice between

A) a lovely, well-bred "smart, social equal" who could attend professional and social/professional events, was a sparking conversationalist, and who had great connections and networks but had her own career and goals and was as busy as I am "outside the home"
OR
B) an attractive, less well-educated, sweet girl who dedicated her life to improving mine and who served me thoroughly and loyally, but who I couldn't "take out in public" as a partner


I would choose B every time.

As a final note, @Snark, I know what you mean but it's hard to hold that situation entirely against the guy. It's pretty tough to value and cherish someone who values herself around $10, and it sounds like he's at least giving her more respect than she gives herself.

My son's contribution to the conversation:
zzzzzzzzssaazzaaq
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p.s. - I use dominant/he and submissive/she because I am a straight male dominant, not because I believe that women can't or shouldn't be dominant or that men can't or shouldn't be submissive.

[Ozme52]

Dammit Austerus. Now I have to modify my job applications form.

[Austerus]

Just saying :P

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

I am not sure where the higher class issue came in but I did not mean that at all in my post. I don't believe I said anything about 'class' but maybe it was someone else.

I personally would only and DO only submit to a Master who can match or exceed my own intelligence in every way. He is always one step ahead of me and that in itself is VERY rare for me. lol Very few of the true submissives/slaves I have met here would be considered less than VERY intelligent. I know many women of 'breeding' who are complete fools, regardless of their pedigree. All the degrees in the world won't help when a person can't even spell the word "you're" in the correct context.

My question is, would you not become exceedingly bored with a submissive with whom you could not have real conversations? Is she not more or less your companion as well? You live together, are intimate with each other, there has to be SOME speaking at some point, right?? As for "not being able to take out in public" I can only assume that is because she would be considered too dumb or too trashy. But as her Master, is it not your duty to ensure her education in all things, including how to properly handle herself in social situations and proper etiquette when dealing with other people outside the home?

My personal experience as a submissive has been that learning is key to our service. If you (a submissive/slave) start out dumb and you are kept dumb, how will you ever improve your service or yourself? This lifestyle requires constant learning and adapting to changing needs both physical and emotional. Strength of character as well as mind are necessary for any submissive to truly embrace her service to her Master. There are so many details to remember and so many responsibilities. I can't imagine how anyone who is considered 'dumb' could possibly be a true submissive, male or female.

If you are simply looking for a housemaid who will have sex, there are plenty on craigslist. But if you are looking for a submissive who can serve with pride and honor you as a Master, then perhaps something with a little more depth might be in order.

I mean no disrespect to anyone's position or views with this post and I am not addressing anyone specifically, but rather speaking generally and sharing my thoughts in response to the posts in this thread.

~Master's muse~

[Austerus]

Heya fyre,
I was responding more to some of the follow-up messages in the thread than to your original one. I think you're on point with your message, and I think it's an important one for people to see, believe, and internalize.

I am also not trying to say that a sub should be dumb/ignorant, unable to learn, unable to have a conversation, or unable to provide companionship. I was expressing my belief that there's nothing wrong with a dom being "a higher class" and/or "smarter" than his sub. There are of course a lot of sources of value, and a lot of kinds of class, but I was referring particularly to social/professional class. I don't think there's anything wrong with a dom being wealthy/upper class with a sub who is poor/lower class, or that there's anything wrong with them both being aware of and acknowledging that. In fact I think it's kind of hot. (Judging by some of the stories in the library I'm not the only one). If that means that the sub is more of a homebody and can't effectively participate in some parts of the dominant's social or professional life, I don't think there's anything wrong with that either.

Regarding intelligence, my "pick 2" quote was meant to be some tongue-in-cheek humor, and as I said I'm certainly not in favor of someone too dumb to learn things or who can't carry on a conversation. I would much rather have someone who was interested, creative, and proactive about finding ways to make me happy. Frankly though I don't need a rocket scientist for a girl. I have very little in the way of rocket design needs. If a girl _happens_ to be a rocket scientist, and can either balance her intellectual life with serving me or can get her intellectual fulfillment just from serving me? Well ok, awesome...but in a sub, for me, I value high levels of sweetness, obedience, loyalty, eagerness to please, (yes) self-worth, attractiveness, and other qualities more than I value high levels of "smart."

On the topic of breeding/pedigree, again I wasn't talking about the inherent worth or coolness of a person, but rather a person's social/economic class and the level to which they can easily fit into or circulate in the same circles. I don't think "well-bred" people are smarter (quite the opposite) but I do think that people who are either themselves very professionally driven or who come from particular backgrounds have an advantage in social/business interactions in professionally driven and/or wealthy circles. It's not a value judgment.

I'll bow out of the thread at this point if you like, as I think it's an important topic that you've presented well and I don't want to distract too much from it with sidebars. If you would like to carry on the conversation in a separate thread just point me to it and I'd be happy to participate.

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

nah, it's cool. I think I have said all I need to say about it. Thanks for your input! :)

[10K]

I'm really glad to have read this thread.

As an aspiring male Dom I think this has had some very valueable points that I need to add to my own fetish philosiphy before I take a slave.

I thinks this or somethign similar will be the most important addition I have found in this thread "From the start, I was taught that to submit your will, body, mind and whole self to your Master/Dom/me, you must first have confidence and be self aware. How can you give something to another that you are not yourself possessed of?" This much more efficiently expresses that which I feel the need to impress upon a slavegirl before training her. I'm very glad you said this and I hope I can figure out a way to place this in my fetish philosophy.

In any case I absolutely agree in every level. The purpose of Dominance/submission should not be to denigrate the submissive or feminimity (as I am a Heteorsexual Male Dominant) but to allow her the opportunity to express herself in a way she could not otherwise. It is a decision all her own and she cannot make it in an attitude of low self-esteem. She has a right to submit and a right to leave.

Forgive me if this sounds plagiaristic, I am trying to figure out how to communicate such with a submissive of my own.

"She immediately started to spill, talking about how her Owner was a higher class than her, better than her, smarter than her and how she was lucky that he was letting her be there. She talked about her past relationship (abusive of course) and how her Owner had given this last guy roughly six bucks and some clove cigarettes for her."

I think I feel sorry for her, I hope she finds her way to a better life, submissive or otherwise.

I don't really see why the submissive has to be seen as "lower", I mean I don't see any reason why she can't be "higher" than her propertier. I'm actually right now a less educated guy, I am working my way through college (with a little difficulty) and I do want to graduate college, but I don't really want to be some type of high-flying corporate executive with a huge house and tedious, to me, social obligations, or even a lot of money. I don't mind a slavegirl with a job if its what she wants, provided she still submits her schedule to my approval (as much as she is able) and wears her chastity belt to work.

Honestly one of the reasons I'm not sure I want to do this is that for me I kind of have two different opposite fantasies. One is of a harem of submissive slavegirls who offer themselves and every part of their lives to me. Another is a long term relationship with a woman who could live completely independedntly of me, not a Domme, but a beautiful foreign girl whom I could live with even if we never had sex once in our entire lives. Tell you the truth you've never known how beautiful an asian woman can be until you've seen her in military fatigues. That's when I say "oh god, I want to have her babies" keep in mind this is not "I want her to have my babies" I literally thought "I want to have her babies" yeah like me, a guy, getting pregnant for her. No joke.

I've done a lot of thought and I know for a fact that women with a proactive attitude are exceedingly attractive to me, whether she's a Soldier-girl, a Police Officer or a civil rights activist, therein lies a lot of sex appeal (either sexual/intimate or personal/romantic or both) irregardless of appearance. I also however, have entertained fantasies of submissive obedient girls who happily serve me whether she receives the privelidge of offering me pleasure exclusive of her own, the privelidge of offering to share mutual pleasure with me or the privelidge of me offering pleasure while she remains passive, performing no concurrent activity to please me, among other things she might be required to do. I'm honestly really not sure what I want to do.

"She and I talk on a somewhat regular basis now, and it comes across as pretty clear to me that she's not happy in her position, per se, just completely unable to envision herself anywhere else. She is baffled as to how I can be a sub in the first place, and beyond that how I don't automatically think my Dom is smarter and better than me."

For all the things I don't know, I know I don't want to own a girl like this. I'm certain she's a nice young (or maybe older) lady than me, but it does sound like she's in less than healthy a condition than I feel comfortable with. I think I already said, I hope she finds her way in life.

"Self confidence is super attractive, ladies. Just saying. "

I couldn't agree more I've said I certainly don't want to dominate a girl without it.

"Consider the dominant and how he (or she) must feel having chosen a submissive who considers her (or him) self worthless. Insulting I'd say."

Certainly a Propertier should respect his property. A person's "value" is not effected by the value of his or her possession's, but by the respect and impact he or she has on those around him or her. Many among the lower class are more "value-able" by far than those at the very top of corporate ladders. Why? Well, consider the effect he or she has on those around him or her? Hmmm, I'm not a christian, but I think one of Jesus Christ's parables may be of value here. It's the one where the apostles are at the church and these rich men put in large sums of money into the donation box, but a a poor woman puts in only a little. The apostles are mystified when Christ says her contribution was greater than all those rich men, he explains she gave all she had where the rich men gave little of what they have... A Dom should have respect for his slave and he should earn her respect in return.

"Apparently 6 bucks and a pack of clove cigs are what she is worth. And she agrees. This is sad. Does the guy (I won't use the term Dom) keep other things of such small value? Other than disposables? Which I expect he will consider her to be as well. She should be the most precious and valuable thing in his life. Properly respected for her submission and treated as a precious jewel. Of course even precious jewels require polishing on occasion..."

I need to put some more thought into this myself.

" A) a lovely, well-bred "smart, social equal" who could attend professional and social/professional events, was a sparking conversationalist, and who had great connections and networks but had her own career and goals and was as busy as I am "outside the home"
OR
B) an attractive, less well-educated, sweet girl who dedicated her life to improving mine and who served me thoroughly and loyally, but who I couldn't "take out in public" as a partner"

This is kind of where I am right now. I'm not as sociable as you though and much more introverted.

"I personally would only and DO only submit to a Master who can match or exceed my own intelligence in every way. He is always one step ahead of me and that in itself is VERY rare for me."

You and I are very different. I have no issue Dominating a proffesional woman, so long as her professional life does not interfere with my dominance over her. I would not mind owning a girl who is an engineer, a doctor, a soldier, a police officer or who has a doctorates degree in mathmatics, psychology, sociology or any other kind of advanced education. I do not care if she is more intelligent than I, if she wishes to be submissive and to conform to the expectations and demands of another and she is a fit for my own interests, then I don't much mind her intellectual backround. Intelligent women are interesting.

"My question is, would you not become exceedingly bored with a submissive with whom you could not have real conversations?"

Yes, and I would want to own a girl whom I could socialize with as friends in addition to dominating her.

"not being able to take out in public"

I've always considered fetishes to be a private matter. I don't really want to share such with the public....least of all my mum, my conservative mormon mum.

"I can't imagine how anyone who is considered 'dumb' could possibly be a true submissive, male or female."

Like I said I wouldn't want a "dumb" one. If she wanted to gain a higher education I would certainly support it, bearing in mind to balance it with other aspects of her life.

"I don't think there's anything wrong with a dom being wealthy/upper class with a sub who is poor/lower class, or that there's anything wrong with them both being aware of and acknowledging that."

What about a sub from a wealthy backround who serves a Master from a poor or lower middle class backround? Say she has no interest in highering her education or a proffesional life outside of service to her propertier so she makes no money. Say her Master makes a moderate income for a few amenities.

"I would much rather have someone who was interested, creative, and proactive about finding ways to make me happy."

Agree, though as a guy who roleplays a submissive female, I've come up with some pretty interesting ways to please the male body.

"If a girl _happens_ to be a rocket scientist, and can either balance her intellectual life with serving me or can get her intellectual fulfillment just from serving me?"

Agreed, if she wants a life not specifically tied to me alone, whether a prefessional work life or an intelectual one, who am I to complain? provided she can balance her life to serve me.

"I don't think "well-bred" people are smarter"

Also agreed.

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

ok so I am back...lol

thank you for your response to this post 10K. I am so glad you have found it useful and helpful. There are always so many members here who are available to answer your questions about any number of things, and I have been fortunate enough to learn from some of the best here. I sincerely hope your journey lasts for a long time and you find the balance you need to make it work for you. I have, and I am one very lucky girl.

There is but one thing I wanted to clarify for you,

"I've always considered fetishes to be a private matter. I don't really want to share such with the public....least of all my mum, my conservative mormon mum."

I understand that, and in no way did I mean to take the 'fetish' side out in public. I simply meant, if Master wanted to take me out for a meal, I would be pleasing in every way, and no one would ever know I was Owned by Him while we were out. It is my duty to represent Him in all ways, and that includes when we are not in private. If you cannot be proud of your sub/slave at all times, then it is my belief that they are not for you. Again, just my belief.

Please feel free to comment more, as I appreciate the feedback and the different viewpoints. It is all about learning, after all!

~Master's muse~

[DowntownAmber]

Oz: all points we've discussed before and are in general agreement on. But, in this case, you're assuming it matters to the Dom in question.

In a general sense, there are "Doms" out there that frankly operate under the assumption that they are better, smarter, and of a higher class than their submissives. That's not the type of Dom you are, nor the type of Dom I'd choose, but we both know they exist - I'm certainly not describing anything you haven't seen a hundred times before.

In a specific sense (and as relates to this particular couple), I don't think the girl's current Owner is actually all that bad of a guy, or really all that bad of a Dom. I get the impression that he met his pet and her previous owner, realized it was a shitty, abusive situation and he made the move to remove her from it. Does he care for her? Is he good to her? Of course, but the emotional investment isn't nearly as deep as many of the partnerships we've both seen in this Lifestyle. The relationship existed in the beginning because it seemed like the right thing to do in the moment, and it has continued because it's pretty easy for them both, I just have a hard time seeing it as a "forever" situation unless something changes.

If you cruise through this summer I'll make a point to introduce you, you can tell me what you think of the dynamic for yourself. There are a few more details at play that would simply get too long winded to go into here.

[DowntownAmber]

Apparently 6 bucks and a pack of clove cigs are what she is worth. And she agrees. This is sad. Does the guy (I won't use the term Dom) keep other things of such small value? Other than disposables? Which I expect he will consider her to be as well. She should be the most precious and valuable thing in his life. Properly respected for her submission and treated as a precious jewel. Of course even precious jewels require polishing on occasion...

I don't know that I'd agree with the fact that she "should be" anything to him. In a perfect world full of perfect relationships, sure. But, as I mentioned in my reply to Oz, in this case he removed her from an abusive situation and put her in a safer place. They cohabitate, but she has the downstairs apartment in his home and he has his own space. It is not a relationship much more complex than, well, kinky roommates to be honest. This is likely a whole 'nother thread, but in a general sense what else is he actually "obligated" as an Owner to do here?

[VaAugusta]

There are a few more details at play that would simply get too long winded to go into here.

Are you suggesting that relationships are complicated? And that the distinction between bad dom/good dom is not as black and white as everyone would like to suggest? Quelle revelation!

But to answer question 2, I think it goes: If I am dominate, then every other one is bad. amirite

[10K]

"I understand that, and in no way did I mean to take the 'fetish' side out in public. I simply meant, if Master wanted to take me out for a meal, I would be pleasing in every way, and no one would ever know I was Owned by Him while we were out. It is my duty to represent Him in all ways, and that includes when we are not in private. If you cannot be proud of your sub/slave at all times, then it is my belief that they are not for you. Again, just my belief."

Actually I have had thoughts along these lines, the other day I was thinking about having my girls with me at a restaurant, though I would never reveal in such a context that they were my slavegirls and their chastity belts would be concealed beneath their clothes. Though it might seem a little funny to observers, a white guy like me taking out three to five asian girls to eat, but I think it would be okay. After all giving them a treat would be a good thing for them and even a slavegirl needs a rest from sex at times.

I think though that, within the harem, there should be an attitude of complete transparency, Master to slave, slave to Master, slave-sister to slave-sister, even about things we are uncomfortable talking about, and I know I have a few. However outside the harem one harem member may speak about his or her fetish or sexual feelings, but should not discuss other harem members unless that member self-identifies. The same applies between all harem members, Master, slave and slave-sister, since all members of the harem are of equal importance.

[DowntownAmber]

Are you suggesting that relationships are complicated? And that the distinction between bad Dom/good Dom is not as black and white as everyone would like to suggest? Quelle revelation!

Something like that...lol Perhaps to put it even more simply, relationships are just different. People are different. Not all subs are precious little buds just waiting to bloom, and sometimes all it takes to be a Dom is six bucks and a hard pack of Black Diamonds. And Hell, that may even be all it takes to be a pretty decent Dom.

I know, I know, that kinda' kills the romance of it all but there ya' go.

Years ago I would have struggled against that notion - I wanted everyone that lived and loved under the banner of "submissive" with me to be like me so I could be proud of my own label. For my own sake, for my own ego, I needed and wanted other "real" subs to be healthy, strong and precious creatures so I could hold to that in defense of my own identity. I needed and wanted other "real" Doms to be healthy, strong, and honorable leaders so I could hold to that in defense of my own identity in relation to them. Of course, after about thirty seconds or that I pulled my head out of my ass and rejoined the real world where some people are cool, some are righteous assholes, and the only one that I can control and worry about is myself. And somehow after thinking that audacious though the world kept spinning.

And now I'm going to shut the f*** up because I'm pretty sure I just hijacked an otherwise very nice thread. Again. :D

[Austerus]

Goddamn Amber, posts like that make me wish the forum had upvotes. Nicely put.

And now I'm going to shut the fuck up because I'm pretty sure I just hijacked an otherwise very nice thread. Again.

[suchaminx]

I haven't contributed to the thread - but I must admit kinda like the hi-jacking and don't really see it as that - just the thread expanding and growing, which is great :)

[10K]

*hacks the site, hi-jacks the thread, moves it to another website I managed to hack simultaneously while hacking this one*

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

*hacks 10K and takes back MY thread*

*smiles sweetly*

[Ozme52]

If you cruise through this summer I'll make a point to introduce you, you can tell me what you think of the dynamic for yourself. There are a few more details at play that would simply get too long winded to go into here.

Trying to tempt me Amber? ;)

[DowntownAmber]

Trying to tempt me Amber? ;)

If I were trying to tempt you I'd come up with something much more alluring than that. C'mon man, give me some credit. *hehehe*

[10K]

Just to clarify one thing I think may have confused you guys on.

My mum is the type of person who says to you "[person] is gay, isn't that gross" or I'll show her a photograph of a girl and she'll flip and go on this rant about girls flaunting herself all over the internet. Which is kind of stupid-funny because the girl in the photograph is wearing clothes, and not small ones either, in fact the image was called "Boa_Nike_Ad" so I'm assuming that whomever posted it up on the place I got it from had cropped it off of a larger image. In any case, never-mind the fact she flipped out before I had the opportunity to make the point I was trying to make by showing her the image, that is: Asian women with brown hair a very beautiful.

So if your parents are open minded enough that you feel comfortable discussing your fetishes with them then good for them, but please don't judge me because mine are self-righteous conservatives.

Also I do feel uncomfortable about my sexuality, largely because I'm not sure what to think of it. I'm trying to decide, but I don't know.

In any case thanks for bringing up your concern. I appreciate it.

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

10K:

Thank you again for your post. I don't think anyone here is judging you. I have never experienced that here. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with things but please never feel like you can't be open about who you are here. :)

[hellman]

I can't imagine how anyone who is considered 'dumb' could possibly be a true submissive, male or female.

i have sent a long time reading all the posts here and 99% of it is good but this one line just got my back up but did not up in till i read the rest to see if any one els was upsit with it as i keep hear you be your self and no one will be judging you. but reading the post no one care as long your not dumb i my not be right but that is judging at is wost i'm not top of the class maybe just off the bottom and no that is not putting my self down it is true but i'm sill a sub and i love it dont for get with out people at the bottom there is no top and just cose so calld "dumb" people can not chat about what your like you can not chat to them about what they like and to get back to what i saying what give you the right say "dumb" can not be sub and sorry for the spelling and hope you get what i mean

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

I just saw this. hellman, I believe you misunderstood me. I was actually complimenting all of the wonderful and intelligent subs I have met since I began this journey. It takes intelligence, confidence and self worth to be a sub/slave. All of those qualities are possessed ten times over by the subs I have met in here.

So please don't take offense. It was not intended to offend, but to compliment!

:)

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

Bump...just felt like repeating myself. :)