about caning

[Andromeda]

I have a question about the use of the cane. When the buttocks are struck the first stab of pain seems to be followed by a second one like an echo some 6 to 8 seconds later. I read somewhere on the web that this is quite general and that the time interval doesn't vary from one person to another. Does anyone have any more specific information about this? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

:)

[Ladyvet]

I don't know the mechanism but I experience the echo, too. It might have something to do with some of the pain receptors being numbed by the blow, then reacting. I find the echo more pronounced in my breasts than my buttocks. I don't have as much padding upstairs. My back (especially my shoulder blades) and inner thighs don't echo blows. They burn, then ache.

[tallon]

I saw your posting about caning and found it interesting.. something to store away for future reference.
Do you have any expereince with use of a battery powered fence charger for electro shock play? Or the "bug zappers:?
My sub needs another level of distraction.
Thanks.. this is serious inquiry. I really am looking to learn rather than experiment.
Tallon

[bunnyrabbit48]

The echo is the fun part. It's the forming and expanding of the welts, thus, the expanding of the degree of pain.

That's why in the traditional british canning, there is a time gap for the person holding the cane to pause intentionally in between each stroke. He does that so that the sub can receive the full treatment of the echo part, in fact, the pause should be around 30 sec. When the sub fully feel the effects of that stroke, he then moved on to the next stoke.

[AmandasSpankee]

<drooling> I wish I could get caned, but Mistress has a thing about the sharp edges of some canes. I know we will do it sooner or later, I just wish it was sooner

Oh, well, maybe that can be my New Years Resolution.

[bdsmbill]

I am sure the formation of the welt may play some part, but the main reason for the echo effect has to do with how the nerves work. The sequence of events is like this: The cane hits, and the appropriate pain nerves fire, sending their message to the brain. The subject feels intense pain. Now, once nerves have fired, they cannot do so again until after a recovery period of a few seconds. When this period is up, since there is tissue damage at the site, they fire again. The echo may hurt more than the original, since nerves that have fired and recovered are hypersensitive for a brief time.

Now, there are several types of pain sensors, each reacting to a particular type of stimulus, shuch as pressure, heat, etc. Most methods of inflicting pain affect only one type. The reason electricity is so effective as a torture method is that it has the ability to fire all the pain nerves at once. Also, it does not damage them if used properly, so a few seconds later they are recovered and ready to fire again. If the shocks are timed exactly right they will hit just at the hypersensitive period.

[AmandasSpankee]

I had enough trouble getting Mistress to move from a flogger to a crop, and I'm still working on the cane. I don't think we'll being trying electroshock for a while - unless she gets angry enough to put my feet in water first!

[write4jetc]

Hey, I wouldn't do that - at least not on purpose ...

You're the clumsy one, not me. It wasn't my fault that you slipped into that pond in the park in Ottawa, while you were only wearing a real thin summer dress with no underwear - okay, the no undies was my fault, but not the slipping! You even scared the goldfish away :)

And it wasn't my fault that when I tied you to that big tree on your Dad's farm, that you choose a tree where birds like to flock. Even though you were gagged at the time, you could have let me know somehow ....

I dunno, the idea of a cane and electroshock are both getting more appealing all the time!

[Finding_Fantasy]

As I said in another post, canes really scare me and so does electro play now that you mention. Maybe being electrocuted has something to do with that? (I got zapped by a deep fryer cleaning machine and blew all the breakers. I had a headache for a weak and boy did my arm hurt)

I have heard too many horror stories about both. I like the crop though, Sylvie. I especially like floggers, coiled rope, and crops on my back. They seem to be the tools to use on that part of my body. :)

[LadyAmanda]

We have a crop that has ... almost like a flogger on the end of it. It's great for stand-up punishment, because the flogger part just curls around the body, and causes a little extra flare on the sides of its victim - delicious!

[GdRsDiamond]

<drooling> I wish I could get caned, but Mistress has a thing about the sharp edges of some canes. I know we will do it sooner or later, I just wish it was sooner

There is more than one way to cane a sub. It doesn't have to be bamboo, or other shredable woods, to be a caning. Our favorite canes come from home depo, the fiberglass sticks that are meant to open and close blinds. they hurt like the dickens, and they do not easily break. When they do finaly break, they snap cleanly in half without leaving any part of themselves in the subs bottom.
My favorite switches are harder to find and most be stolen when one is lucky enough to run across them. The little flags the utility company sticks in the group to mark thier lines are usually on metal stakes, and that wont do, becuase those rust. But occasionally you find them on the plastic stakes.. and they are viscouis. The thckest of them are smaller than your little finger and leave naster bruises even through jeans.. the thinnest ones, used on bare skin, will draw blood with every strike. I stare at every place the flags are out in hoping to find some to steal and ad to my collection! Yum!

GdRsDiamond

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by GdRsDiamond
Our favorite canes come from home depo, the fiberglass sticks that are meant to open and close blinds. they hurt like the dickens, and they do not easily break. When they do finaly break, they snap cleanly in half without leaving any part of themselves in the subs bottom.

*shudder* I'm deathly afraid of canes too Finding_Fantasy. I hate them! I'm sure to tell any perspective Domme exactly that. They tend to use them as a last resort to make me behave.

That said, I second all of the bit about blind actuation rods, especially the hurting like the dickens part! And they do break cleanly. I've had two broken across my bum. Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, OW! Forget the sam in me, I was THE BEST little girl for easily two weeks after each time!

[Jones, Nikka]

I was once severely caned with a piece of fiberglass tubing. I learned that this type of cane is only for those who like deep and I really mean deep pain!
Because of the thickness and flexibility of the rod the welts were not too bad (only about 10 days to disappear), but the internal bruising was paralizing. I could still feel the effects of a baker's dozen after three weeks
The added bonus was the wickedly shrill whistling sound that preceded each stroke (air escaping from the tube's interior at an awesome speed). To this day just the thought of that sound sends a shiver down my spine and an electric shock to my pussy

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka
To this day just the thought of that sound sends a shiver down my spine and an electric shock to my pussy

Oh! I can well imagine! Just reading your description of it did a little of the same for me just now. But were you really still sore after three weeks !?!?! Ow!

I tend to be the opposite. I've been caned, and rather roughly I might add, but I don't think I've ever felt it for more than two weeks... usually only for a week and a half. The bruises can stick around for up to a month though.

Gah! Have I mentioned that I hate canes? *shudder*

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by kittenfemme
Oh! I can well imagine! Just reading your description of it did a little of the same for me just now. But were you really still sore after three weeks !?!?! Ow!



Yes I know three weeks sounds exagerated, but that was the result of having a not so experienced dominant do the caning. She managed to get about nine or ten strokes (out of thirteen) pretty much in the same spot.

If I live to be a hundred years old I will never forget that pain, nor the fact that I was able to bear it without calling a safeword.

The wonderful (and terrible) thing about canes is that they are one of the best implements of chastisement to take a sub into the "total pain" zone

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka

The wonderful (and terrible) thing about canes is that they are one of the best implements of chastisement to take a sub into the "total pain" zone

I agree! Especially the terrible part. :D

[MrStefens]

Originally posted by AmandasSpankee
<drooling> I wish I could get caned, but Mistress has a thing about the sharp edges of some canes. I know we will do it sooner or later, I just wish it was sooner

Oh, well, maybe that can be my New Years Resolution.

Amandaspankee,
Should it be of any help, there are all different types of canes. Some are constructed with the small ridges where the bamboo has come together in its growth left when that are processed. However, canes can be purchased that have been sanded to smooth all the rough ridges away. The smaller and more whippy canes have less of these edges and may be more to your liking. I prefer these as they have much less chance of breaking the skin but leave beautiful narrow raised red welts and produce a sting that will make you want to jump out of your skin.

[woodsman'sgame]

I have never been caned. It just seems too painful. I can take pain, but .....
How does it compare to a belt, or a thin stranded whip, or a hard spanking by a very strong man, things I'm more familiar with?
All three of these can be quite painful, but all in different ways.

[-angelstar-]

what's the difference in the level of pain when using a belt as compared to bare hands?

[woodsman'sgame]

The pain from the belt is in one narrow strip, and it doesn't carry as much sting to it. The pain is acute, but because of its limited area, I seem to be able to take it better than the hand, which covers a much larger area and has more sting to accompany it.

I'm sure that he holds back a lot more on the belt too, which may explain why it hurts less. The problem with the belt, of course, is that it can cut and has the potential to scar, also it can bruise.
Recovery period is much longer for the belt too.

Of all three, I dread the hand the most, but it's the most often used because it's the safest and the most handy. hehe

And I don't even have the little bit of satisfaction of knowing that it hurts his hand too. His hands are very rough from his work and it doesn't hurt him to spank me.

I'm talking about a very strong man here, so it's not an average spanking. Woodsman was a linebacker in college.

[slavelucy]

i agree with you woodsman'sgame, the belt hurts lesss than the hand (but yes, is capable of more damage). i sometimes wonder tho if a Dom is less ferocious with the belt than with His hand, conscious somehow of the fact it could potentially cause more bruising/welts etc and because to Him the hand 'seems' less servere....whereas in actual fact it hurts more! Does that make any sense?

sl

[-angelstar-]

hmm.

interesting :p the replies come as a surprise actually. i always pick the hand over a belt or any other thing because i have this mentality that the hand hurts less :p

so maybe i'm wrong. maybe the next time i'll pick the alternative and give it a try :p

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by -angelstar-
hmm.

because i have this mentality that the hand hurts less :p


yeah, i do know what you mean, i think pyschologically (or something) the hand is less sort of severe and a bit more....erm, playful but i just find that it really really hurts! Still, i would rather have hand than the crop......;)

sl

[woodsman'sgame]

The hand brings your master in direct contact with you. That is the only reason I would prefer it. It is his/her touch not the touch of a thing. But the pain is greater.
I haven't had a crop used on me, but I can't imagine it would hurt more than a leather belt?

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by woodsman'sgame

I haven't had a crop used on me, but I can't imagine it would hurt more than a leather belt?

Hi Woodsmans - jesus, yes, it hurts more than a leather belt - i have always found it to be a very sharp pain which then burns a bit - particularly bad when hit with it in the same place a few times....i also find that a difference is that the crop causes some erm interesting marks on the skin far far quicker than the belt does.

i don't know whether everybody would necessarily concur with this tho, just my own personal views/experience of course. :)

sl

[woodsman'sgame]

hmm
Maybe it's time to do a little research, but not real sure I want to
be the subject.

Any volunteers? ;)

[e.e. norcod]

A number of you are in interesting (and complex) relationships. Yes most of us men, especially those of us that are rather large and strong have interesting internal conflicts about hitting women. I can assure you from personal experience that a vigorously applied belt can cause a lot, lot more damage than a hand spanking. Obviously, your masters refrain from hitting you with full force with a belt although they are less inhibited about the rigor with which they hand spank. In that they are probably like me. I dislike inflicting buises and I have strong internal inhibitions about hitting a woman forcefully. I suspect that many of the same mechanisms that operate in my mind operate in the minds of your masters.

I have read the correspondence in this thread with bemused interest. This is because much of my professional career has involved studying damage to tissue and inflammation with the last decade and the half focusing on the skin. The response of the different structures in the skin to physical injury is exceedingly complex. It involves direct response of several types of nerves, direct responses of inflammatory cells, responses of inflammatory cells stimulated by nerves, direct responses of blood vessels and indirect responses of blood vessels stimulated by nerves and inflammatory cells. I keep threatening to write an essay on bruises for Jinn's Academy section and one of these days I will get around to it.

By the way, the deep pain persisting for a week or more was undoubtedly due to damage to the underlying muscle, possibly associated with some minor bleeding into the muscle (deep bruising). That is a sign that the caning was much too severe. Bruising muscle is a big no no in my book. One of the reasons I prefer the switch to the cane.

Also a botanical note. Disciplinary canes are invariably made from ratan. Although ratan is a member of the bamboo family, almost all species of bamboo are highly unsuitable for canes. In general most bamboos when subjected to lateral stress shatter longitudinally. Continuing to strike someone with a shattered bamboo cane will cause severe cuts. T. E. Lawrence aka Lawrence of Arabia was injured in this way while held captive by the Turks in 1917 and carried the scars with him until his death in the late 1930's. This is why ratan, with it unusual flexibility and resistance to shattering is the only species of bamboo suitable for canes.

[woodsman'sgame]

Thank you for the information e.e. norcord. I'm waiting for the info on bruising, by the way. =)
[
I can assure you from personal experience that a vigorously applied belt can cause a lot, lot more damage than a hand spanking.
Yes, I agree, its only because Woodsman holds back more on the belt, whip or other instruments that they end up hurting less.
[
Obviously, your masters refrain from hitting you with full force with a belt although they are less inhibited about the rigor with which they hand spank. In that they are probably like me. I dislike inflicting buises and I have strong internal inhibitions about hitting a woman forcefully. I suspect that many of the same mechanisms that operate in my mind operate in the minds of your masters.
And, yes, he has problems with hitting a woman, even though it turns him on. I'm aware that this part of our relationship is more difficult for him to deal with than for me.
Which brings me to a question I have had but was a little hesitant to voice. I'm new to this site as a member although I lurked for quite a while, but I thought there would be a little more discussion about the psychological problems with BDSM that some might experience. Perhaps they were dealt with earlier, or perhaps they are taboo, or perhaps most don't have them?

I read the threads sometimes and get the feeling that this lifestyle is absolutely no problem for most on this site. It makes me wonder. Maybe it's my age, coming from an era when sex was a taboo subject. (Yes, I know the "sexual revolution" was in the 60's but it never really hit rural America where I live until I was much older)

And sorry about going off the thread, but it was my natural train of thought

[e.e. norcod]

Feelings and emotions are difficult subjects for people to deal with. With time and age and insight you begin to realize that just because you have certain feelings that are perhaps not mainline it doesn't mean that you are crazy. Furthermore, even though we have certain fantasies, it doesn't mean that we always play them out in real life. An active fantasy life is probably a good thing. Working these things out in play (or in prose) probably contributes in an important way to good mental health.

[Curtis]

Has anyone tried willow withies? I mean branches, of course. Very thin (unless you use several in a bundle) and whippy. They CAN cut, but probably not, especially if care is used, or if used in a bundle, but they can FEEL like they're cutting you. It's a kind of sharp pain, but doesn't go deep and (shouldn't) keep hurting beyond a few days. Not much bruising, but they can welt easily. Other branches can have a similar effect, but tend to dry out quickly (and snap).

[kittenfemme]

Ooooh... a wonderful reminder Curtis. Thank you. I've two willows near my apartment building. I'll have to keep that in mind when one of my subs gets a smart mouth. :D Though I really hope my Mistress doesn't read that or come up with the same idea!

As for bruising by cane, woodsman'sgame, it can be horrible to turn and see your bum, thighs, calves, feet, and breasts in a mirror. Keep in mind that I have very fair skin and bruise easily, but the thin, deep bruises I've had from canes usually start as thin, dark black stripes that continue to hurt for days after... sometimes up to two weeks. Even if someone breaks my skin with a cane that tends to be the result.

Cane bruises on me begin to fade after a about a week. They turn blue or purple and eventually a sickly green or yellow. Usually the effected area has stopped throbbing every time I sit or that the skin rubs against my clothing by that point. It seems like forever before the bruises go away completely, though it's usually only ten to sixteen days.

[e.e. norcod]

Aha! Thinking like a true citizen of the New World, use what is available and adapt it to your use. Any resilient switch is less likely to bruise than a rattan cane provided it is thin enough.

The first trick to to balance the velocity with which the switch is wielded with the length of the switch and the thinness of the switch for a given material. This is usually determined empirically in about 45 seconds.

Be sure to remove bumps and sharp points from the switch as these are what really cuts. Yes, the submissive, the first time they are being disciplined generally reports feeling the pain of being cut to ribbons. However, aside from spectacular welting, cuts are rare (if poperly done) and the submissive is spared the bruises of the cane.

I would be interested in hearing from submissives that have been chastised with the switch. What are their experiences, thoughts and emotions?

[e.e. norcod]

To Kittenfemme

I really think that such a degree of bruising is unacceptable. This indicates that bleeding is occurring in the subcutaneous tissues. Such a caning is not simply inflicting pain, it is causing real physical damage. Damage to this extent can cause fever and in some case difficulty in breathing. There are better ways of chastisement, refer to my note above. Try the switch or another implement such as a strap but it is wrong to inflict severe prolonged damage.

What we write in our fiction is fiction. It is designed to satisfy our own fantasies and hopefully to give enjoyment to others. It is the nature of kink that some things that others find to be a turn off (pain, loss of control) are a turn on to some of us. However, in my opinion, inflicting bodily injury (bruises that last several weeks), is not part of bdsm. Let's keep that reserved for our fiction.

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by e.e. norcod However, in my opinion, inflicting bodily injury (bruises that last several weeks), is not part of bdsm. Let's keep that reserved for our fiction. [/B]

I respectfully disagree. Your limits are not my limits. While a severe instrument, I think canes are on the mild end of things when compared to a knife, scalpel, or singletail.

I have contracts and long negotiations with Dommes just so that they know exactly how far they can go. In such an environment, I think there can be room for anything. I've cut, been cut, bitten through skin, been bitten, and even been stung by a scorpion during one scene. Each was something I agreed to beforehand for reasons contained in my own desires. As such, I think bdsm is the perfect, if perhaps not the only, environment where things of a damaging nature can occur and not cause psychological torment... at least not psychological torment that isn't intended (please pardon the x2 negative).

As for better chastisements, I think that's best left between the Dominant and their submissive. What is effective for one pair or group may not be for another. This post is case in point.

[e.e. norcod]

In that respect you are right and I am showing myself to be an old fuddy-duddy.

Ultimately BDSM is about control rather than pain or even tissue damage. And you are right in that the metes and bounds of the scope of BDSM are the battleground for control between Domme and sub. You are the one ultimately in control.

On the other hand thirty years ago I was fuddy-duddying about safesex. I got ignored. Almost all of those who ignored me are dead. I take no satisfaction in this. I remember them. Many of them I still mourn for they were excellent friends.

All of the above being said, can I recommend to your Domme that you deserve three dozen of the best? And the photos of the result to be posted to the Personal Photography thread with updates in color every three days to show the evolution of the bruises!

Corrected but still unrepentant.

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by e.e. norcod
All of the above being said, can I recommend to your Domme that you deserve three dozen of the best? And the photos of the result to be posted to the Personal Photography thread with updates in color every three days to show the evolution of the bruises!

Eeep! Three dozen! Do you have any idea what you're saying!?!? *grovel* I'll be good! :D

Though you've a wonderful idea. The next time I'm caned or cane one of my submissives I'll try to keep this forum in mind.

[e.e. norcod]

That you should even consider my extreme and obstreporous proposal is kindly appreciated. An out of hand rejection would have been perfectly within your power.

I am sure that we all look forward to the fruits of your research worked out on the buttocks and thighs of your submissive young ladies published on this site.

[slavelucy]

Okay - i hope no one minds if i give this thread a bump :bump:

The reason for doing so is because i was wondering about canes/caning and wondered if anyone would have anything further to share/say on the issue, especially with there being so many new folks around.

What sort of things was i interested in knowing? Hmmm, not sure really, it's just something myself and WW were interested in looking into but know very little about, so i'd be interested in hearing about people's experiences with it, safety aspects, where one would actually buy one (i.e. from some specialist shop or just from a garden centre?!)...indeed, anything anyone wants to say on the subject.

Cheers

sl

[e.b.]

Hiya sl,

Wow...I read this thread a few days ago and didn't have time to post as school's been absolutely crazy. I'm back now though and surprised to see no one's thrown their two cents in here. Anyway, I am by no means an expert on canes, but I do enjoy them so hopefully some of this may be helpful for you and WW, as well as any other interested readers.

First, my experience has been quite positive...I've only been caned twice, both times by an experienced dom, and both times have left me craving more. The typical paired track marks from the cane were left on my ass, and it hurt like hell during the caning, but there was no deep tissue damage...the pain when sitting was gone within 24 hours and the marks made their pretty progression through the colors of bruising and were gone in a week or two. So...they can still be lovely instruments of torture without any more concern about tissue damage than plenty of other cp tools.

A few things though...my wrists and ankles were bound with me spread face down over a spanking bench both times...which I'd say is a good plan. If you want the whole schoolgirl bending over the desk and counting and all, go for it...but I was glad to be able to soak up the pain without having to hold myself up too. ;) Take your time between strokes, as the actual impact hurts, but what hurts more are the after-effects as the skin decompresses. So a minute at least between strokes is wise. Having the dom practice his aim first on a pillow or something if he's new to caning is essential to get a feel for speed and force. Even better would be to learn from someone who's already proficient with a cane.

As far as types, I've only experienced bamboo and rattan. Both were lovely and painful, but if you really want to go all out, fiberglass canes are apparently quite the experience for a pain slut. And of course, there's always a bundle of birch branches that does nicely for a switching. Let me tell you, being sent to go fetch the branches and prepare them (you have to sand the rough edges and all) for your own switching does wonders if you're into humiliation. :)

So...where to get them...I'd ask whomever you find to help show you the basics where he/she gets his/hers. Sometimes home improvement stores have something...furniture makers may also. There are also some good sites o/l that will help you find what's best for you. I've used one site run by a couple in New York that does a good job...I don't know if there are easier places for you guys that would be in the UK, but send me a pm if you'd like the web addy for the NY site.

Also, Curtis, kittenfemme, Nikka (all of whom I miss btw :( ), and e.e. norcod all make good suggestions above.

Good luck, be careful, and have fun!

eb

[slavelucy]

Wow, that's GREAT, just what i wanted, thanks so much e.b. :) :) *gives great big huggles*. i'll be sure to let ya know how it goes if and when we try it. Yikes.

lucy x

[maratsade]

I'm a latecomer(?) I realise. But my ha'porth may be worthwhile none the less.

We're all different, thank the Gods. I have a very sensitive skin - not to mention my soul! Quite a relaxed cut can produce very satisfactory results, both for me and my domme -- a sharp pain in my buttocks, which then forks through my limbs to my fingers and toes. She knows me now, and how to space the strokes, so that each builds on the previous one, gradually raising the level of torment. We have a whipping bench, and I'm strapped down very firmly, so that I can only move my head. In addition to the cumulative effect, the spaces also provide room for my fear to grow, and for her to enjoy this. We have several mirrors, so that I can see her petting the end of the cane between strokes and smiling, as she lays it on my buttocks and takes aim for the next cut.

Usually I am not gagged. But she expects me to show fortitude. Normally shaking my head to-and-fro is a permissible expression of travail, as is a moderate sound through clenched teeth. And she doesn't mind my fingers clenching the frame as I wait for the next one. Anything less disciplined than this brings penalties.

Last time, after I had had about 18, and was at the end of my tether, she said that she wanted to give me six more. Before I could stop myself I replied that I wasn't sure that I could bear it. Whereupon she told me that my protest had made her wish even stronger, and that I should prepare myself for 12. She offered me a choice (she's all heart) between turning up the CD player or a gag, explaining that she was thinking about the neighbours.
I said that perhaps 'facing the music' might be the appropriate choice. She enjoyed this, but also thought it a bit sassy, and decided to gag me as well.

So I had 12 more, very slowly, delivered to the accompaniment of Samuel Barber's Adagio.

By the end the pain was inhabiting every nook and cranny of my body, and my soul was cringing in helpless fear. But two days later there wasn't a mark on me - though there was a desire for revenge.

That's at one end. At the other, it is really necessary to practice with a cane, which is hard to control. My domme is very good and very accurate, placing the cuts just where she wants them. I'm more erratic, even with practice - perhaps because she likes to be hit harder. So yes, when I'm on top, I favour a lovely little synthetic stinger, which she says has her wanting to climb out of the window. It's much more appropriate than a cane for the tender insides her thighs and her breasts, where really light flicks in a steady rhythm can build to something pretty remarkable.

Both of us find the esperience wonderful in itself, and a terrific preparation for sex.

[ProjectEuropa]

My domme is very good and very accurate, placing the cuts just where she wants them. I'm more erratic, even with practice - perhaps because she likes to be hit harder.

I'll vouch for the need for accuracy and this is a memory from school over 35 years ago. I had six strokes off the head of middle school who only had one eye and was very inaccurate. Apart from a couple of strokes whipping my upper thighs, one stroke curled between my legs and whipped my balls. Even with trousers on I was curled up in agony. I'm sure women can suffer too from such inaccuracy. Apart from my regular canings I got at school I have never had the urge to receive since. Though I don't have any guilt about giving. I bought several weapons from the London and Birmingham Fetish Fairs. The vendor at the London Fair was able to give me a run down on the whole science of spanking and caning. I haven't noticed him for a few months but then I haven't been looking.

[slavelucy]

By the end the pain was inhabiting every nook and cranny of my body, and my soul was cringing in helpless fear

:eek:

*quivers in fear*

Hiya maratsade,

Thanks so much for that contribution, to read real experiences of caning is really helpful and is exactly the sort of thing i was looking for, especially from both sides of the scene, so thank you for taking the time to write it. i'm extremely dubious that i'd be able to take it without screaming the house down though, you must be made of MUCH stronger stuff than me! LOL :D

Thanks to you also, ProjectEuropa, again, hearing pratical experience of how poor or inaccurate use of the cane can cause injury is very useful. i'm also interested in what you said about Fetish fairs in the UK, i've never been to one, but they sound kinda cool, and i'm guessing the people you buy things off have some knowledge of the items and may even offer a word of advise on them.

sl

[maratsade]

Quote from slavelucy

Thanks so much for that contribution, to read real experiences of caning is really helpful and is exactly the sort of thing i was looking for, especially from both sides of the scene, so thank you for taking the time to write it. i'm extremely dubious that i'd be able to take it without screaming the house down though, you must be made of MUCH stronger stuff than me! LOL

It's nice to be appreciated. Thanks. But I'm not made of strong stuff, and definitely not stronger stuff. I have a low pain threshold, and am sensitive. But you can work things out between you. My domme doesn't want to reduce me to a bloody mess, just to get reactions from me that tell her that she's getting to me, whether it's with pain or pleasure. And I'm the same. At the start either of you may find that the pain is getting too much, and becoming a total turn-off. So you stop. And learn. My pleasures are power, suspense, fear, tension, and a feeling of mercilessness - whether I'm top or bottom. You need to develop a lot of trust, and at the same time be able to catch the other out with a surprise.

[slavelucy]

B]It's nice to be appreciated. Thanks. But I'm not made of strong stuff, and definitely not stronger stuff. I have a low pain threshold, and am sensitive.

*smiles* Yeah, i didn't mean to imply that you were impervious to pain or anything....and i understand what you mean about your Domme wanting reactions from you, i'm just not sure i have the fortitude to not scream or make an awful lot of noise and general fuss...not because i think it should stop, but because it damn well hurts!


You need to develop a lot of trust

We already have a lot of trust, i couldn't even contemplate doing DS (especially involving a moderate amount of S&M) with anyone i didn't trust...but, and this is my point, all the trust in the world won't enable me to not make noise for very long. This is where the 'he' in question will turn up and remind me that i don't make noise when he asks me not to, which i don't..but i doubt i could sustain that for 20 strokes of a cane.


My pleasures are power, suspense, fear, tension, and a feeling of mercilessness - whether I'm top or bottom.

Mmmm, you put that really well. :D Get rid of power and add a smattering of unfairness and that pretty much would sum up my pleasures as well.

sl

[maratsade]

From slavelucy
I'm just not sure i have the fortitude to not scream or make an awful lot of noise and general fuss...not because i think it should stop, but because it damn well hurts!

If you feel like screaming, go for it! So long as you don't frighten the horses. But being disciplined, little by little, not to scream, holds a delicate pleasure too.

From slavelucy
We already have a lot of trust, i couldn't even contemplate doing DS (especially involving a moderate amount of S&M) with anyone i didn't trust

Fair enough. But remember the wise words of Verdi: "To trust is good.....Not to trust is better." One consolation about being a switch - your partner has to think about retribution, and that gives trust a little bit of help.

From slavelucy
Get rid of power and add a smattering of unfairness and that pretty much would sum up my pleasures as well.

Hmm! Surely unfairness won't work unless there is power behind it. I don't necessarily mean manacles and leg irons.......but what about love, for instance.

[slavelucy]

If you feel like screaming, go for it!

Ta! :D


But being disciplined, little by little, not to scream, holds a delicate pleasure too.

Oh yeah, i 100% agree, which is why i said when he asks me to be quiet whilst he does something or for a specific thing, i make every effort to do so and usually succeed...but whether i could be quiet for numerous strokes of the cane, i literally don't know.



Fair enough. But remember the wise words of Verdi: "To trust is good.....Not to trust is better." One consolation about being a switch - your partner has to think about retribution, and that gives trust a little bit of help.

Oooh, yikes, i don't agree with that! Probably because i don't switch. Fear of retribution isn't trust. i don't trust my Dom because he knows we'll switch in the next scene and i could whip shit out of him, i trust him because i trust him, full stop. Although perhaps you meant that a bit tongue in cheek. *grins*



Hmm! Surely unfairness won't work unless there is power behind it. I don't necessarily mean manacles and leg irons.......but what about love, for instance.

Eh? *confused* What about love? Crossed wires here, i think, when i said remove power, i meant MINE, not power exchange from the whole situation. You're right, unfairness wouldn't work without an imbalance of power, but the list was about my pleasures and not his. :D

sl

[maratsade]

Quote from slave lucy
but whether i could be quiet for numerous strokes of the cane, i literally don't know.

Well, there's only one way to find out, I guess.

Quote from slave lucy
Oooh, yikes, i don't agree with that! Probably because i don't switch. Fear of retribution isn't trust. i don't trust my Dom because he knows we'll switch in the next scene and i could whip shit out of him, i trust him because i trust him, full stop. Although perhaps you meant that a bit tongue in cheek. *grins*

You idealistic thing you! But, yes, a cheek is one place to put a tongue, I suppose. And if we can't have a laugh - or anyway a smile - what's it all about.

There is a serious point, though. Trust and mistrust go together. There is an excellent piece by James Hillman somewhere on the subject. I don't feel that trust is really alive without mistrust, just as love isn't really alive without hate. And Verdi did become a millionaire.

Quote from slave lucy
Eh? *confused* What about love? Crossed wires here, i think, when i said remove power, i meant MINE, not power exchange from the whole situation. You're right, unfairness wouldn't work without an imbalance of power, but the list was about my pleasures and not his.

Gottme! I was being both dull and careless. I have skipped some of the threads, so I am not as au fait with your desires as I should be. :-(
Is it all over between us? I shall try to pay better attention in future. In what sort of ways are you unfair to your partner.

I think Andromeda has had very good value for her original enquiry -- though I suspect that she has moved on long ago.

As for canes. Do you need to jump in the deep end? Why not start with a flogger? That is if you want a taste of submitting to delicious punishment.

[slavelucy]

And if we can't have a laugh - or anyway a smile - what's it all about.

Absolutely agreed. :D


There is a serious point, though. Trust and mistrust go together. There is an excellent piece by James Hillman somewhere on the subject. I don't feel that trust is really alive without mistrust, just as love isn't really alive without hate.

Intriguing. When i did my degree, and was studying in the realm of morality and ethics (and less so in the area of Philosophy of Religion), we considered the notion that one can't know or do 'good' without knowing or having the option to do bad, so i think i understand where you're coming from. Trust is possibly the same, to understand how trust 'feels', perhaps one has to know the antithesis to it, but i don't believe one can experience mistrust whilst experiencing trust with any given person, that's a complete oxymoron.




Gottme! I was being both dull and careless. I have skipped some of the threads, so I am not as au fait with your desires as I should be. :-( Is it all over between us?

LOL! You're funny. :) i don't expect ya to be 'au fait with all my desires', i'm more than happy to state them..again and again and again... ;)



In what sort of ways are you unfair to your partner.

i'm not, he's unfair to me, on occasion. Only in a Ds, playful sense...you know what i mean, i'm sure...;)


As for canes. Do you need to jump in the deep end? Why not start with a flogger? That is if you want a taste of submitting to delicious punishment.

Um..you really don't read threads huh?! LOL i have had many a taste of 'submitting to punishment', i'm not, like, just starting out or anything, rather have no experience with the cane. Oh, and i agree, floggers are mmmmm..only when on the receiving end.

sl

[maratsade]

Quote from slavelucy
Trust is possibly the same, to understand how trust 'feels', perhaps one has to know the antithesis to it, but i don't believe one can experience mistrust whilst experiencing trust with any given person, that's a complete oxymoron.

For you an oxymoron (=something particularly stupid). For me a profound truth, as in paradox. But you are outing the Jungian in me. He thought that the psyche needs balance for health - that it was always seeking it. Which meant that whatever the conscious attitude, the opposite is always constellated in the unconscious. So long as we know this, we will not fall into the trap of one-sidedness. Nor will we be caught out in what seems like hypocrisy, or madness.

Winnicott believed that Jung was a deeply split personality, hence his preoccupation with all this. Possibly. If so, long live Jung's split, say I, because it brought him to a great truth.

"Come down from the pulpit," the crowd roars. "Who are you to start preaching at us?"

Quote from slavelucy
Um..you really don't read threads huh?!

Sorry! Please don't tell my domina on me! She hates inattentiveness!

maratsade - my friends call me Jean-Paul Donatien Alphonse Francois

[slavelucy]

For you an oxymoron (=something particularly stupid). For me a profound truth, as in paradox.
Oxymoron doesn't mean profoundly stupid, it means a combination of contradictory or incongruous words or something (as a concept) that is made up of contradictory or incongruous elements...as in, to implicitly trust someone whilst in a state of mistrust with the same person.

:)

sl

[maratsade]

essell! Reckless or what?! You engage in chat about caning. You present your naked bum at just the right height. And then you give a lecture in egg-sucking.

Not surprisingly my fingers twitch, and my hand reaches for the slender, round rattan.

Better shut the windows. And lets hope the neighbours know where to look for their ear plugs.

And, what's so good is that I've no need to worry about retribution, because we know that's something you don't go in for.

Terrific! I'm looking forward to this!

As for oxymoron, the etymology is pointedly (oxy), or sharply foolish (moros), which itself is an oxymoron. So we're both right.

You can get up now. After kissing the rod.

Marquis

[bdsmbill]

[QUOTE=maratsade]essell!

As for oxymoron, the etymology is pointedly (oxy), or sharply foolish (moros), which itself is an oxymoron. So we're both right.

Well, you should have stayed away from etymology. As a professional writer, that's my turf. Etymology is the study of word origins, not what they mean now. The fact is, what a word ment in Greek 1000 years ago has no place in a debate about its current definition.

Yes, Oxy (from the Greek oxus) means sharp (in taste or smell), pungent, or acid, as in Oxygen, and Moron (from the Greek moros) means foolish or stupid. That does not mean that the word now means sharply stupid.

Currently, the word is used to refer to a phrase that is self-contradictory.

Some common examples are "jumbo shrimp," "known secret," "live television," "modern history," and "peaceful conflict." Liberals think the phrase "military intelligence" qualifies, while conservatives counter with "tolerant liberal" as an example of an oxymoron.

Some other nice ones are "innocent seduction," "unbiased opinion," "we're alone," "act natural," and "targeted spam." "Paid volunteer" and "socialist worker" are another pair of common examples. If you don't like Microsoft, you may think "windows security" qualifies. Too bad. Get over it. Gates is rich, Windows won, and being jealous won't help.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of caning as it relates to the study of philosophy. I am always interested in these discussions, as they seem to take something simple and try to make it complex. Sadists inflict pain because it turns them on to do so, and masochists let them because it turns them on to feel the pain. Lucky folks like me can get off on either.

If you tire of this debate and want to try something different, I offer these possible subjects.

1. It's bad luck to be superstitious.

2. I'm not paranoid, even though everyone is always saying I am behind my back.

3. If you are 18 and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain.

4. The only worthwhile meaning of "gun control" is the ability to hit your target.

5. It ain't what you don't know that hurts you. It's what you do know that's wrong.

Thanks,

BDSMBill

[slavelucy]

essell! Reckless or what?! You engage in chat about caning. You present your naked bum at just the right height. And then you give a lecture in egg-sucking.

Not surprisingly my fingers twitch, and my hand reaches for the slender, round rattan.

Better shut the windows. And lets hope the neighbours know where to look for their ear plugs.

And, what's so good is that I've no need to worry about retribution, because we know that's something you don't go in for.

Terrific! I'm looking forward to this!

As for oxymoron, the etymology is pointedly (oxy), or sharply foolish (moros), which itself is an oxymoron. So we're both right.

You can get up now. After kissing the rod.

Marquis

Er....have you been drinking?!

Caned by you??! Pfffft, not on your life! :p

i've pretty much lost the plot now, so i'll hopefully tie up this odd exchange with this: i trust my dominant, i have some experience of Ds and taking pain, i don't switch, i don't understand switching (nothing against it, just don't 'get' it), trusting someone whilst mistrusting them is an oxymoron when using the word in modern terms.

Sheesh, after the pain of fathoming this lot out, the cane will be a walk in the park! :D ;)

sl

[Donatien]

i don't switch, i don't understand switching (nothing against it, just don't 'get' it),
sl

Could it be that algolagnics, might find it easier to switch than, than say in those relationships where the d/s element is strong, although even there, from reading a number of posts,it would appear that most switchers do so in response to the changing power balance in different relationships; I am only quessing, so I may be way off beam.

[bdsmbill]

Could it be that algolagnics, might find it easier to switch than, than say in those relationships where the d/s element is strong.

Come on, why use an obscure word like "algolagnics" instead of the more common sado/masochist? Do you make a distinction between them? Anyway, I think those in 24/7 situations would be much less likely to switch than those who live vanilla much of the time and play now and then. "OK, let's play this weekend. Whose turn is it to be top?"

BDSMBill

[Ranai]

Come on, why use an obscure word like "algolagnics" instead of the more common sado/masochist? Personally I like learning new words. I looked this one up at www.onelook.com (http://www.onelook.com)
Actually I come to this site to have fun and learn new stuff.

[Donatien]

[QUOTE=bdsmbill]Come on, why use an obscure word like "algolagnics" instead of the more common sado/masochist? Do you make a distinction between them? Anyway, I think those in 24/7 situations would be much less likely to switch than those who live vanilla much of the time and play now and then. "OK, let's play this weekend. Whose turn is it to be top?"[ QUOTE]



I agree. I used the term " painlovers" rather than sado/masochist with the very distinction that you have described in mind. thanks for making my point clearer than I did . On reflection though; should we as a community allow such a precise descriptive term as 'ALGOLAGNIA' to become more obscure than say 'OXYMORON' ? Surely we need to preserve it if only for fine descriminatory purposes such as I was attempting !

Donatien

[maratsade]

[QUOTE=slavelucy]Er....have you been drinking?!

Er.....no. But reasonable question.

[QUOTE=slavelucy]Caned by you??! Pfffft, not on your life! :p

I love it when you come over all scornful

[QUOTE=slavelucy]i've pretty much lost the plot now, so i'll hopefully tie up this odd exchange with this: i trust my dominant, i have some experience of Ds and taking pain, i don't switch, i don't understand switching (nothing against it, just don't 'get' it), trusting someone whilst mistrusting them is an oxymoron when using the word in modern terms

Often I only discover where the boundary is by crossing it. So I do trespass at times, and I can see that I have on this occasion. Sorry! My domme will have a word or two to say about it.

As to oxymoron, I surrender, and retire to my lair

[QUOTE=slavelucy]Sheesh, after the pain of fathoming this lot out, the cane will be a walk in the park! :D ;)

Glad to have brought a little happiness

Le Marquis