safeword fail?

[ksst]

I hadn't used my safeword before, although we agreed to have one because it seemed like a good idea, everyone said it was a good idea. Then last night I actually did need it but I couldn't say it, I couldn't even think of it. I was too far out/ down/under, where ever it was, and all I could mumble was "help, help, help" and he realized I was serious and quickly released me.

Has anyone else had this trouble?

[lucy]

No, when I still had one I remembered it that one time I needed it. But I wasn't far out/down/under at all. I could imagine being gone too far to be able to use it, though. Which is one of the reasons we don't have one anymore.

[Ozme52]

Make it easier. Make it a natural word. "Help" is good if you don't create a scene where crying for help is part of it. I use "mercy" for that reason and it keeps us "in the scene" should it be a minor issue, question, or just an adjustment that's needed... but if you have trouble remembering, use something very very easy to remember. For that reason, "red" is good... but whatever you choose, do some fire drills.

I often ask my sub if she remembers her safe word and make her tell it to me mid-scene... or as part of her training.

[denuseri]

Yep and Ive seen it happen to others too, and seen inexperienced doms hurt people because they thought it was ok to keep doing whatever because the submissive (who in no way shape or form should be expected to be cognoscente in certain circumstances especially if a female) was incapable of or hadnt or wouldnt use it.

Which is why it should at best be one tool of many that a responsible dominant can institute but never be used as a crutch to relive said dominant of the ultimate responsibility for saftey during any bdsm activity.

[ksst]

Fire drills- I never thought of that- will have to give it a try. One thing I saw someone else do was a domme who demanded a color from the bottom at regular intervals. It was always green, but at least she knew where he was. I don't know that I'd like that though, it might ruin the mood.
Maybe we should just change it to help. It's not something I would say if I didn't mean it.

I have to say, in addition to being a little scary, it was amazingly hot. Amazingly.

[Kore]

In the heat of many moments, many things can go wrong, like a chain of events that both don't seem to be aware of. One or both can be lost in the "zone" and that has its dangers. Good idea on repeating, knowing, understanding a word but a Sir that knows, will catch on to the event quite quickly. He certainly did!

There has to be an exit plan and most times you can look at those circumstances as being an accident, "in the zone". There's nothing wrong with pushing a few buttons but just expressing your view can also be a warning, just in case.

[ksst]

"There's nothing wrong with pushing a few buttons but just expressing your view can also be a warning, just in case. "

I'm not sure I understand this last part.

One thing I have not managed to tell him, and don't know if I should, is that I would do the whole thing over, exactly the same, if I had the chance, since I know it turned out all right. Of course, the saying goes "you can't step in the same stream twice" so perhaps it's better not to try repeat things exactly, especially ones with so many things coming together by happenstance. Anyway, he said he'd make sure to do the rope differently next time.

[Ozme52]

Go ahead... but make it a suggestion that though it scared you, you want to go there again... and be pushed.

That way he also knows you're not mad or upset with him, not for taking you there, not for how it turned out, and especially not if he were to take you there again. Tell him how hot it was for you.

Doms appreciate feedback too.

[ksst]

How do I know if I was really in danger or just thought I was? (Choking/asphyxia)

[lucy]

Well, I think if it is about asphixiation/breath/choking play, you just want to be on the safe side. Taking chances with that kind of play just seems to be fatally (sic!) stupid.
But then again, I don't know for sure since breath play isn't on our menu.

[ksst]

Well I asked him and got my answer. Not just no, but hell no. We're coming up with safer alternatives that should be fun.

[skittish doe]

I am very glad to know that. Have fun!

[denuseri]

Hope it all goes well for you both ksst! ...keep up the open and honest communication both ways!

His reticence for engaging in breath play may stem from simple inexperience with whats safe or not with it or could even come from a fear on his part as well, like a fear of hurting you, or loosing control etc and inadvertently bringing harm.

Outside of online and written resources a good place to find someone who has real life experience with this kind of play would be a fetish convention, a public access club/dungeon or local community group/munch venue.

http://tribes.tribe.net/bdsmtipstechniques/thread/0cddae2e-cfa6-43ff-a3ab-2b2fa4fe5978 is a good place to see some of the pros and cons discussed by others and find extra resources.

I personally like a little breath play, not just choking (shivers at the thought of a pair of strong hands wrapping around my throat...obviously my fav form of it) but also the kind involving rope harnesses and corsets.

It can imho be safely delved into and enjoyed if one is careful and knowledgeable of the dangers etc.

[ksst]

Thank you! I'll share that. I'm not sure what the over all conclusion was, some seemed to think it was way too dangerous to do anything like that and others thought, well, if you're into it you're going to do it anyway, so here's some slightly less dangerous ways. I do know he's read up on it a bunch (and he's in a medical profession) and he's worried I'll die. I'm not that into it that I want to risk death.

[Red-15]

If you're playing with breath, or working in a situation where verbal communication might be compromised, you can use a "mechanical safe word." "Borrow," or otherwise acquire a kid's bouncy-ball-- one of those super balls, preferably a glow-in-the-dark or brightly colored one, and hold it in your hand. If at some point you start to feel like you need to pause, get out of scene, need help, whatever, let go of the ball. It will bounce, be visible and make noise. Your top, who will know about this, can be attentive to that cue and act accordingly.

Hope this helps.

Don

[ksst]

Yes, thank you. I'll tell him about that too.

[scarlet_85]

My sae word is Kashmir. A referrence to the 8 minutes and 32 seconds of musical fusion by Led Zeppelin. The song speaks of trying new things, fnding yourself, and listening to others. When we were in the begginning of our relationship,I had used the word a few times. Once we found familiararity, the word never gets used. My Dom has learned my body language. He is completely in tune with what I am putting off. I feel a safe word is a good idea but I don't think it should be a set in stone savior. A Dom needs to know when enough is enough in the instance where a slave cannot get the word out. Whether it be because you're overwhelmed, unconscious, or anythig else you can think of. A point was made in another thread that if a sub is gagged, how the hell are they going to get the safe word out? I feel this is an excellent point. Learning your partners body language and knowing hwen to stop is way safer than constantly relying on a safe word. Just my opinion. Not trying to offend. A safe word should be the back up plan... not the main source you rely on.

[scarlet_85]

Also, with breath play... just always be safe. I have be "choked out" a time or two but never on a regular basis. We find it to be erotic and sexually fulfilling but my Dom says he always lets go when he can feel my body loosen up slightly. Which goes back to my point above. We push the limits but never to a point where an ambulance would need to be called.

[ksst]

We're doing more "faux" breath play and less real. So instead of my throat he has my jaw, where there is the same idea without the fact of choking or cutting off air. Or he'll cover my mouth and nose and tell me not to breathe. But I actually could get a breath if I had to. Still occasionally the real thing, but nothing as serious as choking out.

And the safeword drills did seem to help. He doesn't really use a gag on me, so we haven't discussed alternates to words, such as the ball.

[Red-15]

@ksst, get the ball anyway. It's a cheap toy, and better to have and not need, than to need and not have. Or be sure to have some other grasp-able item that will do the same thing.

[ksst]

That's true, and I know I said I would just above ^^ there. You have to kick me sometimes to remind me.

[scarlet_85]

Oh! My apologies! I thought you were doing full on breath play. I actually like how you explained the way you and your Master do it though. It achieves the same thing in a safer manner. I have trained in Jiu Jitsu and honestly like the feeling of being choked out. I live it when my toes tingle as my Master cums inside me. It's an all over body high.

[ksst]

Yeah, that would be not just a "No" for my Master, but a "Hell, no".

[this.is.me]

The only time I have ever needed to safe word I completely forgot mine, and I just use 'red'. I agree you need to just know each others body language. I think the only reason the Dom knew to stop was I started hysterically hysterically crying, which I never do.

[Dog's Lady]

I don't know if you were doing any other bondage with it, so this may not help your situation, but here is what my lover/Master does when I am tied up: one hand gets a safety knot--he puts the loose end of the rope in my hand, so all I have to do is pull and I have a hand free. I would think that if you were really in need of air, that hand just might jerk, and then come free, which would certainly signal something was wrong. My biggest problem with it is that part of me wants to really let go into his domination, and I am tempted to let go of that loose end. Since my l/M is all about safety, I have to remember this is a big no-no. BTW, unless I pull the end, on purpose, I do not come untied, so I can still have the feeling of being restrained and be safe. Hope this helps, if not you, then someone!

[Austerus]

That sounds like a great idea, but I can imagine why you might feel perturbed at having the ability to free yourself. It does seem like a good solution though :)

[Red-15]

@Dog's Lady, does the whole rig depend upon your safety knot? I think that's a great idea if you're playing with someone new, or perhaps outside one's own relationship. I would be grateful if you could expand upon just how this is done.

Thank you,

Don

[Dog's Lady]

It's Dog's knot--I'm hoping to learn it from him next time we get together-we are LDR. The safety knot is tied on one hand only; I think the idea is that if I really need to, I can get that hand free, then use it to release the rest on my own. Although I feel totally safe with Dog, I can never forget the Stephen King book, Gerald's Game, in which the top dies, leaving his bottom stuck in handcuffs, so I know it is a good idea. After all, anything can happen. I like to hold onto my restraints, not just have them on my wrists, so I can sort-of convince myself that the safety knot rope is just a little thicker. Yes, it is frustrating, a little, but on the whole, it makes me grateful that my first BDSM partner is so concerned with my safety. I've mentioned elsewhere that he and I were just friends for about 15 years before our relationship turned sexual at all, so I already trusted him a lot. Having him be so safety conscious is an added bonus, but may spoil me for any other top. I might expect him to be the same. I guess if this relationship ends, I will have to be doubly on guard about safety, since I don't really have to think about it now, if you get what I mean.
Once I learn the knot, I will try to explain it here, but I think it is related to the slip-knot used to tie horses. He (Dog) is in finals right now, but I will shoot him an email and ask if he can explain his technique--but don't hold your breath (pun intended!)
Thank you for the kind comments-I'm such a newbie at all of this, but I am a teacher at heart, so it feels really good to know that I was able to contribute and not just ask for help.

[ksst]

but don't hold your breath (pun intended!)


LOL

I hope if you have any other tops in the future they will be equally safety conscious.

[Dog's Lady]

Me, too. I just worry that, should I ever trust this much again-to let another man know about my submissive streak-I may trust too much, having been spoiled by Dog. If, my dear BDSM compatriots, you find me in a new kink relationship, try and remind me to watch for safety? I know it is my responsibility to watch out for my own skin, but if I get this twitterpated again I may be stupid for a while and would appreciate the reality slap upside the head. I see us reminding each other all the time on this site--I would just hope for one of those reminders to show up if/when I need it.
So, just in case anyone is just falling into love/lust right now: REMEMBER, Safe, Sane, and Consensual is the only absolute rule in this game. No pleasure is worth actually endangering your life or limbs. If s/he loves/lusts you back, s/he will want both of you to be safe, too--if only so you can keep playing!

[ksst]

I know what you mean by twitterpated/stupid and wanting to forget safety in the middle of the act. My Master never loses his head that way, but a lot of this on line safety discussion helps me realize I have to pull back and retain sense and sensibility too- he's not the only responsible one here. I have at times contemplated giving up safewords, and I don't even know why, these things come into my head like I'm falling down a deep hole, and the farther I fall the deeper I want to go. So, thank you, to my on line helpers/mentors/advice givers here.

[Dog's Lady]

Hey, that's what we are here for. Just be there for the next person-pay it forward.

[brace [EDQ]]

My "safeword" is an inappropriate song - any inappropriate song, whether it is sung, hummed through a gag, whether he can understand it or not. ie: humming "Happy Birthday" on his birthday wouldn't trigger it, but "Mary had a Little Lamb" would. I never got close to using it, but it's good for us to know it is there.

[leo9]

I hadn't used my safeword before, although we agreed to have one because it seemed like a good idea, everyone said it was a good idea. Then last night I actually did need it but I couldn't say it, I couldn't even think of it.I haven't seen this, but I have heard of it, and I did get into trouble once with a sub who got so deep into role-playing a kidnap victim that she forgot she had a safeword.
I was too far out/ down/under, where ever it was, and all I could mumble was "help, help, help" and he realized I was serious and quickly released me.
Another good reason to play with people you know! The sub mentioned above was one I'd only played with once before, if I'd known her reactions better I wouldn't have missed it.

My late wife didn't have an official safeword - we started with one, being responsible players, but it was a big moment in our relationship when I took it away - but if she called me by my name instead of "Master," I knew it was an emergency.

[Ozme52]

I haven't seen this, but I have heard of it, and I did get into trouble once with a sub who got so deep into role-playing a kidnap victim that she forgot she had a safeword.
Another good reason to play with people you know! The sub mentioned above was one I'd only played with once before, if I'd known her reactions better I wouldn't have missed it.Then how would you ever get to that point... that you know them well enough. I stand by my suggestion of training them to "remember" ala my firedrill notion. At play parties with subs I've never met, I always do so at least once, if not twice, depending on the activity. Besides... it's hot to grasp some hair, or grab a chin, tilt their head to make eye contact and say "Do you remember your safeword? Say it for me!!" ...and it sets a D/s mood for both them and me.


My late wife didn't have an official safeword - we started with one, being responsible players, but it was a big moment in our relationship when I took it away - but if she called me by my name instead of "Master," I knew it was an emergency.

And how is that NOT a safeword? By definition it's a word that makes you stop. You may have conditions which must be met to validate its use,and if she uses it and you deem it not an emergency... well I imagine you would deal with it at some point, whether immediately or later, as a disciplinary issue. But it IS indeed, a safeword.

[ksst]

Well, just to update, I haven't needed a safeword lately, but if he's worried about me he'll ask what color, and I'm generally green. Once I was at yellow. I have not used red yet. I have been unable to give a color at all occasionally in subspace and then he just backs off me anyway. This was also his question at the last munch, and the presenter recommended for him to find ways to take me deeper or bring me out of subspace at his will, as well as having me hold something that could be dropped as a signal, which is easier than talking I guess. I like being in subspace, and would just as soon stay there for a while :)