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thir
03-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Debate is Europe's best hope against extremism

"On Monday night, religious violence peaked as an imam was killed in an arson attack on the Rida mosque, the largest Shia mosque of Brussels. The attacker, who described himself as a Muslim, committed the crime to intimidate the local Shia community, linking the events to religious tensions in Syria, Belgian media reported."

"Belgium's extremists are not alone. Elsewhere in Europe, the fumes of burning cars and simmering conflict continue to intoxicate the continent's failing integration policies. Lawmakers try to relegate religion to the private sphere, marking clear boundaries between Islam and the west."

"There is, however, a way out of this standoff between secular, Islamist and sectarian forces. Despite indignant outcries at Dewinter's boldness, Belkacem's jihad and the Rida mosque tragedy, the events offer an opportunity to elevate the discussion to a higher level. Religious controversy fuels awareness, introspection and public debate – a central tenet of all modern, liberal societies."

"Public debate isn't just a footnote in democratic theory, it is a powerful tool. If we want to fight extremism, of any kind, we need to be able to fight it on its own terms. We need to familiarise ourselves again with religion, instead of taking refuge within the safe confines of secular ideals. The void has become filled with radical voices, unchallenged on the territory secularists chose to abandon."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/15/debate-europe-extremism-islam

lucy
03-17-2012, 01:48 PM
I used to think of myself as a liberal (and still believe I am) but this talk of "our integration policies have failed" is definitely beginning to piss me off.
Yeah, maybe we don't do as much as we could. But, when I look around, I see that those who failed most are those who have migrated to western European countries. I live in a neighborhood with more than 50% immigrants. When our local school organizes free German lessons for mothers and fathers of schoolchildren, most of which barely speak any German, they have to cancel their classes because nobody gives a shit.
I don't generally have a problem with immigration. More than half of my friends haven't been born here. Three of my grandparents haven't been born here and Switzerland wouldn't prosper the way it does without immigration. But integration needs an effort on both parts. Those who don't want to work on getting integrated here shouldn't be allowed to stay.

And no, I don't want to familiarise myself with religion. I want them to familiarise themselves with the notion that religion isn't a cornerstone of our society anymore. If they don't get that, they're kindly invited to leave. Or else they're shackled and forced to board the next plane to where their primitive ideas are still embraced. I don't want to devolve to accomodate them.

I know a perfectly fine integration policy: A one way ticket to Pristina, Skopje, Tunis, Kabul, Lagos or wherever the fuck they came from in the first place for all those who don't play by our rules.

They got a chance, they blew it, they go home. All others are most welcome to stay.