Review or not to review?

[BruceBoxer]

Here's what I think:
I found myself with a wee bit of extra time and was about to read and review some of the "recent popular" stories that lacked any reviews basically to give the authors some feedback.

BUT, I found it hard to do as the stories I read I just didn't find interesting. I thought, well, I could comment on the technical aspects but I was SO disinterested that I couldn't think of anything good to say--all told, I didn't review.

How about you folks? I see a lot of stories are not reviewed --what's stopping ya'll?

I like the reviews for my work--one of the reasons I do it--sure aint's for the $$$ n'cest pas?

[emmaadmirer]

I think, there have been some fine storys posted here in the last months. I very much like Tricia (The Degradation of...) and Captured!. I see you now the second time this night behind my bum (posted already another one after you)! What are you holding in your hand?

[BruceBoxer]

Originally posted by emmaadmirer
II see you now the second time this night behind my bum (posted already another one after you)! What are you holding in your hand?

Guten abend emma,

I'm holding a short crop to apply to your butt as needed--I imagine that would be fairly frequently.

Auf wiedersehn,
Obersturnbanfurher Boxer

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I review stories if I find them interesting or not. I base my desire to read the story based upon story codes. if the story has the codes I like, but sucks, I will let the author know that it could be improved. Although, I do tend to rate higher than I probably should, because I don't want to be a complete jerk about things.

You might not have been around for the fiasco with Brenda and her "cheesy feet" stories. Had she put the "feet" code on her stories, I naver would have read them as feet do nothing for me. However, she didn't, so I read one of them and rated it poorly, because it wasn't written terribly well and the content was not interesting to me. I did give it a 4, which, in my opinion, wasn't too bad.

I guess the point to be made is to review the story based on how it is written and how it interests you. if you think the author could have done better, made it more interesting or should use a spellchecker, then tell them. Heck, that's how people improve; by knowing what they need to do to make their works better.

[redEva]

I do try to review stories, but sometimes it is hard, for the same reason Master BruceBoxer said – I'm not interested. Other times, I find the rating 1-10 to be hard to adhere to, because story might be poorly written, but I liked the context, or more often – I cannot say that I liked the context, but I read the story because the writing style is to my liking and it was easy read.

So I think that rating should be revised – just because one does not like or agree with the theme does not mean that the story is poorly written.

My mom thought me long ago “if you have nothing nice to say – don’t say nothing at all” and I tend to do so.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

The review system has been updated. The descriptions are much better now than they were six months ago. I think the rating system is probably fine the way it is and improving upon it any further would be counterproductive, in my opinion.

What you, as a reader and as a reviewer, have to do is to use your judgement and assign a rating based upon how you enjoyed the story. If you thought the story you read was superb and couldn't be improved upon at all, then give it a 9 or 10. If you thought the story was great, but the author really needed a spellchecker, then rate it slightly lower. So forth and so on...

It is perfectly possible to write a poor review and be nice about it. Many people here do it all the time. If we can get boccaccio out of hiding, I'm sure he'll agree.

[redEva]

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
The review system has been updated. The descriptions are much better now than they were six months ago. I think the rating system is probably fine the way it is and improving upon it any further would be counterproductive, in my opinion.

What you, as a reader and as a reviewer, have to do is to use your judgement and assign a rating based upon how you enjoyed the story. If you thought the story you read was superb and couldn't be improved upon at all, then give it a 9 or 10. If you thought the story was great, but the author really needed a spellchecker, then rate it slightly lower. So forth and so on...

It is perfectly possible to write a poor review and be nice about it. Many people here do it all the time. If we can get boccaccio out of hiding, I'm sure he'll agree.

Thank you for the explanation, I have joined the forum recently so would not know how it was 6 months ago. Still, the point I was trying (unfortunately totally unsuccessfully apparently) to get through is that the rating is from bad to good and there is no flexibility as to say “I liked the context but your grammar is awful” or vice versa.

As to giving poor reviews to people – most people get offended, and no mater how shiny the paper is – if manure is what you wrapped in it, it will still stink.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by redEva
[/SIZE]

Thank you for the explanation, I have joined the forum recently so would not know how it was 6 months ago. Still, the point I was trying (unfortunately totally unsuccessfully apparently) to get through is that the rating is from bad to good and there is no flexibility as to say “I liked the context but your grammar is awful” or vice versa.

Sure there is. That's what that little review box under the rating drop-down bar is for. If you give a story a 7 raiting, you can just type in, "I gave your story a 7 rating, because I enjoyed the content, but you really needed to work on the plot and the spelling was poor."



As to giving poor reviews to people – most people get offended, and no mater how shiny the paper is – if manure is what you wrapped in it, it will still stink.

I don't know about that. Did you think my example above was rude? Seemed fair and objective to me. Although, it's hard to tell if your own opinion is objective. Kind of an oxymoron, I think.

If people get offended by what you rate their stories, then that's their problem, not yours. You just tell them how you though tthe story was and let them interepret it how they will. They can always email you and ask why you gave them such a poor rating or why you thought the plot was not so good.

Jeez. You can tell you're Canadian. Worried about offending people you'll never meet and don't know. I love that! :)

[redEva]

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
Jeez. You can tell you're Canadian. Worried about offending people you'll never meet and don't know. I love that! :)

Actualy im Croatian - just live in this Ice hole.

[BruceBoxer]

Originally posted by redEva
Actualy im Croatian - just live in this Ice hole.

Come on red--admit it--with that red hair, green eyes and spirit--you GOTTA be Irish (like me) or Texan (like me) :)

[redEva]

Originally posted by BruceBoxer
Come on red--admit it--with that red hair, green eyes and spirit--you GOTTA be Irish (like me) or Texan (like me) :)

for you MyLord ill be anything you like, as long as you promise to be nice and gentle with that crop of yours *smiles and looks at Master BruceBoxer with sapphire eyes*

[Moggy]

Like most, I try to be fair in my reviews, and sometimes need to remind myself how much effort it takes to write a few thousand words of good fiction.

I tend to rate lower stories where I think the author has been particularly careless or has posted something with absolutely no erotic substance.

What I really dislike is where mine is the only review for a story, particularly if I haven't given it a good rating. After all it is just my subjective opinion. What the story needs is more opinions, not just my entirely subjective one.

(Hey Tourguide, subjective opinions are much more fun than objective ones!)

The 'worth' of a story should not be measure by a single review. Those 10/10 stories with just 1 review come to mind. I bet it won'tbe more enjoyable than a 9/10 story based on 10 or more reviews.

We really do have some talented writers on this site and we should encourage them with reviews and feedback.

For all those that care, can I make a suggestion that we each commit to writing at least 5 reviews per month. That could make a big difference.

HAPPY READING (and reviewing!)

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
The review system has been updated. The descriptions are much better now than they were six months ago. I think the rating system is probably fine the way it is and improving upon it any further would be counterproductive, in my opinion.

B: Generally speaking, I too find that the rating system is easier to use since Jinn put in place the system Marcus proposed several months ago. One of our most prolific reviewers - Hyphen666 - has mentioned numerous times that he finds the descriptions that go with the various rankings to be constraining. I understand what he is saying, but I think that they are useful, albeit imperfect, guidelines. The new ratings help to define, in relative terms, what a '6' or an '8' should mean -- making the ratings more both more consistent and more meaningful.



What you, as a reader and as a reviewer, have to do is to use your judgement and assign a rating based upon how you enjoyed the story. If you thought the story you read was superb and couldn't be improved upon at all, then give it a 9 or 10. If you thought the story was great, but the author really needed a spellchecker, then rate it slightly lower. So forth and so on...

B: The new system has, I think, made for tougher (but much more accurate) ratings over all; I can't prove it, but I suspect that in the old system almost half of the ratings were 10's. Readers who liked a story saw lots of other stories given 10's and felt that anything less would be unflattering.

B: But with the new system one can give a good but not world class story a '7' or an '8' without fear, I hope, of hurting the author's feelings. And even stories that need a fair amount of work (4, 5, or 6) can show promise and deserve constructive encouragement.

B: Scores of 1, 2, and 3 I reserve for those authors who, in my imperfect judgment, didn't make a serious effort to make the story a pleasure to read -- by permitting numerous spelling, grammar, diction, errors. Huge paragraphs are a big turn-off for me, too.



It is perfectly possible to write a poor review

B: Hey, my reviews aren't that poor ;-)


and be nice about it.


B: My niceness quotient went up considerably after someone (perhaps someone whose story I had reviewed harshly, but perhaps not) trashed one of mine. :-)

B: Marcus also suggested that we should use different names for authoring, posting to the forum, and reviewing. Perhaps he is right, but it would be nice to think that we are all adults here and can accept impersonal criticism in that vein.

Many people here do it all the time. If we can get boccaccio out of hiding, I'm sure he'll agree.

B: Boccaccio is not in hiding -- he's just an idiot. :-)

B: Trying to write two full-length stories at the same time (one of them under another name) is just stupid. And he has lost a couple of weeks to business travel in the last couple of months. So he hasn't had much time to work on his own stories, let alone all of the other stories here. But one of the two stories (not the interminable Jade Pavilion II unfortunately) is nearing completion, and maybe he'll be re-entering the reviewing lists in the next month or so.

Boccaccio

[e.e. norcod]

I review from two perspectives, editorially and critically. From an editorial perspective I try and assist the author in matters of grammar and composition. Good editors help authors get better. From a critical perspective I try and analyse what I liked and what I loved. Critical reviewing should allow the author to bask in the glow of achievement and to alert other readers.

Unlike in the real world, when something sucks I don't have to go into detail why it sucks. Believe me you have to use a lot more keystrokes to shoot something down than to praise it. Therefore here in fantasy land, if I don't like it, I don't have to review it!! YEAH!

Lastly, I like authored reviews. If somebody reviews my writing, I like to go and read their fiction, see how they did it. In my sixth decade of life I still feel that I am learning. I don't care how harshly you treat my prose or trash my fantasies but I want to read what you have written. In the world of Science and Nature not knowing who has shot your paper down really sucks (although you can often figure out from their sytle and what they said who they are). Since we are here at the cutting edge of the avant garde and most of us are using psuedonyms, let's be straightforward.

[Escritor]

I personally love to have my stories reviewed and I'm very interested on what people have to say about them so I can improve. But I've found that not that much people review stories. Maybe it's just because it's been 2 weeks online or maybe it's that the story codes of my stories don't appeal so much to readers, I really don't know.

Regards

[Escritor]

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
[B]The review system has been updated. The descriptions are much better now than they were six months ago. I think the rating system is probably fine the way it is and improving upon it any further would be counterproductive, in my opinion.


I have a suggestion for the review system. Maybe it could be subdivided into 2 categories:

-Content: Where you'd rate from 1 to 10 only the content of the story, the plot, and not taking grammar, spelling, etc. into consideration

-Writing: Here you'd rate, again from 1 to 10, the writing skills of the author, his grammar and spelling, not taking the plot into consideration

You could have an average of both the categories and when you searched for a story you could do so by either category or by the average between them. As for current reviews that have used the current system, my only suggestion is to give the same rating to both categories (so if I reviewed a story and gave it a 7, both writing and content should have a 7).

What do you think about this??

Regards

[woodsman'sgame]

I hesitate to review for many reasons.
These stories are written more than anything for the telling of fantasies. They are meant to stimulate our desires and to arouse.
Few stories that I read are really well-developed in plot.
The review will be influenced a lot by the reader's taste in BDSM.
Did he/she like the content? Was it something he/she found stimulating?

So, I don't review. From time to time, however, I come across real gems. Either stories that have a well developed plot in addition to well-done scenes of BDSM, or stories that have exquisitely written descriptions full of detail and imaginative writing.
When I find one of these, I send the author an email.
This is not saying that I don't enjoy the others I read. I just am not inspired to comment.

[Lord Douche]

Generally if a story has few reviews I'll try and give one. Also if I enjoyed it, no matter how many reviews I'll give one :)
I agree with Woodsman's Game; few have a decent plot. It's surprisingly hard to balance plot and sex, and keep people interested in it.

[S_Couture]

I usually try to review the stories I read. Sometimes I read a story and I know that it isn't my cup of tea. I tend to like the psychological aspects of bdsm and not so much the physical ones. If it tends toward the former, I leave a review. If it tends toward the latter, I don't, because I don't think I can be impartial.

[e.e. norcod]

I guess I review more than I should. I should write more original articles and fewer reviews. However it comes naturally to me as a teacher and peer review (scientific) reviewer to comment upon what has been written.

Any review must encompass both expression (grammar, spelling, style) as well as content (plot, character, etc.). To do otherwise is to either encourage illiteracy (in the classical sense) or boredom.

Naturally, if you want me to review your fiction pander to my prejudices which are F/f corporal punishment with a bit of bondage thrown in. If I do not read it I will not review it. To do otherwise is to be truly pedantic and academia is too full of pedants as it is.

[Harold]

Originally posted by e.e. norcod
I guess I review more than I should. I should write more original articles and fewer reviews.

I've enjoyed reading your reviews and would encourage you to continue. I often learn something from your comments.

Regarding reviews in general, I often use them in deciding whether or not to read a story. Sometimes I find the reviews more entertaining than the story.

For my own part, I maintain separate identities for writing and reviewing. As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, I also tend to pay more attention to reviews done by other authors, so I'm considering changing that policy.

When I do write reviews, I try to ignore my personal preferences and fetishes. A story shouldn't be downgraded simply because the author's kink didn't correspond closely to my own. I'm particularly impressed with stories that don't correspond to my own preferences but are written with sufficient skill that I enjoyed them anyway.

[lex ludite]

I have strong doubts that the review process as practiced on this site has any positive or negative impact on most writers. I am beginning to realize that the true review of any story is the number of hits it gets! I think most posters have figured this out as well.

[e.e. norcod]

Ah come-on lex. when you get a nice review you glow! I pay more attention to what they write than the numerical score, however, because the numerical scores seem to vary so much.

You by the way, write pretty good reviews (that means I tend to agree with what you write).

I myself review fiction under the same name as I write fiction. Helps prevent flaming. You can look up examples of the reviewers fiction. If you sharply criticise someones writing you better write better than they do!

[Fox]

I read the comment by Lex Ludite ...


have strong doubts that the review process as practiced on this site has any positive or negative impact on most writers. I am beginning to realize that the true review of any story is the number of hits it gets! I think most posters have figured this out as well.

Lex, I totally disagree with you.

I submit stories to this site specifically because I WANT the reviews, I want the feedback into my writing. Believe it or not, I especially want to know how I can improve my skills in storytelling, scene setting, character development, etc. That is, if you DON’T like my story, tell me why.
I interpret the reviews this way: only a small sampling of readers will take the time to write a review. Even fewer will contact the writer. For every review that is written, there are probably 100 or more out there who agree wholeheartedly. For every e-mail the author receives, there are probably 1000 who agree. Flamers included, by the way.

As to the number of hits being a true review of a work, then I’ll resurrect my FoxTales website and not share “the glory” with anyone.
I respectfully suggest that in order for your statement to carry any accuracy, certain steps must be taken by Jinn:
- all stories must be listed, alphabetically to ensure equal access, and the “new” and “updated” categories scrapped.
- All stories must be complete when submitted, no serials or revisions or updates
- In addition, a new start date with all stories counted as zero established so that a fair assessment can be made.
- No multiple “hits” by a single user. Visit the story once, then that’s it. The user isp code will be the judge, not the nick.
- Finally, no posting of “ads” or “hype” on the forums saying “have you seen Fox’s new story? Wow it’s even better than all his others …” by the writer or by anyone.

In the real world, Top Ten lists are but one of the measures of success. The truly great works are not always the best selling works. Gao Xinjiang won a Nobel Prize, but does he outsell Nora Roberts? Jimmy Buffet is one of only 3 authors to ever be Number One on the New York Times bestseller lists in both fiction and non-fiction. Does that make his work more noteworthy than John Irving? Harlequin Romances outsell just about everything, a measure of “hits” does not make them great literature, only popular …

Sorry Lex, but in this case, democracy does not rule. Reading and writing are not popularity contests.

[Aurelius]

Fox: I respectfully suggest that in order for your statement to carry any accuracy, certain steps must be taken by Jinn:- all stories must be listed, alphabetically to ensure equal access, and the “new” and “updated” categories scrapped.
Good idea. I've just uploaded my new story. "Aardvarks in Bondage."


Lex: I have strong doubts that the review process as practiced on this site has any positive or negative impact on most writers.

The reviews are a kind of 'visitors book' for a story, and while not necessarily a true measure of the 'worth' of a story, they do provide a useful guide for readers and writers alike.

We writers work harder than many would suppose to produce our little stories. Knowing that somebody out there was amused and/or aroused by my work encourages me to keep writing.

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Aurelius
Good idea. I've just uploaded my new story. "Aardvarks in Bondage."

Not bad, Aurelius. Only time will tell if "Aardvarks" is in the same class as "Aachen Achin'" my, um, Frankly erotic epic that tells the tale of the establishment of Charlemagne's first capital, in which barbarian princesses are taken prisoner and mistreated in ways one would not expect of a Holy Roman Emperor.



The reviews are a kind of 'visitors book' for a story, and while not necessarily a true measure of the 'worth' of a story, they do provide a useful guide for readers and writers alike.

We writers work harder than many would suppose to produce our little stories. Knowing that somebody out there was amused and/or aroused by my work encourages me to keep writing.

Well said, as regards each of those points.

Boccaccio

[Fox]

... will get to my contribution

"Aaaaack!"

first, which will quickly zoom to the top of the charts, making me the all time most popular widely respected and hallowed BDSM writer.
I wonder which tux to wear to the Nobel awards?

;)

Hmmm, I just saw the review of " Aaaaack!"

Oh well, maybe next year ...

[e.e. norcod]

They don't wear tuxes to the Nobel ceremonies its strictly white tie and tails.

I love serials. I like to read them and I like to write them.

Lets just let Jinn run the site the way he likes to. I like this site better than any other I have ever contributed to.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I like to sit and read what others think of my work. It gives me a little thrill when there are new reviews to my stories. Of course, it would help if I would write some more stories, instead of keeping an eye on the kids here. ;)

I like receiving emails from people telling me what they thought of my pieces. I would never have guessed so many females would have read my stories and would take the effort to email me about them because they enjoyed them. That part boggles my mind.

More importantly, though, it lets me know if I should continue with what I am doing or not. If the overall consensus is good after three or four chapters, I will keep the story as it is written. If it is not, I will try to take it in a different direction or trash it altogether.

And, just so everyone knows, there are more chapters coming in "Rose..." There's also a new story in the works.

[Fox]

Lets just let Jinn run the site the way he likes to. I like this site better than any other I have ever contributed to.

Well said, e e norcod.

[lex ludite]

No argument from this reviewer either. The site is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. Jinn is to be complimented for all his hard work and efforts in keeping this circus on the straight and narrow, most of the time.

[Faibhar]

Not so! lex ludite of the "strong doubts"(about writiers receiving Reviews).

It is always perceived as something of a blessing that readers take the time to post their reactions to a particular piece. Their words, be they of a positive or negative vein, help in many ways.

Reviewers always get, and deserve, a posted "Thank You" reply from at least this author. Should they choose to glance at the f/u is not the issue; their initial response is.

As has been mentioned before, there is a set of Reviewers who are "regular" (and please, no sniggering here about my s/n providing sufficient
fiber to keep them "regular").
New Reviewers tend to be pleasant surprises.

[GaryWilcox]

Speaking of your own writing, Faibhar...

Since coming back to the forum, I have probably read The Target at least seven times. I can't get enough of Erika's little misadventures... I only wish there had been more.

[woodsman'sgame]

I think I'll start writing reviews after reading this thread a little more.
It seems it helps most authors. I'll start soon. I'm going to make myself a rubric so that my ratings are consistent and fair. (at least according to my rubric)

[e.e. norcod]

On the contrary woodsman'sgame. Your last story was excellent and you should write another before you fritter away your efforts reviewing.

[Faibhar]

read The Target Really, RubbrSpatula (and btw welcome back!) thank you for the fine words and I am glad that you enjoyed the piece.

You are not the first to favorably comment on that particular one, however, and if only I could bottle up whatever the appeal of The Target is, well, hey! With such knowledge I could go into tobacco marketing.

Thank you anyway.

[slave ruthie]

wow - the Target is good! i wish i could write things with that pace, Faibhar!

love & respect

ruthie[Phil]

XXXXXX;)

[Faibhar]

slave ruthie, thank you for your most generous comments. Were emoticons not allowed in this state of smiley faces and Have a Good Day-isms, I would insert a blushing one to further reflect my reaction to your flaterring post.

[Phoenix]

Hi guys. I don't write to the forums very often but I've been following this thread for a while now. I'm an author on this website and I've got a few stories up. Some have received great reviews, others less so. I'm not so worried when people comment on the content, writing style, structure, etc. That's what helps me to better my work. What I find upsetting is when people give a low rating and only because they simply didn't like a very small insignificant aspect of the story, and most of the time it's something that isn't even to do with the story.

One review in particular stands out and I was given a poor rating because the story codes didn't match the story 'exactly.' I found that very unfair. There wasn't a single word about the story, content or anything else. This person had a problem with the code and they were going to give me a low grade because they couldn't get over a single mistake.

The story took about a week to write. You write a draft of the story, re-read. You re-write parts of it. Delete and re-write major sections of it. Re-read. You spell-check it and do your best with the grammar. Re-read. When you're finally convinced it's the best you can do, you upload it to the webmaster and hope for the best.

Fair enough there are some stories out there that appear to have been thrown together in a fit. I find it annoying when I spend quite a bit of time on a fantasy, fan's request, etc ... only to have it rated low because of something that isn't really part of the story. I myself like to think I'm getting better and are willing to try new ideas, new styles and ways of communicating with readers. But I'm a lot tougher than most authors out there. I've spoken to a couple of other authors who have been given really bad reviews. Some have quit because they feel humiliated and feel they've been given a hard time for their work. Others I've managed to convince to write again.

Personally I feel that only other authors should really be able to review stories. They'd then know how much time and effort people really put into their work.

Thanks for letting me rant on. I really needed to get this off my chest.

Firebird

[Moggy]

Valid points. However I read your story and was also disappointed with the code discrepancy. If a writer wants good reviews, then taking care over its content and editing is important, and you've done that.

The next step is to get the codes right so the appropriate people read it and enjoy it. You have my sympathy but if the codes are wrong, the 'code crocodiles' will bite!

[Xue Lan]

Personally I feel that only other authors should really be able to review stories. They'd then know how much time and effort people really put into their work.
That is like saying only painters should be able to visit art galleries.
I am not a writer, but I like to read. I have a right to post a review here, just like I can buy a book at a bookstore or buy a CD. That is one way I can say whether I like the story.
As a reader here, I should tell the author why I like or not like the story, not blame the story codes - you're right there.

[Faibhar]

The analogy of "only painters..."etc. used by Xue Lan to disagree with the post from Phoenix rings true.

It is in the eye of the receptive audience, i.e., the readers here, to judge if he/she enjoys the story, and then deciding to write a Review or not.

Restricting Reviews to just other authors truly is elitist, and misses the entire point of writing for the consumption of all and any.

[Escritor]

I'm with Xue Lan here. As a writer, I write for myself, other writers or the readers?

I think the answer is that a write partly for myself but mostly for readers to enjoy what I have in my mind. Since I write for readers, it's logical that they should be able to comment on my stories and review them.

As I said in an earlier post on this same thread, I really value and look forward for reviews on my stories.

Regards

[Moggy]

I agree with the above few comments. The problem is that fewer than 1 in every 1000 readers bother to review a story. I continue to be amazed by this remarkable statistic. What an ungrateful bunch these 99.9% are!!!

Is the writing on this site really so bad? Or does the average BDSM reader lack the basic manners of passing a compliment to a writer once in a while?

[e.e. norcod]

Reading is easy, writing is hard. Those of us who write a lot as part of our daily grind enjoy writing non-fiction fantasy on the side. When you review articles professionally and teach students, reviewing fantasy is easy and fun. I suspect that it is not so for most people. It is intimidating and uncomfortable. Of those that do write reviews, without training and experience they tend to focus on the trivial and the rote of grammar and spelling. It is only with time that you learn to regard other writers, some as students to be fostered, others as collegues to be enjoyed, and lastly a few as exemplars to be learned from. I'd say about 0.1% is about right.

[Faibhar]

Moggy's last two questions must be posed and any answer not necessarily expected.

With the first question - that of the writing quality posted here - the answer affirming writing prowess has been repeated many times in both this Forum and in Reviews. Plus, it does not follow that bad writing engenders paltry Reviews (just think of all of the bad words written about some distatseful, poorly conceived/written piece).

As to the latter of the two questions posed, better judgment, gratefulness for previous Reviews, and hope of any future Reviews from this poster does prevail i.e., it just doesn't make good sense to bite the hand that feeds you...

[Xue Lan]

Moggy says

What an ungrateful bunch these 99.9% are!!!

Two things, then I will keep quiet.
First, Moggy, you ever heard of ancient Chinese practice called Death from a Thousand Cuts? You get a thousand people writing reviews, I am very sure you're not going to get a thousand happy smiley faces.

Second, Moggy, you think we who do not write reviews are ungrateful? Tell you what, how many hits do you think this site, never mind your stories, will get if only reviewers come here? Maybe twenty, ya? On a good day.
You write a story and keep it for yourself, okay fine. You publish it, here or in bookstore, then you expect good reviews and bad reviews and lots and lots of no comments.

Okay, maybe three things.
You think readers are ungrateful now? Keep telling us how mean and nasty we are. You see ungrateful then!
Pah!

:mad:

[Moggy]

Awww! Did I touch a sore point? Well that's too bad!


Xue Lan: Tell you what, how many hits do you think this site, never mind your stories, will get if only reviewers come here? Maybe twenty, ya? On a good day. You have totally missed the point. After Jinn of course, it is writers and reviewers that are the lifeblood of this site. The anonymous masses of visitors wouldn't have anything to read otherwise. How many writers would post here if nobody gave any reviews or feedback? Far, far less. Maybe Fox can explain it to you as I can't be bothered.

[Phoenix]

Hi guys, I think even if readers couldn't put in reviews to stories would not affect the traffic to the website. These stories communicate to our very fantasies. Isn't it nice to sometimes read a story that is on the same wavelength as your own personal thoughts and dreams? ... It helps to know that there are other people out there who share these fantasies. I commend authors who write stories. They're putting their time and effort into work for other people to enjoy.

Unfortunately, we have a rating system which can kick the guts out of your confidence within a single glance. Personally I don't like the rating system of 1 to 10. It's too easily abused. People should be able to review and comment, but not grade a story. A number of times over the past two years I've given up writing all together. Sometimes it's because of bad reviews, sometimes I simply cannot be bothered. But I find after a few weeks I miss the thrill of putting my thoughts and fantasies down on paper.

Like a lot of authors I find myself being stretched in many different directions trying to please fans, stay on the good side of bad reviewers and keep up with my own personal goals. It's easy to say, "Just write what you like." but I also like pleasing people with my work.

Fair enough that the stories codes I've chosen for my stories maybe inadequate. A couple of my stories deserve every single code while others simply have one code wrong out of six or seven. But is that any reason to bad review a story and even have a go at the author for all their hard work?! I think not.

[Curtis]

At the time I registered at this site, authors were begging to have their work reviewed, asking "Where Have All the Reviewers Gone?". At that time it was mentioned that there was a site who reversed your idea and only let authors post stories if they were reviewers. For every two stories reviewed, you could post one, or some such thing. That idea was shot down in favor of an appeal to lurkers to begin reviewing, which I did, but it may be time to revisit it.

[Faibhar]

Certainly all are encouraged to write down their thoughts and then post them. Somehow, posting and reviewing got connected and that would seem like mixing apples and oranges. One needn't have to do one in order to do the other...To restrict reviewing to only those others who do make the move to post their story(ies) would seem to severly limit the scope of feedback.

As each writer has his or her own point of view, that may tend to unduly influence their reaction to another's work. With so-called lurkers they have no such limitation and view each piece they choose strictly on their own merits. If these readers then choose to post a Review, then so much the better.

[e.e. norcod]

I have been so inspired by all this talk of writing that I am motivated to finish off a new piece of fiction set in the Personal Assistant Magazine universe. I have about an hour's worth of work-work to finish and then a couple of hours of charitable work to do and then I will put Paula to her punishment.

No more reviewing, more fiction.

[Dari]

I have to say that I am just as lazy as a reader as I am as a writer, meaning that I do have short bursts of creatigity that drive me to the keyboard, and then for a whole year I do next to nothing. So I shouldn't whine about people not reading my stories first off.

I'm also a lazy reviewer, if ever I write an email to the author, not post the feedback to the story - maybe I should just change that. But I know from myself, I read a story, and it might even be good, and I do even want to review it ... but then something comes in between, and I forget about it, somehow.

I know from the many times a week that I check my inbox that I'd rather have more feedback for my own stories, but I guess I do understand every reader who just doesn't write one, sad but true

[woodsman'sgame]

Works that are actually published in hardcopy are reviewed by critics who are usually qualified to give an opinion. The author's only feedback from his readers are the occasional fan mail and the number of copies sold.

The review system here helps us improve our writing and strokes or bruises our egos, but it is not the reality of publishing. I am grateful for the reviews I get, but I expect nothing other than the hits I receive to let me know if it was what the reader wanted or not.

But the number of hits here are not an indicator of the quality of the story. I have noticed that certain types of stories get more hits than others. After having read them, I realize that the readers are looking for certain content more than they are looking for good writing. On one particular occasion, I noticed that a mediocre story containing more violent acts got a lot more hits than another much better written story with much milder content.

Keeping this observation in mind, the reviews become more important. Those authors who write well but do not produce the harder content need to know that they are appreciated by those
who read a variety of material.

[GaryWilcox]

Reviews are fan reviews... but they're also peer reviews.

It won't break my heart if my first story submission gets a lousy rating. I hope the criticism is direct and honest, but nothing more. If I want an ego stroke, I'll look in the mirror and do the Stuart Smally routine. When I look at reviews, it will be to see where I can improve.

Negative and nasty comments will be ignored, so if it gives someone a thrill to make 'em, that's okay. The peer group I'm writing for doesn't really do that, anyways...

[Faibhar]

Frankenisms aside, it's nice to believe, as Gary Wilcox posted:
The peer group I'm writing for doesn't really do that, anyways...

Unfortunately, sometimes caustic Reviews, even here, cannot be avoided but, as GW also wrote, that sort of thing is the nature of the beast/comes with the terriortory, etc., and is to be taken in stride.

[woodsman'sgame]

OK I NEED TO ANNOUNCE THIS

For some reason neither my reviews nor my responses to the reviews of my story will post. I've tried and tried. Jinn and I are currently working on this problem. So, for all those who have reviewed my stories, I would like to thank you right now for your comments and the time you took to review. I appreciate any comments and suggestions.

THANK YOU REVIEWERS

[vanillaslave]

*steps gingerly into thread*

pssst the last time this member of the great unwashed lurking readers checked, she could not review stories as she is not a paying member. she tried. has this changed?

*backs away from thread slowly*

*tiptoes back in to add...i just checked again and now i am able to review..perhaps i just needed to join this forum...*

this is roseanne rosanna dana saying "oh. um. nevermind."

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Game: I got your review to my story, so unless your reviewing thingie broke after that, it's working.

vanillaslave: You have to be a registered member of the site, not a paying member. The review system has to have a user name to cue off of when you post.

[Faibhar]

vanillaslave: You have to be a registered member of the site,

BDSM_Touguide's advice is sound though one could also add that it does help to be able to read. Not to fear, however, there are quite a few avenues for visual learners, e.g. vanillaslave, to pursue should they so desire.

[Harold]

Originally posted by vanillaslave
this is roseanne rosanna dana saying "oh. um. nevermind."


Wasn't that Emily Litella?

[woodsman'sgame]

I can review and respond now. Jinn fixed my problem.

[Curtis]

Back to Phoenix's idea of only allowing authors to review; I was reading reviews and replies to a story by Sir Nathan last night, and his idea was that authors should be BARRED from reviewing, the reason being that authors pick apart other authors work and insist that stories be written as the reviewer would have them written, rather than reviewing them for what they are.

Hee, hee, hee!

[slave ruthie]

i'm afraid i don't post reviews like soem ppl expect from contributors to this wonderful library but i DO write directly to one or two authors whose work has really touched me...i don't feel sort of qualified to rate others' work which is a cheat as i've been encouraged and hopefully learned from comments about my own efforts

so i guess i'm confused about what to do about reviewing and i read this forum with great interest for what is the best policy...

love & respect

ruthie

XXXXXX;)

[BruceBoxer]

ruthie honey, you do whatever you feel like doing. There's enough tough things that matter in the universe to use brain cells on--reviewing stories here is not one of 'em--and since I never heard from you directly, that's a good way to review my stuff--not of your liking and that's certainly cool.

Be safe,
Boxer


Originally posted by slave ruthie
i'm afraid i don't post reviews like soem ppl expect from contributors to this wonderful library but i DO write directly to one or two authors whose work has really touched me...i don't feel sort of qualified to rate others' work which is a cheat as i've been encouraged and hopefully learned from comments about my own efforts

so i guess i'm confused about what to do about reviewing and i read this forum with great interest for what is the best policy...

love & respect

ruthie

XXXXXX;)

[lex ludite]

The majority of authors, myself included, depend on reviews to guide us away from the reefs of self indulgence and to give us some idea of who our audience is. We also need more than "I really liked or really hated your story". If it's good, why do you think so? On the other hand why, in your opinion, was it bad? Most authors if they are to survive develop thick skin or perhaps armor plating in certain cases. Constructive criticism, no matter how painful, is the gold standard for any reviewer worth his or her salt, and is highly prized by all authors genuinely interested in improving their craft. Naturally writing criticism is an art form too, and the only way you develop this talent is to write reviews, lots and lots of reviews. Don't worry, if you are off base either your fellow reviewers or the author (of course) will tip you to this fact and hopefully you can then regroup and write more reviews. I've worked both sides of the street and let me tell you, it's hard work, but when you do something good, be it a cogent review or a well written story it's worth all the trouble.

[Moggy]

and his idea was that authors should be BARRED from reviewing, the reason being that authors pick apart other authors work and insist that stories be written as the reviewer would have them written, rather than reviewing them for what they are. How peculiar!
I'm often struck by
1) how generous many writers are in their reviews. (Witness the recent Tom Justin story, 5 reviews, 9.5 rating, all from writers)
2) how little tit-for-tat reviewing there is between writers.
3) How few malicious reviews there are, even though there are some truly awful stories posted. It's no good beating about the bush. Some stories deserve a good kicking from reviewers. If someone has the vanity required to post their efforts for the world to see, they'll soon get a reality check.
And in any case, they're just stories right? Your self-esteem shouldn't be based on your stories' reviews. If it does, you've got problems!

[slave ruthie]

dear Boxer Sir

i never meant to imply that i didn't like Your or O/others' stories because i hadn't written to T/them! its just that, well many of the stories in the Library seem to appeal more to a male or Dominant perspective and i find it difficult to relate to them. i suppose i'm biased towards a "submissive-feminist" perspective which rather narrows what umm hits the spot lol

so i'm sorry if A/anybody took offense at my posting but i didn't mean it that way - honest!

love & respect & best wishes for the festive season from Phil and His slave, ruthie

XXXXXX;)

www.slaveregister.com/763339

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Moggy
How peculiar!
I'm often struck by
1) how generous many writers are in their reviews. (Witness the recent Tom Justin story, 5 reviews, 9.5 rating, all from writers)

During the recent story contest, Fox, the chief justice as it were of our panel of judges, told me that the scores of the judges for the three prize-winners were almost identical. Which is a good sign, I think -- that most reviewers are trying to evaluate a story based on its merits rather than solely on its erotic appeal to them personally.

2) how little tit-for-tat reviewing there is between writers.

Do you mean tit-for-tat as far as exchanging favorable reviews? Or regarding responding to unfavorable reviews? The latter practice is not unheard of. The only negative review I have ever received here was submitted by a very well-known writer on this site (under another nom de plume) just a few days after I had given one of his/her stories a tepid review. It is of course possible that the author genuinely didn't like my story, but the timing of his/her review, coupled with the great disparity between his/her rating and that of all of the other reviewers of that story) gave me about a 98% certainty that it was a retaliatory review rather than an honest one. (Later on that author inadvertently used that same "reviewing" nom de plume on the site in another context which made his/her identity clear to me)

3) How few malicious reviews there are, even though there are some truly awful stories posted.

I think there's a world of difference between 'harsh' and "malicious". I've awarded lots of '1's and '2's to authors who didn't bother to proofread their stories, but never out of malice. Someone commented to me recently that my reviews have been, on the whole, more generous in the last six months than they were formerly. I don't think that's really true. What I think happens is that after a time one doesn't even bother to open the stories of authors that have disappointed one in the past -- thus weeding out a lot of the lower scores one might otherwise award.

Happy holidays to all!

Boccaccio

[lex ludite]

For the record, the best and most constructive review I ever received came from Boccacio, coupled with an average grade that was well deserved. I do believe that I acknowledged it at the time.

As for tit-for-tat, tell me about it! It's just something that comes with the territory, another one of life's little annoyances.

[simon]

When I read on line a story providing I completely read it and it hasn't any / many reviews I will normally review it. I will normally review it also if I violently disagree with the rating.
However mostly I read off line alrthough I have a broadBand connection and then the story has to be outstanding (LY GOOD) for me to log into the site and review it
I find it difficult to mix writing skills, and content even if content is pre chosen by my reading choice.
Maybe all reviewers should be asked to review a selection of stories which were chosen for them but then would there be any reviews?

[e.e. norcod]

To be honest I find that writers are the best reviewer's. Realizing that I may precipitate a flame war I have found that Bocca and Lex are among the best reviewers that I have read (I always read the other reviews when writing mine) and they are also reasonably active writers. Woodsman's game is an excellent writer (sometimes even better than Lex or Bocca) and her reviews are preceptive but she just doesn't review enough. Ah Hah! That should keep things going for a while.

In academia writing and reviewing go hand and hand because whether or not you get published depends on the results of screening by anonymous reviewers. If the two or three reviewers your paper is sent off to don't like your work, it doesn't get published! And there are usually at least four categories: Accept without revision; Accept with revision (editorial review only); Revise and resubmitt for re-review; and DON'T EVER DARKEN MY DOOR WITH THIS DOG AGAIN. In my whole career I have only had about half a dozen manuscripts get the accept as is. Most get the middle two grades.

In my fiction I love a cogent review with a mediocre rating more than a high rating with an illiterate review.


Well, that should spark some controversy

[lex ludite]

In general my experience has mirrored the comments made by e.e. I have also published a number of articles in refereed journals in my other life as a member of the scientific community. However I have noticed that once one has established him or herself in the community, be it scientists, physicians or writers, reviewers are inclined to cut one more slack than is given to those unknown or just begining to build a reputation. This is the down side to the observations set forth by my fellow writer and reviewer. By the way I have to confess that I began posting after reviewing quite a few examples of poor writing, figuring that my stuff was just as good as a lot of the junk that I was reviewing.

[boccaccio2000g]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by e.e. norcod
[B]To be honest I find that writers are the best reviewer's. Realizing that I may precipitate a flame war I have found that Bocca and Lex are among the best reviewers that I have read

Yay!


(I always read the other reviews when writing mine) and they are also reasonably active writers. Woodsman's game is an excellent writer (sometimes even better than Lex or Bocca)

Boo! (just kidding, Woodsie) ;-)


It's probably time that I came forward and revealed my true identity. I am actually Leonard Pinth-Garnell, whom you may remember as the oh-so-discriminating "Bad Ballet" critic on SNL some years ago.

'Reasonably' active writers, e.e.? Ouch! I may not write a lot of stories, but I sure put a ridiculous amount of time into the ones I do write. And write. And write.

It may not show, but I'll bet I've put nearly 1,000 hours into Book II of the Jade Pavilion series.

And me and my ornery sidekick Big Jake has wrote us a coupla long Westerns, too, in our spare time, about a pair of low-life cowpokes, when things in Shanghai got a little too peaceful.

If me 'n Jake was any more active, we'd erupt. ;-)



Lex is my favorite reviewer, too, aside from the nice (and for the most part admirably astute ;-) ) folks who have taken the time to review my stories. Thanks to all who have done so.

Boccaccio

[Garmonbozia]

As a new forum member and new (to the genre) writer, I would like to give a newbie's point of view to reviewing writing and writing reviews.

I have been reading and lurking around this site for quite a while before I found the time and nerve to start writing my own story, which then spurred me to join the forums and start taking more of an interest in others' writing and their attendant reviews.

First of all I would like to say that boy does your ego take a knock when you get a less than glowing review. Yes the average review I got was not scathing, or particularly aimed at my skill (it was indeed quite hopeful when looked at a second time) but that initial stab of "someone doesn't like me" took a while to get over. I have had a few short stories published in another genre entirely and I worked on those for years before submitting and they were accepted right off the bat, so I guess I had no experience of a response that was less than "all praise the talented god writer", which some editors tend to do once your writing has been accepted - or have I been extremely (un)lucky in this regard.

Secondly I would like to agree with many of the comments here in that I NEED feedback for my writing, especially in erotic fiction. This is my first attempt and I am finding it truly difficult to recognise whether I have achieved my goal, to excite and arouse, with my writing. I find I am too close to the story structure itself and have relied on feedback from friends, none of whom are writers, all of whom are subs or doms. Even when I reread something I find myself thinking more on sentence structure and word choice (things I do naturally with my other writing) than on the more important question - Is this tittilating? I am finding erotic fiction a very intriguing genre in which to test my skill. So I for one hope to get hundreds of reviews and would hope they would provide some useful critiques for me, not just the "I loved it" (though they are appreciated) or the "not my cup of tea" style reviews.

Which leads me to my next point. I have not made many reviews but I am going to devote some time in the future to expand my participation of this site by joining the circle of dedicated reviewers. I have found though that I am not interested in reviewing a story I have read, and subsequently deleted from my computer, because it "was not my cup of tea". If it isn't subject matter I am interested in I won't review it. I will leave that to the people who do enjoy that particular theme. My opinion would be terribly biased towards what I think should be happening, rather than critiquing the story itself. I also find myself disinterested in reviewing a story that is utter crap. I wish for it to simply slip slowly out of sight.

Which quite neatly brings me to my last point (geez I'm hitting the segues tonight). I have passed on reading a number of stories here because their rating was low. I have come to trust the ratings system here and with the volume of stories and the limited time I have available, now less since I have started writing myself, I find the ratings system invaluable in seperating the chaff. Anything under a five I will dismiss out of hand, unless of course the synopsis looks too delicious. So I guess I really should spend some time reviewing the crappy stories, if only to help others like me who rely on the ratings system.

I guess I had better shut up now as this is getting as long as some of the stories.

Hope I haven't ranted too much.

Jason

[e.e. norcod]

Dear Jason

Congrats on making the leap from lurker to writer.

Remember, the primary pleasure you get from writing is the act of creation. Having another read it only adds to the pleasure.

I have found that the stuff that I write professionally gets ripped to pieces by the editors and reviewers about half the time. Writing in the non-fiction market is tough.

Keep going at it.

[Laila]

Back to Phoenix's idea of only allowing authors to review; I was reading reviews and replies to a story by Sir Nathan last night, and his idea was that authors should be BARRED from reviewing, the reason being that authors pick apart other authors work and insist that stories be written as the reviewer would have them written, rather than reviewing them for what they are.
Hee, hee, hee!


*lol* well yeah, that is kind of the reason why I seldom review. I hate flattery, feeling all cheezy and stupid if I did write such stuff. But most stories I have read so far just missed one basic idea of fiction: A plot!
I don't say mine would be any better - they probably lack realism (out of a lack of experience) and graphic fetish. Things I try to work on...

Or with female characters - when do or say thing I find just utterly phony I can't even praise dialogs...

But I can't say mean things. And seriously maybe the stuff I miss are not that importaint in an erotic story and that is just my own personal opinion.
*lol* you can see it's dificult.

I personally would rather like to receive constructive critism then flattery or nothing - but I always feel very apprehensive to give it myself...

I'll try in futur :)

Laila

[shadeofnight]

Hello,

Lurked off and on in these forms, but only joined of late. I have been reading the stories here way longer.

I write for 3 reasons :
1. Cause I think people will enjoy reading the story.
2. Sometimes a story is too show a part of myself, I am can describe in spoken words very well.
3. Too see if I can get the complex (or even sometimes simple) consept out of my mind and onto paper and ink, in a way that works.

Since these are the reasons I write, I want anyone to be able to review or comment on a story. I find just as much value/enjoyment in the "WOW" reviews/comments as I do in the "Good start/but needs more passion in part 2".

For the most part most of the people here will never review for a number of reasons, so I see no reason to try to stop anyone from reviewing.

Just a fast 2 silver,
-Shadeofnight