Responsibilities of OL Dominant?

[sub_sequent]

Please allow me to ask the opinion of Dominants on the forum.
I have been asking myself this week about the responsibilities of an OL / LD Dominant. Let me explain.

This week i saw the messing a 'Dom' did to the mind and confidence of a sub. She was totally new to BDSM and OL. He introduced her to play but not much else.

So, what IS the responsibility of the OL or long distance Dominant when dealing with a sub new to the lifestyle?

I asked a Domme. She said to keep the sub safe. But is that all?
vicki

[Austerus]

I would stay away from "try to keep safe" because its very vague and will mean very different things to different people.

I think there's a responsibility to make a sincere effort to do no har and to own one's
Mistakes and shortcomings.

I think there is a responsibility for honesty and transparency.

I think there's also a responsibility to make sure that the concepts of consent and limits are understood and encouraged.

If there is a sincere effort to not do harm, honesty, and a foundation in consent and limits, then I have no problem with people shaping the relationship however they want, whether that is play only or something more intense.

[VeniVidi]

In my opinion anyone involved online should behave as closely as possible to the way they would behave were it face-to-face. Certainly the emotional and mental aspects of our lifestyle apply equally in either case, therefore the responsibilities of an online Dom are more-or-less exactly the same as in any other type of relationship.

So of course I agree with the type of responsibilities that Austerius mentioned. I'll add my own list of Dom's responsibilities, which hopefully are reasonably complete, but I am always looking to learn what else I should be doing. I compiled this list after studying what others have to say so cannot take credit for originality! I'm sure you'll be able to find a similar list elsewhere, and it is always advisable to obtain additional opinions. This is a brief-ish summary (I'm not attempting to write a how-to!!!):

- Set an example by being polite and respectful to others, and ensuring the sub is taught to do the same.
- Demonstrating discipline by remaining controlled and in control of situations, e.g. never being drunk or drugged in a scene. If you get even slightly angry stop any scene immediately and go cool off. (Although I think it is acceptable to show empathic emotion when your partner is upset, for example).
- Be as honest as possible, including admitting ignorance and/or failure - as you expect the same from your sub anything less than this is hypocritical. (I added a note "except don't tell a sub that she is ugly"!).
- Take and show responsibility for your own actions - look to correct mistakes and improve instead of making excuses, for example.
- Teach that respect need to be earnt and never expected, and that a sub is equally entitled to respect (although some who crave extreme humiliation may prefer to be spat on rather than respected I would still say this applies).
- As a Dom you should take responsibility for satisfying the needs, desires, and wants of both of you, which means you must learn your sub's feelings. Also to ensure that no limits are breached. (I have a note to myself not to make it evident if/when doing something for a sub rather than for me!).
- Make sure that the gift of submission is freely and willingly given and can be freely withdrawn. (Although having read a discussion (maybe on this site) about the ethics applicable when a D/s relationship splits, I would opine that for example if an online Dom is paying for their sub's internet connection it would be ethical to terminate that funding if the sub withdrew submission).
- During and after a scene the Dom takes responsibility for the wellbeing (physical and emotional) of a sub. This includes making sure everyone knows the safeword(s) and/or equivalents, and praise/comfort afterwards.
- Ensure that the sub understands the important bdsm lifestyle concepts, including all aspects of the SSC mantra; what constitutes abuse; what a submissive's rights are; etc.
- Encourage the sub to investigate other sources of bdsm information, including opinions which may differ from yours, and especially where your knowledge is lacking.

Finally, as many subs go online to learn or try to experience what they may want to happen in real life, I make it my responsibility (if necessary) to train/teach/advise on things like how to find a matching bdsm partner; safety when meeting someone; what to expect/anticipate that I could not do online; etc.

And as I have only recently started training an online sub myself, this thread has been useful in making me remember what my responsibilities are/will be. Thank you.

Lots of luv VV.

[Austerus]

@VV: I agree with you that those are all probably good signs in a dominant, but I would stop short of calling a lot of them "responsibilities." I think of responsibilities as the things which, if a person failed to live up to them, I would think the person abusive or dangerous. It's very easy for me to get into a mode of thinking my way is the good way and other ways are no good, so I purposely tend to err on the side of being less prescriptive.

As examples, a few things you mentioned that I don't think are necessarily what I would classify as responsibilities:


The idea that people should act the same online as they would face to face seems iffy to me. Why should they? If a person is different online vs off does it mean they are irresponsible?
Some of the best submissives I know have clearly not been taught to be respectful or polite. I don't think any less of their dominants though...their dominants have taught them to be what they want, not what strangers want.
I know people who punish when they are angry. It doesn't mean they lose control, but they want their submissive to be able to feel the anger and disapproval that goes along with the punishment. Is that irresponsible?
Why should the dominant take responsibility for seeing to the submissive's wants and desires? That certainly seems like a valid path, but I think Consent offers a pretty large blanket for behavior between adults. Different people's dynamics may not take the s-type's wants into account at all and still be responsible so long as they are informed, honest, and consensual.


Anyway like I said I think all the things you pointed out are really good signs in a dominant, but I'd be leery of saying that a dominant was irresponsible for not following one or more of them.

[VeniVidi]

@Austerus: you and I obviously have a similar taste for lively discussions, which hopefully people can read and learn from.

Each of the points I made and you replied to are a condensed summary of advice and guidelines. I have a suspicion this is yet again a questions of semantics, or points of view, or even what we have been taught be our parents, and as with the vast majority of things in bdsm what is correct for one person may be incorrect for others.

I have listed the responsibilies that I attempt to adhere to, and I built that list based on what I have gleaned from various sites. In reality as an imperfect human being I do not always stick to them - it is hard to demonstrate control if you are killing yourself laughing at something hilarious that occasionally occurs in the middle of what is supposed to be a serious scene.

But also I have realised that I forgot to mention the keypoint about what we are talkiing about - whatever you do in this lifestyle use common sense - and when you do you will rarely stray.

And reverting back to the original post by the gorgeous vicky what that Dom did was unforgivable.

VV

[sub_sequent]

Thank You so much for these responses, kind Sirs. Please add to it as You see fit.
Please allow me to ask about this in another way.

Is there a 'mindset' that is/may be particular to a submissive? How is that cultivated/learned/taught by the Dominant?
I guess I am wondering about the type of things a Dominant will build 'into' a new sub.
I realise that each Dom(me) is different so the answers might be varied. Im just wondering about some basic thoughts.

v

[Demon_Goddess_165]

To the orriginal point:
I think "Keeping them safe" is acurate if vauge. The Dom(me) *imho* who takes on a new sub, or who is advising a new Dom(me) needs to teach them how to go about things in a safe way. Things like safe words, sanatizing toys, rope work and blood flow/restriction, setting up safe meetings. And to not scare them away from the lifestyle! Everything else is gravy.
As to a mind set..
Everyone is different. I think if you wanted to you could start sorting subs into sub-groups and find commonalities in those groups but there is no one set caracteristic that you'll find in EVERY sub. I also think we're all effected by our first introductions to the lifestyle.

[VeniVidi]

Goodness Vicky that is a hell of a question! There are probably as many different types of sub as there are people on the planet - just reading through profiles (and there are thousands and thousands out there) almost every sub is different. The only common denominator that I've come across is the wish to at least find out what being a sub is like. I'm pretty sure that the same can be said of pDoms with far more experience than I have.

I do try to bring out the best in people - which is how I've been trained (actually that's management training but I apply it to D/s as there's no reason not to!). Is that what you mean by "build 'into' a sub"?

But I think it more likely that I haven't understood your question properly.

And as I was posting this my wonderful friend DG got in first and echoed the point about differences - so I think I'm on the right track at least!
(I particularly appreciated her pun about sub-groups)

VV

[denuseri]

Its a pretty big misconception that it must be the dominant doing all this building and teaching fyi.

Especially with an on line /long distance thing where one or both partners may or may not even be remotely kinky in real life but like totally vanilla otherwise etc.

Additionally its also a misconception that a "relationship" of any kind must be considered outside of the "scene"...(which btw also applies in some real life circumstances as well such as: in a public dungeon during a casual yet monitored -by staff-session with a complete stranger).

[Cumplete Cuntrol]

vicmal96,

I think something also needs to be said for the obligation of a sub to be honest and candid with a Dom. Especially OL, a Dom has no non-verbal cues to go by in order to detect whether the sub is (or might be) misrepresenting 1] their true desires, 2] their true experience level, 3] their true current status.

I first joined the OL community last week. My first night in chat I was approached by subs seeking OL Role Play.

The very first thing I told them was that I had never done anything with OL roleplay before, and I explained to them both how risky it could be. They seemed to think there would be no harm, reassuring Me of their experience, and urging Me to just go ahead and try. I should have refused. My responsibility, I acted in ignorance, I was wrong to have done so. I have apologized.

I am a quick study, however. It taught Me that OL is not very different from RL in terms of safety concerns. I did not know that a strong mental Dom could carry a sub so deep in one brief OL roleplay session, if someone had told Me I might have found it very difficult to believe. I had no idea the sub would become attached so quickly from Online roleplay.

After the scene ended, the sub became honest and confessed having misrepresented all sorts of details to Me. I immediately went into damage mitigation mode, exactly as I would do in R/L if a sub misrepresented and harm resulted. I have done (will continue to do) the best I can to aid recovery.

I have no idea whether I am the Dom to whom you referred, but I might as well have been. Hopefully, subs and Doms can benefit from My mistake and the mistakes of the sub.

For your consideration,
CC

[sub_sequent]

*smiling*
Not at all. I have been thinking back on my first experiences the past (almost) year. And when i was helping this sub, i just needed some reassurance about my ideas and perceptions of a Dom(me) responsibilities.

I absolutely agree that the sub has a responsibility too....maybe i should start a thread about that in the submissives section of the forums.

But i think Your reply highlights something subs easily forget. That mistakes can be made and it can be dangerous. Physically but also emotionally.

v

[Cumplete Cuntrol]

Austerus,

Since reading this thread this morning, I have been ruminating over the differences between Your perceptions and those of VV. I appreciated VV's list, though not comprehensive (and not presented as such) due to the wide variety of subs and Doms, and T/their respective needs/tastes.

I don't believe I (or any Dom) is responsible for every OL sub. I have made no obligation toward any save one. I have not assumed responsibility for any save two, and one of those was in ignorance, but I was honest about My ignorance, at the outset.

I think I agree with Your point, in the main. There certainly is a distinct difference between a responsibility and kindnesses/seemliness. Responsibilities are owed, kindnesses are offered gifts, seemliness may be more pleasant for strangers to observe but is hardly owed. For instance, the wants and desires portion that You mentioned; while I would disagree with You that the wants and desires of the sub should not be taken into account, as the Dom it is ultimately Ours to decide which of these will or will not be fulfilled and when, if ever. These are kindnesses. The punishment when angry is, likewise, the Dom's to decide; there is no responsibility to avoid doing so, although it might appear unseemly to strangers. T/they are strangers for a reason, it is not T/their relationship.

I agree with Your assessment that an accusation of irresponsibility on the part of a Dom ought not to be undertaken lightly. O/one might easily judge from a distance, in ignorance, a situation T/they do not fully understand, which would be irresponsible.

Regards,
CC