Humiliation

[carrie]

Humiliation


Just wondering if others here are into humiliation stories. I'm not referring to Master sub themes as being a submissive indicates that is something they enjoy. I'm referring to stories where an "innocent" woman is humiliated in some way. For instance let's say that "good girl" finally relents to her boyfriends requests to sex ...

At the ripe old age of 19 she was still a virgin. Her boyfriend was getting impatient, almost angry after over a year of dating and still nothing! He takes her home one night and tells her he can't stay in a relationship where he can't show his "love" for her. Worried that she is losing him she finally gives in and he takes her to his bedroom which is well lit. She asks if he can turn the lights off, he says no very firmly. She hesitates, but seeing the look on his face finally gives in. He strips her naked, they make love for the first time. Very tame as it should be, but she's none the less embarrassed being naked for the first time in front of any guy.

Two days later he asks her to come to his place, when she arrives he tells her he has something to show her. She's excited, maybe he's going to propose? He leads her into the living room and motions for her to sit down. He stands behind her and clicks on the television set, and then the video he taped of their first night together. She's shocked, horrified!!! He secretly taped their special night together and there she is on film stark naked having sex for the first time!

Before she can say anything, do anything other than burst out crying in humiliation he breaks the news. "I have this tape posted onto a new website I'm about to open, you're going to be the star". He smiles, she doesn't understand ... "I've already got a couple hundred invitations ready to send out with just one click of the mouse." Mostly they are to my friends, your friends, your coworkers and your family, some are your clients, some just pervs who requested invitations ..." She lets out a loud scream "NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!" He tells her he's willing to shut the website down if she cooperates with him for the night. She's willing to do anything to avoid the humiliation.

He's takes it easy on her, making her masturbate in front of him, she gives her first blow job. She refuses to beg to have him butt fuck her until he says he will refuse. So on the hidden video it comes across as ""Please, please, I beg you to ff-uckk mmyy asss, Pleeasseeee!" Indeed he says "You're such a slut! There's no way I'm going to fuck your dirty ass!" She sobs from the humiliation but to the potential viewer of the video it looks as if she's crying because he refuses.

The next night he invites her over to see the hidden tape from the night before. Blackmail, humiliation, more blackmail more humiliation ... This could lead to her cooperating with some of his very sick perversions.

You're cup of tea? Or no?

[Ruby]

Sounds more like blackmail than humiliation. It takes the whole consenual part out of the equation.

Humiliation might be having to confess to another what you did with your partner the night before, or what you want to do to your partner right now.
Or a dozen other things...

Not my cup of tea because she isn't having any fun. If she starts to enjoy this game, well then, bring it on. For an example, I would refer you to the Powerone stories with humiliation and pleasure:
JOANNA'S FIRST GYNECOLOGICAL EXAM or MAIDEN MAID

Is this something your planning or turning into a full story?

[Powerone]

If you look at a lot of my stories you will find the theme of humiliation in them. Even my first novel called "Teaching The Au Pair to Submit" is based on humilation and submission.

[Aeneas]

Powerone's stories are highly reccommended!
Personally I enjoy stories of humiliation (non scat), blackmail, and nc in general. It shows much more dominance to coerce someone into submission rather than physically dominate them as in violent rape.
Good luck to you if you are coinsidering writing the story yourself.

["Roof"]

Humiliation


Just wondering if others here are into humiliation stories. I'm not referring to Master sub themes as being a submissive indicates that is something they enjoy. I'm referring to stories where an "innocent" woman is humiliated in some way. For instance let's say that "good girl" finally relents to her boyfriends requests to sex ...

At the ripe old age of 19 she was still a virgin. Her boyfriend was getting impatient, almost angry after over a year of dating and still nothing! He takes her home one night and tells her he can't stay in a relationship where he can't show his "love" for her. Worried that she is losing him she finally gives in and he takes her to his bedroom which is well lit. She asks if he can turn the lights off, he says no very firmly. She hesitates, but seeing the look on his face finally gives in. He strips her naked, they make love for the first time. Very tame as it should be, but she's none the less embarrassed being naked for the first time in front of any guy.

Two days later he asks her to come to his place, when she arrives he tells her he has something to show her. She's excited, maybe he's going to propose? He leads her into the living room and motions for her to sit down. He stands behind her and clicks on the television set, and then the video he taped of their first night together. She's shocked, horrified!!! He secretly taped their special night together and there she is on film stark naked having sex for the first time!

Before she can say anything, do anything other than burst out crying in humiliation he breaks the news. "I have this tape posted onto a new website I'm about to open, you're going to be the star". He smiles, she doesn't understand ... "I've already got a couple hundred invitations ready to send out with just one click of the mouse." Mostly they are to my friends, your friends, your coworkers and your family, some are your clients, some just pervs who requested invitations ..." She lets out a loud scream "NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!" He tells her he's willing to shut the website down if she cooperates with him for the night. She's willing to do anything to avoid the humiliation.

He's takes it easy on her, making her masturbate in front of him, she gives her first blow job. She refuses to beg to have him butt fuck her until he says he will refuse. So on the hidden video it comes across as ""Please, please, I beg you to ff-uckk mmyy asss, Pleeasseeee!" Indeed he says "You're such a slut! There's no way I'm going to fuck your dirty ass!" She sobs from the humiliation but to the potential viewer of the video it looks as if she's crying because he refuses.

The next night he invites her over to see the hidden tape from the night before. Blackmail, humiliation, more blackmail more humiliation ... This could lead to her cooperating with some of his very sick perversions.

You're cup of tea? Or no?


Have her to start dressing more like she should have been doing (braless, cleavage shown, miniskirt)---you know, the type of outfit she's been disdanfully scornful of other women wearing. She has to sabotage the "good-girl" that she's been until now and replace her former reputation with that of "VERY easy". The penalty if she refuses is that the mouse-click sends the film to all her family and her friends.

["Roof"]

Sounds more like blackmail than humiliation. It takes the whole consenual part out of the equation.

Humiliation might be having to confess to another what you did with your partner the night before, or what you want to do to your partner right now.
Or a dozen other things...

Not my cup of tea because she isn't having any fun. If she starts to enjoy this game, well then, bring it on. For an example, I would refer you to the Powerone stories with humiliation and pleasure:
JOANNA'S FIRST GYNECOLOGICAL EXAM or MAIDEN MAID

Is this something your planning or turning into a full story?

I think she should not be having fun, HE SHOULD, but not her. Humiliation of her and sexual use/abuse of her is HIS fun. If she wants to mitiage even slightly the [pain infliced on her in the]situation she's forced to be in, she should convincing to him that she is only a fucktoy.

[usedHil25]

I think she should not be having fun, HE SHOULD, but not her. Humiliation of her and sexual use/abuse of her is HIS fun. If she wants to mitiage even slightly the [pain infliced on her in the]situation she's forced to be in, she should convincing to him that she is only a fucktoy.

exactly.

I know my BF/master found me considerably more fun when I was less willing to do the activities he told me to perform. Now that I am willing & generally eager to do them, hes less excited by it.

The excitement of making someone do things solely to prevent another thing from happening is more exciting than a willing partner.

[carrie]

Ruby, let me first say that this is all fantasy for me, a fantasy that I imagine myself in. Secondly, yes, it is blackmail! It's a guy blackmailing a woman into humiliating herself. Humiliation is never consensual unless it's someone who is into humiliation and then I have to wonder if it's more exciting than humiliating for her or him.

Humiliation is something that is "unwanted" not something that you get excited by. I know there are masters and subs that do the "humiliation" thing but quite frankly I don't get it. That's ok though, cause it isn't my fantasy.

This isn't a story I'm in the midst of writing, it was just an example of what I think of as "true humiliation". I guess I posted this because I get so frustrated reading stories that start off with a humiliation theme and suddenly the woman is enjoying it. Maybe my fantasies are sick, but they are more true to life than most of the stories I read.

Thanks to those who understood what I was saying. :)

[alexandra_p27]

Ruby, let me first say that this is all fantasy for me, a fantasy that I imagine myself in. Secondly, yes, it is blackmail! It's a guy blackmailing a woman into humiliating herself. Humiliation is never consensual unless it's someone who is into humiliation and then I have to wonder if it's more exciting than humiliating for her or him.

Humiliation is something that is "unwanted" not something that you get excited by. I know there are masters and subs that do the "humiliation" thing but quite frankly I don't get it. That's ok though, cause it isn't my fantasy.

This isn't a story I'm in the midst of writing, it was just an example of what I think of as "true humiliation". I guess I posted this because I get so frustrated reading stories that start off with a humiliation theme and suddenly the woman is enjoying it. Maybe my fantasies are sick, but they are more true to life than most of the stories I read.

Thanks to those who understood what I was saying. :)

I guess Carrie is right so far. Blackmail and humiliation can go hand in hand because the effect of blackmailing is, that the character has to act without being forced physically. I love this combination. It makes me very horny to read stories about blackmail that end up in humiliation.
But of cause Ruby is right , too. If you think of a girl humiliating herself for her own exicement it could be regarded differently. But the difference is
only slight: you could say she is forced by her own arrousel or something like that.

[alexandra_p27]

things I like:

- verbal humiliation on innocent women incl. forced "dirty talk"
- interrogations, where same kind of women have to confess
lewd experiences and fantasies (I don't like rough cruelty so
much, only for educational purpose, so I prefer themes like
interrogations on a lie-detector)
- women who experience sexual arousal through humiliation
so that they learn to humiliate themselves
- forced sexual thems of all kinks by blackmail, especially when
the "blackmailing one" isn't present.
- forced public exposure (can incl. sexual acts for the public)
- :dunno:

I especially love the psychological side of humiliation, not so much
the acts themselves. Good dialogues are often much more
interesting than cruelty. It really turns me on, if there is sort
of ballance between forcing and pursasion.

One story I read only recently was "Devil's Island" by Balor.
In the reviews he promisses to provide us with new chapters.
But it wasn't so much the story in whole I like to mention, but
the situation when the captives enter the island and get
examined. That is a good piece of humiliating dialogues.

[Satan_Klaus]

As we have moved to the blackmail theme which almost always preceeds humiliation I have a problem to point out: Most blackmail tries to be realistic, "believable" but isn't.

This is a fundamental problem for story authors who try to explain the situation their characters are in and keep up the suspension of disbelief. Personally I don't need the background and reasoning to explain a story; some stories put you right into action without explaining anything at all (many mind control stories for example) but well done "background explanitions" enhance the reading experience because the reader is more inclined to believe that the actions are real (and so is deeper submerged in the story).

So what kind of blackmail/extortion would be believable? Obviously the "look i have photos of you masturbating now strip naked, put that cucumber up your ass and go rape your sister with a broomstick" kind of blackmail is way over the top.

Satan_Klaus

[tmordan]

My very first Master had a discussion with me about the fine line between blackmail and humiliation. I think the conclusion we reached was that humiliation was a subset of blackmail, and could be done without the use of blackmail whatsoever. Most of the humiliating things he did to me, he had me admit that I wanted them, then change his mind and make me ask him, then beg him. Just that was humiliating enough, without what followed - which I asked for.

[Bald_J_and_F]

Somehow we fail to see the connection between blackmail and humiliation. Why is one necessary for the other? Humiliation works very well without blackmail.

[Satan_Klaus]

First, I would like to point out that we are talking about erotic fiction or stories here not about actual "scenes" or part of a real relationship.



Somehow we fail to see the connection between blackmail and humiliation. Why is one necessary for the other? Humiliation works very well without blackmail.


I may have been misunderstood here, what I wanted to say was that stories featuring blackmail almost inevitably include humiliation. I guess it's a natural phenomenon because in the "public" environment of a blackmail story (where the victim is still active in normal society and not confined to some dungeon) humiliation is very easily introduced.

Satan_Klaus

[slave802120]

I thoroughly enjoy writing and reading blackmail stories and Satan Klaus is correct about the necessity of a solid background to stories for them to work. For me, blackmail is all about choices and the humiliation comes from choosing to surrender to the blackmail demands. Often there is an underlying latent desire being brought to the surface (in my fantasies, I mean). But it's a bit like a line I like from an Emily Dickinson poem - "The truth must dazzle gradually".

kinkabella

[slave802120]

[This is a repost of something I wrote recently for the BDSM Library Academy]

There was a very funny Monty Python episode years ago with a sketch called "Let's Play Blackmail". Even though it was obviously intended to be funny, the whole concept of it was very arousing to me.

As a BDSM game, 'blackmail' sort of sat at the back of my mind but nobody I knew in the scene really talked about it much, with most discussions of pseudo-non-consensual BDSM games being about various types of rape fantasy. I know a few couples who have acted out rape fantasies, an example being a D/s couple who agreed in advance to act out a rape scene but then left the actual timing of that to the Dom. It was mildly arousing for me to think about this, but ultimately their stories of how much she fought (violently struggled, like it was for real) proved to be a big turn-off for me.

I like intellectual stimulation and so blackmail types of forced submission are much more appealing. As with rape fantasy, things that need to be done in order to establish some kind of 'consent' and limits without ruining the surprise can be problematic. My hubby and I, once we started talking seriously about trying something like this, came up with a way that enabled consent and negotiated limits to be defined without diminishing the surprise factor at all. This was done by way of a 'code word' -- similar to the way rape fantasies are sometimes acted out, but with a slight twist. To explain this, it's worth briefly mentioning the problem we encountered when we first tried to play the game.

The 'play' partner who had been chosen to participate was a friend of my husband (Mr X) and somebody I had once said was 'the last person in the world I'd like to know about my kinky side' -- hence, an ideal candidate to be the third party required in any blackmail scenario. The problem was this man wasn't in the scene, although he had one or two kinks of his own that he was open about -- foot fetish being one of them. The second problem was it was decided he should 'discover' this little secret of mine 'serendipitously'. In other words, it wasn't simply a case of my husband saying 'I"ll tell Mr X about you if you don't (whatever)." This is usually the way most blackmail stories unfold, but we thought it was a bit too blunt and unimaginative because the anticipation (the best part) could only be maintained as long as Mr X knew nothing at all.

What we decided to do was make the game a bit more interesting by slowly sending Mr X hints. This was done by firstly sending him an anonymous email containing a few small hints and clues about my identity and an invitation for him to 'play a game'. It should be noted at this stage that the act of pressing the 'send' button on that email (hubby made ME do it!) was incredibly arousing! But there was a problem. What we hadn't considered, and what ultimately happened (nothing) was Mr X, because he was completely in the dark as to what was happening, believed somebody was setting him up to commit a criminal offense. Real blackmail is, afterall, a crime in most places.

So here is how we got around it (when we played again about 12 months later with a different Mr X) We created a 'code word' and the first email included it but not much else, except that he was being invited to play a game and I was identified as being the person who would recognize that code. The code (I know it sounds silly, but it was chosen for a reason which I'll explain) was "Serendipity Says..." just like the children's game, Simon Says.

We chose 'serendipity' at the time for a number of reasons. The first was simply because the word itself goes a long way toward describing the nature of what blackmail games are all about -- "the act of making a fortuitous discovery" in this case, about me. The second was the fact it was a code that would be very unlikely to be accidentally mentioned in conversation and thus trigger the game without the full consent of all parties. A third reason was it could be given to any number of Mr Xs and meant I would be constantly attuned to anybody approaching me out of the blue and saying it. You'd be surprised how many times I actually heard the word 'serendipity' come up after that (on television, for example) *lol* The final reason was, if a stranger did approach me and use the code (and remember, they didn't know what the game was about at all at this stage, except it involved me and it was a bit of harmless fun), it was such an innocuous and silly little phrase that if I chose not to play with that person, it would be easy to laugh it off and the person who received the instruction didn't need to feel threatened or embarrassed at all.

I've only ever played this game with my husband calling the shots, so I can't say how effective it would be for anybody wanting to try it solo with a person of their choosing. For me, I think the thrill would be reduced if I was privvy to too much of the plotting detail once the game got underway, but who knows? Anyway, blackmail as a BDSM game is often thought of as 'edge play' in the same way as rape fantasy play but I wanted to share this idea because it shows how it can be more BDSM fringe fantasy fun than hardcore rape fantasy out there on the edge.

kinkabella

[Bald_J_and_F]

blackmail doesn't work if what is being asked of the person that is being blackmailed is worse than what he or she is being blackmailed for. some authors seem to forget this

[Satan_Klaus]

I agree about the need for solid background. Point is: too much detail will bore the reader, too little will make him stumble over the logical gaps that you didn't fill. The middle ground is very difficult to find.

On the gradual thing and the waking of latent desire: The story will certainly run much smoother if the victim is reluctant but somewhat willing.

One of my main questions is how far would someone being blackmailed be willing to go to preserve her secret? Real life blackmail is usually about money to an amount that the blackmailed is able to pay AND continue his usual life. Giving up all you own is asking for too much, the victim would just turn to the police and suffer the exposal of her secret.

Satan_Klaus

PS: Here is a blackmail story I wrote and that was rather well received.
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=3544

[Satan_Klaus]

blackmail doesn't work if what is being asked of the person that is being blackmailed is worse than what he or she is being blackmailed for. some authors seem to forget this


That is certainly true but the commodities traded in erotic fiction are not directly compareable (think apples and pears) what is the value of say : your employment and social standing compared to regular sex with a person you hate?

It's hard to judge such things but there are certainly hard limits what can be asked and what cannot. For example many (bad) blackmail stories I read had the victim bring in a sibbling or lover into the same predicament. My understanding of human nature says that this would be one of the things you would never do. The protective instinct would rather have you "sacrifice" yourself.

[alexandra_p27]

I agree about the need for solid background. Point is: too much detail will bore the reader, too little will make him stumble over the logical gaps that you didn't fill. The middle ground is very difficult to find.

On the gradual thing and the waking of latent desire: The story will certainly run much smoother if the victim is reluctant but somewhat willing.

One of my main questions is how far would someone being blackmailed be willing to go to preserve her secret? Real life blackmail is usually about money to an amount that the blackmailed is able to pay AND continue his usual life. Giving up all you own is asking for too much, the victim would just turn to the police and suffer the exposal of her secret.

Satan_Klaus

PS: Here is a blackmail story I wrote and that was rather well received.
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=3544

1) I think the "running smoothy" of a story doesn't depend on wether the victim is reluctant or willing as such. It depends on the possibility for the reader to understand the inner logic of the actions and reactions of the characters in the story. But in general it might be much easier to write a story providing such inner logic, if the victim is more or less relucant because this stresses the conflict and induces tension.

2) I wouldn't say, to much detail will bore the reader. I heard that there are even people who read Tolstoj.
It just depends on the ability to connect the information with the plot.
I think it is if very uninteresting if you read "he was tall, about 6 feet, had black, ravish hair, dark eyes, smooth skin, and so on."
You can explain this all while the plot is already going on.
For ex.: if you want to describe the aversion of a chararcter to something specific, it might be better to bring in some memories of the character to some situation before where this is obviously.

3) Don't always make it too clear: this will destroy the tension of the confilct.
The reader needs to draw own conclusions from what she/he has already read to what is going to happen. To say it simply: for the reader the tension works always by some uncertainty between (a) what she/he thinks will happen (b) what she/he hopes that it will happen and (c) what she/he slowly understands, what is going to happen while going further with reading. To make this possible a reader needs information about the background of the characters. Otherwise she/he can't develope any idea at all. A simple thing to provide such information without going into detail is using stereotypes of characters, which provide such information because the reader can conclude from other stories she/he has already read so far.

Alexandra

[alexandra_p27]

Let's think about fallowing example:

A girl is unwilling to expose her nude body. She although knows she will have to expose it. The idea to have to do it (and the following act) humiliates her.
(I intend to keep it that simple)

we have a conflict:
a) need to expose
b) unwillingness to do so
--> the story is so far open (content) because the reader yet don't know what is going to happen
--> for the reader the point in the story, when the conflict is shown, induces (or should induce) tension
--> the way the story works depends on the attitude of the rader towards the characters (i.e.: does she/he feel with the character, or want the character to be humiliated, or would rather like to see her/him be saved from the conflict)

Inner Logic: it is obvious, that this works only if (a) the reader has enough information to develope an own idea, who the plot could be going on
(b) if the reader has not enough information to be already sure how it will go on.

This seems to be very clear on tne first sight, but it depends on many factors: what is the characters' attitude to the situation inside the story. The reader can only conclude if she/he has at least a slight idea. This depends although on a the setting: where is the character? Alone at home, at a place where she could might be seen, in public, if in public, on a nudist beach, at a closed group of people who expect her to do expose herself, in a shopping mall, on a stage....?
The reader will think: in the specific situation - is it allowed by the society to expose, if not how far: of cause not in a Kindergarden. But where else and why? In a shopping mall. Something naughty? Why? Is there a certain culture in society that doesn't tolerate people walking naked in public?
And again: why?
Because the society and the people in the community learn: you have to be ashamed if you expose your body to others, especially in places where you shouldn't, like a shopping mall, etc.
A character will be ashamed because she learned this. For a three years old child it could be just nothing to run around in the nude in the public.
But the body of a grown up is something very private. At this privateness is being offended.

And so on.....

To come back to the threads topic "humiliation": the need to do something a character is reluctant to do is fine, but it is not enough
The reader needs further information about why. She/He needs to understand the situation for the character.
Of cause there are many situation where this information can run very short. But this only works because of a simple fact. The reader draws conclusions from his own experiences she/he combines with the plot. This experiences may be real life experiences or be given by other stories, movies, etc.

Just imagine a story about animals that behave like anymals. Not a Disney-Movie. Maybe more scientific. No speaker from the of who says "poor baby tiger had been looking for his mother all day running through the savanna."
Very scientic. I think tension gets lost somewhere on the way because you have no chance to develope any idea about what will happen next.

[Satan_Klaus]

I think I understand what you are getting at. By giving the reader a certain amount of information that enables him to draw his own conclusions as to where the story will go he becomes more immersed because he is beginning to think in the terms of your story.

This principle of course applies to all stories, but in a blackmail story where the victim is shaping the plot with her decision it is doubly important.

Satan_Klaus

[woolfighter]

You put it very clear, but the question is how many stories play with a ( not explicit) willing victim. How often they reach high-points as victims, how does the psych work when the whole universe behaves strangly? I myself love humiliation themes, but only find them erotic if they are forced and in a more or less normal world. I can't see erotisicm in Witches, Wizzards or other kind of - at least for me- irreal characters.
One of my personal favorites -the humiliating training of Emma - does not explain too much why or how but it hints to them.
















As we have moved to the blackmail theme which almost always preceeds humiliation I have a problem to point out: Most blackmail tries to be realistic, "believable" but isn't.

This is a fundamental problem for story authors who try to explain the situation their characters are in and keep up the suspension of disbelief. Personally I don't need the background and reasoning to explain a story; some stories put you right into action without explaining anything at all (many mind control stories for example) but well done "background explanitions" enhance the reading experience because the reader is more inclined to believe that the actions are real (and so is deeper submerged in the story).

So what kind of blackmail/extortion would be believable? Obviously the "look i have photos of you masturbating now strip naked, put that cucumber up your ass and go rape your sister with a broomstick" kind of blackmail is way over the top.

Satan_Klaus

[Satan_Klaus]

Certainly blackmail is subjected to an unwilling or at least reluctant victim. If the victim gave whatever you want willingly you obviously wouldn't need blackmail!

The problem I was hinting at (that I stumbled across as an author) is this: How do you push the victims boundaries in a way that it remains believable that she will fullfill the blackmailers demands instead of turning him in.

Is it only neccesary that the 'dark secret' she is hiding is vile enough to accept anything? That is very doubful.

Many authors like to put their victims through fates "worse than death", so to speak and ruin the suspension of disbelief that way. Thinking in the position of the victim, the reader realizes that the story loses it's touch with reality at that point.
I found that a 'reluctant' victim is much easier to put through such suffering; She is actually liking what is happening and thus rationalizes that she has no other choice because she is blackmailed instead of admitting her own hidden desires.

That takes the 'nonconsentual' feeling out of the story however, which is a huge turn off for some people (not me, I'm fine with 'reluctant' victims).

So how do you go about putting your unwilling victim through anything you want without her turning you in?

A cent for your thoughts.

Satan_Klaus

[woolfighter]

Two things:

First, as I said before the victim always has the choice; if there is no (perhaps hidden) benefit in the victims psyche the story remains unbelievable.

So it should be gradually pushed further, deeper into accepting her fate (without forgetting to gratify her own hidden needs) in a way that the victim ( and the reader) feels the best option is to obey.

Second, the story is always in a kind of parallel universe and is wroten to arouse people not to make them follow the example.

thanks for reading

Wool

[alexandra_p27]

Two things:
So it should be gradually pushed further, deeper into accepting her fate

the story is always in a kind of parallel universe and is wroten to arouse people not to make them follow the example.
Wool

I think that is the point. You must lead her/him down step by step
always providing the one who is in charge with more and worse
information, material, etc. to blackmail with.
On the other hand you can change the attitude of the blackmailed
character by learning to live with the situation. This might be, that
he/she starts to get aroused by it or maybe more realistic just gets used.
But there is a major problem.
The more the character gets used to the situation the less is the
humiliation for her/him

[ProfoundSubmissions]

Humiliation is a point of view, some people find something humiliating but others would find it less humiliating, its all a point of view

[Satan_Klaus]

On the other hand you can change the attitude of the blackmailed
character by learning to live with the situation. This might be, that
he/she starts to get aroused by it or maybe more realistic just gets used.


That's what I meant with "but the story moves more smoothly with a reluctant victim then with an unwilling one". With a reluctant victim you can easily convince the reader that she would be willing to do a lot more then she would logically be willing to do because she is so turned on by the situation that she is not completely in control.


And for unwilling victims:

One of the standard methods of popular blackmail stories is for the blackmailer to use the first "session" to produce better quality blackmailing material. But is that really doing any good if you want to go to go wild with your victim. Loss of jobs and Friends doesn't sound too bad when you compare it to what some of those poor wretches have to do. Framing for a capital crime might work better. If you have good enough material the victim might no longer see the police as his/her friend.

Satan_Klaus

[pejanon]

May I?




Is it only neccesary that the 'dark secret' she is hiding is vile enough to accept anything? That is very doubful.

Many authors like to put their victims through fates "worse than death", so to speak and ruin the suspension of disbelief that way. Thinking in the position of the victim, the reader realizes that the story loses it's touch with reality at that point.
I found that a 'reluctant' victim is much easier to put through such suffering; She is actually liking what is happening and thus rationalizes that she has no other choice because she is blackmailed instead of admitting her own hidden desires.

That takes the 'nonconsentual' feeling out of the story however, which is a huge turn off for some people (not me, I'm fine with 'reluctant' victims).

So how do you go about putting your unwilling victim through anything you want without her turning you in?

A cent for your thoughts.

Satan_Klaus


Here's my TWO cent. :D

I think that 'suspension of disbelief' and 'gradual moves' are mandatory for blackmail/humiliation stories. I would also add: illusion of choice.
We KNOW what will happen - if victim totally refuses her/his life might be ruined, but - where is bm/hum story then? So we believe the author that the used method is and will be working and want to know the what/how of the further stages. Of course SOME level of plausibility must be preserved (and some level of decent storytelling, elements like character build-up). Some stories go really far, beyond "fates worse than death" - like total zooslut/painslut even snuff (the victim, usually sub by now, is made to snuff someone s/he loved). This is of course preposterous but if the downward cline is smooth enough it won't seem more preposterous than opening premises.
"Illusion of choice": very necessary as the old Chinese masters knew. Simple choices (opening part only): "just submit to one more humiliation and you might walk away." Complex: S/he is often given multiple 'choices' among equally humiliating things (and we know s/he will have to submit to all). Then the victim squirms while the voyeurs watch in glee. (Voyeurs: the readers.) :rolleyes:
The victim isn't shaping the plot, s/he is swinging between closed coordinates - for our delight and gratification.
There is ALWAYS some level of consent in humiliation: she is manipulated to flash or walk naked through the mall: manipulated, yes but she must do it herself, no hidden gunmen. If she is dragged - that is not humiliation.
NC blc/hum stories are not real blc/hum stories. Not for me at least. They usually go the way of: what is the next nice thing we'll do to this slavething.
Wow this went much too long. Sorry Something about humiliation really fires me.
Thanks for listening.
Have fun. :)
Pejanon

Oh is there anybody who didn't read Cheerleder Picture?

[slave802120]

I think it's safe to say that most people are exhillerated to a degree by "fear". In a blackmail scenario, that fear exists for both sides of the equation. For the victim, at its most basic level, it's simply a fear of having to make a decision. For the blackmailer, it's the fear the victim might be so afraid they won't make the choice they offer as "the easy option".

Lots of people will say "blackmail is illegal in real life" but to say this ignores the reality that people endure some form of humiliation every day. Very few people are wealthy enough or "free" (in body or spirit) to go through life without having to make the same types of choices that are made by victims of blackmail. Obviously I'm not saying they're the types of choices that send anybodys personal universes spinning out of orbit. Anyone who has ever had to do secretarial work, for example, will encounter tiny humiliations like this all the time. What secretary hasn't had a boss who expected her to make his coffee, for example. I make coffee, if that's what they want, but I don't always enjoy doing it.

If you escalate this idea just a little, you have the boss who likes to stand too close to his secretary/employee. Maybe guys don't understand this, but how close is "inappropriate" and when is a woman supposed to say "you're invading my space"? The answer for this is different for every woman, but it's certainly true that my idea of close and the duration I allow of that might be far longer than somebody who is more assertive than me.

Aside: IRL, I'm a lot more assertive than I used to be, but I also am probably still more "tolerant" of this type of office behavior than many younger women I have worked with. Tolerant by default rather than design.

When you have a blackmail situation like the kinds we write in stories, to be believable all they need to be is a slightly exaggerated version of the small humiliations we face in every day life like the examples above. The blackmailer must remain subtle if he/she is going to lure his victim torward making the choice they want. In the stories I write on this theme, I mostly enjoy it when the demands are just enough to steal a little bit of breath and raise the pulse by one or two beats. Anything more confronting than this -- a serious shock, for example -- puts me into such a confused state I'm incapable of making any decision at all. That's not a good headspace for the victim to be in from a blackmailer's point of view. Their fear is thus raised to a shock level also and they have to then decide whether to scrap their plan, or become more violent to go through with it which in turn takes it out of the blackmail realm and into more heavy non-consensual scenes.

The caveat to all of this is I'm well aware there are blackmailers who don't care one way or the other how they achieve the humiliation of their victims. They're no fun to play with ;-)

kinkabella

PS: The Sadean concepts of "virtue" and "fall from grace" very much are at play in blackmail fantasies. In one of his books (120 Days, I think) he makes the statement (paraphrased) "it's far more enjoyable to dominate one's peers than an inferior person." He also believed there was more fun to be had "disgracing" the virtuous whose falls from grace would always be much deeper, longer and harder than those who might not have had many morals to begin with. I like these types of themes in preference to "the haughty bitch" who is blackmailed because the haughty ones tend not to be so "innocent" and thus there can be a certain sense of righteousness in seeing them punished and humiliated.

[pejanon]

PS: The Sadean concepts of "virtue" and "fall from grace" very much are at play in blackmail fantasies. In one of his books (120 Days, I think) he makes the statement (paraphrased) "it's far more enjoyable to dominate one's peers than an inferior person." He also believed there was more fun to be had "disgracing" the virtuous whose falls from grace would always be much deeper, longer and harder than those who might not have had many morals to begin with. I like these types of themes in preference to "the haughty bitch" who is blackmailed because the haughty ones tend not to be so "innocent" and thus there can be a certain sense of righteousness in seeing them punished and humiliated.


Ah yes, the harder they fall …
De Sade himself, when he was sentenced to death for the first time (allegedly) cried out: "At last, I am completely soiled!" Who could fall harder then he - in his eyes, of course? (He was not guilty of anything except 'crime of speech'.)
Somewhere in Juliette one of his dom charaters gives Marshall's medal (whatever it was) he has just won (bought, actually) to his accomplice-sub to wipe her behind - then proceeds to humiliate her. Who is being humilated - The King? Whole social order De Sade despised, while using every every advantage it gave him? The master (who is utter coward)?

Yes, you are completely right about fear factor and 'stealing just a little bit of breath' but too many authors want to go really far. If they take minute steps - when are they to get there?In ten years?
And I still think that in blackmail/humilation sub-genre staring point is not that imortant - it's the process itself.

Subtle or gross. That's the question. :rolleyes:

Pejanon

[slave802120]

Yes, you are completely right about fear factor and 'stealing just a little bit of breath' but too many authors want to go really far. If they take minute steps - when are they to get there?In ten years?

With me, it depends a lot on the intended audience. If I'm writing for one that wants a stroke story, then I can cut all the detail. But if I'm writing to please myself, I prefer long and slow. I used to be sensitive to criticism for this, but these days I'll console myself with the thought I can't be held responsible for the short attention spans of some readers. That's just me, of course -- and the comment isn't directed at anybody here, of course :)

kinkabella

[prey4me]

I don't see why so many of you are associating --even equating--blackmail and humiliation. Certainly, they can be combined in many plots and scenaria, but they are not equivalent, and one does not necessarily involve the other.

Blackmail is a form of power. If you have compromising knowledge of somebody you can blackmail her. She obeys or faces painful consequences, which could be the payment of money, performance of a service (divulging her company's secret catsup recipe), something humiliating, or just a plain old fuck. If you put a gun to her head of kidnaped her mother, you would have power to make her do the same things!

Humiliation is the experience of doing something (or being seen as) shameful, immodest, or degrading. You can certainly blackmail a character into, oh, riding down Main Street naked on a white horse. Or make her do it because you have her kid hanging by his thumbs from a dungeon rafter, or there's a sniper's bullet aimed at her head....you get the idea.

For whatever reason, and by whatever form of power, force, or coercion, humiliation occurs when a character experiences something that is shameful or degrading.

The two are not equivalent, nor does one have to include, or lead to, the other.

I kind of dig characters who are forced to do something that violates their moral code, and is degrading by violating their sense of modesty. That's part of my thing for the abuse and rape of younger girls and virtuous young women in formal gowns: all that delicate material, so woefully inadequate to keep their prissy little privates covered. One scenario I'm kind of partial to is that of a teenage girl in a bouffant party dress forced to lift it up in front of her family and guests. Her panties are ripped off and she is made to walk around her birthday party and have everybody look at her, maybe kiss her cunt, or something. Then the assailant crudely gropes her, while everybody is (at gunpoint, perhaps?) powerless to protect her. Then she's given the choice to be forcibly raped in front of everybody, or to have the privilege of "privacy" in her bedroom if she'll submit willingly.

Humiliation, abuse, coercion, violation...but no blackmail.

[Satan_Klaus]

[QUOTE=prey4me]I don't see why so many of you are associating --even equating--blackmail and humiliation. Certainly, they can be combined in many plots and scenaria, but they are not equivalent, and one does not necessarily involve the other.


I don't think we are equating the two. The discussion just driftet from humiliation to blackmail because in the context of erotic fiction blackmail always leads to humiliation. Have you EVER read a blackmail story without humiliation? I haven't (and it's not for lack of reading :) ).

Humiliation can well stand on it's own, but blackmail seems to be tied to humiliation, at least in the dirty minds of our authors.

Satan_Klaus

[pejanon]

I don't think we are equating the two. The discussion just driftet from humiliation to blackmail because in the context of erotic fiction blackmail always leads to humiliation. Have you EVER read a blackmail story without humiliation? I haven't (and it's not for lack of reading :) ).

Humiliation can well stand on it's own, but blackmail seems to be tied to humiliation, at least in the dirty minds of our authors.

Satan_Klaus

Right. Being in the power of someone who has compromising knowlege ... is by defintion humilating. While I cuold perhaps imagine a story (or fantasy) involving blackmail but not humilation I realy beleive it is not posible in practice. The two just go together and blackmail stories are often writen with express purpose to explore humilation.
(see kinkabella above for some sublte insights)

Humilation on the other hand can be subdived into groups Of course it highly individual but, at least in fiction, it will always involve other people. First one then more and more to greater joy of drooling readers. And of course you ALWAYS need contrast. What wolud be the point of parading her naked in nudist colony? (If there was something else to see - that would be another thing entirely) But if she was to wear drab (or drag :D ) clothes in the said colony ...

[pejanon]

With me, it depends a lot on the intended audience. If I'm writing for one that wants a stroke story, then I can cut all the detail.

Ah, but what exactly defines a stroke story? Isn't detail all that matters, especially in humilation story AND especially stroke story.

Without details: She waited. He came in, fucked her (or whatever), came, went out and lit a cigar.
Great stroke story, isn't it?

Now as to what details ... :D

[fantazmaster]

I am going to strongly agree with your statement about the necessity of a strong background in order for a blackmail/humiliation story to work.One such story that I find illustrates this princople quite well is"Training Rebecca" by SimplySizzling which of course one may find here in the library.The author here has done an excellent job of building a plausible,realistic background against which Rebecca,the blackmailer's target is humiliated in a variety of situations,all of which are situations that the victim would not normally find herself in and is required to do things on the blackmailer's orders that are well beyond the moral scope of her upper middle class lifestyle.


I thoroughly enjoy writing and reading blackmail stories and Satan Klaus is correct about the necessity of a solid background to stories for them to work. For me, blackmail is all about choices and the humiliation comes from choosing to surrender to the blackmail demands. Often there is an underlying latent desire being brought to the surface (in my fantasies, I mean). But it's a bit like a line I like from an Emily Dickinson poem - "The truth must dazzle gradually".

kinkabella

[Little Pet]

Hello. I am new to this forum, but wanted to share my view on humiliation. I agree with most that blackmail is not something I find arousing. The victim is not a willing participant.

Humiliation is a whole other arena. My arousal cames from doing something, as one person said, I find morally offensive, or something I wouldn't do willingling on my own. I have served many a Master and Mistress who understand the nature of humiliating me.

Some examples of positions I've been put into: Forced to serve as a fuck toy at a stag party for the Master. Each man wrote on my body after using me degrading comments with a sharpie marker. Although most of the physical punishment was limited to slapping my ass and tits, along with pulling my nipples, I was forced to miss two days of work because of where they wrote on my body and the difficulty of removing the ink.

I once served a beautiful Black Mistress who had me act as a servant at a 'tea' party for her and 5 of her friends. I sucked all of their toes, cunts, and assholes, as well taking as multiple dildo fuckings in all three holes. They used large black strap ons so they could punish a white whore for catching the eyes of their men. They took great pleasure in calling me names, spitting in my mouth and on my face, and giving me a golden shower to teach me who was boss. I was slapped in the face, tits, and ass, had my nipples twisted, and beaten with a belt as I crawled on all fours to their amusement.

I enjoyed these and other sessions because I enjoyed being degraded. They were all consensual.

[pejanon]

Welcome Little Pet,


Hello. I am new to this forum, but wanted to share my view on humiliation. I agree with most that blackmail is not something I find arousing. The victim is not a willing participant.

Humiliation is a whole other arena. My arousal cames from doing something, as one person said, I find morally offensive, or something I wouldn't do willingling on my own. I have served many a Master and Mistress who understand the nature of humiliating me.



I enjoyed these and other sessions because I enjoyed being degraded.
They were all consensual.

Blackmail comes in many subtle (and not so subtle forms). There IS I think consensual blackmail ( I know it sounds contradictory) "Being made to do something I wouldn/t willingling do on my own"?
Or how about: "You don't have to do it Pet, but I would be soooo Proud"?

Have fun :)

Pejanon

[slave802120]

Blackmail comes in many subtle (and not so subtle forms). There IS I think consensual blackmail ( I know it sounds contradictory) "Being made to do something I wouldn/t willingling do on my own"?

Blackmail is about choice, so in that sense, to give in to a blackmail demand is to 'choose' that path. This isn't exactly 'consent' and in reality, even if the victim surrendered a little bit to begin with and then changed their mind later, it's still a crime in reality. A good recent example is the case of Cameron Diaz and her charges against the guy who filmed her doing that BDSM scene, which I'm sure plenty of people have already seen. There's a case of somebody who clearly volunteered to do one thing in a certain context, but when the very thing she once chose to do was used later to blackmail her, she had the guy charged, and she won her case. The same with Paris Hilton, although methinks she was more concerned that her 'secret video' was an embarrassment not because she's seen sucking cock in it, but that she is clearly inept at the task. hehe

kinkabella

[pejanon]

Blackmail is about choice, so in that sense, to give in to a blackmail demand is to 'choose' that path. This isn't exactly 'consent' and in reality, even if the victim surrendered a little bit to begin with and then changed their mind later, it's still a crime in reality. The same with Paris Hilton, although methinks she was more concerned that her 'secret video' was an embarrassment not because she's seen sucking cock in it, but that she is clearly inept at the task. hehe

kinkabella

Doing something in private and doing it on film for a lot of sweaty people is not exactly the same cup of tea, is it?
(Paris Hilton was concerned? Wasn't she just putting up the front? hehe)

Anyway I tough this was about fiction? That place where all that beautiful psychological acrobatics can be explored without real blackmailer messing oh so intricately constructed tableaus and scenarios? (I love to do what I hate only if I'm made to do it but I don't want to be made do it consensualy but it has to have at least an appearance of nonconsensuality except when etc…)
You know … the place between sleeping and waking … :D
And in fiction there isn't much choice in the begging. If the victim does not choose to go along … well I'll let her/him to their lives, and all the luck, but sorry, I will go on to next story where the victim submits, at least just a little.
Have fun :)

[slave802120]

Anyway I thought this was about fiction?

Yes, and my apologies if it sounded like I was trying to impose any sort of reality on the discussion about blackmail fantasy. :p

One of these days I might write a blackmail fantasy along these lines:

THE BLACKMAILER

It was a dark and stormy night. My hand trembled as I read the blackmailer's demands. 'I will tie you up in my dungeon and rape all your holes with my humungous, blood-engorged cock!!! You will love it!!!!!! If you don't surrender to my demands, I will post all the pix I have of your naked ass to the Internests!!!!!!!!!! GO TO THIS ADDRESS NOW!!!!!! (123 X Street, Dumbsville)'

"Oh woe! Woe is me! Whatever shall I do?" I cry.

"Call the police," my husband says.

The tone of his voice is flat and disinterested and he doesn't even look up from his cereal bowl or the morning paper in his hand.

"Oh. Yes, I never thought of that," I say.

I make the call to 911.

Later, over at 123 X Street, Dumbsville...

"It was only a joke!" Mr Blackmailer says as he's led away in handcuffs.

"Yeah, that's what they all say, buddy!"

A nosey neighbor peers over the fence and yells, "I hope they rape your puny ass in jail, Mr Blackmailer!!!!!!!!!!!"

The Blackmailer's face glows a deep shade of red. "This is so humiliating!" he wails.

The cops then bundle him into their car and speed off into the sunset.

The End

(c) 2005 by kinkabella

PS: Lovers of the Bret Easton Ellis' book 'American Psycho' will notice the unreliable narrative style of this little fantasy. Lovers of stroke stories should enjoy the overuse of exclamation marks as well. ;-)

LOL!

[pejanon]

PS: Lovers of the Bret Easton Ellis' book 'American Psycho' will notice the unreliable narrative style of this little fantasy. Lovers of stroke stories should enjoy the overuse of exclamation marks as well. ;-)

LOL!

?????????????

You write such beautifull stuff ... perhaps something along those lines?
I guess this is suposed to be funny. Not particulary - American Psyho or not!

If this is your idea of stroke story - you are dead wrong! (See above posts on detals and background.)

Have fun! :)

[fantazmaster]

Hello. I am new to this forum, but wanted to share my view on humiliation. I agree with most that blackmail is not something I find arousing. The victim is not a willing participant.

Humiliation is a whole other arena. My arousal cames from doing something, as one person said, I find morally offensive, or something I wouldn't do willingling on my own. I have served many a Master and Mistress who understand the nature of humiliating me.

Some examples of positions I've been put into: Forced to serve as a fuck toy at a stag party for the Master. Each man wrote on my body after using me degrading comments with a sharpie marker. Although most of the physical punishment was limited to slapping my ass and tits, along with pulling my nipples, I was forced to miss two days of work because of where they wrote on my body and the difficulty of removing the ink.

I once served a beautiful Black Mistress who had me act as a servant at a 'tea' party for her and 5 of her friends. I sucked all of their toes, cunts, and assholes, as well taking as multiple dildo fuckings in all three holes. They used large black strap ons so they could punish a white whore for catching the eyes of their men. They took great pleasure in calling me names, spitting in my mouth and on my face, and giving me a golden shower to teach me who was boss. I was slapped in the face, tits, and ass, had my nipples twisted, and beaten with a belt as I crawled on all fours to their amusement.

I enjoyed these and other sessions because I enjoyed being degraded. They were all consensual.

Yes little pet,I think these experiences definently falls within the parameters of
Humiliation.Btw,you don't happen to have your own website where you are named Princess?

[Little Pet]

Yes little pet,I think these experiences definently falls within the parameters of
Humiliation.Btw,you don't happen to have your own website where you are named Princess?

No, but in the website of my dreams I am called many degrading names when I'm being abused.

[Ranai]

THE BLACKMAILER
(...)
"Oh woe! Woe is me! Whatever shall I do?" I cry.

"Call the police," my husband says.

The tone of his voice is flat and disinterested and he doesn't even look up from his cereal bowl or the morning paper in his hand.

"Oh. Yes, I never thought of that," I say.
(...)
The cops then bundle him into their car and speed off into the sunset.

The End
(c) 2005 by kinkabella

:haha: kinkabella, you rock.

'Oh no!' quoth the erotica fantastica writer, 'It's the dreaded plausibility check!', and :exit: the fantastica writer goes... into the sunset.

Some plots need to shy the plausibility check like a Boggart shies away from laughter.
As erotica fantastica, they can be quite enjoyable though.

Anyway, the plausibility check means 'plausibility within the fictional framework'. As a writer you determine the parameters, the society, the rules, the possible consequences of this or that action or inaction. Blackmail fiction writers don't even need to invent reasons that would make sense in the real world; for the plot to work they merely need to invent reasons that function well in this particular fictional universe, and show the readers how and why they work.

[pejanon]

Anyway, the plausibility check means 'plausibility within the fictional framework'. As a writer you determine the parameters, the society, the rules, the possible consequences of this or that action or inaction. Blackmail fiction writers don't even need to invent reasons that would make sense in the real world; for the plot to work they merely need to invent reasons that function well in this particular fictional universe, and show the readers how and why they work.

This sums it up perfecty.

[Satan_Klaus]

Anyway, the plausibility check means 'plausibility within the fictional framework'. As a writer you determine the parameters, the society, the rules, the possible consequences of this or that action or inaction. Blackmail fiction writers don't even need to invent reasons that would make sense in the real world; for the plot to work they merely need to invent reasons that function well in this particular fictional universe, and show the readers how and why they work.


Certainly true, but most blakmail fiction is set in the supposedly "real" world. Therefore many rules are already set because the reader knows something about the workings of the real world. In a purely fictional world anything goes.

In a world that deviates from ours in small but recognizable ways, the reader can not be sure that every rule that applies here is valid there but it still gives the story a "realistic" feeling because the worlds are so similar.
It is easier for the author to keep up the suspension of disbelief even in "implausible" situation.

Satan_Klaus

[pejanon]

:D
Certainly true, but most blakmail fiction is set in the supposedly "real" world. Therefore many rules are already set because the reader knows something about the workings of the real world. In a purely fictional world anything goes.

In a world that deviates from ours in small but recognizable ways, the reader can not be sure that every rule that applies here is valid there but it still gives the story a "realistic" feeling because the worlds are so similar.
It is easier for the author to keep up the suspension of disbelief even in "implausible" situation.

Satan_Klaus


Yes, within real world. But real in fictional sense. No in real 'real' sense (reality is just to bumpy and upredictable).
And yes, blackmail stories must be most realistic in all the genre.
But I must agree with Ranai, You could place your story in, say, Mars base, invent any absurd initial blackmail wrench and than you .. .

"merely need to invent reasons that function well in this particular fictional universe, and show the readers how and why they work."

Then we're back to humans and their relationships. Without that there's no blackmail/humiliation.

Can't agree that anything goes in purely fictional world. You still need "plausibility within the fictional framework" or if you prefer LeGuin's consistency rule: "No matter how preposterous your world is it must be consistent and you have to stick to it!"
Those "small deviations" can be great! P. Dick used that to keep the reader (and the characters) on the edge and whenever you perform 'reality check' he gives you another jolt. I'm not sure if something like that could be used in blackmail stores - but it would be interesting, certainly.


Have fun.

Pej

Hey, this is supposed to be Humiliation tread. :p

[darkavenger]

This isn't a story I'm in the midst of writing, it was just an example of what I think of as "true humiliation". I guess I posted this because I get so frustrated reading stories that start off with a humiliation theme and suddenly the woman is enjoying it. Maybe my fantasies are sick, but they are more true to life than most of the stories I read.

Carrie, I suppose its about whether its "nc humiliation" or "consensual humiliation". I have written a story entitled Grace's Hard Lessons with blackmail and nc humiliation as themes - the style is intended to be realistic or 'true to life' as you put it. Would love to get your comments on it.

["Roof"]

If you look at a lot of my stories you will find the theme of humiliation in them. Even my first novel called "Teaching The Au Pair to Submit" is based on humilation and submission.

Are you gonna do more (discipline & humiliation) stories?

[Lee Boudine]

I was browsing back through inactive threads and came upon this on with opinions on humiliation.

I have an interest in interrogation: a process in with humiliation plays a very important part. Just look at the techniques used in Iraq and Guantanamo.

Is any one else interestied in reviving this thread ?

[Desperadosong]

I'd sure enjoy reading the origional story .... when and if it gets completed.... ;)

Ds

[Lee Boudine]

arrested as a suspected IRA courier is caught by the British Constabulary and taken to their barracks for ointerrpogation..............................

Will someone write a short account of her interrogation ? Here's her pic for starters. :bondage: