Deconstructing O,

[Mad Lews]

I had the audacity :rolleyes: to post a story several months ago concerning the final fate of O. I was chastised a bit for my crudeness and cruelty and it was patiently explained to me that I just didn't understand the story. This lead to some interesting conversations with my part time proof reader and editor as to both the legality of appropriating fictional characters, and more interestingly Why "The Story of O" is such a literary icon to the BDSM community. I mean Rice's Sleeping Beauty is all right and Hamilton writes an amusing yarn but nothing really comes close to "The Story of O". Part of it's allure is it's one of the first to be widely published, part is the language and sensitivity,. Some would say it's because a woman wrote it I think a good part of it is the way the eroticism is so laconic. Much is said with so few words and the reader is made to imagine the details. I would be interested in other's thoughts on the matter. Mad Lews

[Mobius]

If I am not mistakin, at the end of the story of O in one of alternative endings Sir Steffen wanted to give her to another and O would rather die than leave sir steffen so he abliged her.
So in effect Stoy of O is a snuff story.
So I do not see how you could be crueler than that.

[Mad Lews]

Ahh there is snuff and then there is snuff. but what I was curious about was not the ending or other alternative endings but what makes the story itself so diffrent from other BDSM tales

[Ruby]

Its hard to discuss this particular book because it evokes so many different feelings...

I read your ending and thought you did a nice job of capturing the
way I felt about Stephen.

O, like Beauty, fell in love with her submission.
Beauty fell in love with each master for what
they could give her and teach her. She was a cherished slave
and eventually discovers herself and what she wants/needs and
is willing to pursue it.

But unlike Anne Rice's Beauty, O's relationship with her masters, including Stephen, was especially abusive. She is permanently marked - branded - and as Mobius points out she is allowed to end her life. If you read the other alternative ending, then she never regains her freedom.

With a healthy relationship, submission is a form of its own power.
I often wondered what power O had besides submitting. She didn't
seem to ever say "no".

* Steps away and prepares for the flaming arrows to arrive *

For those of you who haven't read the tale, it is available in text format free on many web sites.

[ProjectEuropa]

I can't say the Story Of O ever did anything for me. I saw the film in France in the seventies but didn't realise it was the Story Of O until I saw the film again on late night TV only last year. I never read the story until a couple of years ago. Maybe I came to it too late and time has rendered it too polite and reserved. Certainly compared to writing you find on this site the Story Of O is a walk in the park! It's obviously an icon but its attraction is still lost on me.

[Mad Lews]

Its hard to discuss this particular book because it evokes so many different feelings...

I read your ending and thought you did a nice job of capturing the
way I felt about Stephen.

O, like Beauty, fell in love with her submission.
Beauty fell in love with each master for what
they could give her and teach her. She was a cherished slave
and eventually discovers herself and what she wants/needs and
is willing to pursue it.

But unlike Anne Rice's Beauty, O's relationship with her masters, including Stephen, was especially abusive. She is permanently marked - branded - and as Mobius points out she is allowed to end her life. If you read the other alternative ending, then she never regains her freedom.

With a healthy relationship, submission is a form of its own power.
I often wondered what power O had besides submitting. She didn't
seem to ever say "no".

* Steps away and prepares for the flaming arrows to arrive *

For those of you who haven't read the tale, it is available in text format free on many web sites.

I have to agree with you that unlike R/L O does not exchange power but revels in surrendering it. Therefore she becomes the perfect (if unreal) foil for the true sadist. (and perhaps the perfect hero for the true masochist).----Mad Lews

[Ruby]

...Therefore she becomes the perfect (if unreal) foil for the true sadist. (and perhaps the perfect hero for the true masochist).----Mad Lews

That's it! Well said. And perhaps the reason why her character remains so beloved long after the tale itself fades into memory.

[Athenna]

I have to agree with you that unlike R/L O does not exchange power but revels in surrendering it. Therefore she becomes the perfect (if unreal) foil for the true sadist. (and perhaps the perfect hero for the true masochist).----Mad Lews

Just like all the legends that has been remebered much better than others, the only factor that keeps this story alive in people's head is .. the DRAMA.

Even in BDSM, similar to normal life, people look up at different characters as role models, and sympathize with them, specially when they have not been treated well for their achievements. Like the female submissive character in Story of O, and Male sub in Venus in Furs. Both are remembered cause of the sad endings.

... And after all, melancholic sad ends effects rather more than happy ones!!

AconitE.

[Mobius]

Yes I am an "O-A-phile" I have the text file on my computer. I have the original movie on DVD. I have several of the serialized Story of O tv shows that were aired in italy

I would love if they did a Good remake of it. The only things that I would not want would to make it a musical. But as god as my witness you watch they will.

Coming to broad way andrew loyd webber Story of O the musical

Not to creepy

[chromedome11]

Coming to broad way andrew loyd webber Story of O the musical

Given all the not-too-subtle BDSM overtones in ALW's musicals, especially Phantom of the Opera, you may well see it, Moby.

[esclava]

I think the differing takes on O and Beauty are quite interesting. O (and the sequel) was probably my first "formal" introduction to BDSM, nearly 30 years ago. At the time, kinky as I thought I was, I recoiled from the absoluteness of it.

I read the first Beauty book about 4 years ago, and found it entirely too cute. Some of it was the writing style, which honestly irritated me more than anything else. Some of it was the over-formality (IMHO). I'm too casual for my own good. :D

One comment that got my attention was equating "abusive" with being marked. I'm not branded (yet) but have several intimate piercings from my Master, and definitely don't feel abused. Just very well used....and valued. Of course, we all have different standards.

Curiously, over the last many years, I find myself identifying more with O than I ever expected (or thought I wanted, for that matter). The deeper Master leads me, the further I seem to want to go. Funny how that works.

I must be doing something wrong, though. I feel like I'm living "happily ever after" instead of something disastrous or melancholy. There are moments when I'm certain I'm getting away with something, and the inevitable "other shoe" will drop, but mostly I'm just grinning like a fool. Yet, when I tell my story, nobody seems to be bored. ;)

[Sir Lanceloth]

reading the story of O left me with a fealing of sadness. I simply cant understand why sir stephen would leave her after he made her perfect. In the text file i have there are given two possible endings:

in a final chapter, which has been suppressed, O returned to Roissy, where she was abandoned by Sir Stephen.

there exists a second ending to Story of O, according to which O, seeing that Sir Stephen was about to leave her, said she would prefer to die. Sir Stephen gave her his consent.

Both endings are sad, and neither works for me. Perhaps thats why it enthralls me so, perhaps i simply cant let O be treated that way. In other words I want to rescue O from that terrible fate, and therefore teh story lingers within me.

[Mad Lews]

there exists a second ending to Story of O, according to which O, seeing that Sir Stephen was about to leave her, said she would prefer to die. Sir Stephen gave her his consent.[/I]

Both endings are sad, and neither works for me. Perhaps thats why it enthralls me so, perhaps i simply cant let O be treated that way. In other words I want to rescue O from that terrible fate, and therefore teh story lingers within me.
O's story is indeed a sad one. She submits with a purity of purpose out of love for Rene and is given away to Sir Stephen. She submits to him with an even greater intensity and passion and is in the end abandoned by him. Was it simply O's chosen fate, a failure of her Masters ( and by extension Reage's belief in the shortcoming of males ), or perhaps its just an attempt by Pauline Reage to bring a moral ending to a tale of what would be considered debauchery in the 50s. The lack of an ending is the books flaw and also what makes it so intriguing to me. I dismiss the sequel as a fraud. It is too different in tone and composition to have been written by the same writer IMHO.

[Sir Lanceloth]

I dismiss the sequel as a fraud. It is too different in tone and composition to have been written by the same writer IMHO.

there is a sequel? and where is it ;)

[Mad Lews]

there is a sequel? and where is it ;)
Actually published 15 years later in1969 it's called Return to the Chateau
and is available on amazon. see if you think I'm right ....

[j]

Would that be the French language version? I have 'only' the English one.

Puh-leeze!


Yes I am an "O-A-phile" I have the text file on my computer. I have the original movie on DVD. I have several of the serialized Story of O tv shows that were aired in italy

I would love if they did a Good remake of it. The only things that I would not want would to make it a musical. But as god as my witness you watch they will.

Coming to broad way andrew loyd webber Story of O the musical

Not to creepy

[Mobius]

Would that be the French language version? I have 'only' the English one.

Puh-leeze!

Are you refering to the txt file?
Or the Story of O the series.

Both are in english. I do not speak french nor want to.

No word on the story of O the musical.

"Beet me Beet me, tie me up sir stephin" da ta da tra la :)

[Aurelius]

Actually Mobius, you may be interested to know that Mozart wrote that more than 200 years ago, in Don Giovanni. Although I don't suppose that would stop A L Webber from his usual recycling.

Seeing a young and coquettish soprano (as Zerlina usually is) singing this at the opera is very sweet indeed :) Trust me, they're not ALL fat ladies :)

Batti, batti, o bel Masetto,
La tua povera Zerlina;
Staro' qui come angellina,
Le tue botte ad aspettar.
Lasciero' stracciarmi il crine;
Lasciero' stracciarmi gli occhi;
E le care tue manine
Lieta poi sapro baciar.
Ah! lo vedo, non hai core!
Pace, pace, o mia!
In contenti, ed allegria,
Notte e di vogliam passar.

IN ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
Beat me, beat me, dear Masetto,
Beat Zerlina at your will;
Like the patient lamb I'll suffer,
Meek and mute, and loving still.
Rend those locks you praised so highly;
From your arms Zerlina cast;
These fond eyes in rage extinguish
Fondly still they'll look their last.
Ah! I see, love, you're relenting-
Pardon, kneeling, I implore you!
Night and day, to you devoted,
here I vow to err no more.

[Sir Lanceloth]

that little poem just made mozart an interesting topic for me vow, that has newer happened before :D

[Sweep]

I'm an 'O' fanatic. I've got the original book and the (crummy) sequel and both the Just Jakelin movie and the 10 part serial.

I really love the story and more than anything else it got me into BDSM 30 years ago.

BUT - it suffers from the recurrent theme that BDSM leads to sadness and despair. That is a pity. This site attests the the fact that there are great many BDSM lovers (very likely the majority) who have been happily together for years.

It is almost impossible to get a story of BDSM involvement that has a happy ending. I tried to do it in my story "Karen and the Torture Club" in which I wanted all parties to enjoy the experience which is how it must be for the relationship to endure in the longer term.

[j]

The series? Perish the thought. The only true sequel is Reage's 'Retour a Roissy', which she wrote with the specific intent of deconstructing 'Story of O' - removing the glamour and revealing the pettiness of characters like Sir Stephen, a pimp and crook.

Of course, to many readers it made the story even more exciting...

The movie was glossy trash.


Are you refering to the txt file?
Or the Story of O the series.

Both are in english. I do not speak french nor want to.

No word on the story of O the musical.

"Beet me Beet me, tie me up sir stephin" da ta da tra la :)

[DomSadistMan]

Hello A/all... New to the forum, but drawn to the discussion as moth to flame.
I discovered my nature when I read the Story of O at a tender age... fortunately, I had found conventional porn prior to that, so I have never worried about whether or not I am a natural Dom or an example of those who would say BDSM literature can corrupt. (Well, maybe it can... lol)

In any case, my contribution to the discussion is information regarding the sequel and the relationship between the two. The original author, whose name escapes, me at the moment, wrote Story of O as a love-letter to her lover... who, we can presume, was at least somewhat Dom...

The publisher, who I believe was either the lover or a close associate, truncated the story. It is true there is a different tone to the remainder of the story, but that is not unusual, since if it is to be believed, the intro to the second part (titled "A Girl in Love"?) states the sections were penned and posted serially, with no editing.

The "endings" discussed above were inserted by the editor, not the author!

Without giving away the contents of the second tome, it is true the tone of the tome changes, but not enough to influence me to suspect it is not written by the same author.

There was also a completely unauthorized "part II" that turned O into a Dom! It did have some interesting scenes... but not my cup of tea.

The original cut of the 70s film was quite different from what is on DVD. If anyone is aware of that issue and is aware of where to find that cut, please contact me...

The ten part mini-series I found very nice, and that brings us to some of the reasons why Story of O has had such persistence... The competition, by comparison, is practically puerile portrayals of non-stop sex. Story of O has a story... not a great one, disjointed, but definitely a step above a blog.

Don't get me wrong, I get off on every other (heterosexual) chapter of Rice, etc., but with Rice the comparison is extreme... Beauty versus a conventional title such as Exit to Eden (not her best) or the Lasher series... shows the difference between porn and erotica.

Oh, and I put in my vote for Laura Reese, too. Anyone read her? Wow. My vote for a latter-day "Reage", even if she feels compelled to hide her proclivities in detective stories....

It has been a pleasure, glad to have discovered this spot.

Master Scott :)

[Mad Lews]

Hello A/all... New to the forum, but drawn to the discussion as moth to flame.
I discovered my nature when I read the Story of O at a tender age... fortunately, I had found conventional porn prior to that, so I have never worried about whether or not I am a natural Dom or an example of those who would say BDSM literature can corrupt. (Well, maybe it can... lol)

In any case, my contribution to the discussion is information regarding the sequel and the relationship between the two. The original author, whose name escapes, me at the moment, wrote Story of O as a love-letter to her lover... who, we can presume, was at least somewhat Dom...

The publisher, who I believe was either the lover or a close associate, truncated the story. It is true there is a different tone to the remainder of the story, but that is not unusual, since if it is to be believed, the intro to the second part (titled "A Girl in Love"?) states the sections were penned and posted serially, with no editing.

I believe she was saying they were posted to her lover serially, this all took place in the late 40s early 50s before the story was published


The "endings" discussed above were inserted by the editor, not the author!


That's a new one on me. Pauline Reage even refers to her lack of an ending and the two alternatives which she "allowed in a sentence" in her somewhat rambling introduction to " Return to the Chateau". I always felt she was attempting a symmetry when she offered two beginnings that weren't really a beginning and two endings that weren't really an ending.



Without giving away the contents of the second tome, it is true the tone of the tome changes, but not enough to influence me to suspect it is not written by the same author.

I'd have to say the fact that the second book was published almost 2 decades after the first, might have a bit to do with the change in style and temperament. The affair that spawned the first book had most likely ended, and affairs of such passion rarely end well. The passage of two decades had changed Reage for better or worse. It is telling that she refers to her former self as a "Girl in Love" in her long-winded preamble.




Oh, and I put in my vote for Laura Reese, too. Anyone read her? Wow. My vote for a latter-day "Reage", even if she feels compelled to hide her proclivities in detective stories....
It has been a pleasure, glad to have discovered this spot.

Master Scott :)

I loved Reese's topping from below until she threw in her moralistic ending. Still even De'Sade was known to hide behind morality, just look at "Justine"
It is a pleasure to have you join the conversation. Don't be a stranger

Mad Lews

[pejanon]

I believe she was saying they were posted to her lover serially, this all took place in the late 40s early 50s before the story was published



That's a new one on me. Pauline Reage even refers to her lack of an ending and the two alternatives which she "allowed in a sentence" in her somewhat rambling introduction to " Return to the Chateau". I always felt she was attempting a symmetry when she offered two beginnings that weren't really a beginning and two endings that weren't really an ending.



I'd have to say the fact that the second book was published almost 2 decades after the first, might have a bit to do with the change in style and temperament. The affair that spawned the first book had most likely ended, and affairs of such passion rarely end well. The passage of two decades had changed Reage for better or worse. It is telling that she refers to her former self as a "Girl in Love" in her long-winded preamble.
Mad Lews


Yep I am an O-phille. :) Maybe checking an 'overliterate' (if there is such thing) but informative www.storyofo.co.uk will clear some of factual cunfusion on Dominic Aury (Reage).

Two ending are of course the same - O dissapears.

Maybe the fascination with O has something to do with style of writting. The softcore, let's call it veiled style allow some people to see it as almost gruesome whilt to other it's just a walk in the park. It's neither - why we just cannot leave it alone (the book, not O - who'd wanto to leave O alone?)
and take it at face value? It does not have to have any 'reasons' hiden meaning, motives etc. There was a story thant Simon De Bovoar (sic) wrote it to 'get back' o Sarte for treating her as piece of trash. Intelectual rubish!

What I'd like to know: is it possible that it was purely fantasy as Aury claims - response to a challenge 'women can't write good erotica' and a love letter of course. It's just too informed, rituals to worked out' etc. Or is it veceversa - so many thing coming from O? If so she really spoiled me in my budding youth!
Have fun!

[slave802120]

Everything you wanted to know about O but were afraid to ask can be found here:

http://www.storyofo.co.uk/

It's probably THE most complete site about her and her creator, Dominique Aury (aka Pauline Reage)

kinkabella

PS: Oops! I missed reading the previous post. :o

[Mad Lews]

Everything you wanted to know about O but were afraid to ask can be found here:

http://www.storyofo.co.uk/

It's probably THE most complete site about her and her creator, Dominique Aury (aka Pauline Reage)

kinkabella

PS: Oops! I missed reading the previous post. :o

A loverly and overly inclusive ite which might tell you more than you ever wanted to know about O's story and her creator (asuming you believe Dominique Aury was Pauline Reage) but it still leaves a few quests for the audience.
I for one want to know the "Why?" more than the who and where.Not the why of her writing the tale but Why the audience still grows.
Mad

[pejanon]

I for one want to know the "Why?" more than the who and where.Not the why of her writing the tale but Why the audience still grows.
Mad

Any of the following ring a bell?

It's kind of magic. :dunno:

It has a reputation. At any given moment somebody is saying: "You want to know about that D/s stuff … let's see … ah yes read that Story of O."

I have several friends (all female) who simply adore O. They are all (alegedly) vanilla and claim to see is as a 'love story' or 'parabole on quest for love', but who knows what goes bump in the dark ;) . The book has turned on more people than any other. Again reputation.

It has just the right blend of hard and softcore.

I don’t see O as perfect victim but who wouldn't want to save or damn (as the case may be) O?

It's kind of magic! :D

Have fun

Pejanon

[Mad Lews]

Any of the following ring a bell?

It's kind of magic. :dunno:

It has a reputation. At any given moment somebody is saying: "You want to know about that D/s stuff … let's see … ah yes read that Story of O."

I have several friends (all female) who simply adore O. They are all (alegedly) vanilla and claim to see is as a 'love story' or 'parabole on quest for love', but who knows what goes bump in the dark ;) . The book has turned on more people than any other. Again reputation.

It has just the right blend of hard and softcore.

I don’t see O as perfect victim but who wouldn't want to save or damn (as the case may be) O?

It's kind of magic! :D

Have fun

Pejanon

Come on Pejanon,
You know it's not polite to make people think on Momday morning. :p
By the way, saw your intro and a belated welcome. I'd never guess you were ESL your command of the Queens own is better than most.
Yours
Mad

[pejanon]

Come on Pejanon,
You know it's not polite to make people think on Momday morning. :p Mad

You have trouble thinking? I don't believe that for a nanosecond. Perhaps NOT thinking … (I have trouble with that) :p


By the way, saw your intro and a belated welcome. I'd never guess you were ESL your command of the Queens own is better than most.
Yours
Mad

WOW! Thank you. It means a lot. (A moment of sacred silence, eyes cast upward almost blushing :o .) Then I check my first post in this tread. What a mess (even without the spell chkr) So I don't really believe you … but thanks a lot.

But, O is waiting.

Any suggestions ...?

[Mad Lews]

WOW! Thank you. It means a lot. (A moment of sacred silence, eyes cast upward almost blushing :o .) Then I check my first post in this tread. What a mess (even without the spell chkr) So I don't really believe you … but thanks a lot.

But, O is waiting.

Any suggestions ...?

Ok my mysterious friend, I can take a lot of abuse, really, but now you question my sincerity. You have piqued my interest. Your profile offers no real hint as to your location. Fair enough but I would love to know what you claim as a native tongue.
I've worked with ESL students as literacy volunteer and I've played host to exchange students with years of English classes but none came close to your command of the language. So what pray tell is the story. Did you spend a goodly chunk of your youth in an English speaking country, attend an English only school, Oh god tell me you're not really from Quebec. Please do tell inquiring minds want to know.
Oh and O can wait a bit longer she's not going anywhere
Mad

[pejanon]

So what pray tell is the story. Did you spend a goodly chunk of your youth in an English speaking country, attend an English only school, Oh god tell me you're not really from Quebec. Please do tell inquiring minds want to know.
Oh and O can wait a bit longer she's not going anywhere
Mad

So many questions … ahem, well …
I've lived in so many places that I don't remember just now where it all started. But I lived in Kuwait (much before shit started flying around) and in Pakistan (before shit started flying around THERE) but I lived in India several years/lifetimes (not much shit but some certainly, no avoiding that seems the stuff followed me, but such a fascinating place got to go back) And Bangkok, and Baghdad (shit-umbrella was not necessary at that time) and Lebanon and Sweden and Italy and … so many fascinating places.
Yes, High School at University of London (courtesy of British Council)
But that's NOT how I learned my meager English.
I learned it from James Bond.
Lo …
When I was a kid one of those Sean Connery movies came out and I was totally flummoxed and flabbergasted. I just HAD to read the books. So a picked Goldfinger - only available in English at that time - and it was mostly gibberish to me. But, I tried. I knew some textbook English - that kind where you eventually learn to read The Bard but if you talk to a 20$ working girl you end a paying 50$ for a hand job. And I had a crummy little dictionary. So I held my spinchter real tight and went to my schoolteacher for help. (NO it was NOTHING like that, stop snickering, she was a tough graying old lady.) She helped indeed. She gave me her very own M-W. Encyclopedic Dictionary - English-to English! - And some instructions. I was to keep reading no matter what, trying to get the gist (that's the word?). I was to use dict. ONLY five times per page but I could search it all I wanted to understand explanations. I got to call her ONCE a day to ask something and to use it wisely. (Latter she changed to four dictionaries but two calls, smart old cookie, thanks Mrs. G--.)
Well I did it. I took me maybe four month and that's eternity plus to a kid.
Latter I read all Bond books (today I read such books in under four HOURS). And I read umpimillion OTHER books on all manner of things wondrous. And movies. And whatever else came before my greedy eyes.
But first/last of all I met and loved/hated/fucked A LOT of people - that is the only way to learn.
So this was a true story (I swear to god) how James Bond and Mrs G-- taught me to LEARN. Grab a tiger by a tail, hold tight, and move forward until you are holding it by ears. (And no, I certainly do not hold englishtiger by ears.)

And my keyboard is steaming, hope this answer answers some unanswerable things. :p

Have fun!

[Mad Lews]

..........

[Mad Lews]

So many questions … ahem, well …
I've lived in so many places that I don't remember just now where it all started. But I lived in Kuwait (much before shit started flying around) and in Pakistan (before shit started flying around THERE) but I lived in India several years/lifetimes (not much shit but some certainly, no avoiding that seems the stuff followed me, but such a fascinating place got to go back) And Bangkok, and Baghdad (shit-umbrella was not necessary at that time) and Lebanon and Sweden and Italy and … so many fascinating places.
Yes, High School at University of London (courtesy of British Council)
But that's NOT how I learned my meager English.
I learned it from James Bond.
Ahm Pejanon,
It seems to me you visit a spot and shortly thereafter the shit flies. You do realize that Flemming was writing fiction right?


So I held my spinchter real tight and went to my schoolteacher for help. (NO it was NOTHING like that, stop snickering, she was a tough graying old lady.) She helped indeed. She gave me her very own M-W. Encyclopedic Dictionary - English-to English! - And some instructions. I was to keep reading no matter what, trying to get the gist (that's the word?). I was to use dict. ONLY five times per page but I could search it all I wanted to understand explanations. I got to call her ONCE a day to ask something and to use it wisely. (Latter she changed to four dictionaries but two calls, smart old cookie, thanks Mrs. G--.)
Well I did it. I took me maybe four month and that's eternity plus to a kid.
Latter I read all Bond books (today I read such books in under four HOURS). And I read umpimillion OTHER books on all manner of things wondrous. And movies. And whatever else came before my greedy eyes.
But first/last of all I met and loved/hated/fucked A LOT of people - that is the only way to learn.
So this was a true story (I swear to god) how James Bond and Mrs G-- taught me to LEARN. Grab a tiger by a tail, hold tight, and move forward until you are holding it by ears. (And no, I certainly do not hold englishtiger by ears.)

And my keyboard is steaming, hope this answer answers some unanswerable things. :p

Have fun!
Wow so many answers and intriguing details. Someone more discerning than I might have noticed that whilst imparting all this information you did manage to avoid answering the question originally posed.
"Fair enough but I would love to know what you claim as a native tongue"
Fortunately I didn’t notice so you don’t have to worry about me badgering you for more info.
Do Take Care
Mad

[pejanon]

Wow so many answers and intriguing details. Someone more discerning than I might have noticed that whilst imparting all this information you did manage to avoid answering the question originally posed.

Fortunately I didn’t notice so you don’t have to worry about me badgering you for more info.
Do Take Care
Mad

Well I'm certanly glad we've settled shit-flying issue. :D
Now, what's that cat up to now. Hey, O here kitty kitty ... damn, so elusive ...

Flemming was writting fiction???? WAAAAAH! :( You just punctured the pink bubble of one of my last illusions. And I tought that there was "still good in the world" ... well, screw him ... I'll settle for The Duke, he wasn't real was he?

Heve fun
Pej

[slo18]

I did a book report on the story of O way back in highschool for the life of me I cant find it anywere. I remeber that when I read it I felt an odd combination of disgust and pitty and envy for O. disgust at the fact that she refused to put her safety as a priority pity that in the end ( my copy didnt include a fulltelling of the ending only an over view of one of the alternets) she is abadaned at the chatue(sp?) and envy that she had found her idealized Master. I also found that neither of the males int the story ( cant remeber either of there names maybe i ought to re read the story) to be at all likeable or to have any redeaming charicteristics. to abadon a slave after puting so much time and effort into makeing her into someone who at least to my mind could no longer fend for herself struck me as compleatly with out heart. half way though the story i was so disgusted with her treatment at there hands that I wanted I threw the book across the room and wanted to tear the pages out. but oddly couldent seem to stop reading. so in the end while I may of hated the story it did it its job and kept my attetion enthraled. sence then i have called it a story I hated to read but couldent stop myself. and thats most likely why i havent read it sence. I dont want to finish it and cry for her. and incase any of u are wondering my book repot got an F the teacher latter pulled me aside and explaned that report was fantatic worth an A but that the materal was to adult for someone of my age. :hairpull: thats what i get for being a precosis 17 year old.

[Mad Lews]

I did a book report on the story of O way back in highschool for the life of me I cant find it anywere. I remeber that when I read it I felt an odd combination of disgust and pitty and envy for O. disgust at the fact that she refused to put her safety as a priority pity that in the end ( my copy didnt include a fulltelling of the ending only an over view of one of the alternets) she is abadaned at the chatue(sp?) and envy that she had found her idealized Master. I also found that neither of the males int the story ( cant remeber either of there names maybe i ought to re read the story) to be at all likeable or to have any redeaming charicteristics. to abadon a slave after puting so much time and effort into makeing her into someone who at least to my mind could no longer fend for herself struck me as compleatly with out heart. half way though the story i was so disgusted with her treatment at there hands that I wanted I threw the book across the room and wanted to tear the pages out. but oddly couldent seem to stop reading. so in the end while I may of hated the story it did it its job and kept my attetion enthraled. sence then i have called it a story I hated to read but couldent stop myself. and thats most likely why i havent read it sence. I dont want to finish it and cry for her. and incase any of u are wondering my book repot got an F the teacher latter pulled me aside and explaned that report was fantatic worth an A but that the materal was to adult for someone of my age. :hairpull: thats what i get for being a precosis 17 year old.

Dearest slo18,
Not that seventeen is a babe, though I'm sure you were/are in the colloquial sense.
Good lord a High School book report. That had to take guts, no one has that much youthful naivete, admit it you were toying with your English teacher.
To the point. You did have it 90% right back then. O was an object to be pitied, Sir Stephen was despicable for being unwilling or unable to fulfill O's needs, and Rene was just pathetic and weak. O was perhaps not quite as hopeless as your first reading suggested to you but like any tragic heroine in a bloody romance she was locked into her fate by her very nature.
Maybe if you could find the time and were so inclined you might reread the story. It's relatively short. I'd be interested in how your perceptions have changed now that you've been exposed to other material in the realm of BDSM literature.

Yours truly, Mad

[Sir Lanceloth]

well i agree that rené was pathetic, i am not so sure about sir stephen. I kinda liked the way he trained O, and i didnt pity O but found her to be brave and strong. It is true that in the sequel sir stephen commits murder, O is degraded to an prostiture, but im just not convinced thats the right ending (yeah i want it my way :) ).

Perhaps the ending was just her (the author) way of excusing to the world... oh no ive made an hero of an submissive lol. Well in my world subs are heroes and heroines!

Yes they do treat her harshly, but isnt that what she wants? she does find out that she desires the whipping in the end, so why not give it to her? im running out of time, ill check back later. im sure we all can agree that it is an damn fine story :)

[pejanon]

Hi Sir L


well i agree that rené was pathetic, i am not so sure about sir stephen. I kinda liked the way he trained O, and i didnt pity O but found her to be brave and strong. It is true that in the sequel sir stephen commits murder, O is degraded to an prostiture, but im just not convinced thats the right ending (yeah i want it my way :) ).

Are you refering to Return to Roissy or Mad Lews of Sir Stephen's Confessions?
(Don't remember Return very well - always seen it as somehow fake, even if Reage did write it.)



Perhaps the ending was just her (the author) way of excusing to the world... oh no ive made an hero of an submissive lol. Well in my world subs are heroes and heroines!
Right on! That's it. Most of the best stories are about the subs NOT about the masters. :D
I was always found suprising views that saw O as a victim. From the point of storytelling at least, O is the ONLY REAL character in the book - "tragic heroine in a bloody romance" - as some like to put it.. Everthing is happening because of her, not the other way around.
At Roissy she is just 'made' to ah, participate. Then when Rene turns out to be a wimp he is, up pops Sir S.
THEN when he cannot take her further - her comes Anne-Marie et cetera. In a way O is USING them.
Even in Lews Sir Stephen's Confessions O FORCES Sir S to do what she wants. We might not be happy about her choice but it is certainly legitimate one.

(Strange book, isn't it? No matter how much you analyze it - it turn yet another cheek. And I'm not sure we can agree completely - THAT'S why it's so good :D )

Have fun

Pej

[pejanon]

I also found that neither of the males int the story ( cant remeber either of there names maybe i ought to re read the story) to be at all likeable or to have any redeaming charicteristics. to abadon a slave after puting so much time and effort into makeing her into someone who at least to my mind could no longer fend for herself struck me as compleatly with out heart.

And Hi slo18, :)
I almost agree with this. It's not very popular view, Sir Stephen (one of the guys whose names you can't remember :D .) being such a grand-meister and all.

If you do take your time to reread it you will certanly see other aspects of the story! That's why it is so intiguing and more than worth all the reports! Right on!

Have fun,

Pej

[slo18]

Not that seventeen is a babe, though I'm sure you were/are in the colloquial sense.
Good lord a High School book report. That had to take guts, no one has that much youthful naivete, admit it you were toying with your English teacher.
posted by mad lews (yes I still havent figured out how to do the qoutes thing)

ok yeah I was haveing some fun with her she was so prim and propor and after the einglish teacher i had for the last year and half who was much more fun and open I was used to a much more open and free exchange of ideas. einglish class with him ( first teacher ) often turned into a debate on ethics or a discussion on philosphy. I also liked the fact that he didnt care so much about a persons spelling as he did the ideas that person expressed. I hope it made her blush.

I think I will read it again. it only took me a day to read it the first time

[Mad Lews]

ok yeah I was haveing some fun with her she was so prim and propor and after the einglish teacher i had for the last year and half who was much more fun and open I was used to a much more open and free exchange of ideas. einglish class with him ( first teacher ) often turned into a debate on ethics or a discussion on philosphy. I also liked the fact that he didnt care so much about a persons spelling as he did the ideas that person expressed. I hope it made her blush.

I think I will read it again. it only took me a day to read it the first time
Just hit the reply buton inside the messege box you're replying to. The box will come up with the message inside quote boxes you just add your responce below and people will be impressed that you know your way around a thread. :cool:
Mad

[Sir Lanceloth]

Hi Sir L



Are you refering to Return to Roissy or Mad Lews of Sir Stephen's Confessions?
(Don't remember Return very well - always seen it as somehow fake, even if Reage did write it.)



i referred to the published book. The first chapter and the second ("return to the chateau" and "the story of O").

To the peoble commenting that Sir Stephen just left her. I must say that the ending of the story seems wrong to me, and as if it was just thrown in at the last moment as an apology (you cant make an happy ending to something so vile). Think about it, sir stepehn had sent her to marie for further training, then upon achieving that goal he just dumps her after she is just the way he wanted her to be. That doesnt make sence to me. Also the ending isnt writen as an story, just as two or three sentences which shortly describes what happens. Not alone that, there is also more than one possible bad ending.

I think she (the author) felt the dilemme the filmproducers felt when they made "the secretary". They had a lot of problems getting support to the film. The reason was that when peoble asked: when does she get cured of this? They replied "she doesnt", which im afraid doesnt fitt well with "normal peoble".

So because im not really convinced of the ending, in either book, i will not judge the characters from the ending given. Instead i will judge them from what they did in the first book "the story of O" before the ending. And from that i dont hold any "grudges" against sir Stephen, but do find rené to act a bid odd by just giving her away like that.

just me substituting reality for my own image :)

[Mad Lews]

Right on! That's it. Most of the best stories are about the subs NOT about the masters. :D Pej

I couldn't agree more. subs are much more interesting than Masters. Then again it could just be that we're more interested in subs. I suppose to get a real perspective you'd have to ask some subs.



I was always found suprising views that saw O as a victim. From the point of storytelling at least, O is the ONLY REAL character in the book - "tragic heroine in a bloody romance" - as some like to put it.. Everthing is happening because of her, not the other way around.
At Roissy she is just 'made' to ah, participate. Then when Rene turns out to be a wimp he is, up pops Sir S.
THEN when he cannot take her further - her comes Anne-Marie et cetera. In a way O is USING them.
Even in Lews Sir Stephen's Confessions O FORCES Sir S to do what she wants. We might not be happy about her choice but it is certainly legitimate one.

(Strange book, isn't it? No matter how much you analyze it - it turn yet another cheek. And I'm not sure we can agree completely - THAT'S why it's so good :D )

Have fun

Pej

Yup strange...:confused:
It has always been my contention that in an exchange of power the giver (the sub.) maintains control over the relationship with the receiver (the Dom.) So it's natural (to me) that O would control the ending of her relationship with Sir Stephen. That is why I tried (with mixed results) to show the story as Sir Stephen's failure, not O's triumph.
Did you even remember writing this Pej?:p
your registered madman
Mad Lews

[pejanon]

zzzzz... hrmpf? oh O? Ok ....



I couldn't agree more. subs are much more interesting than Masters. Then again it could just be that we're more interested in subs. I suppose to get a real perspective you'd have to ask some subs.

Yes - I would like to see some comments from that perspective, too.


However it seems to me that many of the best BDSM books were written by subs anyway (real or I-wish-I-was or just in fantasy).

AND - at the moment I cannot remember good story/novel dealing with in depth profile of Dom/mme.. (ok, bring on stick and stones ...) O is certanly NOT one of those.

Wish someone would prove me wrong on this.





Yup strange...:confused:
It has always been my contention that in an exchange of power the giver (the sub.) maintains control over the relationship with the receiver (the Dom.) So it's natural (to me) that O would control the ending of her relationship with Sir Stephen. That is why I tried (with mixed results) to show the story as Sir Stephen's failure, not O's triumph.
Did you even remember writing this Pej?:p
your registered madman
Mad Lews

Well - i write A LOT of things.... So....:D

Mad - you story makes perfect sense (sensible? Well...;) ) However - you KILLED O! In my book one does not do that to such characters! Why didn't you kill Rene for example: Sir S wants to stick it to him but cannot so - he kills him and Rene is happy to take it? Or, he offers substitute? (They use O as substitute anyway)

Oho! Real strange book! Make you think REAL strange thoughts!:eek:

A note on Sir S dumping O - actualy it isn't so rare (in fiction al least). THE TRAINING itsef is main objective - onc its done - new one starsts.
Often the books will use the first trainee as as help in training novices - but the lane line stays...


romantic wildman and aspiring madman

Pej

[masterk]

Does anyone know where I can buy the DVD in the UK?

[masterk]

Does anyone know where I can buy the DVD in the UK?

[Mad Lews]

Does anyone know where I can buy the DVD in the UK?
I guess not, sorry

[Nikita]

I guess not, sorry

*snicker* Try eBay.

[Mad Lews]

Actually Amazon.com.UK has it for between seven and twenty pounds
http://www.amazon.co.uk/

[Satan_Klaus]

It has been said before that the men of 'the story of O ' are a sad lot and the reader feels pity for O because she is left in the end. But maybe that is one of the main points why O captures the mind of the dom reader. For me, the protection instinct is a strong factor in my D/S thinking (Even if it is myself who put the girl into her helpless position in the first place). So because there is no man in the story who will protect and take care of O, the reader is enthralled to do so himself in his mind.

Satan_Klaus

[Mad Lews]

It has been said before that the men of 'the story of O ' are a sad lot and the reader feels pity for O because she is left in the end. But maybe that is one of the main points why O captures the mind of the dom reader. For me, the protection instinct is a strong factor in my D/S thinking (Even if it is myself who put the girl into her helpless position in the first place). So because there is no man in the story who will protect and take care of O, the reader is enthralled to do so himself in his mind.

Satan_Klaus

You may be on to something, the instinct to protect the "damsel in distress" may not be so far removed from a desire to see distressed damsels, even if one must apply the switch themselves. (Or in Rene's case have someone do it for him whilst he watches):rolleyes:

[gagged_Louise]

Psychologists have sometimes suggested that the damsel-in-distress fantasy theme is somehow based on the Oedipus complex: the bound woman represents Mom whom the boy is trying to win over and protect from his evil father. Now, the point whether the oedipal fixation actually exists, and in what sense, is a critical bone of contention among psychoanalysts too, and in any case that theory doesn't explain why girls feel thrilled by seeing bound and helpless women on tv and so on.

I think you're on to something in that Story of O invites an instinct to protect her, even if it's a hopeless one, but the way the story is told it also invites identification with her. What O feels when she's bound, whipped and used is never described, so if you're a sub you're compelled to imagine for yourself her pain and the way her mind and soul turns to find release in being used and tortured.

[Mad Lews]

Psychologists have sometimes suggested that the damsel-in-distress fantasy theme is somehow based on the Oedipus complex: the bound woman represents Mom whom the boy is trying to win over and protect from his evil father. Now, the point whether the oedipal fixation actually exists, and in what sense, is a critical bone of contention among psychoanalysts too, and in any case that theory doesn't explain why girls feel thrilled by seeing bound and helpless women on tv and so on.

I think you're on to something in that Story of O invites an instinct to protect her, even if it's a hopeless one, but the way the story is told it also invites identification with her. What O feels when she's bound, whipped and used is never described, so if you're a sub you're compelled to imagine for yourself her pain and the way her mind and soul turns to find release in being used and tortured.

Dear gagged_Louise,

You present an interesting interpretation of the DID reflex most males exhibit. Males do tend to interact in a hierarchical manner while females prefer (dare I say) bonding. This means that “normal” male maturation involves a testing of one’s place in the hierarchy, usually by rebelling against the patriarch at some point. I suspect that has little to do with the matriarch in most cases.

The ‘instinct’ to protect the weak, is at its root quite possessive, (at least speaking for myself) though gentlemanly behavior and chivalrous codes try to mask this. From the basic biological POV the male’s only claim to his progeny is through possession of the woman that bears them.

The thing about O though, the reason I started this thread, oh so very long ago, is that I sense she is flawed, deeply and fatally, and that is the reason the story had no workable ending. I’m just not sure what that flaw might be and I’m very open to suggestions.

Mad Lews

[tessa]

The ‘instinct’ to protect the weak, is at its root quite possessive, (at least speaking for myself) though gentlemanly behavior and chivalrous codes try to mask this. From the basic biological POV the male’s only claim to his progeny is through possession of the woman that bears them.
This is a rather fascinating idea to me. I have never heard it presented quite like this. I do appreciate it. And it comes from you, Mr. Mad. I do enjoy what comes from you. :)


The thing about O though, the reason I started this thread, oh so very long ago, is that I sense she is flawed, deeply and fatally, and that is the reason the story had no workable ending. I’m just not sure what that flaw might be and I’m very open to suggestions.
Dare I have one? A suggestion, that is. I'm not referring to that chocolate candy sitting so invitingly on my kitchen counter. I'm not. I'm not. I'm NOT!!~sighs~

I read "O" several years ago, when understanding any of my basic wants and desires was impossibly elusive. I do remember feeling greatly frustrated while reading it, feeling as if O was not being utilized to the fullest extent possible, leaving her as frustrated as I felt. And then the ending...I think I threw the book across the room upon completing it. It just wasn't right to leave a reader so lost in a moment. But reading your words, Mr. Mad, the thought that O was just too flawed for the author (whomever she may or may not be) to be as lost for an ending as I was in it, well, that makes sense to me. Perhaps the author, not being flawed deeply enough, had no way to complete the character of O herself, therefore leaving the ending of the book flawed in it's own irreprable way?

You did say you were open to one, although I'm not at all sure if what I had to say is suggestion or not.

But (and isn't there always one?), this tale stays with me, frustrated bugger that it is. Here's the reason "O", the story, is forever in my mind-

She ceased resisting and, crestfallen at the idea of having been found wanting in the presence of Sir Stephen, she repeated, this time almost in a whisper:

"It's not true, I swear it's not true."

Without uttering a word, without so much as a glance at Jacqueline, Sir Stephen made a sign to Rene to let O go, and to O to go into the other room. But on the other side of the door O, who was immediately wedged against the wall, her belly and breasts seized, her lips forced apart by Sir Stephen's insistent tongue, moaned with happiness and deliverance. The points of her breasts stiffened beneath his hand's caress, and with his other hand Sir Stephen probed her loins so roughly she thought she would faint. Would she ever dare tell him that no pleasure, no joy, no figment of her imagination could ever compete with the happiness she felt at the way he used her with such utter freedom, at the notion that he could do anything with her, that there was no limit, no restriction in the manner with which, on her body, he might search for pleasure. Her absolute certainty that when he touched her, whether it was to fondle or flog her, when he ordered her to do something, it was solely because he wanted to. Her certainty that all he cared about was his own desire, so overwhelmed and gratified O that each time she saw a new proof of it, and often even when it merely occurred to her in thought, a cape of fire, a burning breastplate extending from the shoulders to the knees, descended upon her. As she was there, pinned against the wall, her eyes closed, her lips murmuring "I love you" when she could find the breath to say them, Sir Stephen's hands, though they were as cool as the waters of a bubbling spring on the fire coursing through her from head to toe, made her burn even hotter. Gently he released her, dropping her skirt down over her moist thighs, closing her bolero over her quivering breasts.
"Come, O," he said, "I need you."

I didn't understand much at the time (still don't :o ). But I understood this.
Completely.

Thanks Mr. Mad, for the gentle push in this direction. In the spirit of coming clean (which is a difficult thing for a woman like me to do ;) ), I saw this thread the very first week I joined up here at the Forums. I was much too much of a newbie to even attempt a posting. Actually, I still feel that same way. But desirous necessity is quite the motivator.

Always a thrill, Mr. Mad. (Lews, you certainly make that so as well.)

tessa :wave:

[Mad Lews]

A cool wet tongue crosses her burning cheeks. A kiss planted on the heat draws an involuntary shiver. Why? Why would he who causes pain then heal her throbbing bottom? He feels no need to explain to her; maybe it's simply because he enjoys seeing her tremble.

tessa,

Go ahead and have that chocolate (ONLY ONE!)

I understand your frustration with the characters. They are all flawed as real characters should be. That isn't really my problem with the book. What you have pointed out is (I think) one of O's strengths. She absorbs the needs of others and finds comfort and purpose within them. Yet like a used sponge she is being constantly discarded by those who should cherish her. My immediate question is why? If it were just happenstance I'd say it was her choice in partners (and yes she always had a choice.)But it's a list of every significant person in her life. All use and discard her; Rene, Jacqueline, Anne Marie, eventually Sir Stephen and (in one or maybe both endings) even herself. I've come to suspect the flaw is O's. Then again it might just be hard to write a "Happily ever after" ending for a book on BDSM and a life of sexual slavery.
Your thoughts...

Mad

[tessa]

I thought I posted to this already. Goodness, I can be such a blonde sometimes. ~slowly licks at the chocolate off the candy as I compose myself~


She absorbs the needs of others and finds comfort and purpose within them

I think what you said here, Mr. Mad, Sir, is exactly why O is discarded so often. It is draining (no pun intended, but double entendre welcome) to be the focus of and source for such need. If the others had not stepped back away from her, she would have used them up as completely as she was used, just in a highly different and concentrated form.

(Why did that last part make me think of dishwashing liquid? :confused:)

Not so much a flaw of O's as it is an intensity of being that is difficult for others to sustain? Just my thoughts.

tessa :wave:

[Mad Lews]

I thought I posted to this already. Goodness, I can be such a blonde sometimes. ~slowly licks at the chocolate off the candy as I compose myself~



I think what you said here, Mr. Mad, Sir, is exactly why O is discarded so often. It is draining (no pun intended, but double entendre welcome) to be the focus of and source for such need. If the others had not stepped back away from her, she would have used them up as completely as she was used, just in a highly different and concentrated form.

tessa :wave:


Lost in thought here,

Hey Tessa,

It struck me as you commented, I've always felt O was fatally flawed and that was why the story couldn't be finished and I was searching high and low for that flaw. I think mayhap we've nailed it here. O is a Succubus! A creature brought to life by the needs of others who then drains them of their needs and lusts leaving them (in Rene's case) a shriveled husk or (in Sir Stephen's case) hopelessly infatuated and unable to pull away.

I must ponder this a bit more.

Yours
Mad Lews

[gagged_Louise]

Interesting Lews, this would imply that O could be seen as almost a femme fatale - if the story hadn't been overtly about BDSM (and if you're right, and you could well be) the interplay between her and the men would have had something of that "dangerous and beautiful woman" motive in it. Lawrence Durrell's Justine has a kind of similar angle to it: the glorious and mysterious woman comes across as a Goddess of eastern sensuality dangling the romantic young writer Darley at her fingers, while he thinks she is more or less the prisoner of her high-status marriage, but as the book and its sequels move on it turns out she may have had other motives for the affair....hmmm...

[storyofO]

is there something like a roissy anywhere?

[Ozme52]

Presumably so... websites too. Google roissy for starters.

[Mad Lews]

Roissy France is 30 odd Kilometers NE of Paris near Charles De Gaul airport. De Gaul airport did not exist in 1950 which was when O was written and published. The Town was out in the country, now it is a midsized city.

Chateau and Chateau de Roissy societies are abundant and can be searched for on line. A google search of Roissy France will yield a lot of aeroport info.

Yours
Mad Lews

[leo9]

Roissy France is 30 odd Kilometers NE of Paris near Charles De Gaul airport. De Gaul airport did not exist in 1950 which was when O was written and published. The Town was out in the country, now it is a midsized city.


Some online friends of ours took in the locations as part of a holiday in France. They discovered that today, Samur (the location of the Domme's mansion) has a jazz festival as its claim to fame. He took a photo of her posing in a Festival teeshirt beside the road sign saying ROISSY, and she made Xmas cards of it with the message "My Master took me to Roissy and Samur and all I got was a lousy teeshirt."