The ethics of playing with a newbie.

[just_ine]

I was reading an experienced Dominant's thoughts on the ethics involved in playing with someone new to BDSM.
I never even considered that there would be an ethical question that arises and have spent a few weeks mulling it over.

Consent is the the most imortant thing to consider. Can someone who has no real incling (and can't have it either because of lack of experience)of the deep emotional intamacy that can come from a submitting, truly give their consent? Even warning them of this connection cannot prepare them for the New Relationship Energy (NRE or as some call it sub-frenzy) that can and in most cases does occur.
So, if they can't understand the implications, how can they truly consent?

Also, if You ~do~ go ahead an play with a newbie, do You teach him/her kneel, or collar his/her during play, or any number of those things Doms let us do(and we Love having done to us) knowing how powerful those symbols of submission are. Again, the question of truly being able to give consent of something they cannot have a true understanding of.

On the other hand, all of U/us were new at some stage and someone taught us.

How do You approach the negotiations with a newbie? Is it in any way different to negotiating with an experienced submissive?
Do You have Your own guideline of what You will and won't expose a total newbie to in the first few months?
Do You discuss sub-frenzy with him/her before playing? Or before embarking on a new relationship?


I often hear the stories of some sub's first experiences and it seems a heart-breaking parting of ways is almost par for the course. Could it be because these things aren't discussed or (heaven forbid) considered by the Dominant?

Many thoughts...perhaps jumbled.
I would appreciate any insight.

[Solis]

Good morning, sweetie.

You've asked good and serious questions. I've been pondering them as, doubtless, many other have. I'd like to avoid a hasty or glib answer, which is why I haven't said anything yet. I mention this just in case you were feeling that folks didn't think your query worthy of response. I know that it is, and suspect others do, too.

More soon,

Solis

[RacerX]

Well,

You'd (I'd) approach it the same way you'd approach anything of that nature (like dating someone who's never really dated, or had much/any sexual experience before).

You take it step by step... You get to know the person, their likes and dislikes and you make a judgement call as to what they can 'handle'... and you introduce them to 'stuff'...

(imho) I'd treat it the same way as with someone who's never French kissed before, or done oral, or whatever...

It's a mix and match- what she's into vs. my experience with that, what I'm into vs. her 'thoughts' on that... and just.. being sensitive and taking things one small step at a time... It's never wrong to do 'not enough' and leave them wanting more, lol.... No particular guidelines.. depends on their interests, and how they respond to some initial lighter stuff....

RE: 'First sub's experiences'- yeah, well.. that's (for me) just maybe people not understanding that (imho) D/s relationships have all the same factors in them as regular bf/gf stuff in then, -plus- another layer on top of that... Harder to find a 'close match' than regular vanilla relationships...

Plus also, probably, some 'unawareness' of the Dom, and also perhaps some 'lack of self-knowledge' of the sub... (fantasies not always being quite like real life and some 'undiscovered territory')...

And there you go-

-Rx

[Mrs-Sett {Kuve}]

As noted from those above, certainly a thoughtful consideration. All of us were new at something and at sometime. Giving consent, for me, refers to understanding what I am offering and what I would expect or like in return. Hence communication is a prevalent, discussion, getting to know each other. I would consider this as deeply important within a D/s relationship as I deem this more appealing, personally.

When with another within the relationship, it would come down to whether the other’ person really cared? Regardless of bdsm, consider those that of a one night stand, they want little except a brief encounter. This is what you suspect, and require, then fine, if not don’t go there. When another is taken into the wonderful world of what can achieved, it requires a dynamic to form, to exchange thoughts and knowledge that certainly necessitates trust of those involved. Those that want a ‘one’ night would not want to know’ the other, just their needs, emotional, physical, or psychologically met, with no consideration of the other involved.

Therefore the ‘newbie’ must and should consider carefully. What is required of them and do they feel secure. If in doubt, don’t do it, in my mind. Yes they may be new to the life style but you wouldn’t want to take a taxi home with a stranger covered in blood wielding an axe and a menacing smile.

The actual play’ should be as determined, safe, sane and consensual. So make a choice, if wrong know you thought this through and move on to another that is able to provide this love and security.

As with all things in life you live and learn?

Regards Sett

[just_ine]

The common denominator seems to be (very) open communication. It lays a solid foundation.
I look forward to more views as each answer has already started to 'unmuddy' the water for me slightly. I thank You for each response.

Please may I add another question? Would You as a Dominant do a scene with a brand new submissive? (Thus as a Top and not part of a relationship? I have previously met a Dominant and that is what he enjoys, meeting new subs and 'initiating' them into BDSM)

I look forward to learning more.

[RacerX]

Well...

Every are going to have their own answers.. but for myself-

I don't really feel that I 'do scenes'.. I am just me, doing what I do... I'm not performing, it's coming from a more natural place... But anyway, play with a brand new submissive? Sure, why not? If no one played with new people, then new people would never get played with.. and that's sad.

Sure, why not? There's something sweet about being the first to try to find those "Mmmm... " spaces that turn her to jelly (and seeing them for the first time)... and also, I suppose, trying to answer from an Authentic/Honest and Open place.... something about not having to worry about being judged by her previous experiences, previous Doms.. (of course, I can hold my own in many areas, and could use a little practice in others) but, generally speaking, not having that be a factor at all is interesting in it's own right....

And why, if it's with a new sub, does that mean that's it's automatically top/bottom? I've played with complete newbie, and yet was still in the confines of a relationship... (perhaps not a completely solid one, ie- still a new one.. but still, it wasn't just 'top/bottom'...)

What's wrong with that?

-Rx

[TheDoctor]

An interesting question... and I have a perspective yet described here.

Me? I am a sadist and a sensation Dom. I am married, very happily, to the woman that I feel is my other half. I am in no need of a girlfriend. What I don't have, because my wife is also very dominant, is someone to hurt. Because of this, the vast majority of my play has no sexual element to it, outside the obvious erotic nature of BDSM play anyway.

I don't want the 'Mmmm's, I want the Ouch-Do-That-Again's.

That said, I will most certainly play with a newbie, for a wide variety of reasons: First and foremost has already been mentioned... I am not looking for a relationship, and though the first time is special, it rarely leads to the one you will settle with for the rest of your life. I like being the one to introduce a new sub/bottom to the lifestyle because I have no vested interest in keeping them in that lifestyle... if we play and she decides it's not for her, then I haven't just lost my playmate AND my mate in the same go.

Secondly, Everybody has to be new at something...being new at something is no reason not to try it... I know what I am doing and (as mentioned) I have no ulterior motives, which pardon if this sounds arrogant, makes me the perfect doorway into the lifestyle. Now.. I WILL take far more precautions with a newbie than with someone I've played with many times before, but that doesn't mean I will hold back. As long as she is breathing regularly, can still tell me her name, and wants more, I will give more. I will take her as far as she wants to go, within reason. All that said, there are certain types of play I'd never do with a newbie... like cutting or fire play.

Thirdly... I almost feel it's my responsibility. There are a lot of flakes in the lifestyle... on both sides of the slash. Newbies make such easy prey for experienced predators, so I like to give any newbie I find some perspective. If I can get to them first. then four sessions later the subject will know her (or his) tolerances, will know what areas of play they like and what they don't, and they'll know that they don't have to tie themselves to one person in order to occasionally get spanked.

Now I know many of you ARE looking for the relationship side of things, and on that I'd say: If I had been having sex with a woman for some time... long enough to know her body well, then yes, I'd give her her first scene. On the other hand, if I don't know her at all, then I'd rather it be one or the other at first,.. either BDSM or intercourse, but not both at first.

Finally... even if I did find a subbie that I felt I wanted a relationship with... even if I fell in love with her and wanted her at my feet nonstop... I'd still not offer her a collar for a long... long time. I would never considering collaring a newbie in any way short of a protection collar. I certainly wouldn't want her fostering any ideas of me being her 'One' or her "Only'.

[TheDoctor]

Well...
I don't really feel that I 'do scenes'.. I am just me, doing what I do... I'm not performing, it's coming from a more natural place...

I applaud your drive for individualism, but the way you frame that kind of makes it seem like you are saying that because you don't do 'scenes' that for some reason that makes your style of play more natural than that of those that do. I don't think that's what you meant, but it's the way it comes across. For me, and I think for most, 'scene' is the word used that describes the transition from rest to action. Outside of the confines of a 24/7 relationship, there really does need to be some clearly marked boundaries and keeping your play confined to a scene is the easiest, safest, and most negotiable way of making sure everyone is getting what they need. I don't feel as if I'm performing when I am in a scene, nor do I feel like it is unnatural.

[Solis]

In general, I tend to be a cautious soul. That's not a virtue, it's just a fact.

And so, in general, I tend to be cautious when approached by subs, new or otherwise. That caution is fed by three beliefs:

1. subs hope that dom/mes will win - on whole, they need a strong partner, haven't yet found one and are (desperately? definitely?) hoping that you'll be the one. And so, they're looking for the opportunity to let us win. That can be dicey.

2. subs need to believe that they'll be safe - on whole, they know that what they're doing feels risky. Almost all have been hurt before, both by vanilla partners who don't "get" their needs and by dom/mes who have betrayed them. Some despair. Some resort to a sort of "play only" mode. Others raise the best shield they can, hoping that there will be someone who gives them reason, finally, to cast it aside.

3. there's no way of earth for them to understand how profound their surrender might be. I mean, really. If you've been doubting your sanity or normalcy for a long time, if you've been questing for a place but with dimming hope, wouldn't the prospect of acceptance - of embrace - be utterly disorienting? In what world would you have predicted that, after doing something hard, the appearance of the two simple words "good girl" would cause tears to well? Here's a thought experiment: go tell a girlfriend exactly what it's like to be spanked. Tell her that you were intentionally bratty, hoping to provoke it. Tell her what it's like to bare your butt, hands shaking. To be drawn across a lap, perhaps one arm twisted behind, ankles kicked wide. To wait. And then spanked, a steady rain of swats, none stunning but each building. The sting that becomes a burn, hotter and hotter until your mind begins to unhinge - thoughts scatter, the feeling becomes too intense, you overload, pain becomes something else, time spirals rather than flows ahead, words become meaningless, articulation impossible. And you drip and weep and your mouth seeks flesh to embrace.


Go ahead. Tell her. And wonder whether your reaction at the telling (a certain difficulty breathing, mayhap) or hers (uhh ... gawping) is odder.

I might, of course, be wrong about all that. I am neither female nor sub, omniscient nor telepathic. If so, little would delight me more than to hear about the world in others' heads. Ancora imparo.

Where does that leave me? Cautious but deliberate. I try to think ahead, if not to the seventh generation then at least to the seventh month. In general I imagine setting a strong foundation or, if another already has, of reinforcing the foundation. There are, I think, two foundational elements in a D/s sort of interaction: faith and focus. A sub needs to learn that s/he can depend on you. The only way I know to teach that lesson is by living it: by being utterly, implacably reliable. I meet every obligation, fulfill every promise, reward every submission ... and carry out every threat, unfailingly. Faith grows. But focus - in a world of endless demands, constant stimulation and the illusory promise of multi-tasking - is equally important. When I am with my partner, I expect that the rest of the world fade from consciousness. No regrets about the past, no other tasks in the present, no anxiety about tomorrow: there is here. There is now. There is us. And that's enough. And physical actions - rituals, really - can create the necessary psychological sanctuary. (I wrote, long ago, about my amazement at learning of Machiavelli's elaborate rituals, undertaken before he entered his library, to calm, center, humble and open himself.) There might be a quiet period before logging on. A breathing exercise. An unbuttoned shirt. A physical pose - legs spread, hands palm down on the thighs, eyes on the screen. Other electronic devices disabled. Other tabs closed. The door to the room closed, so that the door to the spirit might be opened. Each feeds the growing sense of sanctuary.

The keys are consistency (s/he knows the rules, knows they may mature but won't vanish, knows how to execute them, knows that execution brings reward) and incrementalism (where expectations are, at first, intrusive but not overwhelming then grow as she does).

And so, in my solipsistic little world, there can be interactions with the inexperienced. Those interactions can (eventually must) involve ritual. Those rituals must grow, if the relationship is to. And they must grow in the direction of increasing intrusion on the sub's psyche, which is to say they must lead them to embrace ever more profound submission.

Which, by the way, is a buttload of responsibility, anxiety and work for the dom/me. On average, we make 3.74 boneheaded mistakes a day in the course of running our own lives. Add the responsibility for running some slice of yours. Then multiply it by the multi-task failure coefficient (1.42, if you care to know - doing two things at once triggers 1.42 times the mistakes of doing them separately, an utterly convincing statistic that I just made up but that the Amish validate when they say, "the hurrier I go, the behinder I get") and the result is ... ummm, 3.74 + 2.0 times 1.42 would be ... many, many mistakes.


Which is my apology, in advance, for anything offensive or erroneous in the text above plus a sort of warning about the grief that dealing with me inevitably entails.

How what it's worth,

S.

[just_ine]

Thank You for each answer. It highlighted, for me, different aspects.

*Communication.

*Be upfront about what You seek....mmmmm's or ouchies....one 'scene' or a long(er) term relationship.

*Slow going.

*Enlarging of the new submissive's knowledge base and giving experiences that add to their own self-knowledge. Self-knowledge that will not only provide a harnass to protect them from predators, but also provide compass to where their kinks (may) lie.

*Being deliberate in education, in pulling the submissive closer with tasks/rituals

These were the points that stood out for me personally.
They confirmed some things I suspected and raised some issues I want to spend some more time thinking about.

A great big thanks to Each.
just_ine

[Solis]

I'd be pleased to learn what eventually comes of your reflection dear. You ask good questions and, I suspect, will find original and subtle answers.

As ever,

S.