View Full Version : Hackers play rape on gamers - fun or sick humor?
GTA 5 Online players are virtually raping each other, should we be OK with this?
As Grand Theft Auto V Online hackers get better at modifying the game's code to do their bidding, instances of nude avatars running around naked raping others in vineyards are on the up.
Several players have reported others coming up to them in-game, locking themselves to their characters and initiating pelvic thrust animations from which there is no escape, with videos of the online 'attacks' being uploaded to YouTube.
The trend was labelled "disturbing" by The Huffington Post and the videos "too inappropriate" to embed by The Telegraph, but in a gaming series that has for years seen players gleefully maim, decapitate and bludgeon each other, is this outrage justified?
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/gaming/gta-5-online-players-are-virtually-raping-each-other-is-this-ok-9667198.html
I see several issues here:
One is the quite practical one that it is annoying to have your game ruined by some hacker attacking a character on to your character which you cannot then get rid of.
Secondly, they do it mostly with females, and if you have been raped, this would definitely destroy at least your game!
Thirdly, is it disturbing in the light of recent real world rapes like the Steubenville case and others where the rape went on the net and the victim was hounded into suicide. It does not, to me, seem a joke.
But then people argue that it is no worse than the destruction and murder going on in the games anyway.
What to think of this?
M4sterG
08-16-2014, 06:19 AM
I'm not sure where to start with this, but I will give it my best shot. You have to keep in mind that games have two purposes; to be interactive media and to be fun. GTA is a game that involves paying for sex, gang fights, murder, arson, rape and abuse. I don't see why you would play GTA if you were sensitive emotionally to those kinds of things happening, or if this had happened to you and a slight change to game mechanics like humping was possible. It's a bit strange for a victim to play a game that touches so closely on what they experienced.
Being upset because of recent events is hardly the game's fault or those hackers being insensitive, its's a game about crime, designed to throw a light on societies problems and be fun. I personally had never heard of the Steubenville case, it seems like a very big stretch to extend what happens in one game to what happened online on social media. Just because they are both done online does not automatically link them.
Hacking is an issue in all games, but to argue these instances as being morally wrong is just absurd, given what the games content is. Hacking is the issue you should be annoyed with, its bad and ruins games for everyone. This is a very mild example of hacking, quite funny and humorous, I am sure it will be fixed as soon as the developers can nail it down. It will either be patched out or nothing will happen and the game will be abandoned as more holes in its coding are found and the game becomes unplayable due to hacking.
Thorne
08-16-2014, 06:31 AM
What to think of this?
I gotta go with those who say it's no worse than the other crap that happens in the game. First of all, it's a GAME! If you get your jollies off killing virtual people, running them over with cars, shooting them in the head, or all the other junk that happens in these games, why would you be disturbed by a little virtual rape? (For the record, I've never played one of these games, never seen one played, only know about them from the news, so forgive me if I get some details wrong.)
Sure, I can see that it can be annoying that your character gets stuck and you can't do anything with it. That's too bad. Complain to the manufacturer. But is it really any worse than having your character shoot some other character in the head? Or having your character shot in the head?
If you can't deal with that kind of shit in a video game, you probably shouldn't be playing those kinds of games.
Thorne
08-16-2014, 06:42 AM
it seems like a very big stretch to extend what happens in one game to what happened online on social media. Just because they are both done online does not automatically link them.
I wouldn't be so quick to split them, either. For better or worse, social media is running rampant around the world. And bullying on those sites, including threats of violence, rape, murder and torture, have been known to drive people to suicide. Part of the problem is the inherent anonymity of the net, allowing people who wouldn't dream of saying (or doing) things like that in reality the ability to say and do them in virtual reality. The problem, I think, lies in the apparent fragile nature of some people who get freaked out by such things.
Like you, though, I would find it strange that someone who had been assaulted would be playing those kinds of games anyway. If virtual rape is going to trigger you, it's probably not a good idea to be playing a game where virtual rape is the norm.
I gotta go with those who say it's no worse than the other crap that happens in the game. First of all, it's a GAME! If you get your jollies off killing virtual people, running them over with cars, shooting them in the head, or all the other junk that happens in these games, why would you be disturbed by a little virtual rape? (For the record, I've never played one of these games, never seen one played, only know about them from the news, so forgive me if I get some details wrong.)
Sure, I can see that it can be annoying that your character gets stuck and you can't do anything with it. That's too bad. Complain to the manufacturer. But is it really any worse than having your character shoot some other character in the head? Or having your character shot in the head?
I have to explain myself better here, I can see that, because this to me is not primarily about people who play the game and do not like virtual rape.
I have followed what has been going on in various places of the Western world in recent years, even in Denmark which shocks me the most. Bear with me for a bit.
What I have heard about is the tone in many schools, where girls (8-10 yrs) have to accept and get used to being called 'whore' and 'sow' and various other expressions. When teenagers in too many schools the problem of boys groping girls is overlooked or ignored. Patting bottoms, pulling tits, trying to get them in a corner. Many women (or even teenagers or girls) have experienced calls from cars with abusive language or suggestions, some who talk back experience the car stopping and the idiots running after them. The same thing happens with cat calls and unwanted suggestions from strangers, remarks on looks benign or less so, things happening in working places and on field jobs and so on. And online, it often happens that women who either say something unpopular or who are simply in the public eye gets splashed with sexually orientated shit. It is a real burden on too many people.
Where am I going with this? Simply that when you (judges, teachers, journalists or whoever) get to talk to some of these people, they all say variations over the same theme: "I did not mean it." "Doesn't everyone?"
It is taken as normal by far too many people.
You see where I am going with this. I do not like games with murder and gross violence much, but I do not think that even if they are there people get to think that murder is normal. But an awful lot of people think that above is normal, up to and in some cases including rape. I fear this will reinforce this trend.
And secondly, the Steubenville case and the others are in too recent memory for me to see this as any kind of joke. They raped and put pictures of the rape on the net, just as these people do with their virtual version. The exact same way. If this is a joke, it is an extremely sick joke.
If you can't deal with that kind of shit in a video game, you probably shouldn't be playing those kinds of games.
If you know about it, yes. I gather this has come as a surprise, that is the whole point of doing it, isn't it?
I'm not sure where to start with this, but I will give it my best shot. You have to keep in mind that games have two purposes; to be interactive media and to be fun. GTA is a game that involves paying for sex, gang fights, murder, arson, rape and abuse. I don't see why you would play GTA if you were sensitive emotionally to those kinds of things happening, or if this had happened to you and a slight change to game mechanics like humping was possible. It's a bit strange for a victim to play a game that touches so closely on what they experienced.
As I said, I doubt people are prepared for that, and for the joke to be up-loaded on You tube. But I am more concerned with the people who do this, than the people it is done too, all virtually of course.
Being upset because of recent events is hardly the game's fault or those hackers being insensitive, its's a game about crime, designed to throw a light on societies problems and be fun. I personally had never heard of the Steubenville case, it seems like a very big stretch to extend what happens in one game to what happened online on social media. Just because they are both done online does not automatically link them.
http://www.upworthy.com/a-horrifying-thing-happened-in-ohio-not-being-creepy-could-prevent-it-from-happe
http://www.newsweek.com/why-no-one-talking-about-second-steubenville-rape-case-207333
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/01/steubenville_rape_case_what_ha.html
That is the most known case, but there have been other where the rape was posted online and the victim harassed until she committed suicide. Exactly like these virtual people do. The connection is impossible to miss, actually.
This is a very mild example of hacking, quite funny and humorous, I am sure it will be fixed as soon as the developers can nail it down. It will either be patched out or nothing will happen and the game will be abandoned as more holes in its coding are found and the game becomes unplayable due to hacking.
mild?? quite funny and humorous??
M4sterG
08-16-2014, 02:26 PM
It is taken as normal by far too many people.
Agreed it is, but definitely not to the extent that you are suggesting. I do not think it is anywhere near normal and I stay in one of those western countries.
You see where I am going with this. I do not like games with murder and gross violence much, but I do not think that even if they are there people get to think that murder is normal. But an awful lot of people think that above is normal, up to and in some cases including rape. I fear this will reinforce this trend.
Playing violent games does not make you a violent person. That is sensationalist journalism. Do you ever watch a film and start to act the way the characters are in that film? Or when you watch a tv show? Or read a book? Gaming is no different. Deranged people do terrible things, regardless of what they watch, read or play. It is them being deranged or unstable as a person that is the root cause.
And secondly, the Steubenville case and the others are in too recent memory for me to see this as any kind of joke. They raped and put pictures of the rape on the net, just as these people do with their virtual version. The exact same way. If this is a joke, it is an extremely sick joke.
If this is a joke about the Steubenville case, then yes it is sick, however no where in any of the articles you have linked to is this game and the Steubenville case mentioned together. I do not see a connection.
I gather this has come as a surprise, that is the whole point of doing it, isn't it?
The whole point in hacking is to do something the games creator did not intend, effectively cheating. Quite often this takes the form of pranks, one hacker on a games server messing with lots of clueless people who can't do what the hacker is doing. Believe me, it can be a very funny experience.
As I said, I doubt people are prepared for that, and for the joke to be up-loaded on You tube. But I am more concerned with the people who do this, than the people it is done too, all virtually of course.
In a virtual electronic world like GTA 5 they should be prepared for far worse, it is after all a giant crime sandbox game. I honestly think you just dont understand the game itself and the sort of silly antics (planes being landed upside down on buildings, multi exotic car pile ups that would make a blues brothers film blush) all of these things are allowed and condoned in GTA 5. People go there to do daft things and commit pretend crimes in a place where the only repercussion is a mission failure or character respawn.
Exactly like these virtual people do. The connection is impossible to miss, actually.
Show me in the articles linked where the game GTA 5 and the Steubenville rape cases are mentioned together. They aren't. You are taking two completely unrelated stories on the internet and joining them up in an extremely tenuous way.
mild?? quite funny and humorous??
Yes. As I mentioned before GTA 5 is a game all about doing crazy things. Hacking the game to force pole dancing player characters is actually really quite funny (this was actually one of the examples from the independent article). Gamers find many bugs and glitches funny, this does not make us crazed insane mass rapists.
"It is taken as normal by far too many people.2
""Agreed it is, but definitely not to the extent that you are suggesting. I do not think it is anywhere near normal and I stay in one of those western countries.""
With all due respect, you are not a woman and might see what is going on as well a the people on the receiving end - can you see that? . And I am not suggesting it, I have my info directly from people it happens to, plus my own experiences. I am not talking about actual attacks (done by, IMO disturbed people) but incidents like these and there is a big group of men who do not understand the reactions to their behavior and way of talking, and who do not want to listen when told, either. They think people should react the way they expect them to react, and do not get through their heads that this is not happening.
"You see where I am going with this. I do not like games with murder and gross violence much, but I do not think that even if they are there people get to think that murder is normal. But an awful lot of people think that above is normal, up to and in some cases including rape. I fear this will reinforce this trend."
""Playing violent games does not make you a violent person. That is sensationalist journalism. Do you ever watch a film and start to act the way the characters are in that film? Or when you watch a tv show? Or read a book? Gaming is no different. Deranged people do terrible things, regardless of what they watch, read or play. It is them being deranged or unstable as a person that is the root cause.""
Agreed, as I said in other mails. I said that the difference between the violence and these mock rapes is - or could be - that while I do not think people will ever think murder is normal behavior from these game, they might think the mock rape is a joke, because this tendency is already there and could be worsened, as it has been worsened in recent years.
"And secondly, the Steubenville case and the others are in too recent memory for me to see this as any kind of joke. They raped and put pictures of the rape on the net, just as these people do with their virtual version. The exact same way. If this is a joke, it is an extremely sick joke."
""If this is a joke about the Steubenville case, then yes it is sick, however no where in any of the articles you have linked to is this game and the Steubenville case mentioned together. I do not see a connection.""
I do not get the connection form the that article, but I have told you that in those cases the rape was taken on photo and photos put online. In the mock rape the same happens. You may not consider the reason the same way I do, but you must be capable of seeing the similarity, especially if you see the links.
"I gather this has come as a surprise, that is the whole point of doing it, isn't it?"
""The whole point in hacking is to do something the games creator did not intend, effectively cheating. Quite often this takes the form of pranks, one hacker on a games server messing with lots of clueless people who can't do what the hacker is doing. Believe me, it can be a very funny experience.""
I believe you.
"As I said, I doubt people are prepared for that, and for the joke to be up-loaded on You tube. But I am more concerned with the people who do this, than the people it is done too, all virtually of course."
"" In a virtual electronic world like GTA 5 they should be prepared for far worse, it is after all a giant crime sandbox game. I honestly think you just dont understand the game itself and the sort of silly antics (planes being landed upside down on buildings, multi exotic car pile ups that would make a blues brothers film blush) all of these things are allowed and condoned in GTA 5. People go there to do daft things and commit pretend crimes in a place where the only repercussion is a mission failure or character respawn.""
I do understand what you say. I do.
But I wonder what you can understand what I say? That so much painful harassment is considered silly pranks or more or less harmless by the people doing it?
"Exactly like these virtual people do. The connection is impossible to miss, actually."
""Show me in the articles linked where the game GTA 5 and the Steubenville rape cases are mentioned together. They aren't. You are taking two completely unrelated stories on the internet and joining them up in an extremely tenuous way.""
I have explained to you repeatedly what is similar. If you do not want to see it, there is nothing more I can say other than you do now want to, because it is glaringly obvious.
"mild?? quite funny and humorous??"
"2Yes. As I mentioned before GTA 5 is a game all about doing crazy things. Hacking the game to force pole dancing player characters is actually really quite funny (this was actually one of the examples from the independent article). Gamers find many bugs and glitches funny, this does not make us crazed insane mass rapists.""
Sigh. I never said it did.
M4sterG
08-17-2014, 05:28 AM
Yup im not a woman, so I dont have direct experience of it. I agree people need to be less obnoxious and sleazy.
I disagree, people know what is wrong, someone hacking mock rape into a game is not going to convince anyine of it being ok. The act of recording it is something else entirely. This crosses over into your third point. The most viewed videos on youtube are gaming videos, predominantly funny and silly clips or what are termed "Let's Plays". So funny video game clips are very common, sharing footage of a hacker in game is pretty common too.
Quite honestly I dont, on one hand you have a very serious and worrying rape case and the other hand you have a clip of someone hacking a video game about comitting crime to put people into compromising in game situations is definitely not something I see a link to. Definitely not what how you are linking the two together. In the video game clips the person is not being harrassed into comitting suicide or being hounded across social networks.
But I wonder what you can understand what I say? That so much painful harassment is considered silly pranks or more or less harmless by the people doing it?
I dont understand your point here, this is not actual harassment, this is a game.
I have explained to you repeatedly what is similar. If you do not want to see it, there is nothing more I can say other than you do now want to, because it is glaringly obvious.
If it is glaringly obvious why has no one else drawn the same conclusions you have? There us literally nothing similar, one is a actual violation of someone and a disgusting hounding of a victim, the other is a silly 3 minute clip from an online game. Again I do not see how you are connecting them.
Sigh. I never said it did.
My apologies, I thought that is what you were aluding to. However my original point stands it is humerous because it is taking place in a game.
Thorne
08-17-2014, 07:20 AM
Where am I going with this? Simply that when you (judges, teachers, journalists or whoever) get to talk to some of these people, they all say variations over the same theme: "I did not mean it." "Doesn't everyone?"
I'm in complete agreement with you here. The way people in authority tend to dismiss or overlook these actions is, IMO, criminal. What's even worse is that, in those rare instances where the women and girls actually defend themselves, they are viewed as the criminals!
But that has nothing to do with the game. Repeated studies have shown that game play does not translate into real life actions, except in extremely rare cases of certain mental illnesses, in which case the actions would likely have occurred regardless. What HAS been shown, I believe, is that role-playing in such games can actually help to defuse violent tendencies and reactions, to some degree.
I do agree, though, that something needs to be done, in our schools and in our courts, to punish those who harass others, either physically or verbally. And on the Internet it's gotten out of hand. As you've noted, a woman saying something that refutes a point made by a man will almost always be subjected to the most vile, hateful, demeaning rhetoric imaginable. Not because she's wrong. In fact, the more right she is, the worse the hate. This has got to be addressed and controlled. Those who comment in such ways should be banned and have their ID's released to the public.
Thank you for your responses.
I think the only difference in opinion here (not that anyone has to agree) is that I see the game as the same level of attitude as people shouting, groping etc, who cannot see that this is not a joke. Maybe it is because I do not do many games.
The cases this made me think of was like ones like these: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/09/rehtaeh-parsons-suicide-bullying-rape_n_3044885.html and http://www.cbsnews.com/news/audrie-pott-suicide-three-teens-arrested-for-alleged-sexual-assault-of-calif-girl-who-committed-suicide/ which were rape and then pics online and then suicide.
The Steubenville was not a suicide - my mixing then up - but pictures were put online and that did result in haranguing the victim. There have been others.
The comments of the offenders are what make me think that even a mock rape and then pics on You Tube is not a joke.
But then to me neither is murder.
PS, I need to try to explain this way: it is a matter of attitude and reality pressing to close for comfort with some things.
If, for example, a game was invented in which you rounded up jews and put them in a gas chamber, or bombed Palestinian children, would you consider that a joke? Would child abuse or animal abuse? Because it is just a game?
M4sterG
08-24-2014, 03:04 AM
Funnily enough no I wouldnt consider the bombing of children, the mass killing of any people, the abuse of children or animals and the raping of people to be fun if it was the sole object of a game. I have played games where you can wipe out entire races and civilisations. I have played games where you commit an act of terror. What you have to remember is it is a game, this isn't real life, its the exact same as watching a violent movie, a break from the norm. It doesn't desensitise you to what goes on. If anything it puts you in someone elses shoes, the only other medium that does that is a book.