To set the record straight [Archive]

sirken

03-28-2005, 07:42 AM

I came to this site to find a sub and to share my stories with like minded people, I found friendship here with A/all, was approached by two ladies one sub and one not sure new to lifestyle,Was informed learningtopleez was interested in Me as Dom, and also the other was interested as one writer to another, communicated with both, told the other would help by being mentor answering questions so she could decide her role in lifestyle, send numerous writings back and forth, at the same time was getting to know ltp , on the night before I was accussed of having a stable I formally took ltp as Mine, at no time did I ask the other to wear my collar, had big project that day so couldnt get back online, read email off site saying should come to site two subs fighting over Dom thought I may enjoy reading, paid no attention to it,
that was my only mistake should have come to site, as I was the Dom in question, I bear no ill will toward the other sub as she is new to lifestyle and just assumed she was mine, But for the record so A/all may know learningtopleez is the only sub, I collared, her only fault was coming to you and not to Me, as you will see by her profile she still wears My collar proudly, and she will be punished for not asking Me instead of others as is My right as her Master

Darkgirl

03-28-2005, 08:00 AM

It is probably not my place to say anything but I can feel a certain resemblemence to myself. Not being used to BDSM and only just starting off with my husband SIR I can only say that I'm very lucky to be introducing BDSM into your lives.
But for someone who has an overwelming urge of need to be a sub, you 'may' have given her the opportunity to feel wanted. Not blaming anyone as sometimes emotions can make decisions rather than actual thought. It will take time but I agree that you have to take a stand now rather than later.

Is there anyway that you could have 2 subs. It may be more work involved but this could also be an advantage for all three. They could both prove their loyalty to you as afterall it is an online thing but are you looking further on than that?

It is only a thought so please don't take this the wrong way. I just know how strong the feeling is to be a sub.

e.b.

03-28-2005, 08:03 AM

that was my only mistake should have come to site, as I was the Dom in question, I bear no ill will toward the other sub as she is new to lifestyle and just assumed she was mine, But for the record so A/all may know learningtopleez is the only sub, I collared, her only fault was coming to you and not to Me, as you will see by her profile she still wears My collar proudly, and she will be punished for not asking Me instead of others as is My right as her Master

Excuse me, but what I take from this post is that you are not happy with a sub (LTP) for having friends in the lifestyle that she trusts more than some "dom" she just met. Well, hello, any dom with any sense of common courtesy would understand that, especially if the dom in question cannot be reached, for whatever reason, a sub is going to go to people she trusts (that she's known longer than you) for guidance. IMO punishing that is not acceptable, especially considering it sounds like the whole misunderstanding occurred b/c you were not as honest and forthcoming, or as clear about rules and boundaries, as I would expect a quality dom to be.

LTP is an excellent sub, btw, and I have no question in my mind that she would have approached you first if she'd felt a sense of mutual respect and comfort with you. Perhaps you should consider acquiring other attributes such as honesty, respectfulness, and compassion to add to your profile of "strong, tall dom".

In other words, don't fuck with my friends and fellow subs. Especially when I have absolutely nothing to lose by calling you on it at this site. Punishment should be between dom and sub, not broadcast to the world.

eb

Darkgirl

03-28-2005, 08:16 AM

Maybe I should'nt have answered to this thread with the previous post. I really don't know what went on between the three of you but it could become a dangerouse game if someone gets hurt.

As e.b. has mentioned it should be sorted out by yourself and those involved and not publicly as has been done. If you want advice then PM-ing someone that you can trust would be far more subtle.

I also think the same as e.b. now that she has put it to my attention that 'honesty' may not have played it's part.

I hope this does get sorted out quickly as I would not like anyone here to get hurt, least of all people that I call 'freinds'.

sirken

03-28-2005, 09:47 AM

Darkgirl

03-28-2005, 10:01 AM

It is not for me to ask questions as such. If this thread had not been posted then the question of 'why?' would not have appeared. To 'set a record straight' means that something has been said, but what? I haven't seen or heard anything and I still think that those who don't know anything should not have known anything (probably including myself).

I regard everyone here as a 'friend' because if I hadn't come here I would not be leading such a wonderful and closer life with my husband, 'SIR'.

To me this site is my new family and I enjoy every minute, as does SIR, on here. I learn something every day by such brave and wonderful people who give soo much to this site.

If I am supposed to 'know' something then it would be by those people at hand and not for me to find out. What you have posted may be with consent but it should still have been a private thing between yourselves as this could damage this other person. Sometimes it just takes a little understanding and communication which 'may' not have happened here.

Again, I really do hope that this matter is resolved fast without anyone getting hurt as you are 'all' my freinds.

Locked Advantages

03-28-2005, 10:15 AM

i know that I don't know much about the situation but I hope everything ends up coming out okay for both of you:)

Caitlin

03-28-2005, 10:51 AM

read email off site saying should come to site two subs fighting over Dom thought I may enjoy reading
Sirken,this apparent bickering went over my head, and I wouldn't have known about it, except I do now because you posted this thread.

But for the record so A/all may know learningtopleez is the only sub, I collared, her only fault was coming to you and not to Me, as you will see by her profile she still wears My collar proudly, and she will be punished for not asking Me instead of others as is My right as her Master
You yourself said you wern't available when this argument started. ltp couldn't get in touch with you and needed to talk to someone. I find it a bit unsettling to me when a man needs to punish a woman when she turns to her friends / support system for either advice or just a chat about something.

Jadetiger

03-28-2005, 01:52 PM

I have read what was said in forums before,about Me, only I ltp and the other know whole truth, and as for public admonishment of ltp she agreed so if you wish to question My motives, honesty, or compassion and you say you are friend to her then ask her, as to other question will it lead to r/l noone knows that only time and growing will tell

SirKen,
Your need to publicly admonish your sub is all I need to gauge your motives, honesty, or compassion. The fact that you apparently did not feel the need to get the other person's permission regarding this post also reflects on your character as well. Sometimes taking the blame and apologizing for a misunderstanding is the manly thing to do. Since you are an experimented Dom I believe that is how we expected you to react and to handle the situation in a polite way. As far as this sub bickering you are referring to please point us to the posts. I never saw anything like this regarding you.

alura

03-28-2005, 02:17 PM

Whatever the situation, it's just so much water under the bridge. Though all of your protective instincts, amazing, beautiful and tender; showing your love and appreciation for LTP, are amazing and valued by LTP in so many ways, (and I hope someday to earn those same things for myself), as it is, we are now, despite all words that we might speak, no longer in control of the situation. They have to (Sir Ken and LTP) work these things out for themselves. If it's meant to be? They'll manage. If not, they won't.
I'm sure she can fight her own battles.
THE PAST IS JUST THAT....The Past.
My personal judgement is to let it lie.
All we are doing is causing more strife between the two of them and that's not a good thing.
Feel free to beat on me, publicly or otherwise, but I can't help how I feel.

SirKen,
Your need to publicly admonish your sub is all I need to gauge your motives, honesty, or compassion. The fact that you apparently did not feel the need to get the other person's permission regarding this post also reflects on your character as well. Sometimes taking the blame and apologizing for a misunderstanding is the manly thing to do. Since you are an experimented Dom I believe that is how we expected you to react and to handle the situation in a polite way. As far as this sub bickering you are referring to please point us to the posts. I never saw anything like this regarding you.

learningtopleez

03-28-2005, 11:05 PM

First I would like to say how much I love each of you for your kind words, your concern and the fact that you all care so much! It means the world to me as do each of you!

Now to explain so that you, my subbie sisters may breathe a sigh of relief and hopefully feel happiness for me and my Master, Sirken. I was told by a dear friend that sirken was interested in another as well a few days ago. She told me this because she was concerned for me, as are all of you. I do not feel she did this to cause problems. But it seems that ltp has some trust issues, (and some of you may remember why). So I immediately tried to contact sirken and when he did not respond to my IM's, I started accusing him. I now feel this was wrong (and not because he convinced me!), but because after talking with a couple of other people and doing some serious thinking (yep...I can be serious on occasion :p ), it just sorta hit me. I didn't know the friend who told me of this, or the "other" sub any better than I knew him. (yep, I figured out who she was and we had some interesting talks...btw...I like her just fine!) So why did I automatically assume he was at fault? Why?...because I am an insecure sub and not very trusting of men (be they Doms or whatever!). Once I realized all this I thought to myself...you idiot! :eek: Have you lost your mind woman???? I mean we seemed to connect from the beginning...just sorta clicked ya know? He is sweet, and kind, and funny, and his words...OMG!!...his words are just so very hot! And he does a fine job of keeping me in line! Well, we finally talked some more after the other stuff happened and we both agreed that maybe we had both rushed a little, but that it just felt right. He told me I could still be his and we would grow with trust, that there is no rush. I gladly and readily accepted! Then yesterday he told me he had posted on site that I am his and will be punished by not being allowed to post any type of reponse for 48 hours. I was not to say anything to anyone that this was my punishment. Well those of you that know me well...may I just say...damn....was this hard for me. He allowed me to read what others had posted so I knew all my subbie sisters were angry, but I was not allowed to defend him in any way! But it hasn't been 48 hours, I hear you all saying! I told ya he is sweet! He knew I was very upset that you guys were bashing him...and I do appreciate your care and concern...honest, but I also felt very badly that I couldn't say anything to anyone so that you all would know that I told him I was willing to accept whatever punishment he saw fit. I also felt it was wrong for everyone to be rude to him for my mistakes, my mistrust and my insecurities. So he has given me permission to post a reply...thank god....cause it was just killing me! :D Now you know why he did this, and that he is now my Master, which I am very happy about! We will go slowly, and hopefully I WILL learn to please!

Once again I truly appreciate all of you for your love and kindness to me! Now if I may ask you all a favor...he is truly a great Dom...and I have learned from this...so please go easy on him! If not, I may have to pay the price...although that might not be so bad! ;)

I thank you Master for giving me the opportunity to help you set the record straight and to learn!

Hugs and kisses
~ltp

Locked Advantages

03-28-2005, 11:51 PM

I am glad that things are good between you two now, drama is bad,lol...that's how simple my mind is right now but I did want to respond since I know how it is to have problems trusting men since I know what can happen within a life to hurt one;)

learningtopleez

03-28-2005, 11:57 PM

Thank you Locked Advantages...it was with you that we first discussed our coming together....and you are right...it is not good to hurt your Master! I felt so badly that I had written things about him (w/o using his name), however, he knew and that was the hurtful part. I accused him of doing something that I turned around and did to him...hurt...it is never a good thing...especially towards a good person such as He is! I am just hoping he will approve of my long winded reply! Wish me luck! ;)

Hugs,
~ltp~

Locked Advantages

03-29-2005, 12:24 AM

That is something I've learned in the past when I had trouble trusting my former dominant, after I went through alot of the bad but if both people care enough I know that it can work;) Okay maybe I am too much of a romantic saying that,lol :dunno:

learningtopleez

03-29-2005, 12:31 AM

I'm a hopeless romantic sug...I'm right there with ya...LOL!

~ltp~

Ruby

03-29-2005, 12:43 AM

This reads like a bad soap opera.

I question if the purpose of the original post was to punish LTP or confess that there was a misunderstanding between the two of you.

Like any good drama we seek villains and heros, but in this saga, no one comes out smelling like a rose. No one is as innocent as they might proclaim to be.

Perhaps that's the reality check and lesson for today. Live, learn, forgive and try again.

LTP - I admire your ability to learn from this situation. I hope you enjoy your time with your new master. It's much more fun to read the playfull banter that you both had going earlier than this type of thread. And about your hurry to post and break your punishment time, remember, your master is a big boy. He can defend himself.

alura

03-29-2005, 12:05 PM

Hey! You already KNOW how I feel....I was the outnumbered one saying 'leave them alone and let HIM spank her....it's what she wants anyway!' Grin...of course, not in those EXACT words...but well...? Laughing...

Sirken IS a really great guy. He's very smart and can be quite funny at times. And he seems to make you very happy, which is important to all of US! I think it is SO wonderful that so many seem to care for you, also. I admit to a touch of envy. Maybe I'll be lucky enough someday to have that kind of loyalty.

Again, the past is the past is the past...if it wasn't...can you IMAGINE how confusing life could be? You'd never know what dimension you were living in.

And heck, it's hard *enough* just living in ONE.

Good luck to both of you. May you find long and lasting love.....and even more importantly, may the two of you find in each other the best friend that you have ever had. (I say with some prejudice because that's what my ex and I were before we even got married....EX....? .... because he lost his marbles. Ah, well-)

At any rate......CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU BOTH!!!!!

he is truly a great Dom...and I have learned from this...so please go easy on him! If not, I may have to pay the price...although that might not be so bad! ;)

e.b.

03-29-2005, 03:05 PM

sirken,

i definitely owe you a major apology. i tend to be too overprotective sometimes and i obviously overreacted here. Please accept my apologies; i certainly didn't mean to cause any harm and am very sorry if i did so.

BTW, your punishment seemed very fair, not that my opinion matters...but anyhow, there's a shortage of good doms in the world so it's nice to be able to see evidence that there's one more out there and even nicer to know that LTP is well cared for by one of the good ones. Now that i'm thinking straight and am able to speak with a better understanding instead of jumping in without the whole story and making something of an ass of myself, i wish you both nothing but the best. You both seem very happy together and that's all that matters! Best wishes to you both and again, i apologize!! :)

eb

redEva

03-29-2005, 04:24 PM

*shakes head and giggles!*

This reads like a bad soap opera.
Who needs day time drama TV – Forums deserve Emmy!

i definitely owe you a major apology.
nicely done e.b. next time, maybe, if you did not let those claws run amuck, you would not have to lick wounds ;)

LTP good luck dear - and patience and trust!

wannabeXopsed

03-29-2005, 04:33 PM

It is sooo,,, hard to eat humble pie, but you did it well and i have to say i am proud of you! It is something that we all can learn from.

I am also glad to see things back on track for ltp and Sirken!

I am such a romantic.

T=WB

Caitlin

03-29-2005, 06:36 PM

:rolleyes: Well! :rolleyes: I didn't post a reply straight away when I read learningtopleez side of the story, which filled in alot of the missing gaps. I slept on them, I wondered if I was too quick to judge and comment.

I reread what you wrote Sirken and my reply. :dunno: I, like many others, didn't know about it until you posted it.

And I do feel uneasy when a man seperates a woman from her family, friends and support group. Many abusive men do this (and I'm not suggesting you are one).

I, and others as well I would say, were wondering about the punishment learningtopleez was going through. Never leave a woman to speculate about anything :). It can be damn right dangerous.

As publicly aired all this is, so to is my sincere appologies to you, Sirken. And I do most sincerly wish you and learningtopleez all the best in your relationship together as a couple.

Please accept my hugs, kisses, and best, best wishes.

caitlin

learningtopleez

03-31-2005, 11:35 AM

LTP - I admire your ability to learn from this situation. I hope you enjoy your time with your new master. It's much more fun to read the playfull banter that you both had going earlier than this type of thread. And about your hurry to post and break your punishment time, remember, your master is a big boy. He can defend himself.

I agree Ruby...it was much more fun teasing sirken and having him tease back...and I am quite sure we will get back to that....but misunderstandings do occur in real life, and have to be dealt with. I am also quite aware that my Master is a big boy :p , and can defend himself, but as his sub, I felt the need to point out my issues as well. Having now done that and having received blessings from those that have posted, I'm just ready to learn to please Him as much as possible, and to learn from him...with a little pleasure thrown in for me of course! :D

~ltp~

learningtopleez

04-05-2005, 10:56 PM

Well, most of you may have noticed already, but since this was a thread to start our (myself and sirken's) relationship record straight, I felt it was the best place to put this post, saying that I no longer wear his collar. Once again, sirken and I had a misunderstanding. This time I went directly to him, having learned from my punishment to do so. He was still upset that I was upset and felt this was not our time and has released me from his collar. That said, I wish him good luck in finding the sub he desires. And as Ruby pointed out earlier...it was rather like a bad soap opera...way too much drama! Some was my fault, some was his. So now we move on...the end! :D

~ltp~

P.S. He once told me that several Doms on this site told him they felt I could never be tamed. Was he BSing me again? Or do some of you feel that way? Just curious...but if so...why do you feel that way? Thanks for all input! :)

Jadetiger

04-06-2005, 12:40 AM

SirW

04-06-2005, 03:06 AM

P.S. He once told me that several Doms on this site told him they felt I could never be tamed. Was he BSing me again? Or do some of you feel that way? Just curious...but if so...why do you feel that way? Thanks for all input! :)

It isn't a matter of taming my sweet baby girl, it is all about fit. You will find the "One" someday. Unfortunately sometimes you gotta go through alot of bumps in the road to get there.

Any real Dom would not wish to "tame" or "break" a submissive. Your natural style and enthusiasm is really what makes you special, unique, and oh so lovely. Don't ever change for anyone.
Someday you will find the "One" who will appreciate what you are and work hard to blend His best with yours.

Your friend,

Sir

Ranai

04-06-2005, 06:23 AM

What someone who sends 'Other people have told me about you...' criticism means:

'Sorry, I can't form my own opinions.'
or possibly
'I can't think of anything nasty and substantial to say, so I'll just resort to vague second-hand allegations.'

Too bloody silly to worry about.

And SirW is dead right I think, it's all about encoutering a Dom who is able to appreciate you. :)

Caitlin

04-06-2005, 10:11 AM

Touche

Nicely put Ranai, and elegantly put SirW.

learningtopleeze ~ ;) luv ya baby. I hope the next Don you find is the real deal, and not just a bump. :D

Caitlin

BDSM_Tourguide

04-06-2005, 11:28 AM

Any real Dom would not wish to "tame" or "break" a submissive.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I believe a real dominant shouldn't have to tame or break a submissive. The submissive should have a desire to serve and obey in the first place.

smartass kitten

04-06-2005, 12:53 PM

Sir Lanceloth

04-06-2005, 01:15 PM

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I believe a real dominant should have to tame or break a submissive. The submissive should have a desire to serve and obey in the first place.

I dont agree completely with that, after all its not all subs who desires to have their will broken. I believe it is possible to teach a sub without having to break them. The way i imagine doing that is by communication, when the sub does something wrong the punishment works better (in my view) if the sub has been convinced that what she/he did was wrong. I dont see that as taming or breaking the sub, but perhaps im wrong? After all i am not sure of all the terms flying around this place :)

Ruby

04-06-2005, 01:47 PM

Musing on TG's post:

Perhaps the sub is "tame" for the right one. If T tried to "tame or break me", I can't imagine our relationship working.

We're best friends, lovers, partners, lifemates, master and pet, but I have never been tamed or broken. If I am "tame" for him, it is my choice. He very much enjoys my wild side.

It's about the relationship and the people involved. If TG meant "shouldn't" then I agree. If not, well, to each their own.

LTP:

You'll get no apologies from my. Only an "it sucks" that it didn't work out.

Aside from TG's unedited comment, I agree with other posts. The right dom will come along.

Word of advice - let them do the chasing. For me, being collared is like being engaged/married. Take your time. If you wouldn't accept the ring of someone you've dated less than a month, then you don't have to accept a collar, either.

BDSM_Tourguide

04-06-2005, 02:16 PM

you mean, "shouldn't", right? :o

Yes. Darn it. Let me go fix that.

BDSM_Tourguide

04-06-2005, 02:19 PM

I dont agree completely with that, after all its not all subs who desires to have their will broken. I believe it is possible to teach a sub without having to break them.

So do I. I corrected the error in my post. Of course, it probably could have been inferred anyway by reading my post in the context of the quoted material.

BDSM_Tourguide

04-06-2005, 02:20 PM

If TG meant "shouldn't" then I agree. If not, well, to each their own.

I fixed it already! Jeez. :p

alura

04-06-2005, 03:58 PM

People with low self esteem always say things about others to put them down. It makes them feel better; makes them feel justified in their actions. The fact that Sirkin posted an AVATAR and claimed it was really him instead of telling the truth is proof of that. If he had said 'no it is not me but I am not comfortable sharing my pictures at this time' that at least would have been honest. He lied from the start. Any relationship built on lies isn't worth it. What is it that they say about a house built upon the sand? It's not about YOU, LTP! It's about him. He's the loser in this whole situation; not you. He was stupid enough to lose a gem like you because he was too busy building a little nest full of lies, then, when he got caught, like most liars try to do, he blamed you instead of himself. Liars aren't worth the skin they're wearing to walk around in. Count yourself VERY lucky and know that you are a very rare and special, talented, beautiful, amazing woman and someday your (as I like to call it) 'Vibrating Prince' will come!

He once told me that several Doms on this site told him they felt I could never be tamed. Was he BSing me again? Or do some of you feel that way? Just curious...but if so...why do you feel that way? Thanks for all input! :)

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 08:41 PM

LTP,
If it is true it is because they aren't Dom enough to be anyone's Dom. Weak minds make weak Doms. Pity jeaulous and a big ego do not make a man or a Dom. Two to one you turned all of them down and they were pissed. Now that I have got all my cattyness out I can say I'm sorry it didn't work out.

Hugs Jade

P.S. You noticed I didn't apologize. :D

Thank you Jade sug! Unfortunately I can't think of one single Dom "here" that approached me, and that I turned down. Until last night anyway...and he was very kind and understanding about it. LOL @ not apologizing and at your cattyness! :D

Hugs and kisses
~ltp~

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 08:46 PM

It isn't a matter of taming my sweet baby girl, it is all about fit. You will find the "One" someday. Unfortunately sometimes you gotta go through alot of bumps in the road to get there.

Any real Dom would not wish to "tame" or "break" a submissive. Your natural style and enthusiasm is really what makes you special, unique, and oh so lovely. Don't ever change for anyone.
Someday you will find the "One" who will appreciate what you are and work hard to blend His best with yours.

Your friend,

Sir

Thank you Sweet Sir! You are one of the few who know me the best, so I take great comfort in your words! Thank you for continuing to have faith in me...and btw...when will I get all this stuff down pat??!! :p Really though Sir, thank you for your kind words....as usual you know just what to say! :)

Hugs and kisses
~ltp~ (s.b.g.)

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 08:49 PM

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 08:54 PM

Touche

Nicely put Ranai, and elegantly put SirW.

learningtopleeze ~ ;) luv ya baby. I hope the next Don you find is the real deal, and not just a bump. :D

Caitlin

Love ya too sweetie! But I do believe I will take a break for awhile....those bumps make for a rough road! Besides...I should be focusing on school anyway. Thanks for being my friend Caitlin...it means the world to me!

Hugs and kisses
~ltp~

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 09:09 PM

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I believe a real dominant shouldn't have to tame or break a submissive. The submissive should have a desire to serve and obey in the first place.

I had every desire to serve and obey...well maybe not obey..but submit to someone who I felt a connection with and who portrayed himself as "someone that wanted an online sub only to grow in trust with." His words, not mine. But when someone lies to you not just once, but twice about who they are and what they expect, how is the sub to know the correct way to serve him that will please him the most?? This subs desire to please was there, but I was only deceived, and if I remember correctly TG...you yourself have said that honesty in any relationship is most important. So why have you changed your mind? Or do you feel that a sub should serve and obey someone who lies to her/him? Just curious here, as I am trying to learn. Thanks.

~ltp~

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 09:12 PM

I dont agree completely with that, after all its not all subs who desires to have their will broken. I believe it is possible to teach a sub without having to break them. The way i imagine doing that is by communication, when the sub does something wrong the punishment works better (in my view) if the sub has been convinced that what she/he did was wrong. I dont see that as taming or breaking the sub, but perhaps im wrong? After all i am not sure of all the terms flying around this place :)

Communication is so very important Sir Lanceloth! Glad to hear some of you Doms feel that way!

Thanks!
~ltp~

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 09:19 PM

Musing on TG's post:

LTP:

You'll get no apologies from my. Only an "it sucks" that it didn't work out.

Aside from TG's unedited comment, I agree with other posts. The right dom will come along.

Word of advice - let them do the chasing. For me, being collared is like being engaged/married. Take your time. If you wouldn't accept the ring of someone you've dated less than a month, then you don't have to accept a collar, either.

Thanks for those words of wisdom Ruby. You're right ..we both moved much too fast..I don't know why he did, but for me I guess it was lack of experience in this lifestyle. I never associated accepting a ring with accepting a collar! Makes perfect sense now of course! Ain't hindsight 20/20?? :p Oh well...one more lesson learned, and thank you sug for your continuing education course! :) It is much appreciated!

Hugs and Kisses
~ltp~

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 09:24 PM

People with low self esteem always say things about others to put them down. It makes them feel better; makes them feel justified in their actions. The fact that Sirkin posted an AVATAR and claimed it was really him instead of telling the truth is proof of that. If he had said 'no it is not me but I am not comfortable sharing my pictures at this time' that at least would have been honest. He lied from the start. Any relationship built on lies isn't worth it. What is it that they say about a house built upon the sand? It's not about YOU, LTP! It's about him. He's the loser in this whole situation; not you. He was stupid enough to lose a gem like you because he was too busy building a little nest full of lies, then, when he got caught, like most liars try to do, he blamed you instead of himself. Liars aren't worth the skin they're wearing to walk around in. Count yourself VERY lucky and know that you are a very rare and special, talented, beautiful, amazing woman and someday your (as I like to call it) 'Vibrating Prince' will come!

Thanks for the encouragement and love Alura! :) You are one of a kind and one that I wouldn't know how to do without! Love ya sweetie! I'll keep my eyes open for that "Vibrating Prince!" ....or maybe I should just listen out for him??? LOL! Thanks for making me smile hun!

Hugs and kisses
~ltp~

BDSM_Tourguide

04-06-2005, 10:05 PM

So why have you changed your mind? Or do you feel that a sub should serve and obey someone who lies to her/him? Just curious here, as I am trying to learn. Thanks.

~ltp~

I haven't changed my mind. I made no mention at all about honesty. I dislike dishonesty in most forms.

What I did say was that I didn't feel a submissive should have to be tamed or broken. Meaning that they should either have the desire to submit or they should not categorize themselves as submissives. What is submissive about someone who resists submitting? What is submissive about disobedience?

learningtopleez

04-06-2005, 10:33 PM

I haven't changed my mind. I made no mention at all about honesty. I dislike dishonesty in most forms.

What I did say was that I didn't feel a submissive should have to be tamed or broken. Meaning that they should either have the desire to submit or they should not categorize themselves as submissives. What is submissive about someone who resists submitting? What is submissive about disobedience?

So are you saying that I was disobedient in this situation? Or that I resisted submitting to sirken? I was very willing and eager to submit and to please, and did so many times before and after finding out that he may have lied to me in the beginning of our short little affair. It was after the second lie he told me that I went to him first as he had asked me to, only to find that he was still upset that I even questioned him. Yes, I do consider myself submissive. No, I don't have a hell of alot of experience in this lifestyle. But I do feel that a sub has the right to ask questions of her Dom or Master. How else is one supposed to know anything? He even told me himself that I should ask questions if I was unsure of something. Besides, if a sub is never disobedient, how does the punishment come into play? Just because?? And I stand corrected TG, you didn't mention honesty. I did.

alura

04-06-2005, 10:47 PM

I am probably about to get into a bad place with you, TG, but that's okay. D/s is all about disagreement and finding your agreement.
To me, submitting and dominating are all shades of grey. And because of that, so are relationtionships, and the defintions thereof.

I haven't changed my mind. I made no mention at all about honesty. I dislike dishonesty in most forms.

What I did say was that I didn't feel a submissive should have to be tamed or broken. Meaning that they should either have the desire to submit or they should not categorize themselves as submissives. What is submissive about someone who resists submitting? What is submissive about disobedience?

Caitlin

04-07-2005, 02:26 AM

Where is Sirken???

His av has dissoed and he's registered as guest.

Never leave a woman to speculate about anything :). It can be damn right dangerous.
caitlin

Well, I did warn him. :dunno:

Caitlin :D :D :D :D :D :D

alura

04-07-2005, 02:59 AM

Well if he's honest this time, that's all that matters to me

Where is Sirken???

His av has dissoed and he's registered as guest.

Well, I did warn him. :dunno:

Caitlin :D :D :D :D :D :D

BDSM_Tourguide

04-07-2005, 09:38 AM

So are you saying that I was disobedient in this situation? Or that I resisted submitting to sirken?

No. I think you were right to get out of the relationship. Something smelled bad about it from the beginning and you probably did better by not having a relationship with him in the first place. This statement and sequence has nothing to do with your relationship to SirKen. The sequence of events leading up to my statement about submissives not having to be tamed are as follows:

He once told me that several Doms on this site told him they felt I could never be tamed.

Any real Dom would not wish to "tame" or "break" a submissive.

I believe a real dominant shouldn't have to tame or break a submissive.

As you can see, I was never mentioning your relationship specifically, but I was referring to the fact that people seemed to think you could never be tamed. My opinion has always been that a submissive will submit because she enjoys to submit, not because she needs someone to tame her spirit or whatever. I don't know if that's true of you or not, because I don't really know you very well, or at all really. It is just my opinion. In fact, it's an opinion that has been stated in my seven types of internet submissive bit that I wrote a few months back.

As for your relationship specifically: I don't think anyone should have to be subjected to internet phonies. They give the net the reputation it already has, and I think that's a bad thing.

BDSM_Tourguide

04-07-2005, 09:42 AM

Where is Sirken???

His av has dissoed and he's registered as guest.

He must have requested that his user account be deleted. Or he did it himself. Can you do it yourself? Hmm...

BDSM_Tourguide

04-07-2005, 09:47 AM

I am probably about to get into a bad place with you, TG, but that's okay. D/s is all about disagreement and finding your agreement.
To me, submitting and dominating are all shades of grey. And because of that, so are relationtionships, and the defintions thereof.

You're not getting anywhere with me. I don't have any expectations of you in any way.

Every person's relationship is different. Diversity is what makes things interesting. However, certain relationships are categorized by certain terms. A lesbian relationship is a relationship between two women. Would a lesbian relationship still be a lesbian relationship if one of the women wanted to date men? In the same vein, a DS relationship is between a dominant and a submissive. Would it still be a DS relationship if the submissive didn't want to submit?

Ruby

04-07-2005, 10:52 AM

Besides, if a sub is never disobedient, how does the punishment come into play?

You mean I have to be "naughty" to be punished? I'm always "naughty". :p

Seriously, LTP this is a relationship question. There are many forms of play punishment where you get the pleasure of being punished for being "a bad girl" when you've done nothing at all wrong. For example, a play spanking can be soft or hard depending on your preference.

Look at FF's pictures when TG is done with her lovely backside. To them, that might be fun. To me, that would be a hard punishment way past my limits. To each their own.

There are the doms/subs who incorporate punishments into their lifestyle and use them as real punishments. If the sub is a pain slut, she probably won't receive the pain she wants as a punishment, cause to her, pain is a reward. She might have to write....essays!!!!! :eek:
or do some other task that she doesn't find pleasure in.
That's why its called punishment.

BDSM_Tourguide

04-07-2005, 12:46 PM

Besides, if a sub is never disobedient, how does the punishment come into play?

I felt that this deserved comment as well. I just couldn't decide how to put it into words until just now.

During the "training" phase of a relationship, a submissive may be disciplined or punished for forgetting a chore, not completing an assignment on time, or a variety of other things. It's not necessarily that they are disobedient. It could just be that they forgot their deadline or got busy with other things and didn't complete what was assigned her. That's what the training phase of the relationship is for; to recognize and correct these behaviors early.

And it is possible for a submissive to be disobedient and still be a submissive. That goes along with that not having to tame or break them. Not many dominants want a completely cowed, docile submissive that just says "Yes Sir" whenever they are spoken to. Most dominants want people that can carry on conversations, have their own opinions, etc. If a dominant gives an order or makes a request of his submissive and she says something like "I don't feel like it right now" then yes, that is disobedience, but there might also be a reason for the refusal of the request, too. Maybe the submissive is sick and doesn't even feel like getting out of bed. Maybe she's having her period and any sexual tasks are really uncomfortable and inconvenient for her. The mark of a good dominant is not just to say "You have disobeyed me; you will be punished." A good dominant will ask why the submissive is refusing to obey his requests. Most good submissives will have a reasonable answer handy (ie "I'm on my period," "My dad died," or "I cut off my foot and had to have it sown back on.") However, when a submissive is disobedient because she "just didn't feel like" doing the chore, or she "wants her master to punish her" isn't really being submissive. It's a more subtle form of topping from the bottom. The submissive is telling her dominant that either she doesn't respect his wishes, doesn't want to carry our his instructions for inconsequential reasons, or just wants to manipulate her dominant into giving her a spanking.

It is, in my opinion, the ultimate desire of every good dominant to not have to punish his submissive. It reflects much better on the dominant and the submissive if she can tell others "Sure, I had a rough time at first, but once I learned the rules and understood the chore schedule, I really didn't need to be disciplined anymore." In cases like that, the dominant has trained the submissive to his expectations and she is performing well.

Also, many people confuse spankings, whippings, or other kind of pain torments for punishments. Those might be great punishments for submissives that don't care for pain much. A swift, hard spanking at the moment a task is forgotten or an assignment not done is a good behavioral deterent against future slips. However, many submissive are also masochists, and they get pleasure from pain. In this kind of circumstance, I would never, ever use a pain punishment to discipline that kind of submissive. I would do the exact opposite. I would very likely tie her and put her in a closet alone for a few hours, or make her write lines, or design a punishment specific to the offense that was comitted. Punishments are not supposed to be fun. They are supposed to be instances of negative reinforcement designed to deter bad behaviors. Giving a masochist a spanking as a punishment is kind of like giving a child a piece of candy for breaking a lamp. It will only encourage poor behavior. Giving a masochist a time-out in an empty closet, though, is more like giving a child a time-out. It makes a more lasting impression and will hopefully deter the poor behavior in the future.

One other thing I feel worth mentioning about punishments is that I don't believe they should ever be sexual in nature. I have not always thought this way, but several conversations between myself and FF have made that a little more clear to me. A punishment is not supposed to be an enjoyable act, and quite often sex is very enjoyable for both parties. Therefore, it's usually not a good behavior deterent. Plus, I think that using sex, or even certain sexual acts, as punishments may send the wrong message to the submissive. Implanting the idea in her head that "you're fucking me because I'm bad" just doesn't seem right to me. I can see how that would be easily confusing.

Anyway, I hope this helps to explain a little better. I hope I haven't thoroughly hijacked the thread. If so, then I'm sorry.

learningtopleez

04-07-2005, 08:59 PM

No. I think you were right to get out of the relationship. Something smelled bad about it from the beginning and you probably did better by not having a relationship with him in the first place. This statement and sequence has nothing to do with your relationship to SirKen. The sequence of events leading up to my statement about submissives not having to be tamed are as follows:

As you can see, I was never mentioning your relationship specifically, but I was referring to the fact that people seemed to think you could never be tamed. My opinion has always been that a submissive will submit because she enjoys to submit, not because she needs someone to tame her spirit or whatever. I don't know if that's true of you or not, because I don't really know you very well, or at all really. It is just my opinion. In fact, it's an opinion that has been stated in my seven types of internet submissive bit that I wrote a few months back.

As for your relationship specifically: I don't think anyone should have to be subjected to internet phonies. They give the net the reputation it already has, and I think that's a bad thing.

Thank you TG for making your statements more clear to me! Please excuse the bitchiness of my last post in which I responded to you. I really felt that you were saying I had no desire to submit, which is so very untrue! I realize we don't know each other that well, at least in that way. I truly appreciate your thoughts on my relationship specifically and promise to go read up on the types of internet submissives! :D

~ltp~