A question for "some" of the authors

[carrie]

If nc means not consensual and rp means rape, then how come I find some of the stories having the women orgasm and enjoying the rape? I'm not referring to all the authors, just the ones that go into some fantasy where rape suddenly becomes "yes, omg I'm loving this". I'm not saying that this kind of "fantasy" is wrong, but please label it as such so that those of us who want to fantasize about a realistic rape know not to waste their time. ie say) rp turned consensual! Once it's consensual it's not a rape.

Just a suggestion. : )

Carrie

[Ruby]

Carrie,

May you please qualify your suggestion?

Are you asking the authors to then check all three boxes:
NC, RP and Consensual?

Because let's face it, some fantasize about taking their victims unwillingly and then turning that victim in a partner. If any part of the story is NC, then the writer owes it to others to check that box.

Ruby

[Mad Lews]

Carrie,

May you please qualify your suggestion?

Are you asking the authors to then check all three boxes:
NC, RP and Consensual?

Because let's face it, some fantasize about taking their victims unwillingly and then turning that victim in a partner. If any part of the story is NC, then the writer owes it to others to check that box.

Ruby

I've noticed different writers have different views on what the codes stand for. I mean what consensual is can be a matter of opinion I guess. That's why lawyers are paid so well. :D

Depending on the story I could see someone ending up with lots of conflicting story codes.
I mean I've come up with a story that coded out as

M/f M+/f F/f m-self f-self bestiality exhibition modification spanking voyeurism BDSM bondage real ScFi spoof romantic consensual reluctant humiliation torture Serious

The " real, ScFi, spoof and serious are all true but I suppose they might seem to conflict.
If the stories complex enough I bet you could cover quite a few more story codes but would it really be that helpful for the potential reader?

I sometimes wonder if it might be better to have an independent entity ( say a Jinn or other Genie type) code out the stories so their was some consistency.

Then again that seems like a lot of work for a free and easy site.

My personal pet peeve is Fantasy stories that are labeled Scfi but that's the only code available

Kilgore
No I mean
Mad Lews

[BaldJean]

If nc means not consensual and rp means rape, then how come I find some of the stories having the women orgasm and enjoying the rape? I'm not referring to all the authors, just the ones that go into some fantasy where rape suddenly becomes "yes, omg I'm loving this". I'm not saying that this kind of "fantasy" is wrong, but please label it as such so that those of us who want to fantasize about a realistic rape know not to waste their time. ie say) rp turned consensual! Once it's consensual it's not a rape.

Just a suggestion. : )

Carrie

Bravo Carrie! You take the words right out of my mouth. "Rape" is by definition non-consensual, and any women who claim to have "rape fantasies" just have fantasies of violent sex, but not of rape. It is very important to distinguish between these two. One cannot want to be raped by the mere definition of the word "rape"; sorry folks, but that's the English language for you. Perhaps anyone who has fantasies about "consensual rape" should consult a dictionary first.

[pop_54]

This is the thing about rape fiction versus rape fact... in rape fiction the author often feels the need to add the crap about an orgasm during rape or real foced sex for sheer effect, and maybe to try to excuse the bloke committing the rape for his vile actions by making it seem she's liking it after all... In rape fact I don't believe very many women experience an orgasm, and if they did, it wouldn't be any kind of rape.

nc or non consent, is just a techie name for rape a rape fiction story board as a category ie 'the non-consent' section... There is no real life term under that banner nc, it's either forced sex or rape... and both mean the same thing... you get done for 'rape' when you're caught, not forced sex, or non-consent sex.

[Ranai]

With regard to the writer’s motivation, I believe you hit the nail on the head, pop 54. I call this the ‘NC with inbuilt denial’ genre.

Yes, orgasms seem a very implausible reaction to rape. However, carrie’s post confuses a phyiscal reaction (orgasm) with an expression of will (consent). If a rape victim experienced an orgasm, it wouldn’t be any kind of rape? Nope. I disagree. If it occurs, an orgasm can’t magically transform rape into non-rape. An orgasm is a physical reaction to sexual triggers, not an expression of will. If in a story a woman or a man is brought to orgasm without having consented to the sexual activity, the level of consent stays exactly the same.

What carrie is really asking for are codes for plausibilty or implausibility. Not really feasible I think. Which writer would want to label their story ‘NC with implausible reaction’ or ‘NC with inbuilt denial’ ?

As Ruby points out, some writers fantasise about taking their victims unwillingly and then turning that victim into a partner. I call this, especially if the victim in retrospect is oh-so-grateful for having been raped and tortured into giving up resistance, a variety of the ‘wishful thinking fiction’ genre. Writers are perfectly free to produce wishful thinking fiction, just as they are free to write about three-headed dragons and space travel through black holes. Wishful thinking fiction is entertainment, even though this particular entertainment includes descriptions of crimes and highly implausible results of those crimes. As Bald Jean points out, the ‘NC with inbuilt denial’ genre does perpetuate myths. Whether a writer decides to perpetuate myths, or decides to aim for plausibility – that’s another question. Any opinions?

In the list of story codes (http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/code_explain.php) , ‘nc’ is ‘Non-consensual Sexual Activity’. I think that’s clear enough. It is for the author to decide whether his or her character consents or not in a situation the author invented. If they dreamed up the characters and the entire plot, surely they are able to determine its level of consent code(s). But, as for lots of other reasons it is great to have someone who is willing to give editing and proofreading help, by all means, why not ask for a second opinion on the story codes too.

[Ranai]

On this theme, please see also
"Realistic" Rape Fantasy (http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3200)

[Enclosed Lady]

Question, what about "sci-fi" code? I never saw that around here.

Once, someone complained about one of mine stories, because it was consensual, and in the end turned to be serious/NC. Why not? You can create, imagine different situations, I guess some call it "artistic liberty", so the character can not enjoy at first then enjoy it...who knows?
[]'s EL

[Mad Lews]

Question, what about "sci-fi" code? I never saw that around here.

[]'s EL

My dear Enclosed Lady

I'm so glad that you asked about "sci-fi". It has always been one of my pet peeves that the Sci-Fi code is stretched to include most forms of fantasy.
before his sad demise a favorite character of mine Kilgore Pike explained it better than I ever could. to the hapless writer Hope who had mislabeled her story Sci-Fi
and I quote from

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/wholestory.php?storyid=3293

Reviewer: Kilgore Pike (Edit) Rating 5 July 4, 2005

Science fiction? You call that Science Fiction? SCIENCE FICTION IS ABOUT ROBOTS AND RAYGUNS AND ROCKETS, NOT ELVES AND ORCS AND WIZARDS. Story wasn't that bad, BUT STOP LYING ABOUT SCIENCE FICTION! ok(5/10)

Replied by Hope (Edit) (July 5, 2005)

Sorry Kilgore, the story is really fantasy not Scfi but that's not an option in the story codes so Scfi was as close as it got. * Grin*

Subject: Three Rings

To: Hope > hotslut@yahgogle.com

From: KilgorePike > Kveinagut@yahgogle.com

Date 21:31pm May 16, 2005

AS CLOSE AS IT GOT?

YOU STUPID COW!

SCIENCE FICTION IS ABOUT NOBILITY AND PURITY AND GOODNESS, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT ARE EVER TRUELY WORTH WRITING ABOUT. IT WARNS MANKIND OF THE DANGERS THEY FACE!! IT PREPARES US FOR THE DANGEROUS FUTURE WE ARE ALL FACING NOW!! I KNOW WHAT SCIENCE FICTION IS!!! I WRITE SCIENCE FICTION…The tripe you write is just a slimy excuse to take pale virginal elfin maidens, strip them naked, chain them in dank dark dungeons and allow huge sweaty green skinned monsters to abuse them in every imaginable hole while slavering packs of wolves pace in the background impatiently waiting for their turn to OH! OH GOD! SHIT!!! NO!!

Alas Kilgore is no longer with us having died to keep Hope alive but we should all remember his wisdom and perhaps petition Jinn for a Fantasy code. :dunno:

Just a thought
Mad Lews

[Enclosed Lady]

Wow that was a shoking answer lol
Anyway, I never know what to choose, a Fantasy like "tentacles" or "alien" would be sci-fi? Aliens maybe, but still ins't real stuff, that's the issue.
I guess the best thing, it's to warn readers with a huge <FANTASY> all over the sinopses and disclaimers so no one complain about it. :)
Hugs

[daddiebear50]

This is an interesting topic having just finished Robert A Heinlein's "Universe Expanded" He is a great, and well respect "Sci Fi" author. If you haven't read him find some of his work. (the last third of the above is very political so don't let that spoil the first 2/3rd, and he does give some great eduction on thing like anti-matter.)

The book, covers some of his early works, shorts submitted to "Astonding Stories", a quraterly "magazine" of short stories. I submit, and he discusses this issue, that he writes true Sci FI. It is interesting to note of the 20 or so shorts, only one or two, take place above the stratosphere. His stories are fictions about science. (an excellent work regarding nuclear power worker's psycological problems, written 4 years before Hiroshima, and one about a "demise" perdicting machine)

So, very much of "Sci fi" is miss labeled. Space Fi, Ok, but much is not Science Fiction.

In Heinlein's discussion minicing this thread was probably written in the 60s. He notes the lumping of fantasy into the Sci Fi venue, and goes on to explain that Sci Fi should be divided into several major catagories, and the host of sub catagories. It was as humorous and unlikely to happen as this tread (his point too).

As for those who are forced to submit fantasy as Sci Fi, My simpathies and Yes, we need a catagory like that. So don't feel ashamed for using it.

[Rabbit1]

I think each author sees things a little different --and the story codes are just a guide of what the author feels his story contains---now what the reader may interpet it as. And I agree with the SiFi and fantasy coments that is why there is a new Fantasy code to use ---but it is being used loosely too---as Fantasy can cover alot of ground not just about elves and woodnymphs

[Ashtree]

Have to say that one of the things that really P****** me off as reagrds stories is when a rape victim starts to enjoy it; normally at that point I just stop reading.

As Pop54 says if the victim enjoys it then it's not rape.

[Amberxiao]

As a writer, and particularly, as a writer who is extremely sadistic towards her characters (ALL of them), the thought of a forced and unwanted orgasm is much more interesting and evil to me than simply forced sex with an orgasm only on the perpetrator's part. And it seems that IS plausible, from some of the posts on the other thread.

The reason that interests me more is the stuff that would then go on in the person's head. How do they deal with the fact that their body responded in such a way as to make other people think they wanted it? That gave them a kind of dirty pleasure that they really, truly, honestly, didn't want -- that this evil bitch or bastard was able not only to affect their body and hurt them, but access their pleasure as well?

Disclaimer: I only want fictional characters to be plagued by this sort of thing and think rape in the real world is one of the most horrible things in the world, perhaps *the* most horrible thing.

Disclaimer 2: I'm turned on by a lot more in fantasy than I'd ever be in real life, and my submissive side really enjoys *being* the character I'm sadistically tormenting, though I'm aware enough to know that I'd never want that in real life.

Ah, being a writer is good for me as a switch :)