Psychological vs. Physical Domination

[Aesop]

Which is more effective? Which do you prefer? Can you have one without the other?

My answers:

These questions are tricky as many of the bdsm community (in my experience and only my experience so don't get offended-I don't mean you) don't like to use the term psychological domination. It sounds too creepy for a lot of people, I guess. We like terms like behavior modification instead of brainwashing and conditioning, but honestly there isn't much difference-if any-between them. Part of the reason we aren't accepted in the vanilla community is that the tactics even the best of us use are dangerously close to abuse and that scares the hell out of people. It's the whole gun in a cops hand vs. a gun in a crooks hand thing, only with crops instead of guns. Anyway I'm diverging here. The point is that psychological domination gets a bigger rap than physical and I think that's because it's more dangerous, more willful, and more effective. It also can stand alone as a domination technique. Physical domination is easer for the public at large to handle. Lots of pretty vanilla folks play with handcuffs and give their partner a good swat on the ass now and then. But you can spank your partner till the cows come home and that isn't domination unless you add some kind of psychological element to it.

So to sum up I think psychological domination is more effective. If I had to choose between the two I would choose psychological, but I prefer to use both at once (cause it's hot!;) ) I think that you can have psychological domination without physical, but I don't think you can reverse that.

Your thoughts?:)

P.S. If there are any long time members itching to tell me to try the search feature, please don't. I realize these topics have probably been debated before but since I read a post today that says 50-60 new members are signing up every day, I think we should be allowed to have new discussions without being told, "Sorry, we already hashed that out here, now go read it and be quiet." Even if you all don't mean it that way, and I'm sure most of you don't, it comes off that way sometimes and makes it harder for noobs like me to come out and say hi.

[Barton]

The choice is totally dependant on the submissive that is being trained.Usually a combination of the two is a better tack. Each person is different and a good dom needs to be aware of how his sub will act. This will then help to determine the intensity and depth of both types of training.

My slave is a very strong and willfull one. And a painslut to boot. I use both types for her, although the pain punishment is done with an Austrailian tail, something she does not like at all. Other subs can be delt with a harsh word or just a look, it again, depends on the person you are dealing with.

[Barton]

Damn edit timed me out!!

Anyway, the training does carry over to behavior in public (your domination) I need not say anything as the training will have my slave act as I wish. So I do not find a need to do anything to dominate her as this has already been accomplished.

[Aesop]

Thanks for the response Barton and I agree that the submissive you are training has an big impact on what you choose (or more to the point, what she/he chooses) to use. Your post is good advice for any dom, but I was more interested in what you prefer to use for your own pleasure.

For example I really enjoy controlling my submissive through words and gestures both in private and in public. I've worked on that for a long time with both psychological and physical training and I am loving the results. I think that I could have managed it with the psychological alone, but I doubt I could have with just the physical.

Good dominants know -or should know- not to use something harmful or useless to the submissive they are with, but we are also in it for our enjoyment, not just the submissive's. I'd like to know which you like best, not which is best for your submissive or submissives at large.

Just so everybody knows I'm also interested in the submissives' view on this.:)

[Barton]

Well since you asked. I prefer pain. BUt that may just be because I am a sadist at heart and my slave is a masochist. The mental aspect is fun as well but inflicting pain is what gets me going.

[Aesop]

Thanks. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for.:)

[submissivewife]

I prefer the phychological aspects rather than physical. My Master leans towards pain but my Sir leans more towards the phychological part. Both work with me. I am a painslut so Sir prefers using the phychological domination rather than pain.

I do think that both combined helps as well. Sometimes, adding the pain with the phychological can prove the point even more.

With me can I have one without the other?

Not sure how to answer that. Both work well with me.

Which is more effective?
I think the phychological domination is more effective, that is with me.

[Katmandu]

I absolutely prefer the psychological. After all, I am 'practically perfect in every way', and only a Dom good enough for me can outwit me, whereas any gorilla can out-manhandle me.

[Aesop]

I absolutely prefer the psychological. After all, I am 'practically perfect in every way', and only a Dom good enough for me can outwit me, whereas any gorilla can out-manhandle me.

:D I like that. Keep them coming folks.

[velvet_nectarine]

I feel that the physical side of domination supports the psychological aspect of it. I had an essentially vanilla boyfriend (seems like such a foreign word in here - "boyfriend") who could spank me until, as someone aptly wrote above, the cows come home, but it didn't even begin to touch my need for dominance, it just temporarily satisfied my want for pain.
I need someone who can handle me psychologically and intellectually, someone who is at least as intelligent as i am if not moreso, otherwise it's easy for me to manipulate the situation, which is the last thing i want to do, but when it's so tempting and so easy to do so, it's hard for me not to. Someone else wrote that most guys could manhandle them physically, but not mentally. That's me.
In addition to that, i am extremely intuitive. To make children be quiet in a class, some teachers will call them out verbally. With me, just a look not only made me quiet down instantly, it also made me feel badly for a while afterwards for being a distraction and causing my teacher to need to tell me i'd done something wrong. I can sense when i've said or done something that displeases the people i'm around. I learned when i was very young to watch people's emotions. Some of my family members were unpredictable emotionally, so i watched anger, disappointment, and disapproval especially and learned to sense what i should and shouldn't say or do.
To conclude all of this, i enjoy physical domination, but it's an assistant to psychological domination. I have to be dominated psychologically, otherwise i can't call it domination.

[Aesop]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. That does seem to be a common complaint of submissive women. Their guys can beat the shit out of them, but can't keep up in the brain department. I don't know how many times I've heard submissive women say that they ended up controlling the scene through subtle -and sometimes not-so-subtle- means. Why is that do you think? Are men just less intelligent than women? Or maybe we're afraid of hurting the woman so we are hesitant and wait for her lead? It's definately a gender thing because I have never heard of female dominants having this problem. Their guys never know what's coming and they love it. So what is it? Anybody know?:confused:

[submissivewife]

Are men just less intelligent than women?

You already answered your question.

[Aesop]

24 minutes? It took that long for the male bashing to commence? The women are slow 'round here.:p

[submissivewife]

LOL Hey you said it not me!!!!

[Nikita]

24 minutes? It took that long for the male bashing to commence? The women are slow 'round here.:p

Some women think before they respond. As for myself, I don't know how hard I want to come down on you...;ha

Nikita

[Blue_Monday]

Velvet_nectarine, I have a good ol' fashion "boyfriend," too. He gets the job done, by any name. :-D

Almost any guy could out-muscle me, and I have met plenty of guys who wanted to push me around. Some even claimed to want to dominate me, but half an ounce of feminine charm, and they were mine. I think it's natural for a person (I can really only speak of women, but it might be gender-neutral) to try to gain the upper hand in a relationship, and a good Dom needs to resist that.

I admire guys who are in touch with their natural dominance (or submission) (I think a lot of people are either dominant or submissive but they don't realize it, and they just end up being manipulative)....

Anyway, my current BF and I have a great balance, whether we're in a scene or not. He can totally turn me to pudding with the right look--I can be doing anything, and all he has to do is look at me and say, "Suck my dick," and I do it without a contrary thought. Interestingly, I can do the exact same thing to him.

Maybe that's not D/s, it's just love. :-)

All that said, I really enjoy the physical dimension of BDSM. Whether he's holding me down or otherwise exerting natural strength, or has me tied up under a dripping candle, it's an intense expression of the psychological dynamics.

[mali]

Wow, some really interesting thoughts there....... and Aesop; i'm only just resisting the urge to reply to the 'Are men just less intelligent than women?' question :D


Well, one thing is that in a female/female relationship we dont have the problem that one partner can outsmart the other :p
Also, though we are both female i'd have a damn hard time trying to over-power my Mistress, she's much, much stronger than me so the physical dominance does work too.
I think that for me, it's physcological, the look given by a Dom/Domme when you've disappointed them is far worse than any physical punishment for me. The knowledge that i've done wrong is what will make me remember and rectify my mistake.

[Aesop]

Some women think before they respond. As for myself, I don't know how hard I want to come down on you...;ha

Nikita

Lol . . .I'm still waiting . . .:gl


Wow, some really interesting thoughts there....... and Aesop; i'm only just resisting the urge to reply to the 'Are men just less intelligent than women?' question :D

Why resist? I put it out there knowing I'd get slammed lol. Although I do have to wonder if any of the guys here are reading this stuff. Looks like I'm the lone ranger in this thread. Ah well, so be it.:D

[Nikita]

Lol . . .I'm still waiting . . .

Why resist? I put it out there knowing I'd get slammed lol. Although I do have to wonder if any of the guys here are reading this stuff. Looks like I'm the lone ranger in this thread. Ah well, so be it.:D

Sure sounds like a bratty sub to me. :rolleyes: Maybe that's why the Doms aren't responding.

I got a stiff hairbrush with your name on it little boy.

Nikita

[Aesop]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

First time in my life I've ever been called a bratty sub. I'd keep a good grip on that hairbrush Nikita-you wouldn't want me to get a hold of it.:pd :D

[submissivewife]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

First time in my life I've ever been called a bratty sub. I'd keep a good grip on that hairbrush Nikita-you wouldn't want me to get a hold of it.:pd :D

If you get the brush from Nikita let me know......;) :pd

[Nikita]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha . . .
First time in my life I've ever been called a bratty sub. I'd keep a good grip on that hairbrush Nikita-you wouldn't want me to get a hold of it.:pd :D

Stand in line...

Nik

PS: subwife...bring your own brush to the party, the one I have may get messy.

[submissivewife]

Stand in line...

Nik

PS: subwife...bring your own brush to the party, the one I have may get messy.

I brought mine with me this time!:D

[Aesop]

How flattering to get all this attention!:D

Although I think I'll arm myself just in case. . .;whip

[Rosanna]

it's an interesting discussion, domination psychological and physical

as it has already been pointed out, in consensual BDSM there can't really be any physical submission without the mental submission first

before you can snap on the cuffs, you first need the willingness to let you put on those cuffs
- at least I suppose that most people prefer not to have to run after and try to catch and overpower their mate every single time they want to do some bondage :D -

anyway in practical terms for me it depends on the mood
sometimes it's great to watch the pull against the rope
sometimes it's great to just say 'Stay like this!!' :)

[Tojo]

My first online thing was with a woman who had a bf that used to Dom her. She said he was good with her body, but liked the way I 'dominated her mind'

Living my life online I don't get much choice, but it'll be interesting to do it in r/l.

I'm actually very much into the 'mind games' sort of thing though- I'd never want to use physical force.


Tojo

[Silke]

I also tend more to the psychological side of the coin, it's one of the aspects that drew me to D/s in the first place. Then again, I don't have any experience with the physical dimension so far since all my limited experience has been long distance. Who knows how things would change once I meet a r/l dom?

I agree with Aesop, though...physical domination alone is very limited and to me has no appeal without the psychological dynamic. The other way around does work, that much I know, lol.

Which one do I prefer? I can imagine continuing without physical D/s, the pleasure I gain from the mere psychological side is intense and something I don't want to miss in my life again. My ultimate dream would be to have both aspects compliment each other at some stage, though.

Something else that shot through my mind just now...if physical domination occurs in a D/s or M/s context, can it ever exist without psychological consequences and means? And does physical domination lead to psychological domination automatically when done right? If it doesn't...is pure physical domination abuse in that context?

[Ozme52]

On your knees and lower your shoulders and head to the floor.

Grab you ankles. Don't let go no matter what, until I "release" you.

If you do, I'll leave.

Is it physical or psychological?

[cariad]

On your knees and lower your shoulders and head to the floor.

Grab you ankles. Don't let go no matter what, until I "release" you.

If you do, I'll leave.

Is it physical or psychological?

Psychological, but said in that manner I would perceive it as bullying. The same words said with quiet confidence would melt my knees so that I had no choice but to sink to them.

cariad

[_ID_]

I find the thread very interesting, and I am glad it came up recently. I will add my own thoughts.

Psychological vs physical: I think you can have physical without psychological, however if you do, your most likely forcing the person your dominating, and therefore not really dominating, just making them do your will from mere force. Who is the more intelligent species? Well between my wife and me, it's definitely her. Her IQ is well above mine, her education level is well above mine. Her ability to manipulate is well above mine. That said, she prefers I control things, she prefers that I tell her what to do, how to do it. She prefers that I control the scene. Although I must say, when she becomes willfully disobedient it is very difficult for me to correct her. Partly because she is so willful, and partly because she is so incredibly smart.

If our roles were not so well defined between the two of us, I am quite sure the roles we hold now could be easily reversed. I am so deeply infatuated and held by her inner and outer beauty that I sometimes feel captive in her presence. Yet at the same time I have this incredible need to have her kneel before me, to spank her, to whip her, to tie her up, and have very physical intimacy.

Ahhh love.

V/R
ID

[Ozme52]

Psychological, but said in that manner I would perceive it as bullying. The same words said with quiet confidence would melt my knees so that I had no choice but to sink to them.

cariad

Oh have no doubt cari, it was said in a soft whisper, breath tickling the nape of your neck.

[cariad]

Oh have no doubt cari, it was said in a soft whisper, breath tickling the nape of your neck.


gulps........

[Nikita]

On your knees and lower your shoulders and head to the floor.

Grab you ankles. Don't let go no matter what, until I "release" you.

If you do, I'll leave.

Is it physical or psychological?

The man has a way with words, doesn't he Cariad? :cool:

[cariad]

The man has a way with words, doesn't he Cariad? :cool:


Certainly does - going around saying things like that in here - he could have half the forum on their knees.

[maddie]

Intriguting discussion. Because I tend to prefer bondage and we don't get very heavily into D/s, I don't have much experience to draw from, but I do have one thought:

I think you can do psychological without physical, but I think it's harder to do physical without psychological. It seems to me that it would be hard to physically dominate someone without capturing their mind along the way. But you can mess with somebody's mind without ever laying a finger on the person.

[Tojo]

But you can mess with somebody's mind without ever laying a finger on the person.

Yes that would certainly appear to be the case maddie...:)


Tojo

[Ozme52]

Certainly does - going around saying things like that in here - he could have half the forum on their knees.


Promises, promises.




The man has a way with words, doesn't he Cariad?



Thanks nikita

[Nikita]

I think you can do psychological without physical, but I think it's harder to do physical without psychological. It seems to me that it would be hard to physically dominate someone without capturing their mind along the way. But you can mess with somebody's mind without ever laying a finger on the person.

Couldn't have said it better, Maddie. In order to enjoy the experience and thrive with the dom, there has to be respect and strong psychological control on the dom's part in order for you to listen and obey. It is at that point that it makes sense to hand over your power.

[Tojo]

Oh nicely put nikita.


Tojo

[Warbaby1943]

I think you can do psychological without physical, but I think it's harder to do physical without psychological. It seems to me that it would be hard to physically dominate someone without capturing their mind along the way. But you can mess with somebody's mind without ever laying a finger on the person.
maddie,

I think this is so true. As a matter of fact I just finished discussing this very subject with someone not more than 5 minutes ago. I didn't state it quite as elegantly as you though.:)

[fghtz]

If we are talking about love (or maybe just personal feelings - we don't always really love our sex partners) mind is always a determining factor.

When talking about pure domination for example like in a prison or rape - there can be physical only domination.

But whenever we talk about SM there _always_ comes the mind into play.

It starts with the agreement of both partners who is in charge. This is something both partners need to agree on - and that's where all the psychology stuff starts.

You can limit it if you are more into the physical part. But even a normal spanking is a mind game. The submissive willingly (more or less) accepts to be spanked. All the struggling and the begging to stop is just more of that mind game.

Pure domination without an psychological aspect won't be fun. Because it is nothing personal. Ok, there may be people who like just "unpersonal sex" (and our role playing games, aren't really any different from "vanilla sex", except how we do it), but these people are very very rare.



I am so deeply infatuated and held by her inner and outer beauty that I sometimes feel captive in her presence. Yet at the same time I have this incredible need to have her kneel before me, to spank her, to whip her, to tie her up, and have very physical intimacy.

That is what love is about. You admire that person, you would do anything for him/her and still you dominate him/her.

That's one of the greatest mind games in bdsm I guess...

[submissivewife]

That is what love is about. You admire that person, you would do anything for him/her and still you dominate him/her.

That's one of the greatest mind games in bdsm I guess...

Very well put

[Scorpio'sWill2Power]

In order to enjoy the experience and thrive with the dom, there has to be respect and strong psychological control on the dom's part in order for you to listen and obey.

This statement by Nikita is spoken with both knowledge and truth
and that makes it all the more special.

Within the mind is power on all levels.

Countries have fought wars on merely the words and mind set of
an individual or individuals.

Religions are formed and doctrines established.

In the realm of D/s it can either make or break a relationship.

The physical body is in my view only the shell that holds
the truest of treasures which lays within the mind and heart.

Why have the body if you don't have the mind to go along with it?

For myself I prefer to "be in your head", that minute spark of
energy that races along the synapse and triggers in you a
response.

Speaking with somone and never having to say a single word
at times simply because you are "in there".

I would lean slightly toward the psychological.

To fully have the physical and for both to enjoy the benefits of
sharing there is an overwhelming need to have this symbiotic
mix among minds.

[Tojo]

Well put fghtz- & welcome. :wave:

Tojo

[Nikita]

For myself I prefer to "be in your head", that minute spark of
energy that races along the synapse and triggers in you a
response.

Speaking with somone and never having to say a single word
at times simply because you are "in there".


Your quote above summarizes the things that make the heart race in a d/s and is a prerequisite to a satisfying relationship.

Welcome fghtz. I'm with subwife on your last two sentences.


Thank you Tojo, Scorpio. :11_2_102: I think a blush from me is in order here.

[vistana]

I definitely find it takes both to make a good scene.

I've found that the best combination for me is starting with the psychological, I'm a sucker for words in general, a few growled sentences and I can be totally gone. But in order for me to really his subspace and stay there I need that to be followed up with the physical.
Best scene I ever had started with a two hour drive in which he just talked to me, then followed by a harsh spanking. I had melted completely by the time we stopped driving and didn't really come out of it until the next day.


If I had to pick I'd choose psychological, but I really can't imagine them actually being completely separate entities. They blend into each other and overlap.

And as usual there have been many people saying similar things but far more articulately already in this thread, so I'll just say a general, 'Yeah, what they said!'

[Hime]

Definitely psychological. I'm in a long-distance relationship (although this is the last night of that -- we're moving in together tomorrow!), and some of the kinkiest moments between us have been over the phone. He likes to talk dirty to me when he knows I'm in public -- or worse, with my parents. Somehow, he always knows how to make me very very quiet...

Too much reliance on physical force makes someone seem like they *aren't* really in control, IMHO -- especially when they seem really angry, it's like their emotions are in control of them. To me, that is not as much fun. I like to feel like my s/o is in control and I don't have to worry about anything.